Cerwin Vegas with Crown Amps--so bad totally unlistenable .
Almost as bad but never would buy.
Latest B+W 800 series-- like razors in the ears.
Von Schweikerts-- just dull.
Magicos- sounds like designed by and for a computer-hear them with Halcro Amps and rush for Root Canal for relief
Any ESL-yes sadly been there many times-bit of heaven and hell they all fail at some time--got sick of saying a Prayer every time I turned them on. The great pity as they can perform superbly --when running
I agree with those who think the B&Ws are too bright. I've owned one pair and heard others, and I just can't listen to them very long. Other's love them, so to each his own. I find I have issues with a lot of metal dome tweeters. I prefer, and recommend, soft dome tweeters for less fatigue.
I feel the same way about B&W speakers as
@millercarbon
feels about Wilson.That is, over rated, over priced & under perform. I also had an aquaintance who had an outstanding Wilson set up .... at least on paper. $25G dollar Wilsons, Bryston 4B-SST amp, Sim Moon deck, & Nordost wire. To save space lets just say after blowing all that doe his system sounded .... dry. Price maybe an indicator where to start, but it's not the "be all", "end all" in the final analysis. As for using YouTube as a listening reference for any piece of Hi-Fi ..... that's just blayton ignorence. Get down to a dealer and listen - PERIOD.
I am amazed at how many people actually bought and paid for so many speakers they didn’t like, some posters had that experience with several. My first thought was they didn’t do their homework or didn’t do a proper job of auditioning or both. The expectation that a speaker will perform in one’s own room (with his own electronics) in the same way as in a dealer’s showroom is recipe for disappointment. I honestly think one can make almost any speaker (that one liked the basic signature of) work well in his room with proper set up, system matching and acoustic treatments. If I was disappointed in the performance of several reputable speakers in my room, I might well blame the room instead of the speakers.
I honestly think one can make almost any speaker work well in his room with proper set up, system matching and acoustic treatments. If I was disappointed in the performance of several reputable speakers in my room, I might well blame the room instead of the speakers.
I am glad to be not the only one with this opinion....
Sad to see Roy Johnson trashed on this thread as I had and loved both pairs of speaker from him, the models of which I now forget. A couple of our fellow posters all muck up each and every thread on this forum. Of the 20 or so speakers I have had over the past 45 years, I enjoyed them all very much. Except the KEF LS50's, which were awful sounding in the month I had them and were hard to drive with my Plinius 175 wpc SS amp. Go figure. Honestly, if I hit the Lotto and moved to a home with a large living room, I'd have a pair of KEF Blades in a heartbeat. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A compendium of my speakers:
List of my speakers from 1973 to 2021:
Rectilinear III Highboys (outstanding speakers!)
AR bookshelves
JBL L100 (like the cause of my hearing loss these days)
Electro-Voice Sentry 100's
Spica TC 40's and TC 50's (unparalleled imaging, but the drivers were easily overdriven to failure)
JSE Infinite Slope 3's (early Jeff Joseph's creations)
Goetz MS3 Towers (I had them for 20 years, made by a boutique designer in Atlanta)
KEF LS50 (My least-liked speakers among the bunch, shrill sonically and hard to drive)
Von Schweikert V22
Usher BE-718
Totem Hawks (huge LF response)
SVS Black Towers
Klipsch Cornwalls (modded to Cornscala's)
Tyler Acoustic's Linbrooks (fantastic speakers, but they completely overloaded my smallish room)
Joseph Audio RM25XL ( should have never sold these)
DynacoA10, A 25, A35 (when recapped, a pure vintage sound with a great midrange)
KLHModel 5, 6, 21 and 28? (the Model 5 speakers are truly legendary when recapped)
Blumenstein Orca's
Green Mountain Audio Rio and Eos HX
GR Research LGK
ELAC Debut B6
Dali Zensor 1 and 3's (both outstanding monitors)
Linkwitz Lxmini's (if you have never heard them, you ought to. However with the need of a 4-channel amp, they rendered my cadre of 2-channel amps unusable)
Spatial Audio M4 Triode Masters (tremendous speakers, not at all fussy about placement)
Revel M22
Gallo Strada’s (wonderful little orbs of musicality in my bedroom system)
I have to get in the not liking Wilson speakers. I have heard a variety of them, including the $300k big daddies in their current lineup, in several rooms with which I am very familiar. I agree they are accurate, dynamic, and all of the other good words attached, but they just don’t float my boat for more than a few songs. I hear more music through my current speakers. However, I know folks who love their Wilson speakers. I don’t disrespect their choice and will listen with them any day. 🙂
