Whats the next step after the Bluesound Node 2i? I love the interface with the Bluesound so I don’t want to go backwards on that and I do use the bluetooth option sometimes to stream soundcloud, which sounds really quite good. My main service is Amazon HD music.
So, what next? Schiit Gungir Multibit or Cambridge Audio Azur 851N or ...?
Thanks for your help! I know this has probably been discussed before but I couldn’t find the threads!
Given that you like the interface, in your shoes my next step would be to pair the Node 2i with your outboard DAC of choice. Schiit products are all good value for the dollar. I have paired the Node 2i with a Chord Qutest, and loved the combo. There are many good choices out there, both new and used, depending on your budget.
I went to a TEAC NT-505 and wish I would have just started there. Bluesound is a nice way to get your feet wet with streaming though. The TEAC / Lumin software is not as good as Blue OS, but you can use Bubbleupnp, which is really good.
I keep thinking the Gungnir must be due for an upgrade. For immediate use it probably wouldn’t matter since the Node 2i doesn’t have USB out, but we all want a bit of future proofing. I recently went from using the Node through an Oppo BDP-105 to a Chord Qutest via coax. I wasn’t sure the Bifrost 2 would be enough of an upgrade and dreaded buying a Gungnir only to have a new model come out next month. I still want to hear some Multibit & R2R DACs someday, but think I’ve pushed my DAC to the point of diminishing returns until I upgrade the Node and a few other things first.
@catdoorman, we posted at exactly the same time, haha!
I got the Gungir Multibit, gen 2 usb (which isn’t the most current usb). I like that they are all modular so you can upgrade them later. The usb upgrade is only $200 if I want to do that, we’ll see.
I figured for close to the price of the biffost multibit new, I should just go with the gungir used. If I don’t love it, I figured I could resell it for not too much of a loss. Another reason that I went with it is because it’s made in the usa (probably with chinese parts but whatever).
@b_limo I was on the fence, too. I’ve heard nothing but good things. Hope you got a good deal. I think sometimes when we buy blind off reviews we get fixated and obsess a little on one specific model without any rational reason. When that happens I’ve learned to just go with it, because no matter how much you end up liking your second choice, it will always feel just like that.
Many BlueSound Node2/i owners run MHDT Orchid DACs. Linear Tube Audio sells them in the USA or you can buy from MHDT direct on eBay. Several members here and other sites own MHDT DACs, well regarded for the $.
Might want to try a Denafrips Ares II. I have one combined with my Node 2i. I set the Ares II to NOS mode, I think the combo is quite excellent plays though a Naim XS3 and ProAc Tablette Sigantures.
My 2 cents: The Schiit Gungnir or Yggy are about on par with the Ayre Codex. The new Ayre QB-9 with 20 upgrade is another step up. Given the current prices of used Codex's, I would get one in a heartbeat. (I own two Codex's for my 2 Nodes). B
Of Logitech Media Server, Volumio and BluOs I like the BluNode the least. The persistent queue is a pain and it has trouble with genres. Even random play is the worst of the 3. There's that. The SQ is mostly dependant on the qualities of the DAC. Find one you like.
I added a Schiit Gungir Multibit last fall and it’s a nice dac very smooth through out only thing I’d say it’s lacking is it’s a little lean sounding. Other then that it’s clean and fluid sounding.
@b_limo i I have the nodi 2i with a gungnir MB. Use a blackcat silverstar cable BNC for the connection. It has an adapter for the the node2i coax out. Also get a better power cord for the node2i. It’s great
Well, you already made a purchase, but for any others in a similar position... I’d point them to start with Chord Mojo. I know, not 100% ideal for desktop setup, but $-for-$, man what a great sound. And will let you know if a used 2qute or new qutest are a sound you’d like down the line. AND a great option if you want to dip your toes into headphones/IEMs for traveling.
But in the end, take all advice here as a far distant 2nd to your own ears and preferences. No shortcuts to happiness beyond figuring out what that means for you, within a certain budget envelope.
