There was no ugly personal attack, just social criticism of a kind that I think was quite apt.
Who thinks $5K speaker cable really better than generic 14AWG cable?
I recently ordered high end speaker, power amp, and preamp to be installed in couple more weeks. So the next search are interconnect and speaker cable. After challenging the dealer and 3 of my so called audiophile friends, I think the only reason I would buy expensive cable is for its appearance to match with the high end gears but not for sound performance. I personally found out that $5K cable vs $10 cable are no difference, at least not to our ears. Prior to this, I was totally believe that cable makes a difference but not after this and reading few articles online.
Here is how I found out.
After the purchase of my system, I went to another dealer to ask for cable opinion (because the original dealer doesn't carry the brand I want) and once I told him my gears, he suggested me the high end expensive cable ranging from $5 - 10K pair, depending on length. He also suggested the minimum length must be 8-12ft. If longer than 12ft, I should upgrade to even more expensive series. So I challenged him that if he can show me the difference, I would purchase all 7 AQ Redwood cables from him.
It's a blind test and I would connect 3 different cables - 1 is the Audioquest Redwood, 1 is Cardas Audio Clear, and 1 my own generic 14AWG about 7ft. Same gears, same source, same song..... he started saying the first cable sound much better, wide, deep, bla...bla...bla......and second is decently good...bla...bla...bla.. and the last one sounded crappy and bla...bla...bla... BUT THE REALITY, I NEVER CHANGED THE CABLE, its the same 14AWG cable. I didn't disclosed and move on to second test. I told him I connected audioquest redwood but actually 14AWG and he started to praise the sound quality and next one I am connected the 14awg but actually is Redwood and he started to give negative comment. WOW!!!! Just blew me right off.
I did the same test with 3 of my audiophile friends and they all have difference inputs but no one really got it right. Especially the part where I use same generic 14awg cable and they all start to give different feedback!!!
SO WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK? OR I AM THE LAST PERSON TO FIND OUT THAT EXPENSIVE CABLE JUST A RIP OFF?
Here is how I found out.
After the purchase of my system, I went to another dealer to ask for cable opinion (because the original dealer doesn't carry the brand I want) and once I told him my gears, he suggested me the high end expensive cable ranging from $5 - 10K pair, depending on length. He also suggested the minimum length must be 8-12ft. If longer than 12ft, I should upgrade to even more expensive series. So I challenged him that if he can show me the difference, I would purchase all 7 AQ Redwood cables from him.
It's a blind test and I would connect 3 different cables - 1 is the Audioquest Redwood, 1 is Cardas Audio Clear, and 1 my own generic 14AWG about 7ft. Same gears, same source, same song..... he started saying the first cable sound much better, wide, deep, bla...bla...bla......and second is decently good...bla...bla...bla.. and the last one sounded crappy and bla...bla...bla... BUT THE REALITY, I NEVER CHANGED THE CABLE, its the same 14AWG cable. I didn't disclosed and move on to second test. I told him I connected audioquest redwood but actually 14AWG and he started to praise the sound quality and next one I am connected the 14awg but actually is Redwood and he started to give negative comment. WOW!!!! Just blew me right off.
I did the same test with 3 of my audiophile friends and they all have difference inputs but no one really got it right. Especially the part where I use same generic 14awg cable and they all start to give different feedback!!!
SO WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK? OR I AM THE LAST PERSON TO FIND OUT THAT EXPENSIVE CABLE JUST A RIP OFF?
1,019 responses Add your response
dalebeshansky-good point using well regarded artists in the entertainment industry. During the past 50+ years every major TV station, radio station and recording company in every major city have all purchased their speaker cables and interconnects from local broadcasting supply houses. Back in the early 60's when radio stations were recording and broadcasting at live events, they were using long runs of shielded speaker cables and interconnects. These type of cables were only used by the broadcasting industry at the time and were not used or available in the stereo retail stores since high end was still in its infancy. You could get cheap RCA interconnects at the time for your Fisher or Harman Kardon receiver. Bruce Brisson of MIT/Monster Cable was directly influenced by that industry which led him to start Monster Cable with his designs in 1981. Here in Seattle all the radio, TV stations and recording studios get their cable and wire from Radar electronics who have been around for 60+ years. These broadcasting supply houses in your home towns are great places to get high quality speaker and interconnect cable at any length you want and they have a wide variety of connector's and will terminate them for you. |
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BJC cables meet my criteria of a cable that does not have to be better than this, and if it is, I sincerely doubt i will see or hear a difference." Now, don't try to experiment or anything, you already know the outcome. Bet if you substituted solid silver cables for your BJC, you would hear a difference. |
Some things are better than others, plain and simple. It gets down to degrees and how significant the difference really is. Most of us know a ’quality’ cable from junk, or a lamp cord. I don’t put a lamp cord in the junk category, because it works just fine and does not rely on mediocre workmanship along with cosmetics so it LOOKS like it should be better. It is an HONEST cable even if used for hifi. Some decades ago, there were a lot of junk cables, poor workmanship, etc. Monster was one of the early ones that actually proved a well made cable is better. That is long before they got too big for their britches, kept the same basic cables but found they could keep jacking up the price as long as they used gold plating and cool looking sheathing. Well, the formula worked for them, and still does to a smaller extent today. BJC cables meet my criteria of a cable that does not have to be better than this, and if it is, I sincerely doubt i will see or hear a difference. But that’s me. I’ve said before, when esoteric cable companies get a hold of well regarded artists, musicians, composers, recording engineers, etc. to promote their cable based on what the professionals claim to experience, I will start believing there is more to it than that. |
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dill " Sadly this is what HI FI has devolved into over the past 40 years!"Measurementalists don't need to listen. Their faith in what they believe is science makes it usually unnecessary. When they do listen, they often genuinely hear no difference at all - very likely the result of the same "confirmation bias" they so quickly accuse others of suffering. |
