so this is my 1st time posting. the question is what speakers. i am going into this blind trying to put together a decent system on a budget. i live in a city where bose is considered the high end of high end and the nearest audiophile shops are hours away. over the years i have owned a lot of vintage gear and still collect some of it. solid state and tube. some of the tube gear was marantz, macintosh, dynaco, heathkit, radio craftsmen, pilot etc. also the usual solid state marantz, pioneer, kenwood, adcom. speakers jbl, polk, altec (model 19 and vott), paradigm, klipsch, bozak, sansui, AR, advent. all the usual suspects so far i have purchased a copland tube pre cta-305 and a pair of rogue audio m180 amps. all mint condition all under a year old for under half price of new. i also have a denon DP-60L TT (with sumiko pearl cartridge) speaker budget is around 5000 give or take a 1000. if i'm patient i think i can find something that was originally in the 12-20k price range for what i want to spend. so far i am leaning towards ew andra ii, dali euphonia 800, canton reference 3.2, revel studio ii. size is also a factor and all of these are within that limit. i have a fairly large area open concept living /dinning and breakfast nook with high ceilings. and i know "dont buy without listening" but not an option so looking for some opinions/options
after speakers i will be getting tuner, cd and music server, current interconnects and speaker wire are all ZU mission
Hello! Six months ago I bought AER JAZZ & SUB.It is necessary to take just two subwoofers for a large premise. Today the best speakers are Acuton and AER! With this system you will get the best high and medium frequencies, the bass will be in harmony with the AER BD speakers. https://aer-loudspeakers.com/aer-jazz/ Here is a track without a subwoofer, so you can compare high and medium frequencies -https://youtu.be/ltHYSAZHbHE https://youtu.be/G6crfmX5Z3E
@dragonbutx, I agree with Ina about the Focal Alto Be speakers. I used to own their bigger brother, the Focal Utopias and the Utopia house sound, build quality, aesthetics and re-sale value are reasons I would also recommend these speakers.
You may want to consider saving some money by buying a good music streamer/server/DAC like a Lumin S1 or if on a budget an Aurender A10. I recommend making sure it's MQA certified.
This will allow you to not buy a CD layer or a tuner. A TIDAL HiFi subscription for $20/month gives you access to over 35,000,000 songs at Redbook CD quality. I can't tell a difference between Redbook format songs I stream via TIDAL and CDs I play on my Ayre CD player. You'll also have the advantage of playing MQA songs which trump CD Redbook sound quality. TIDAL's MQA album selection is growing rapidly.
Instead of a tuner, you can use TuneIn or other free Internet radio station players integrated in the music server. Just make sure the music server you select supports seamless integration of TIDAL MQA and internet radio stations such as TuneIn and you'll be good to go.
I certainly have no argument with Focal speakers. However, I own a Rogue Cronus Magnum II, and I have them paired with Sonus Faber Venere 2.5's. It's an extremely strong match at a good bit less expense then Focal Utopias. And don't just take my word for it, I have a brother-in-law with $50k invested in his system, and he agrees my system sounds very, very good.
I was in a similar situation needing to buy audiophile level speakers without auditioning. Based on my reading of the AVS forum and Audiogon I determined it was pretty hard to go wrong with Dynaudio. One of the guys who deals on Audiogon hooked me up with a new pair of Contour 3.4LEs and an ATI amp at a great price. I couldn't be happier with the setup. They sound absolutely stunning, and look gorgeous. I added a Dynaudio center channel and SVS SB16 ultra sub and I've got a nice HT setup too. I wouldn't say I'm the most critical listener, but I appreciate the nuances of well reproduced instruments playing at a healthy 75-80 db.
You raise interesting points regarding the AMT driver and the forward sound of the upper region. However, as a current owner of the Reference and former owner of the One I can tell you in my experience it is not "unnatural" or "ear-popping" by any means. Correct placement and/or room treatments is important though, but that too is the case with any speaker.