Do all of these streamers work with Amazon HD? I am streaming with a $40 Tao Tronics blue tooth receiver, which works ok but would like to improve the SQ. I would like to stay with Amazon HD.
It amazes me how people start a thread and then buy an item before they have received all the feedback from the community and then complain about the audience not following the thread closely enough. For others who might be interested in this topic - I was recently in the same boat though I had a Node 2. After considering a bunch of different DACs I dove in head first and bought a Mytek Manhattan and could not be happier. I had planned to buy just a DAC with no streaming capabilities but Mytek was (probably still is) running a special where they have discounted the DAC by $300 and thrown in the network card for free. On top of that Mytek made a donation equivalent to 10% of the purchase cost to charities on the frontline of the pandemic in NYC. I also liked the idea of supporting a small domestic business during a difficult time. Regarding SQ the switch from Node to Mytek wasn’t small - it is night and day. The extension on both ends, the presence, sound stage, are amazing but above all was the clarity. I can’t tell you how many lyrics of songs I’ve known for decades I now know correctly (think REM, etc). A bunch of songs that have backing lyrics that I hadn’t realized were there - even being able to count the voices. I started by using the Node streamer via coax and that was good but the network card is better. Surprisingly I’ve found, at least for Tidal, I like the MyControl Connect HD interface better than Blusound as it gives me ready access to MyMixes and the Artist Radio Stations I was never able to locate using the Blusound interface. The Mytek Manhattan is a big step up from the Node (~10X $) but to my ears well worth the cost.
@feldmen4 It amazes me how people start a thread and then buy an item before they have received all the feedback from the community and then complain about the audience not following the thread closely enough...
And, I've seen no rules indicating responses belong to the original poster with a time limit or pre-conditions. Thankfully, it's an open forum where threads can continue for years beyond. Others will camp on later and continue to benefit from from feedback and experiences well beyond the original post and first few pages of replies.
If you add an external DAC to the Node 2i, you will not be able to listen to MQA. I purchased an external DAC with my Node 2i and preferred the Node 2i played by itself. Bass was better with just the Node 2i and I thought the imaging was also better.
If you add an external DAC to the Node 2i, you will not be able to listen to MQA. I purchased an external DAC with my Node 2i and preferred the Node 2i played by itself. Bass was better with just the Node 2i and I thought the imaging was also better.
Not true on more than one level. For starters, there are certainly DACs that do all the MQA unfolding. I guess you aren't aware of that little fact.
Secondly, a good DAC will sound better regardless. My modified MHDT Pagoda, which does NOT support MQA, sounded better playing back MQA files than the Node doing the complete unfold. The DAC you purchased was not up to the task to best the cheap DAC in the node.
The Node is good, but it is no giant killer. The DAC is only average or slightly above.
I believe the Bluesound Node need not be upgraded as a ’steamer’ in the next step. And, I agree that the DAC can be upgraded very significantly with many various products (some of which have already been mentioned). However, the digital cable running into the DAC is also going to be important. Thanks Jack
@Larry5729 I purchased an external DAC with my Node 2i and preferred the Node 2i played by itself. Bass was better with just the Node 2i and I thought the imaging was also better. ...
That can happen if an inferior or equivalent external apples-to-apples $400-$500 DAC is used. The internal Burr Brown 24/192 DAC in the Node2"i" version is not horrible. It’s okay. Not great, a bit veiled over, less detail, less soundstage and simply not at the level as a really good external DAC. Try a better $1200-1500 tube DAC paired with the Node2i and it can be a completely different listening experience if the rest of the system is up to par to realize the difference. Can be me much more musical and engaging when the Node2i is paired with a great external DAC.
If you add an external DAC to the Node 2i, you will not be able to listen to MQA. I purchased an external DAC with my Node 2i and preferred the Node 2i played by itself. Bass was better with just the Node 2i and I thought the imaging was also better.
I will jump aboard this slugfest as well.
Node 2i onboard DAC is ’average’ at best. At best. Definitely tuned for a soft, inoffensive sound at the expense of dynamics, detail and soundstage.
