For an MM phono stage, such as the one Mike uses, there is no option besides using an outboard SUT or other active gain device ahead of the stage, with a LOMC cartridge. Thus the sensitivity of the EMIA stage to RFI cannot fairly be judged in this case. Maybe Mike is comparing the EMIA devices collectively to the high gain phono section of his DarTZeel (assuming it has one).
What is the “World’s Best Cartridge”?
I believe that a cartridge and a speaker, by far, contribute the most to SQ.
The two transducers in a system.
I bit the bulllet and bought a Lyra Atlas SL for $13K for my Woodsong Garrard 301 with Triplanar SE arm. I use a full function Atma-Sphere MP-1 preamp. My $60K front end. It is certainly, by far, the best I have owned. I read so many comments exclaiming that Lyra as among the best. I had to wait 6 months to get it. But the improvement over my excellent $3K Mayijima Shilabi was spectacular-putting it mildly.
I recently heard a demo of much more pricy system using a $25K cartridge. Seemed to be the most expensive cartridge made. Don’t recall the name.
For sure, the amount of detail was something I never heard. To hear a timpani sound like the real thing was incredible. And so much more!
This got me thinking of what could be possible with a different kind of cartridge than a moving coil. That is, a moving iron.
I have heard so much about the late Decca London Reference. A MI and a very different take from a MC. Could it be better? The World’s Best? No longer made.
However Grado has been making MI cartridges for decades. Even though they hold the patent for the MC. Recently, Grado came out with their assault on “The World’s Best”. At least their best effort. At $12K the Epoch 3. I bought one and have been using it now for about two weeks replacing my Lyra. There is no question that the Atlas SL is a fabulous cartridge. But the Epoch is even better. Overall, it’s SQ is the closest to real I have heard. To begin, putting the stylus down on the run in grove there is dead silence. As well as the groves between cuts. This silence is indicative of the purity of the music content. Everything I have read about it is true. IME, the comment of one reviewer, “The World’s Best”, may be true.
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I was surprised at how much better things got when I went balanced. One of the goals of balanced operation is to eliminate interconnect cable interactions and it does that quite well.
SUTs can't pass the RFI that is generated by a LOMC cartridge (its an interaction of inductance in parallel with capacitance that makes the RFI). This suggests that the preamp is sensitive to RFI and so sounds better when its been filtered out. If the preamp isn't sensitive to RFI then the SUT won't bring anything to the table (other than possibly lower noise).
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Once you start creating Frankenstein cartridges, by changing or modifying cantilevers, styli, coils, suspension, bodies, etc, then opinions regarding the net SQ are even more useless than otherwise, not to say that comparing OEM cartridges without respect to different tonearms, turntables, amplification, speakers, rooms, listeners, is a worthwhile pursuit, beyond expressions of love, meh-ness, or hate. |
Having about a dozen upper-line MC’s I rotate among, I can for sure say that some are particularly hot or cold (or chameleon-like, or Jekyll & Hyde, etc) depending on what gear they’re mated to. But here turntable and speakers remain constant; even the tonearm is usually constant now as I’ve settled on the 2nd FR64fx as my "sandbox" arm. But some cartridges have been particularly sensitive to SUT pairing first, and then preamp & amplifier second. Even tube rolling selections can affect this:
Then there are cartridges which seem quite happily situated in MOST system configurations I’ve tried them in. Of course proper matching can still take them further, but you’re less likely to have a disappointment here. To me, these include: There are endless variables to cartridge use cases, and endless variability in user preferences, which is why these discussions are similarly endless... |
@pindac That's very interesting. You may have gathered I'm wedded to my London Deccas, but I know I must be prepared for their demise and unrepairablity after John Wright retires at the end of this month. The Kontrapunkt C has been a welcome surprise when taken out of my stash of older cartridges, and while I had thought I would replace it with something like a Cadenza Black when the stylus goes, I'm now thinking I might be better off sending it for a re-tip to VAS or Soundsmith. I can see myself getting very comfortable with it: when you keep equipment a long time because it suits you, your tastes change to align with what you hear. It's like a comfortable pair of well-worn shoes, where both shoe and foot adapt to each other. You get to a point where your system, which may not be the objective best around, still sounds 'right' to you. I think this is rather desirable to a pragmatic audiophile, as it gets you off the treadmill of constant upgrades and dissatisfaction, and lets you get to the point where you are happy with (and a little proud of) what you have, and you can settle down to listening to the music, not the equipment. |