The OP claims he/she is looking for something in the 4 - 6K price range. Don't you think it's a bit unrealistic to even mention a Focal Utopia in this thread? If I'm not mistaken their top model is the grande utopia em and the MSRP on that is 200K or there about. If we come back down to earth, I still maintain anything in the GE Triton Tower line would be something for the OP to consider and would imagine (although I honestly can't say with first hand/ear experience) that the GE would best anything in the Focal line at the same price point.
I'd save the road trip. To me, it's not very helpful to listen to a speaker in an unfamiliar room/electronics. Just a poor way to make a big decision. You have to do a home audition.
So taking a chance on the Tekton Double Impacts was the best audio decision I ever made. These are great for rock but honestly do well with anything you throw at them. You would really do yourself a disservice to not consider these.
And in the interest of marital bliss, you'd come in $2-3000 UNDER budget!
I'd wait to audition the new Elac AF-61 floorstander, which created a lot of buzz at the recent Munich and LA shows. And they're $5000 a pair. Worth a Google.
Maggie's have a soundstage and bass that you either like or don't, are room sensitive, and the ones I've heard seemed amp-sensitive...so more of a crapshoot if bought blind.
@gdhal, the Focal Utopia family has lots of models. An A'gon member suggested a pair of Utopia Alto Be's that are on A'gon with an asking price within the OP's budget.
Sonus Faber original cremonas over the M series works great with the Rogue m 180. They have better drivers, there is a pair listed that falls in your budget.
I have a pair that are powered with Rogue m180. When I got the upgrade bug, but didn't have the scratch a few years ago, I added a Pair of REL B2. Sounds incredible - Cremona and M180 are very tweak friendly.
Should also check out these guys the silverbacks and gibbons are fantastic.
JMO, but a lot of these speakers being recommended sound fantastic for everything but hard rock which is a whole different animal. Years ago I spent almost 10 grand on a pair of Dynaudio Contour 5.4 which absolutely blew me away in the showroom but at home and especially with my rock cd's sounded sub-par.
Could have been my room, electronics, etc. but it was an expensive learning experience regardless.
Went back to Indy a few years later and auditioned some more speakers but took my own cd's with me. Listened to some Vandersteen, Dali, B&W, and Sonus Faber. Liked the Sonus Faber the best but since I'm a bass hound ended up with a pair of PMC's which I'm pretty happy with.
Definitely do your homework if you are spending that much money.
In all honesty...I haven't read every single response to your inquiry. However, like yourself...I've been around the block a few times and my ears have roughly 40-years of training (give or take). I grew up with a pair of Bozak 410 concert grands that were my dad's. Fortunately for me...he decided to live on a boat...long story short...they've been in my possession for 12-years or so. They were powered with an old McIntosh 2200 amp so when I inherited them I switched out the 2200 for a McIntosh MC300. Each cabinet have 14-drivers and although the cabinets are 4' x 3' x 18" (hxwxd) and weigh in at 250 lbs (solid walnut) they magically disappear when in use. In addition to the Bozak's, I've owned (own) JM Labs (big and small), Kef's, B&W's, Tanoy's, Dunlavy's, old Klipsch (when they were still made by hand), PSB's, and Merlin speakers (old and new) to name but a few. If you're interested I would be happy to share with you the three (3) separate stereo (AV) systems I have (one on each of three floors...my wife knew what she was getting herself into when we married). This said...I have auditioned and listened to in great detail hundreds of other speakers to include commercial, stereo enthusiasts who created their own and everything in between. Although I like (and prefer) the presence of larger cabinet speakers (usually decreases the need for a separate sub-woofer)...I've always been impressed with what Bobby Z., up at Merlin can shove into a box. I would encourage you to find a pair of their current speakers (floor standing or bookshelf) and give them about 20-60 minutes of your time (depending on how many LP's/discs, etc you decide to bring. In the long run...it's your ear and wallet (and loved ones) who make the final decisions. If possible, I would also audition a pair of Meyer Sound HD-1 studio monitors. I'm lucky enough to have a pair to use as my computer speakers (sort of home studio studio) but like the Merlin's...they are magical to my ears! One more thing. Many "audiophiles" I've spoken with (including myself) offer this suggestion: When you play a piece of music you have listened to over and over and over again through a pair of speakers you have never heard before and you find yourself beginning to tear-up and/or cry...those are the speakers you should purchase." Besides, life is too short to listen to muddy, watered down sound that cost you an arm and a leg!