Checked out the Sonobond welder online. Reading a number of reviews, it appears their Ultrasonic welder is the best in the U.S.. The machine uses a patented cold weld technology. It wouldn't surprise me at all that MIT, Kimber and all the top high end cable companies are using the Sonobond Ultrasonic cold welder. There's a video on Youtube showing how the welder works. |
@ jperry: your buying something that may be "beyond my reach" is evidence that you have more resources than I do. It has nothing to do with whether the purchase is a stupid waste of money or not. I priced out some Nordost Odin cables for my stereo system at one point and I don't think it included power cords. The price was $137,000.00. That's well "beyond my reach." Thank goodness. I'd hate to have that purchase on my permanent record when I reached the Pearly Gates. |
There are three types of bonding methods attaching a connector to a speaker cable, solder, crimp and weld. The best method is welding which gives you the greatest pull strength of the signal to the speaker. The most expensive and most exotic speaker cables on the market all use welded connectors which is why they "sound so good". Theres just a handful of budget cable companies that weld their connector's. Blue Jeans Cable in Seattle welds their speaker cable to their connector's using the Sonobond Ultrasonic Welder made in Pennsylvania. If you take their best 10 awg cable and put them up against cables that are soldered or crimped in the $2K price range, the Blue Jeans will blow them out the window. And they only cost $80.00 for an 8 ft. pair. Who drives the most exotic and most expensive car's at CES? The cable companies. |
@jperry I can only agree, all my interconnect and speaker cables are various levels of Nordost which I have been upgrading through their line as I can afford to do so. Each change has brought about a little more air and detail and controlled the bottom end further. Zero fatigue. When I am home I regularly listen 5 to 6 hours at a time. But that’s my system in my room with my ears....ymmv |
+1 Jmcgrogan2 and hifiman5! John you are spot on with auditioning. I compare your analogy to the TV industry. There is a store video setting that you could never live with on a long term basis but on first view it looks incredible. I went down the Nordost trail also with Valhalla 2 power cables. Did not work out for me but thats just me in my system. |
I counsel caution. Usually when someone reacts so strongly so quickly to a very new system change, the test of time will usually provide perspective. Put simply...when something jumps out at you initially, be cautious.+1 Good advice also when reading posts from folks who often "beat the drum" loudly for the tweak, cable, or doo-dad du jour. The result can be a frenzy of posts and people who just have to have the "whatever it is." It is sometimes interesting to go back and read about how long "the last thing" was a hot item before "the next thing" came along. |
^^^ +1 hifiman5! I was smitten with Nordost twice, and went down that path twice. What I learned was that Nordost makes great cables to demo your gear with, and they do sound impressive. However, I always found my listening sessions growing shorter and shorter due to listening fatigue. Too much information can burn out the brain. Now I avoid Nordost, and can listen for long periods of time again. If I had to choose one cable line to demo a system, it would be Nordost, but I found out that I could not live with them for long periods of time. YMMV. |
@freediver I counsel caution. Usually when someone reacts so strongly so quickly to a very new system change, the test of time will usually provide perspective. Put simply...when something jumps out at you initially, be cautious. Give yourself time with the Nordost cables before making a purchase. Beware of the shiny ball!🤗 |
I've never been a big believer and only bought Acoustic Zen cables because I like the idea of the extremely pure solid core copper.. That was until about an hour ago when a friend let me borrow a 9'pair of Nordost Red Dawn Rev.II...Now my system may not be big dollar stuff but it is highly resolving,has wonderfully natural tonal quality and can truly disappear...Holy mother Mary everything went from good to oh my good is this the same system..The only way I can describe it is everything sounds more relaxed yet when called for has an extra bite,like you can now see Billy Idols sneer as well as hear it in his voice...Soundstage has widened and deepened and imaging is levels sharper with actual air between instruments if it's in the recording...Im a convert now.Cables can and do make a difference...Now I gotta figure out how to afford $750.00 cables... |
Same here. I used to use the blue jeans interconnects but really did find that better interconnects made a difference when it comes to RCA and XLR, so I no longer use them. I still like the cost-effectiveness of the company, but could hear the difference. Their speaker cables work for me though. I tried some more expensive speaker cables and didn’t like them. The blue jeans speaker cables are right for my system as well. |
@mward - have you heard the musician who goes by your username? MWard? Lovely stuff! +1 to your post, too. I only get into these stupid debates when someone comes in and categorically denies that cables can't possibly make any difference and their view is absolute truth. Though, in retrospect, those are probably the least fruitful people to argue with.. but my, this wall is fun to bang my head against. |
The truth of the debate is hinted at by people who say cables sound different from one system to the next, from one room to the next. That no two setups are the same, thus the differing opinions. But the underlying fundamental truth is that cables, components, and even recordings will never sound the same to two different people because everyone has different hearing, different ears. Anyone who has had a hearing check knows that hearing differs/degrades at different frequencies so no two individuals will hear sound the same way. Some have less accuity at high frequemcies, some have less in other specific ranges. Some people don’t even have the same hearing in both ears when measured by an audiologist. It is no wonder some people hate silver and some love it, and others favor copper. It’s also no wonder some people can't hear any difference. If you love your system or your cables, it’s because they are a match for YOUR ears. Be glad you found that synergy because it’s the only one that matters. |
@hifiman5 "It is unfortunately human nature for "the Have-nots to covet what the Haves have" Let them eat cake, and may they long continue to use their wretched, pathetic zip cord. Ultimately, those who are the fittest survivors will quickly and decisively deal with those pesky, bothersome, covetous "Have-nots." |