@dogberry I am wed to the Ortofon Brand as a Cartridge, even though over the past few years, I have been able to have certain Ortofon Cart's compared to a few other Brands, using the opportunities as made available to attempt to define where the separations are through the using the differing design intents and technologies. This same experimentation through listening within the Ortofon range only, has also been given a fair amount of time allocation, to learn where there are differences to found between various Cart's from different Marketing Levels. The Windfeld and Vienna have been the Benchmark used on a Bespoke Design Tonearm. The Kontrapunkt B in original guise, is owned between a selection of individuals within my HiFi Group and there are redesign / rebuild variants of the K'b as well. My experience of the K'b in use is quite regular and I have heard it on various Tonearms in various systems, as well as having it demonstrated on the same system in comparison to a selection of other Cart's. I have learned from this that if the Arm/Cart' are correctly matched, there are still variables in the impression made from a replay. It could be claimed that the differences in devices used within a system can be responsible for this, and I won't stand in the way of such a pattern of thought, it is one that is presented in many discussions seen. My encounters and following assessments lead myself to a different approach of thought, I am convinced the K'b is a not too attractive Cart' when used on certain Designs for a Tonearms and can be underwhelming, even though replaying the music in a manner that can be enjoyed. The K'b is a Jekyll and Hide, as when used on another Design of Tonearm, the Design is quite capable of excelling, and becoming very attractive in use. When partnered with a Tonearm of a certain design, the K'b has proven itself to compare very favourably to much more expensive Brand family members, leaving not too much amiss in the comparative performances. It is the experiencing of the above, that has led me to adopt the thought, where the Trinity of Ancillaries required for Vinyl LP Replay, i.e, TT>Tonearm>Cart' will be with an obvious weakness if the Tonearm is not able to allow the Cart' to perform at its optimum. It is also the experiencing of the above, that has led me to be quite sure that my there are Downstream Devices underperforming as a result of not being sent a Signal from an optimised interface upstream. The Redesign / Rebuilt Cart' inquired about in use, has a Boron Cantilever and FGS Styli. This has been a method used by Cadenza Black owners wiith a very good follow up report. I would also believe the technician gave the under the hood of the K'b a little bit of their special attention, even if only a thorough clean. My K'b redesign / rebuild is a little more advanced in ideas, as it has a upgraded internal from the upper range of Ortofon, with a FSE and WRD used as well. It also veers from materials usually selected by Ortofon, as it has a Beryllium Cantilever and Ogura Vital S+ Styli. I have heard much of the Ortofon Family since the release of the Models from the Millenium and onwards, of which a selection has been heard in systems that are very familiar. I have yet to hear a Ortofon with detail retrieval like the rebuilt one I am using, and am not too sure if any Ortofon Model I have listened to in a familiar set up, has shown it a clean set of heals, more like the differences detected is a different sprinkle of seasoning. My gut feeling is that if Aucurum was the coil material on my rebuilt K'b, it would be without doubt, out there with the best. Aucurum is my next line of investigation and I do have a rebuild designed and to be carried out on a Cadenza Black Donor Cart' for this reason.
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fundamentally using an SUT potentially brings a musical touch, inner artistic view and envelopment that high gain phono preamps such as the darTZeel can’t quite do in the same way. this effect varies with actual execution of the phono and SUT. my experience is that the silver wound EMIA phono and SUT is very special in this regard. but hard to make an objective case.....it’s purely experiential. like......music. certainly the best high gain phono’s have their own attributes which i enjoy when i choose to use that approach. it’s good to have that choice. |
Dear @mikelavigne : Thank's. I already knew all what you posted and I can see you don't have answer about the differences between all that longng travdel of the cartridge signal inside the Phono Corrector + SUT + Dartzeel line preampg agains t what I posted:
" your Dartzeel is a high gain active phonolinepreamp: CONNECT THE CARTRIDGE SIGNAL USING ONLY ONE IC CABLE nothing added to preserve the cartridge signal integrity at to stays nearer and truer to the recording. " I don't question what you like beut I'm severely questioning not only those LFD items but those tubes and SUTs vs the great direct exceptional Dartzeel SS linepreamp. I don't care what the other wbf gentlemans say on all their congrutalations to you and what they are listening through those LFD cables. I care only about you and that severe change you did it from pure SS high gain active unit to separated tubes RIAA + SUT + a line preamp. That's what does not makes sense to me: why return to the past instead to follow with the best proved today technology that degrades the less the cartridge signal, no matters what? Yes, it is what you like and obviously is up to you. But this followed saying something wrong is down there: "is unique to that particular place and beyond my understanding. " The key word in your statement is that you don't care about and me from the outside just like to understand the whole issues that LFD Mick and EMIA just " dead silence " and is obvious their silence because you are very good customer. Thank's again for your patience and answers .