@gdhal, the Focal Utopia family has lots of models. An A'gon member suggested a pair of Utopia Alto Be's that are on A'gon with an asking price within the OP's budget.
@cycles2
I found/find the Focal website to be a bit "quirky" (i.e. difficult to readily find information, among other things). In particular, there didn't seem to be any pricing at all. Regardless, I'll stand by my assertion which is that dollar-for-dollar the Golden Ear Triton Tower lineup will best the Focal line. Even if I'm mistaken, the point of my post is that at a minimum, the OP should consider GE and make his/her own decision.
Liked the Sonus Faber the best but since I'm a bass hound ended up with a pair of PMC's which I'm pretty happy with.
@norton
Should the opportunity present itself, you may be interested to listen to the Triton Reference. Many of the speakers mentioned in this would require a separate quality sub (and likely two) to even come close to the bass/bottom of the T Refs. Despite what many believe, there is *plenty* of "sound" going on beneath 40Hz.
If you were not so intent on pushing Triton you might have read this thread. Cycles2 is correct - there is an earlier post with a link to a pair of used Focal Utopia that is within the OP's budget.
I'm curious: has the Merlin sound changed over the years?
I had experience with the older VSMs that everyone used to rave about. For me they utterly epitomized "hi-fi" that was detailed and quick, but dry and utterly without soul or tonal color. Amazing for their size, but completely uninvolving. (To my ears).
And...Bobby Plakovic passed away a few years ago, right? Are Merlins still being made?
I can't be 100% sure but I think Kevin of VAC has Focal Grand Utopia for his work and personal use. This is a strong endorsement. Yes, of course I was thinking close to the OP's upper price limit. I was in fact a little surprised that you could get such a high level of performance for reasonable money. Would I get them myself if I wanted to upgrade and could afford them? I would strongly consider them, but I would also have to get tube electronics including phono, so it would in fact be an almost complete system rebuilding except for the table/arm and couple of cables.
I read one of your responses and felt I needed to respond when I saw Pantera and Priest among your preferences, as they are two of my all time favorites. I have a stupid collection of speakers and gear which has gotten a bit out of hand.... and I listen to everything from Metal to Classical, jazz, funk and whatever else I can sink my teeth into-often all in the same day as my rig is my office. For the lsat year My go to speakers have been b&w cdm 9's for good music but I never beat on them- I crank tunes with JBL L100t3s and some old 4311's- Speaking of the mighty Priest, I cooked the tweeters in some giant Klipsch KLF30s which absolutely rocked (albeit with a bit of "horn tweeter fatigue) while wailing heading out to the highway- recently I scored an entire Revell set up of original Gems and M20's?? Not sure- either way, I've got to say that the Revel Gems have been running daily for about 2 months and playing everything I can spin on Tidal- They really do sound good. last night began with Yo Yo Ma and ended with Ice T's Body Count covering Slayer. The revels are solid, very good sounding speakers but as a rock roll man, I'm always looking for more bottom end so I'm considering a JL sub to replace my older Paradignm 10". I think the Revel stuff will take the abuse better than the B&Ws. and the revels have been noted in many hifi pubs for their ability to handle a lot but I also think a sweet set up would be maybe some used 805 2 ways but a sub would be mandatory - Ideally I'm working towards Having 2 killer systems- one for real listing, and one for really kicking ass. i certainly have enough gear- just not enough time to make it happen
Wow. When shadorne becomes inflamed about you pushing brands, you know you have violated all objectivity.
Dave
Hi Dave. I'm certain you already know I truly enjoy your witticism. What you may not know is that I do at times follow the advice of others on the forum. And while I certainly could have engaged shadorne in some spirited back-and-forth, in this case, I'll simply "play in another sandbox".
Post number 1 below the OP thread starter has a link to a used Focal Utopia for sale.
I chimed in that this was an excellent suggestion and an opportunity worth taking immediately.
Gdhal ignored this twice in an attempt to dismiss Focal as a viable choice even when Cycles2 pointed things out.