MQA is a can of worms. My net on it is ’iffy/sometimes’ benefit at best, and it is a pain in ass to navigate the layers of hardware issues... given the weak cost-benefit, one is better off getting a good non MQA DAC. Much of the time, the 1st unfolding gives you the lions share of the total benefit, which non-MQA DACs can typically do with the right streamer.
This being said... digital out of Node 2i is fine. Use it to feed a decent $500-1000 DAC (used or new) -- the improvement will be stunning. Any Chord DAC (including the lowly Mojo) will render the sound of Node 2i DAC dull and lifeless...on Redbook resolution. As will any of the DACs on my list above...
I have the Node 2i. I added a Topping D90 and am amazed by the accuracy, sound stage and detail. They now have a D90 with MQA as an option. I also ran a Cat 6 to the 2i and bought a power cord. The 2i interface isn't perfect but I have learned to use it. I am more frustrated with Amazon(or whatever the cause). I have "ULTRA HD" playback indicated and still see 44.1 on most songs. Rarely have I seen 192. I am not sure what the issue is. Even with that I am very satisfied with the sound. I would switch to Tidal but am not sure how to transfer the considerable amount of songs I have added to MY MUSIC. Tidal also pays the musicians more. This is sorely needed in this time when concert revenue is nearly zero.
@cio52 06-15-2020 10:46am This does seem to be an open forum on streamers and operating systems. I would like to know if anyone likes or dislikes the Play-FI operating system?
I use Play-Fi. It’s fair to "okay", evolving slightly each year with updates; not nearly as good as something like the native Spotify interface itself, more on par with the native Tidal application interface. However, with Play-Fi one can easily switch between Spotify, Tidal, Qobuz, Radio net, etc. The interface each of these players integrate with, like BlueSound (Node, Node2i) and Arcam, others using PlayFi works but needs to evolve more, and it can if they want to invest more time, $, effort in it. i.e the other important aspect of these streamers, including the Node/2i, Bluesound. Slightly off-track here, but relevant when selecting your preferred streamer/DAC, etc.
@feldman4 - thanks, and for others contributions, I’m enjoying learning about what’s out there. I’ve never owned a streamer. I used to build speakers, and in the factory there were many different devices brought in by customers and debates over MQA and original files and I was interested in it. I have a fanless computer, and I could put streaming services on it. I’ve been stuck (in the sense it’s become habit) ripping cd’s to WAV files. Maybe I should consider Tidal or one of them, I have Amazon Prime music included in my membership.
I started with the Node 2i then I upgraded my integrated amp to a McIntosh pre-amp with a DAC. Then I upgraded my DAC to a Moon D280 with a streamer. The Node was good not great. The Bluesound app was great. The sound detail was improved with each step. And when you consider the cost difference it is expected - the Moon is 5 times the cost of the Node 2i and twice the cost of the DAC module from McIntosh. Improving the source is an excellent approach. If your preamp and amp are capable of not ‘coloring’ the output. And the most important thing is your enjoyment which could be depended on the interface. I chose to use the Mind2 over the Node 2i as the streamer.
Many comments liking the Bluesound BluOS. I like it too. I'm using the Node 2i with the McIntosh C49 internal DAC and the SQ improved. Has anyone here upgraded (?) from the Node 2i to the NAD M50.2? Is there an increase in sound quality?
If you are then your Node 2i is working purely as a streamer. Your DAC comparison would be from the C49 to the M50.2. The M50.2 may also use Bluesound App as the interface. (Which I think is pretty good)
The Node 2i is one of the great values in audio right now, I think. I ran mine to an MHDT Labs Orchid and it sounded fantastic. I was wanting to simplify and I had bought a Naim Supernait 2 and found a great deal on one of their last gen DAC/Streamer, the ND5 XS. I compared to the Node/Orchid combo and felt the Naim sounded better so I sold the Node and Orchid. I think the Node is a great starter and being able to add an outboard DAC when budget allows is a nice feature.