R.
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" Is the Kontrapunkt B, the ’World's Best Cartridge’ ? Was the Kontrapunkt B, in its modified guise, the Best Cartridge heard in an individual’s World on the day of the event, for a proportion of the attendee’s, it is a possibility this was the case, if stimulus produced was the basis for the judgement." You make me smile. I'd like to know about the modifications involved. I have not heard a 'B' but have a 'C' which was just above it in the Ortofon range in those days. Maybe we are all listening to little differences and there isn't any great difference to be heard once you get beyond a certain point in cartridge build quality? I imagine we have all had one of those wonderful experiences where you suddenly hear something so much better that it changes the way you do things thereafter? But once you have got there, are there further similar revelations or are we quibbling about the chauvinism of small distinctions? If ten of us sat listening to the same system with the best Lyra, Ortofon, Soundsmith, DA Audio, DaVa, AT, Dynavector, Clearaudio (add your favourite) carts, would our preference just be individual and not generally reproducible? And if we knew that such results were not to be generalised among all listeners, we would simply be happy with what we liked and not feel the need to impose our preferences on others. That sounds like hi-fi heaven to me! |
the answer for the ’PC’ meaning Phono Corrector’ is the same as my other answer, but it involves a little more detail to describe my evolution. step one for me was my first ’exotic’ LFD din<->phono cable i used on my CS Port tt and linear tracking arm. next i added an LFD Raptor between my CS Port phono and my darTZeel preamp. and i was using a short set of rca i.c.’s provided by Dave Slagle between the EMIA SUT’s and the CS Port phono. these short (18") interconnects were spec’d by Dave to work in that spot. the tech for this short SUT <-> PHONO cable is unique to that particular place and beyond my understanding. next i added a second LFD din<->phono for a second arm. everything else the same. next i switched from the CS Port phono (which had three inputs) to the EMIA Phono Corrector. but this also created a temporary problem since the Phono Corrector only had one input. i was having an MC Trio built with three inputs, but first i had to determine the SUT values for the Trio, and especially for the DaVa this was a challenge. had to wait for it to arrive then experiment with different SUT’s. we did figure that out and the MC Trio was built arriving in August. so i had 3 arms, but only two LFD phono cables, and one LFD set of Raptor rca’s. this is when i acquired the LFD dongle. the dongle is a short 11" long contraption that overcomes the limitation of the 5 pin DIN connection which is a limitation of the din<->rca phono cables. the dongle breaks all the rules and actually uses tubes of metal instead of wire, and is very stiff. the last pages of that LFD thread do talk about the dongle and show pictures. to use the dongle i had to add the LFD Raptor interconnects to it. which left me without a LFD cable between the Phono Corrector and the dart pre. the idea being that the phono cables were orders of magnitude more significant than the interconnect between the phono pre and dart pre. i wanted tip top phono cables first and foremost. so i’m hearing all three cartridges and arms at their best. it did turn out that the dongle + Raptor was the best phono cable. we did some cartridge switching to verify that. more dynamics and space from the dongle/Raptor. temporarily i used a set of inexpensive but highly regarded interconnects; https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FRBTBVF?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details meanwhile, i had a friend of mine build me a set of 1.5m ’skunkworks’ rca interconnects which i now have been listening for 10 days which are much better. i’m about to switch the cheap set back in to see the difference. my reasoning for not replacing the LFD Raptor with another is two fold. first, another Raptor is very expensive, and second, i would need to wait at least a year to get one. hoping my friends handwork will suffice. my impressions are very positive.....but in any case it’s an even playing field for all three tonearms/phono cables. |
What is the 'World's Best Synergy' ? There is no doubt that very few Individuals, whether a Commercial Retailer or an Enthusiast User, are using the same System Components and Supporting Ancillaries. Take this further and include the variations in methods used to Support Components and the Unique Environment the System is set up in, it all adds up to each individual making a commentary on value given to a Component, Ancillary, or complete System, all have a very unique interaction with it, which will be interpreted in a way that is with limitations. The information that is usually offered and most commonly evident, is where the most valued impression made was recollected. When considering the above, it puts in place, that in general each individual, will have developed preferences based on their Unique Encounters of a HiFi System. The Presentation that is on offer, will be assessed