Sorry but I think some push back against Tekton is sadly becoming necessary on Audiogon - not because Tekton isn’t a great speaker but because it isn’t the the ONLY great speaker. I suspect I am not the only one tired of this....
Yes shadorne I did read it and feel you made a very valid point re: the Focal opportunity. I heard Focals once at SR’s development center and was impressed and also at an RMAF with a similarly positive impression.
My comment was aimed at what I see to be exclusion/dismissal of options other than those chosen by ourselves, your posts on this thread being a notable exception to a strong proclivity in that area (my opinion).
I am guilty of this also, as is 90+% of those here (almarg being a shining exception IMO), but try not to unfairly disparage other gear in an effort to rationalize my biases . Yet, I find myself becoming more and more frustrated/discouraged with the approach that, it seems to me, is becoming more about puppy love than a mature and experienced selection of gear than is intended to provide years of reliable, long term listening satisfaction and then focusing on the less glamorous task of making that system excel.
I hold no opinion of the Tekton speakers as I have not heard them, nor any other brand that I have no experience with, yet I see thread after thread where fellow audio enthusiasts inquire about recommendations to replace perfectly good gear when no attempt has been made to accommodate their current component nor the room and feel doggedly certain that the new piece will not achieve its potential in that situation any more than the piece that is being kicked to the curb was able to.
I think the time has come that we old timers with systems carefully selected and optimized vs the soup de jour must acknowledge that views and approaches to audio nirvana have changed and thus pick and choose our contributions accordingly, be prepared for our advice to be utterly ignored, or just simply move on.
I have had Paradigm Tributes, Legacy Focus SE, Tekton Double impacts and Goldenear Triton Reference all in the past year. The GE Refs win to my ears hands down and are keepers.
Sorry but I think some push back against Tekton is sadly becoming
necessary on Audiogon - not because Tekton isn’t a great speaker but
because it isn’t the the ONLY great speaker. I suspect I am not the only
one tired of this....
Find a non-working pair of Sound Lab U-2's, send then out for repair at the company (Utah) and you will have deal in sound and price point. Not easy to find, but worthwhile.
@lradderI agree with you 120 percent. I have the rogue cronus magnum ii and sonus faber 2.5 . The rogue really takes a hold of the drivers in these speakers. Magical combo!
What is the rest of your system comprised of? Interested to hear. By the way changed the 12au7 preamp tube to a mullard military grade 4003. What karma !
If you like to use the "normal" direct radiating speakers, I will tell you that it is no point in searching further than the XTZ Divine Alpha. Focals, B&W, Wilson, and the usuals at twice their price would not compete, amp for amp. They are beautiful, sound beautiful, and are extensively tunable to your room an/or liking, and give you option to go crossover active too. If you want dynamic, realistic, big sound, image, soundstage, slam, resolution, timing, phase consistency/coherence etc.. get a Tannoy dual concentric ... in your budget, the Legacy Arden will give you just about everything.
If I were spending $5k on speakers I would setup auditions at Chicago audio shops for 1 day. Drive there, audition with your music and see a little bit of Chicago. If you can swing a budget hotel, stay the night and go back to listen to your favs. If nothing else, you get much closer to the brands and models you like...first hand. No chance of shipping problems and if you plan your trip in an organized way, you will maximize a good number of speakers to hear ie....Audio shop a - three brands, audio shop b- four brands and audio shop c- 2 brands. That could be 10-12 speakers in one day. If you cannot afford the speakers you have listened to and like drive home and look for a good used pair. To me $5k is a little too much to leave to chance for the buying and selling method till you find what you want. It takes too long.. too much can go wrong.
Hey Soundwatts...Glad I'm not alone in the appreciation! In addition, I have a PS Audio NuWave DAC, A Bluesound Vault 2 Streamer/Storage, an Audioquest Niagara 1000 Conditioner, and various Audioquest Cables and Rocket 88 Speaker Cables.