I love that two B&W haters point out that they sound terrible, at least with solid state, specifically Rotel, but good with Pass amps. Yes, it is true B&W's will reproduce the horrible stuff in your electronics that other speakers mask, either with blandness or too much energy directed elsewhere. They reproduce and amplify what ever they are fed, and a lot of electronics are truly horrible. That is why so many speakers either sound bland or overly dynamic in certain frequencies, to hide the horrible electronics in most electronics. I recently had an two extensive listens to current 804's, with current Rotel CD and electronics. At first, I thought my ears were defective.. That is why I returned. If your electroinoc make B&W's harsh, too bright, etc, no matter how much you want to love your particular electronics, it is not the speakers. The simple fact that they sound good with Nelson Pass electronics should have alerted one writer. he might have sounded great if the source were better. I really believe that people dislike B&W's because of the price, and that is totally fair. I have owned one set for 40 years. These replaced some older ones. My "New" ones are twenty now. I also have several sets that were in various rooms of my old houses, before I downsized to one little one. My Maggies and Acoustats came and went while I had these, although the Acoustats did stay for 25years. I have never bought new B&W's, but love people who spend a fortune on them, and sell them for a big loss, to people like me.
German Physiks, omni-directional speakers. Can't remember the model, but they retailed for about $20k at the time. An absolute snore of a sound, everywhere and nowhere. The lower bass was acceptable, but that was it.
Estelon speakers. Tall, floor standing and very expensive speakers with twin side-firing woofers at the bottom - can't remember the model. Auditioned via Vitus mono amps and a slew of other über-priced gear. Dull, lifeless, flat, and at that price?
@whitestix , an interesting post. The original LS50 has been one of the great success stories of the past decade.
It will also be interesting to see which well known brands do not make an eventual appearance here. [Unless I've missed it, Tekton and Ohm Walsh's seem to have escaped so far, as have designs which feature ribbon tweeters?].
Maybe that was the OPs intention to draw up a domestic shortlist? He's making a list, he's checking it twice.
Anyway I think it's fair to assume that most of us were prepared to experiment with placing and ancillaries before condemning any particular speaker and moving on.
Why wouldn't we, considering the usual financial hit that normally comes with that?
I've owned 3 different Tannoy models and all have been good at their price points, the MX3, the R3 and the Berkeley's.
The only one I would have trouble living with today would be the budget floorstanding MX3s with their obvious treble sting (comparitively speaking + they weren't a horror show - very few are).
In hindsight maybe it wasn't that their treble was especially more harsh than the other two. Maybe it was the fact that they were doing quite a lot less elsewhere that drew more attention to what the soft dome tweeter was doing.
Ideally we audiophiles want a speaker that does a lot of things really well as otherwise we're likely to become increasingly frustrated with what we perceive is not being done well.
This brings the danger of upgrading to something that does this one particular thing better - only for us to later realise it also does quite a few things worse!
I suspect more than a few of us have been on this particular roundabout to find we end up back close to where we began.
Especially if we were fortunate enough to begin our initial audio journey with a mid or high performance design.
Focal 1038Be I spent about a month or so and they never felt relaxed enough. My former speakers of 15 years have an aluminum tweeter and now I have the Wilson Sophia 1 with titanium. I suppose the beryllium isn't for me.
Had for years B&W 801 with Classe CAM 350 Mono`s. Good for that time period, but the massive bass was not quick enough. Now 2 Westend Tube Amps and Gauder DARC 200. Simply perfect and utmost easy to setup. No-brainer for people like me, sitting in my room on different locations and having still always the same excellent sound. Justmy2cents
The original Talons failed to impress but eventually Mike got it right and the latest versions are excellent. Gave a pair of Fritz monitors away after a month of suffering a bright upper end and total non-linearity. (Owner was reluctant to take them back and credit me.) Owned a pair of ProAc Supertowers and did my best keeping their metal tweeters tamed by using all tube gear, but those metal tweeters could be harsh! Regarding the above references to the U District dealers in Seattle, one notable omission: The Audio Connection. John has been an excellent resource and dealer with an unvarnished, though sometimes biased opinion, with a fabulous ear. He specializes in offering excellent AND affordable systems. I owned three of the Speakerlab kits before going mainstream and the best of them all was the Speakerlab 30 which was designed by Milo Nesterovic. That was a great speaker.