against the attraction to the ed a Stimulus produced within themselves. If a person desires to reinforce their findings by investigating the design parameters for a product that has made an impression, that is quite different to the stimulation of the senses that has been pursued through receiving a demonstration. The rating of value given to a device, ancillary or overall system, is usually derived from the stimulation created through the listening experience only. _____________________________________________________________ The following description is supplied by a forum member, who has without their obvious endorsement, have willingly or unwillingly, recently been elevated to an Exalted Level by another, in relation to the idea, they are above the regular contributors in the Technical Expertise for the usage of a HiFi System. What the following does demonstrate, is that the methods selected and being prompted to be discussed, are not usual selections being made for ancillaries used to connect components to produce a HiFi System. The choices are seemingly thought of as unusual, especially as there is a selection of choices made, that are veering away from what might be considered a regular thought on such a practice. ______________________________________________________________ I read the thread on WBF via the URL provided by Mike. He started the thread in mid-2020, and I read it up to about mid-2021, but posts continue to the present. As of where I left off, Mike owned two of these expensive LFD cables. One is a phono cable terminated at one end with a DIN plug. To quote Mike on WBF, "the LFD phono is from the CS Port turntable to the EMIA silver SUT; the SUT is connected to the MM input on the CS Port phono with 18" special interconnects provided by Dave Slagle..." Mike is using the second cable, which is a conventional IC as follows: "the LFD RCA interconnects are from the CS Port phono to the dart [DarTZeel] preamp." As of where I left off, apparently Mike had acquired a second phono cable for his Saskia. (Mike, sorry to speak of you as if you in the third person. Please correct me if I've got it wrong.) It would never have occurred to me that the road to cable Nirvana would be found by combining many strands of wire of different gauges and different shapes (ribbon AND round cross-section) and even different compositions (one strand seems to be copper sheathed in silver; the rest of the strands are pure silver). "I don't know how to rationalize it, but I don't argue with listening tests". I think Mike and others on WBF are just as surprised at the results. ______________________________________________________________ What is the 'World's Best Synergy' ? The one that any individual, albeit, Professional, Enthusiast or Casually Interested, in any aspect of replaying recorded music decides is best for them. It is easy to create preconceived perceptions and get surprises when the unusual delivers the goods. I have been undoing such a limiting outlook for too many years, I certainly am not feeling any constraints, an open mind is present for all that is to be experienced.
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I read the thread on WBF via the URL provided by Mike. He started the thread in mid-2020, and I read it up to about mid-2021, but posts continue to the present. As of where I left off, Mike owned two of these expensive LFD cables. One is a phono cable terminated at one end with a DIN plug. To quote Mike on WBF, "the LFD phono is from the CS Port turntable to the EMIA silver SUT; the SUT is connected to the MM input on the CS Port phono with 18" special interconnects provided by Dave Slagle..." Mike is using the second cable, which is a conventional IC as follows: "the LFD RCA interconnects are from the CS Port phono to the dart [DarTZeel] preamp." As of where I left off, apparently Mike had acquired a second phono cable for his Saskia. (Mike, sorry to speak of you as if you in the third person. Please correct me if I've got it wrong.) It would never have occurred to me that the road to cable Nirvana would be found by combining many strands of wire of different gauges and different shapes (ribbon AND round cross-section) and even different compositions (one strand seems to be copper sheathed in silver; the rest of the strands are pure silver). I don't know how to rationalize it, but I don't argue with listening tests. I think Mike and others on WBF are just as surprised at the results. |
Dear @mikelavigne : Thank's for your patience and appreciated, almost we all here ( at least me. ) are learning about.
Btw, PC means Phono Corrector that's where at its output ( very specific place. ) you have a non LFD cable and from there my " wondering " with. The knowledge technical audiophiles here as @terry9 @atmasphere @mijostyn @lewm @larryi @mulveling and some others can have good ideas what's happening down there with those cables and with the Phono Corrector and SUTs.
Maybe not, I don't know. Now, somewhere Dr. Bews should has very precise/accurated answers along his measurements as foundation of those. What makes me that I had and have some " suspicion " was the Mick answer when that wbf audiophile asked for measures and he respond: " the proof is in the listening ".