Yes @mrklas, I am using the C49 as my DAC. So my question was: Is the M50.2 a better sounding streamer than the Node 2i since the M50.2 has no DAC. I believe this is a question that is in line with the OP's original question of "Where to go now". Thanks.
@b_limo I appreciate the acknowledgement and understand the situation. I also pulled the trigger quickly when Mytek came out with their MYTEK2020RELIEF special on the Manhattan ($300 discount + free network card + 10% donation as explained above). Supporting small business is more important to me than buying domestic though I’d want to do my research prior to buying from China. Michal at Mytek has been extremely responsive - I usually get an answer to my emails from him within a few minutes - even after hours. Not sure when the man sleeps. Hope you enjoy your Gungir. I’ll be interested the hear your thoughts.
Another vote for the Topping D90 via coax from the Node 2i. Sounds great.
But I'll take this another direction. If you want a different, better interface for your Node, think about Roon. I only have a few digital albums on a hard drive, but with Qobuz or Tidal it's truly enhanced music discovery. They have a two week free trial period. I'm listening to more, new music music of all genres than ever. Even though I have not "ripped" a bunch of my old CDs (yet), I'm finding great value in the service.
I use a Node 2 and as suggested multiple times in this thread connect it to an external higher end dac, in my case a Schiit YGGDRASIL. What ever DAC you chose to go with make sure its upgrade-able.
I use a node2+ with a Mytek Brooklyn+ and an Sbooster power supply Very happy with the sound There is a option on blue sound to use external DAC for MQA
I use a Node 2 and as suggested multiple times in this thread connect it to an external higher end dac, in my case a Schiit YGGDRASIL. What ever DAC you chose to go with make sure its upgrade-able.
I wonder if some folks do not understand digital or do not believe adding a $1500-2000 DAC on to a $549 Node2i streamer will produce favorable results. Certainly can understand why if they never tried it before.
During evaluations, before I purchased my current MHDT tube DAC, I tried adding on a new $2199 Benchmark DAC3 to my current lower $ Arcam rPlay streamer and it was remarkably different sounding, shocking in fact how much more expansive the sound stage became. While I prefer a NOS R2R Ladder tube DAC setup to change tubes (in my system), it was an extremely valuable demo to prove to oneself just how much a really good DAC can change the sound one way or the other.
so here is at little info relating to a DAC with a tube output stage:
Dynamic range is the difference in volume between the quietest and the loudest passage, commonly measured in decibels (dB).
Since 1-bit = 6dB:
16-bit Red Book CDs have a dynamic range of over 96dB.
20-bit digital master tape has a dynamic range of over 120dB.
24-bit modern HD formats have a dynamic range of over 144dB.
DACs with tube output stages: the lowest noise floor on a tube output stage is about 90dB which means despite whatever the manufacturers may claim they can't even resolve a 16-bit recording.
I run TIDAL through a Node 2 (wired input via Cat6a) to an external DAC (Electrocompaniet ECD-1) and recently upgraded the coax interconnect to a Tara Labs 'The One' with HFX ground station - SQ is excellent.
In terms of alternatives to the Node, I think you'll have to spend a lot of money to improve SQ if a high-quality digital cable and a high-quality external DAC are already in use with the Node.
I don't believe the streamer 'quality' is as important as the 'DAC'.
My rationale is when I upgraded from the Node 2i streamer, I listened to it in 3 configurations. 1. Node 2i - Streaming and functioning as a DAC 2. Node 2i - streaming with my McIntosh C2600 functioning as a DAC 3. Node 2i - streaming with Moon 280 D functioning as a DAC
I noticed an improvement from 1 and 2 on clarity of details in peaks of music. The use of the Moon as a DAC demonstrated a greater improvement and the overall details throughout the range of peaks and valleys in music.
Additionally, I tested the impact of using the Node to stream versus the Moon and I didn't hear any difference. I noticed the interface difference. Therefore I believe the streamer is simply provide source content to the DAC - I'm speaking only from experience as I am not an expert on all DACS. (I know there are some DACs that require separate clocks)
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