There is an amazing shortage of speakers in my state to audition, so I spend hours reading online. I was pretty convinced these speakers at $19K would be fantastic.
Auditioned with moon separates but was disappointed in the total lack of any bass. One of my favorite tracks is Gordon Lightfoot’s If You Could Read My Mind - there was so much music missing, totally disappointing.
It is not the speakers that lack bass it is probably the room acoustic..... With my 7 inches driver i listen cello with my stomach.... Thanks to my room controls.... If not i would have been here complaining about my Mission Cyrus lack of bass...... Is it possible that a company that sell 19,000 bucks speakers sell them completely lacking the Tuba bass note which is in the bass driver specification description anyway?
I dont doubt your impression and review, but speakers always need controlled acoustic of the room, some speakers especially so.....
In general french speakers, Cabasse, Triangle, Focal, Jean-Marie Reynaud are too bright to my ears, it's a pity because they have a lot of other good qualities...
-Zu dirty weekends mk ii are really good in my setup except one aspect. Made them better with clarity cap upgrade (smoother upper end) and with snubbers taking them from a 12 ohm load to about 8 ohms BUT they just lack low bass. They play low bass, and very tuneful, but doesn't move air. -Vandersteen Model 3's- Don't sound bad, but don't have the detail or imaging of the zu's, but have the low end covered beautifully. Still have both not sure which I like/where to go next. If I could find a speaker that has the zu voicing with vandersteen bass, game over. -Tried a pair of Rel T/9 and could not get them to blend with Zu's. Good product but the zu's low excurtion rate is tough to "match" with high excursion Rels. Timing issues I believe. Not satisfied as of now with either but this hobby has no endgame I'm learning!
It is not the speakers that lack bass it is probably the room acoustic
while you may be correct, I cannot spend 19K on speakers that don’t sound right during an audition, and then HOPE I can make them sound better in my home.
It’s possible I’m expecting too much. But, I would expect that the dealer would have done something to make those sound as best they can, given their price point - these aren’t cheap speakers.
For main floor standing speakers, the SVS Ultra Tower, it sounded just OK, but could not handle any real power without distortion. For subs, the worst of the lot were any of the SVS subs I tried; mud, pure mud. The next worst sub was a Paradyme Prestige 2000SW, it had the same basic out of musical tune as the SVS only with a LOT more power, so it was MUD squared which shook the dishes in the kitchen with a lot of non descript noise. I preferred to have no sub at all to letting that one play. It was on loan from a local shop and I used it only one day before it went back along with the SVS Ultra 16 sub, which too was terrible. They lent me a pair of Bryston Middle T main speakers to try out, WOW! I mean these just sang in my place. I ended up stepping up to the Bryston Model T's which were Wow on steroids, especially with the PX1 external heavy duty, no holds barred crossovers with massive air core inductors. I have yet to hear any speakers at any shop which sounds better than my Bryston's. Now using a Bryston Model T triple woofer sub and two other Axiom Audio subs, one with a single 12 inch driver and the other with dual 12 inch drivers; both with the same amps as the Bryston. I don't plan on ever changing any of these speakers; in fact I had Axiom custom build me beautiful center speaker using matching drivers for the Bryston's in black and a knotty pine cabinet.
Every Tekton that I have heard after the Double Impact.
The Double Impact, for it’s price when it came out was/is a solid rock and party speaker. Fun, fast, good bass. Sure, the cabinets are borderline, and they have a fair amount of resonance. But at 3k (I think 2500 when introduced maybe?) - it was competitive.
The DISE - $2500 more, didn’t hear much if any difference from the DI. (I do see it’s down to 4k recently). Still not sure I would drop that extra 1k.
Double Impact Monitor - ah, might as well pay the 1k to get the DI.
Anything with the BE tweeters - pushing bright for me when I have heard them.
The Ulf’s and MOAB’s... honestly I just didn’t hear much more out of them then I did the Double Impact. Same sound, maybe a little more of it, same OK cabinet, paint job etc. At those price points, would be nice to have more bracing, a decent grill, and an option of veneer over the rattle can paint. (half kidding, it’s better than rattle can, but it’s not great, nor based on a friends pair - durable).