R.
R. |
On to the next wildly debated Topic. What is the 'World's Best Synergy' ? How can one ancillary be instrumental in elevating another ancillary, to be seen to be better than the sum of the parts. Again, no measurements available, the evaluations derive from the varied views on how the Stimulus of the experience shaped one's perceptions and influenced an attraction or repulsion toward the parts in use. Again, each to their own, in relation to what is their preferences. |
i’m not qualified to judge the tech of LFD cables (Dr. Richard Bews) other than what my ears tell me. for those curious about what Raul is referring to here is a thread with information about them. in that thread are references to Be Yamamura and Dr. Hawksford who Richard Bews studied with. are those guys right? or way off base? who knows? unanswerable. all i can say is i hear the most coherent, top to bottom balanced, and micro-dynamically alive, musical presentation of any cables i have heard. very sonorous yet agile sounding. are they perfect? don’t know. Raul; i assume when you use the term ’PC’ you are referring to a personal computer...digital? right. not sure my Wadax server/dac might be confused with a personal computer?😀 why did i not use the LFD cables there? simple; my view is that while my digital uses normal line level, cartridges are dealing with much more delicate signals, .2 to .5 mv, and the cables are much more important and so i invested more there. not that my interconnects for my digital are cheap, just not quite as exotic. plus LFD cables are hard to acquire as they are all hand made by Dr. Bews and might be back-ordered a year or more. the few that have heard or owned LFD cables are quite broadly impressed with them. btw; i will respond to your thoughtful earlier post when i get a chance. |
Dear friends: and btw. I wonder 2 things and maybe some of you ( mijos. lewm or some one else. ) could help:
first is how the LFD manufacturer been totally sure that in their cables that comes with 6 signal sources where in each wire source the shape/geometry is different as is the builded material choosed and in the time domain those 6 signals arrives accurately at the absolute same time with out a micro/nano sg. time delay? I wonder about.
My other wondering that maybe only Mike/the owner can now are the reasons or reason to he decided that the LFD cable is not good enough to been at the output of his PC where he choosed for a different cable. Obviously I have not any explantion or hypotesis about.
Just curiosity because all ththat scenarion gaves him the answer for the best cartridges. Thank's
R. |
A friend has been an exhibitor at a Public attended HiFi show on the weekend past. They presented a HiFi System based on their own very unique Preferences. This system was using the Vinyl LP as the Source and was presented in a setting where 40 Hotel Rooms were fully booked to have a Non-Commercial event, where Enthusiast and Professional Systems set up for demonstrations to a ’migrant between rooms audience’ of approx’ 500 Public Attendees, of which most will be keen for the use of a HiFi System. Sytems values are ranging between a Few Thousand ££’s into the £100 000+ The system I am referring to is a Technics SP10 MkII with owner modifications carried out the electronic function. The TT is mounted in a Panzerholz Plinth with a built from scratch own design Tonearm>Cartridge -Bespoke Rebuild of a Ortofon Kontrapunkt B. This was interfacing downstream with a Bespoke DIY Built Balanced Head Amp>Bespoke DIY Built Balanced Phonostage> Bespoke Built DIY Balanced Pre-Amp>Bespoke Built Power Amp>Bespoke Built Speakers. From the after-show murmuring, and that I have seen this system put in an image recorded on a Web Site that is a recognised review site, I can only assume the Journalist was sharing similar impression as to what the murmurings are sharing, this was a very good presentation and able to hold attendees in the room for extended periods. It seems from a description given directly to me, that one well-heeled room attendee, who had made it known, that they have invested substantial monies in a Vinyl based system, was struggling to comprehend the quality on offer from the Kontrapunkt B, when used in the system being demonstrated, it was genuinely a mind boggle to them. Is the experience able to be reciprocated if the K’b was extracted and put into the well-heeled owner’s system, who knows? No measurements taken at this event, just numerous individuals freely roaming and assessing, with their senses guiding them, as a result of the external stimulus being encountered. Naysayers with advance knowledge of this system, will have been quite likely to have written it off, as an exhibit not worth making time for. From the after-show murmurings, I would suggest, both Naysayers and the Inquisitive were treated to something quite special, and very much able to produce an indelible memory. I feel very confident it is stimulus, that is the fundamental energy produces that drives a continued interest in having a readily available access to a HiFi system. At a event like the one referred to, the exhibitors and attendees are actively seeking out a stimulant to the senses en-masse. Measurements are one aspect and without them, there will not be HiFi as such, but in general, measurements are left to the design side, and are not sought by the mass of product users. Is the Kontrapunkt B, the ’World's Best Cartridge’ ? Was the Kontrapunkt B, in its modified guise, the Best Cartridge heard in an individual’s World on the day of the event, for a proportion of the attendee’s, it is a possibility this was the case, if stimulus produced was the basis for the judgement.