Hi , interesting question . My buddy has a Roque Hera preamp and the same Monoblocs . He was running the Acoustic Zen Adagios . He has Bryston DAC and Transport . He runs the Acoustic Zen Hologram cables . He has more in cables than I do in my whole system . I thought it sounded great , even had enough bass ( but he's not a metal head , like us ). He recently switched back to Dali Halcyon 300 II's and the better JL subs( 5K ) . He has about 3-4 thousand in room treatments and a 5k sound analyzer . He just went to 20 amp outlets and a better power center . The funny thing is he found out his amps were starving for power and now he has too much . We're gonna retube with KT-77's per Rogues recommendation. So even with a ton of stuff and a wad of cash , he's not happy . So watching him and hearing you . Get the Focals , or some other Big Ass Speakers . I have vintage JBL's and they are too crude . I have ZU's and love them , but they are DIFFEENT ! So get some modern speakers with duel 10" power hungry drivers and some big power cords . Spike em and run some quality mid tier speaker cables . And ROCK OUT ! Please post your results , cause big tube mono's are on my want list . And I don't have a Champagne budget . And please people, No Snobs . Best wishes , Mike .
hey buellrider97 great post. i really like the rogues and copland pre so far and feel i got really good prices on them. as for cables i am currently using zu mission i keep looking at all the suggestions and reading. have to say i keep coming back to legacy, revel and focal. have a feeling it is going to be one of those brands there is a pair of legacy signature III fairly near me that are looking pretty good. so much nice stuff out there (wow) but when it comes down to it i just want it to sound good not perfect i once had vtl mono block kt88 amps with an early 1960s mac clone pre (brand gott big) on some 1970s yamaha middle of the line speakers. i was walking through the room and stopped dead in my tracks because i couldnt believe how nice it sounded. not a lot of money in it but just very pleasing. thanks everyone for the suggestion
I'm loving my harbeth c7es3 for 3400 dollars tiger ebony! The sound is amazing and it matches with many amps. Mcintosh amp and preamp sounded great! Rogue cronus magnum ii was good too, but mcintosh was king when we did an a/b comparison. Even my buddy thought they sounded unbelievable with mcintosh. He's ready to consider them for his second system.
If you're wanting speakers with textbook measurements, and all the typical audiophile wow factors, Revel, Focal Utopia, B&W 800s and the like will deliver as good as any.
If you want end game speakers that you won't grow tired of 3 years from now, look toward the British brands such as Spendor, ProAC, and ATC, but consider Vandersteen as well. These speakers don't have the cabinet bedazzling, or over-hyped material buzzwords. What they do have is realistic PRaT and the ability to let you listen for hours with zero fatigue. These brands have the musicality factor that so many others forego in their quest for chest thumping bass and "look what I can do" dynamics.
Focal, Revel, Golden Ear and similar ilk are like a hot and wild girlfriend. They're great fun for a while, but not the ones you want to settle down with for the long haul.
Focal, Revel, Golden Ear and similar ilk are like a hot and wild girlfriend. They’re great fun for a while, but not the ones you want to settle down with for the long haul.
I’ll settle down for the long haul anytime with a hot and wild babe. Same for my Golden Ear Triton Reference.
EDIT: Keep in mind many folks have a different interpretation of exactly how much time (days, weeks, months, years, decades, etc.) the long haul is :) I take it to mean years, not a "life time".
I’ll settle down for the long haul anytime with a hot and wild babe. Same for my Golden Ear Triton Reference.
I really shouldn't have included GE on that list. For me, they don't even fall into the fun category.
I auditioned the GE Triton 1s and found they were more fatiguing than just about any speaker I've heard. My girlfriend plugged her ears before the first song ended. Maybe it was just some weird room anomaly, but that was my experience with a pair driven by a McIntosh amp.
I really shouldn't have included GE on that list. For me, they don't even fall into the fun category.
I auditioned the GE Triton 1s and found they were more fatiguing than just about any speaker I've heard. My girlfriend plugged her ears before the first song ended. Maybe it was just some weird room anomaly, but that was my experience with a pair driven by a McIntosh amp.
That's fair. Don't buy them. Best of luck/times to you and your girlfriend. Presumably the two of you will be together for "the long haul".
Oh golly, this is why I suggested the OP go on an audition trip to hear a range of speakers for himself. Different ears and different gears and different music and personal taste etc etc.