So from a disappointment standpoint - Tekton, as a line-up was disappointing to me, with one notable exception - the original DI. It’s not perfect, but no 3k speaker is. It’s a definite one to look at in that price range (but you have to get by the cabinets, so-so build quality etc). But, if I were going to do a party room/bar/big gym - heck yes they are on my list. If I were in college... I would scratch and claw to find 2k to buy a used pair.
But I would not consider any other speaker in their line-up. I also understand the caveats of customer service with Tekton. So, that is a part of it.
Others that disappointed - Focal, anytime I’ve heard them, that damn tweeter just has to be the star of the show. I did hear a pair of Sopra 2’s with a rogue tube-amp. That helped a lot, but the bass sucked then.
The Paradigm Persona ear bleed inducing line-up... too bright. (though, if your hearing has faded, or you have legit hearing damage) and you listen at low to moderate levels I could understand someone looking at these. They are at least coherant from top to bottom (something I just didn’t find with Focal). But if you like to listen remotely loud... not sure I would consider the Persona’s (maybe the big boys since the bass is powered and you could run tubes in the pre-amp, and possibly even the amp to smooth those suckers out).
Oh, Zu audio. Had a pair in the house. Love the company attitude, the speaker look, the USA build... but nope couldn’t stand them as speakers. (they were great about refunds etc)
"while you may be correct, I cannot spend 19K on speakers that don’t sound right during an audition, and then HOPE I can make them sound better in my home."
Nor I hope should anyone else ever have to either.
At 19k I would certainly expect a loudspeaker to be close to the state of the art in every measure. With a low end of +/- 3db at 34Hz (from their own spec sheet) it's a bit disappointing for such an expensive design to begin rolling off the bass so early.
You did well to ignore what you'd read and go with what you heard. Sometimes these reviewers 'forget' to mention that a big name speaker might simply have no real low end.
This question reminds me of the "journey" my Klipsch LaScalas have made with me. I bought the pair first, before I could afford hardly anything even remotely equal to their quality. They had to endure crappy SS Cambridge Audio AV receiver, Crap CD players, #16 guage speaker cable, $2.00 interconnects, Ortofon Red (Crap), $100 preamp....At each upgrade, those Klipsch revealed their potential. All the common criticisms toward "horny" speakers were there on steroids. Weak bass, flat soundstage....Getting the Raven Nighthawk made my eyes pop out as did the Tellurium Q Black II speaker wires, Better CD player....What I'm getting at is, these speakers became different speakers, way better speakers as my kit improved. DRAMATICALLY so much so they frankly DO NOT SOUND like the same speakers. If I read how someone doesn't like a speaker think synergy. Each piece of kit has to play nice with the rest of your set up or else AND then there's always that room. Sometimes I wonder if a "cheap" speaker couldn't made to excel in the perfect context. If you hate your speakers, try changing stuff around them. Maybe they do truly stink BUT probably more can be done to create better playmates.
Dunlavy SCII. Fortunately I worked part time at the shop that sold Dunlavy’s so I was lucky the owner let me return them as he wanted the pair I ordered to set on the floor for demos. Had an Audio Research tube amp and preamp with ARC CD2 and even with all ARC they were thin/harsh sounding with no life. No life and no bass whatsoever... I think the little EPI 100’s I had as a kid were more enjoyable. Might be exaggerating there, but boy was I glad to trade them back in for a pair of ProAcs. The ProAcs were a huge improvement. Heard all the Dunlavy’s in the store, and although the refrigerators were much better you had to have the room for them and good luck with the WAF.
Gday from Australia, hope you're all well. I was dissapointed with a set of Tannoy XTF8's. I found they lacked Bass response. Apart from that, they were ok. I was running them firstly with a Cambridge Audio CXA60, and then a Parasound P6. Same result. I sold the Tannoy's for a set of Australian made Transmission Line Speakers, made in Sth. Australia. I've kept the Parasound, but have purchased a Primaluna Dialogue Premium preamp. Wow, what a difference. I should say, I know it's two different types of speakers, also, I upgraded the woofer to a 10inch,versus a 8inch with the Tannoys. But in saying that, I was and am absolutely blown by the difference in bass response. All the best of health to all of you.. Cheers Ricey... Greg 7, at first glance, I thought that was a Devo hat... ..GREAT BAND
Alright, I get the picture. Absolutely any speakers disappoint at least some people, and that's assuming that match with the electronics is correct. To continue. There are no real good speakers, not invented yet. Speakers are always the weakest link, in this sense. Recording and room too. It is incredibly difficult to find speakers that don't at least annoy much, in one way or another. Listening at moderate levels might help a little.
