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I once heard some B&W 601s at a show with some friends. They were on chrome pedestal stands being driven by some Arcam gear.
We were all surprised that such small speakers could sound so large.
I later auditioned some 602s and whilst I didn’t end up buying them, there was no denying that they were very well rounded speakers. [ I’ve also heard some B&W Zeppelin Bluetooth speakers which were nothing to write home about, but that’s another story.]
Therefore it’s a bit strange to read that later and far more ambitious models are failing to satisfy.
Surely, in a head to head, the 800 series would be better than the 600 series? Especially given the reputation of their much vaunted tweeter tech in their larger speakers.
Could it be that as asking the price goes up our expectations go up accordingly?
If so, then would it ever be possible to be satisfied?
Therefore might it not be better to forget about price and judge purely on sound quality?
For example I heard the Kerr K320s at another show and whilst I loved them, I found the much larger (and more expensive) K1000s left me cold. They just sounded more washed out despite their power handling and dynamics.
They reminded me of the Naim S 600 with their BMR driver. Impressive in scale but not in tone.
This thread seems to be suggesting that every listener has a correspondingly different set of needs when it comes to loudspeakers.
One which often defies price. |
Mainly room mismatch cd318. Wide smooth response requires sidewall control.
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Anything Klipsch and B&W i've tried before...ugh |
When I was searching for a new pair of speakers I found I couldn't listen to the Wilson's and Magico's for very long, before fatigue set in. |
of speakers ive owned: these were somewhat dissapointing
kef ls50
genelec 1037b
Wilson audio cub 2
chartwell ls35a
various tannoys
jbl lsr32 |
As requested, these are just speakers that lived in my home. I've plenty of opinions on metal domed and diamond tweeters as well as horns in general (and that's ignoring brands that never did it for me).
Genesis II+ (1978, not the known Genesis co.) first speaker, still have.
McIntosh XR-240 (early 90s) so-so, poor choice, traded for 2.5i's.
NHT 2.5i mid-fi (used with other NHT's 1.5's, 1.3's) for video purposes.
Martin Logan SL3 (1995-2011 main audio) picky but good, still have.
Thiel 2.4s very nice, not so dry (had my brother's pair 6mos).
B&W DM-302 (2000) tad bright, a gem at $199/pr, still have.
Dynaudio Sapphire (2012-2016) replaced SL3 as 2 channel, traded.
Dynaudio Excite X-12 (2014-2016) nice with small R.E.L, traded.
Scansonic MB2.5 (2015-2016) fabulous, w/sub even better, traded.
Raidho D2 (2016-present) Possible last speakers. Stunningly beautiful sound, aided by DSP and R.E.L. B1 sub rarely (if desired, not needed).
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Pretty much any Klipsch for me. Yes, even the Klipschorn.
At every price point, there are speakers that are more accurate, more detailed, better imaging. The Klipsch's good dynamics are not nearly enough for me to overlook everything else they don't do well.
Back at the beginning of the summer, my cousin had a new pair of Hersey IV that he loaned to me while he was out of town. I had them for almost a month.
At first, I was taken in by their excitement and dynamics. But it didn't take long for all their warts to take over.
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I noticed one major speaker brand that has not been mentioned in this thread of infamy and that is Sonus Faber. I have only heard them twice in stores but they sounded very good to me in the store. I also like Wilson speakers. I have heard Wilson speakers in someone’s home and I liked the sound. True story: I had a work buddy in the late 80s who had Thiel 2 2s with Spectral gear. They sounded very good. I was using planars at the time and his Thiels were the first box speaker that didn’t sound like a box to me. 13 years passed before I bought my first Thiel speakers and I bought them used because every time I auditioned them in a store they were too bright, strident and sometimes I thought they would drill a hole in my head. I wanted something more dynamic than planars but I couldn’t find the right speaker. Based on my buddy’s system I finally bought some used CS3.6s to try. It took a couple of amp and cable changes but they finally made me very happy. A few years later I got the CS6’s. No fatigue issues here but they are finicky about source components and cables. |
I have Thiel CS6's and never could get them dialed in, after a bunch of amps and cable I pushed the against the wall and moved on. They are my biggest audio miss-judgement and costly mistake. The last two days have been rainy so I set them up. Incredible mid range and detail in the upper frequencies. As always with these speaker the bass is OK but seems like it was an engineering after thought. Some mistakes have a silver lining. My current system is Endgame!