I haven't spent much time with GE Triton Ones but I did audition the Triton 3+ and 2+ extensively and one thing I never heard them sound like was fatiguing. They were also remarkably coherent top to bottom. I once upon a time tried to integrate Maggies and subs, and we listen to mainly big classical/orchestral/piano, and coherency is a MUST in our system. If anything, the Tritons were just a bit sweet on top and over-all slightly forgiving. OTOH, I found the KEF LS50s almost unlistenable so there you go. (I sometimes feel like the only audiogeek in the world who doesn't love these speakers.)
When we started looking for speakers I thought we would end up with Vandersteens, or Focals, or Sonus Fabers, or B&Ws or Alons or anything but Golden Ear Tritons. But we did and we're very happy.
If you want end game speakers that you won’t grow tired of 3 years from now, look toward the British brands such as Spendor, ProAC, and ATC, but consider Vandersteen as well.
I’ve heard that kind of thing often, and I understand it’s usually put forth with the best intentions. But I’ve learned to put no stock in anyone’s claim that some brand of speakers, any brand, are "end game" speakers.
Anyone involved in high end audio for a long time can see that people settle on a wide variety of speakers they may feel as "end game." You get people who found they could only live with Quads, and people who found they could never live happily with Quads. Same goes for Spendor, Harbeth, and any other classic or popular brand one might mention. Plenty of audio forum threads show people settle on widely varying speakers as the most satisfying - that’s why there are horn devotees, panel devotees, lowther devotees, higher order crossover devotees, low order, it goes on and on.
There’s just no reason to expect some brand of speaker will be particularly satisfying and "end game" for other folks.
I was quite hyped on Harbeth, for instance, which are so often touted as "end game" "get off the merry-go-round" speakers. I read all the reviews, really enjoyed when I heard them at shows etc, and ended up with the SuperHL5Plus. It was a very nice speaker, but I sold it within a month or two because I realized it just wasn’t doing all the things I desire in a speaker, and that my Thiels did everything, to my ears, in a more satisfying manner.
This is not at all to knock people's speaker endorsements. I thrive on hearing what other people love about a speaker like anyone else, and it can help guide me towards new gear. It’s just that the "end game" speaker moniker has been a little pet peeve of mine simply because in any practical sense, it’s just not very predictive.
Well, from the patterns I've noticed, more listeners end their search and upgraditis with the British monitor brands and Vandys.
Of course it's all personal, and everyone here is tooting the horns of their favorite brands. I simply jumped on that wagon, not unlike the Focal, Revel, and Golden Ear fanboys.
Hey Dragonbutzz , additional thoughts. I had Zu cables . I went to Anti-Cables and now have Morrow . Like them both over Zu. Also had the lower priced Zu power cords. Then ran Pangea and now Silnotes . At $100 per cord , the Silnotes are hard to beat . So for budget consider the Silnotes power cords and the Anti-cables Level 3 or Morrow Level 4 speakers . . Also try to audition ( or maybe somebody can chime in on ) Bryston Middle T . They look like what you might want . But I haven't heard them . Big beefy " Meat and Potatoes " speakers . But sound is everything . I do very much like the Acoustic Zen Crescendo , but even used they are expensive . But if I was using the Rogues , I'd avoid built in subs ( but that's my opinion ). With a low power system I'd put the Tritons on a very short list . So that's it for today's ramblings . I just blew up my Dennis Had Inspire and I'm off to Fed-X to ship it off to N.C. for repairs 😫. Too bad your not in Central California, I'd let you try my JBL 4312A's with custom Sound Anchor stands . Regards , Mike.
Always a fan of of floorstanding monsters but Origin Director 108’s changed that, 109’s are going to tested but the company (which created Speakercraft) has engineered the finest architectural in ceiling, in wall speakers Money can buy in 2 short years. So good, the produce Bang and Olufsen’s 107 that run 10k. Currently, I’m moving new 108’s at 1k, 104 at $500 and we will order you any a/v item at 20-50% savings. (Text) 1-950-0143 for anything you planning inside, out, auto and landscaping,
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