Over the years I’ve not seen ProAcs getting much flak from users.
@inna,
"Listening at moderate levels might help a little."
It does.
Every single speaker I’ve ever owned began to throw out unacceptable levels of bass and treble distortion on the rare occasions I wanted to turn the volume dial a bit further than usual.
But then I have never owned speakers like the really big Tannoys, JBLs or Klipch’s. Apparently some fancy clubs in London used to employ Tannoy Westminster’s to get the party swinging.
Or at least they did back when we were all still free.
It is incredibly difficult to find speakers that don’t at least annoy much, in one way or another.
I dont think that my Mission Cyrus are so good and better than the best names people named here...No way... They are good but cannot beat most highly designed speakers... My ols Tannoy were better for example... But why the Mission are so amazing now ?
They had no defect on any count to my ears.... Is it their miraculous design that produce miracles?
Not at all, it is the passive treatment and active controls of my small room...
Save for little cheap box, and some exceptional badly designed speakers, it is the ROOM who kill or ressuscitate speakers...I repeat that because if someone never experience it by himself it is incredible and UNIMAGINABLE...
Some use very,very costly, gear and their sound is bad, fatguing and the timbre unnatural why?
Who really think that a 100,000 bucks speakers are bad? No way, designers at this level are not stupid....
It is the ROOM.....
No speaker can exceed his room, any controlled room can exceed any part of the audio system in potential S.Q.
"It is the ROOM..... No speaker can exceed his room, any controlled room can exceed any part of the audio system in potential S.Q."
I'm inclined to agree. My modest music centre did sound pretty good in our old house. My current system is supposedly vastly superior but not as satisfying.
Some of that will be down to me being a lot younger back then and in the early days of discovering the world of rock music courtesy mainly of 2 books (The Illustrated "New Musical Express" Encyclopaedia of Rock and Paul Gambaccini's Critic's Choice: Top 200 Albums).
Even so, some of that must have been down to the room. Perhaps my previous room was a little bit more lively, and that fitted better in with my tastes?
Unfortunately most of us are constrained in the choice of what (size of speakers) we can put into our room nevermind which room we can put them in.
Therefore it's mostly a question of making the best of what we have.
Anyway, point taken, every loudspeaker must be considered in conjunction with the environment it is to be used in.
As someone once said, it is usually a question of placing one box inside another one.
I’m inclined to agree. My modest music centre did sound pretty good in our old house. My current system is supposedly vastly superior but not as satisfying.
I will repeat myself but if someone has not lived through a complete transformation of an audio system, without any upgrade of gear, reaching a higher new scale of S.Q. with acoustic treatment and controls ( non electronic one in my case) it is UNIMAGINABLE...
And most people has never experienced it , and if so on an uncomplete and small scale...
My luck is i own a room only for my audio experiments, nothing else, then i lived throught this astounding metamorphosis of a frustrating low cost system to a new one so good that even any system at any price will not urge me to upgrade.... My system is by no means the best there is, but is embedded the best i could during my last 2 years experiments...
If the vibraphone and the piano or the orchestra are in the room with natural timbre perception in 2 listening positions the goal is achieved...
Nobody can exagerate the impact of acoustic, everyone is engaged in the valuation impact of electronic design of amplifier or dac they just bought.... This is consumerism blind to the necessary measures and works linked to the controls of the 3 working dimensions of any audio system....Valorizing mainly electronic design is an half truth that hide the audio journey precious goal: everybody with a modest system but a good one can enjoy true hi-fi experience modulo the rightful embeddings controls...
My saying is not very popular among those who boast with 200,000 bucks system for sure, especially when they never have put a great effort in their acoustic management... 😁
But acoustic is more around 80 % of the S.Q. than around 50 %, of the potential which a system can deliver.... i increase my percentage in the last 2 months because of my new Helmholtz room tuner and bottles flabbergasting impact ... 😊
Can't agree more with @danvignau I, too, own a pair of the latest B&W 800 series and I don't find them bright at all. I'm also someone who can't stand bright sounding system. I have had tinnitus for years and bright sound aggravates it.