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Hi vegasears,
I understand what you are saying. The CS6's do not have that chest thumping bass if that is what you are looking for. I grew up in the 70s when we played hard rock loud and fuzzy and the drums kicked you in the gut. These days if I play Black Sabbath or some hard rock record it is almost comical because the music is so clear and refined. The Pass amps make for strong bass but it is still not like Wilsons, for example. This may be heresy to some but I added subwoofers which takes the lows down deep and adds some oompf but still not that sharp kick in the gut. I don't think subs go high enough for that. If I crank it up real real loud the bass can get strong but I'm scared something's going to blow and I don't like it that super loud. 86 dBa average is very loud to me these days. I would say that the Thiels are not the best hard rock speaker out there but they excel at Jazz, vocals and are good with classical. |
After years of being away from really critically listening to music, I found myself last year with the "itch" again. I am a budget listener...so trade offs are always part of the equation. In the past I'd try to read up on so called recommendations and visit local hi-fi dealers. I had Epos ELS-3s that were okay. Went to some smaller Energy CB-5s that I thought were decent for the money. I then bought some BW 600 S3s. Followed those with some Boston Acoustics CR 55s. I've tried and returned PSB Imagine XBs and am about to do the same with Q Acoustics 3030is. The last two, I have been so disappointed in the upper registers. For example, playing "Walking on the Moon" by the Police, so much information and detail is missing. The BWs have a brighter more defined treble but it does have draw backs. I'll keep looking. A friend recommended JBL Studio 530s...hopefully they are better.... My point, I guess, is that I like brighter more defined treble. Any recommendations would be appreciated |
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@mowkewp4 I’ve listened to the B&W 704 S2 in a demo, but ended up getting the Monitor Audio Silver 300. The MA has the defined treble of the B&W and sounds incredibly "fast" for a dynamic speaker. The Silver 300s have a a smoother top end than the 704 S2 while not yielding any clarity or quickness. Subjectively, I think the Silver 300s also play much in a more coherent way than the 704 S2s. As a reference point, the 704 S2 was a huge step up for me from the B&W 603 S2 in sounding musical. |
Thank you for the feed back. I appreciate it. I was truly surprised by the PSB and Q Acoustics lack of detail in the higher end. Luckily I was able to demo them both at home with free shipping and free returns. The BW DM 600 have a good detailed tweeter but overall, I need more. I will put the Monitor Audios next up on my list. There was a pair that came up in the fall and were gone in minutes |
I'm in the camp that the KEF LS50 is way over rated for the price. I have a pair of Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 that sound almost as good for a third of the price.
Years ago I had a pair of Walsh Ohm towers that sure never did it for me and were expensive as heck. Same with a pair of Dynaudio Contour 5.4. Almost 10K and virtually no bass.
I have a pair of used NHT bookshelf in the garage and they sound great for what they are and cost. Had a pair of PMC TB2 out there that were awesome and wished I'd kept.
Like other have stated, have heard several B&W's and Monitor Audio's in high end shops and thought they all sounded decent but way to bright and would be so fatiguing in no time.
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B&W 8 series ---Just plain plain and boring sounding.
Piega Master Line Source 2 --- I so wanted to buy them and then I heard them...ughhh just terrible
Magico S3&5 ---- they were just to bright and in your face. I know I would have gotten tired of them quickly even though they are considered a high end speaker.
I will stick with my Viking Acoustic Grande Voix Dual Horn speakers everyday of the week. |
KEF R3 I wanted to love them! They looked and sounded great at the big ol’ Magnolia Audio showroom, and I assumed that if they sounded good there, they’d sound GREAT with real gear (vinyl, tubes) at my house. But there was something happening around 3Khz that made my ears ring. Some things sounded really alive and exciting, but there was always that sharp upper mid spike clobbering me and forcing me to turn the music down. After a couple of weeks of break-in (pink noise, dynamic music, etc.), I finally gave up and returned them. 2nd Prize: B&W 685 S2 These guys got such universal praise that I HAD to check them out. To be fair, they sounded more full-range than I’d expected (even subjectively deeper and more dynamic bass than my previous Nautilus 805s). Definitely a detailed speaker. But as their manual described, "where there may be a significant increase in the amount of detail compared with wha tthe listener has previously been used to; the sound may at firstappear too "up front" and perhaps a little hard" ... yes. When the MANUAL tells you this, maybe it’s a sign?It went on to recommend a break-in period of anywhere from 15 hours to a month "or longer." After 3 days, I couldn’t hack it anymore. |