I remembered auditioning the B&W in a few dealers and they all sounded bright to me. But I took the leap of faith and purchased them anyway because I owned a pair of B&W CM7 and they sounded great. I pair my 804 D3 with Parasound pre and power amps JC-2 and JC-5 and they sound great with lots of details and not bright at all. I think pairing the speakers to the right electronics is the key.
A lot of Klipsch. Including all their new Bluetooth stuff like Sixes. And LS50 from KEF, completely overrated (Xeo 2 from the Danes is spectacular at that price range).
Looks like we have mentioned every highly rated speaker.
I own the Focal Sopra 2’s, they are 8 feet out in the room. I have them on Iso-Acoustics Gaii-1’s footers. I also have in my room ASC tube traps in the corners, Stillpoints Aperture 2’s and other acoustic treatment. I am also using tube mono blocks.
Anyway, the Focal Sopra 2’ s are the best sounding speaker I have ever heard in my audio room. For those that say that the Focal’s are bright are just not setting them up properly and getting the most out of them. And, that may be true for all speakers.
For those that say that the Focal’s are bright are just not setting them up properly and getting the most out of them. And, that may be true for all speakers.
For sure you are right no very well known designer of speakers at this price point is stupid...
Most people ignore totally that right out of the box in their room, no speakers at any price can work at their optimal and wished level of S.Q.
They ignore what i was ignoring totally myself before i discovered it by simple experiments in the last 2 years: Any audio system parts and the system itself must be rightfully mechanically and electrically and acoustically embedded...Reviewers sells gear they dont explain HOW to use it at all... Most of the times they ignore it themselves and it is easy to spot when you know....
No upgrade can replace these triple embeddings controls, only hide their fundamental impact behind apparent secondaries "upgrade" in S.Q.
Sorry for those who think they know some speakers because they have bought it....Or because it is mainly an firstly a matter of their "taste"....Embeddings controls has nothing to do with "taste" and "upgrade" either to begin with.... "Taste" play his part at the end and at the last moment when all controls are in place, then someone can speak about "taste" for some speakers and less "taste" for another but only IF the 2 branded names compared are rightfully embedded....Not before....
Dsp is not acoustic treament and not purely acoustical controls...
It is not designed to replace mechanical (vibrations and resonance) controls...
It is not designed to lower the floor noise of the house grid...
It can help....
I dont need it ....
And remember that my goal is peanuts cost Higher S.Q.
I succeed to a great extent then i dont need nor want to invest money in DSP...
But i will try a free program this summer to adjust my speakers and room with a mic to finetune my results...
My system is more than good now at 2 listening different positions....I trashed so to speak my 7 pairs of headphones.... Then... I think that my room/speakers are good now... 😊
Sometimes its not the speaker but the combination of the speaker/amp and room that causes such brightness.
Also, many people find horn speakers too bright, but, in actuality, they may be driven by the wrong electronics or, better yet, they are right and what you have been listening to previously was wrong. I've heard some excellent horn speakers.
it may sound good to your ears, but, may not be correct. I can't tell you how many speakers I've heard where the bass was way over the top and people were sitting there enjoying it. no way was it recorded that way. But, they had ear to ear grins on.
years ago I heard a McIntosh system, amp/speakers, etc. that literally drove me out of the sound room. However, I don't believe that they equipment was properly broken in.
One must be careful taking someone else's word on equipment. As you can see on this forum, there are many people that are very biased in their opinions of equipment. And worst, they haven't even heard the equipment you are talking about.
Go to audio shows (when Covid is over) and listen. I've been to many and read reviews from others that claim that the particular system sounded like crap. I was in the same room and in my opinion, the system sounded quite good. you have to hear and see for yourself.
It just occurred to me that most people who dis B&W's (800 series) have only heard them on the terrible ROTEL equipment at Best Buy. I agree that they are overpriced, but what isn't? If you want to hear what B&W can do, go to am audio expo and listed to the actual Nautilus, with its four stereo amps of 350 wpc. I know people who spent more and got less, even with only one amp. Check out a google search of Lucas Sound's demo system, with a whole bunch of diamond 800 speakers. Even this system costs less than a lot of folks pay.
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