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Dear @mikelavigne : " " tell us about your listening opinions. all the other is noise and nonsense. "
If you ask for the " best cartridge " I already posted twice my opinion and about the Dava I never listen to it. As you could think by my posts I’m wondering from whre that " I like it " in your posts came in . Mike for so many years that I can’t remember we were and are audio friends where normally we are in agreement, not always but at least 85% of the time and I’m really worried that this time we are in absolut disagreement inside a hot dialogue in a way critic/important audio issues. Due to all those and like I just posted to frogman:
" no one can’t questioning that personal preference but what I can do is to analyze the overall scenario/context room/system from where is developed that " I like it ".
Things are that I did it and I’m not telling I’m rigth and only will describe some " facts " that I found out and along your self special MUSIC reproduction priorities/preferences could explain some " things ". I have to tell you that this is the same " road "/proccess that I follow with any other audiophile trying to understand their opinions on first hand audio subject experiences but been you I take care very carefully my " research ".
The premises that founds my proccess are ( everything the same. ): - the shortest signal path the better - the lower/less joints and connectors the better. Joints is a non desirable interruption to the signal flows. - with phono stages: the inverse RIAA eq. lower FR deviation the better. - whit phono stages: the lower noise level the better as the widest FR bandwindth. - the lower output impedance the better - specs are important and if shows measurements the better. - any additional " item " to a direct path of the signal means signal degradation.
Other than that premises/targets for me only could means: lost of signal integrity and added modulations: this modulations means " distortions, noise, colorations. " All those is what I try to follow in my room/system too. This is me.
Well these is what I found out that surrounds the cartridge signal under discussion:
In your system you have the analog rig that fullfil in excellent conditions my targets that are different from yours as mines are different from other gentlemans too. Each one of us are unique in those regards. However you choosed and like a lot this one:
the cartridge signal travels inside the tonearm wires as is in any tonearm and at the tonearm output that signal is connected to an " enhancer/dongle " with one female/male connectors and joints at either extreme ( 12 " in length . ). From here the signal goes to the IC phono cable that according with the LFD designer/manufacturer inside are:
" The cable is a twisted pair and not a coaxial cable with outer screen however it pretty unconventional cable in that the hot and cold conductors are different to each other unlike conventional cables, in that the hot and cold conductors formed from either silver copper, amorphous, and pure solid silver ribbons basically there are six different materials for the hot and cold conductors. The rings are for mechanical dampening and do not carry any networks. The plugs are all custom made for each particular cable and compliment the sonic characteristic of each cable design. A combination of different numbers and sizes of conductors enabled the sound to be enhanced significantly over the use of single conductors ( HE DIT NOT SHOWS IN ANY WAY FROM WHERE CAME THAT LAST STATEMENT ENHANCED SUPERIORITY TO ONE SINGLE CONDUCTOR. ). Some of the LFD cables incorporate enhancers internally, and sometimes use different conductors between enhancers . " he continue: " which is designed to improve the sound..... One major improvement that is achieved by the enhancer is the significant reduction of grain. " IMHO DOES NOT EXIST ANY SINGLE SIGNAL " ENHANCER " DUE THAT ANY ADDITIONAL ITEM TO THE SIGNAL PATH DEVELOSP MODULATIONS THAT GOES AGAINST WHAT IS IN THE LP GROOVES. In the other side he said reduction of grain with out explain how that could happens with out signal lost how that dongle can distinguish between signal musical information and grain ! ! ? ?.
Yes, does not exist any single spec/measure information for the cable or for the dongle. An audiophile asked him: " "" That is how does one arrive at the choice of various thicknesses? Why does the negative have so much more wire than the positive? What are the capacitance measurements pre and post dongle insertion? What materials are preferred and why? What governs choice of dongle length? Does the dongle preserve shielding if the preceding interconnects are also shielded? What is the inductance pre / post dongle insertion? Is the dongle behaving as a filter - if so what frequencies is it acting on? Is a dongle universal or only suited to specific components for which it is designed electrically? "
The manufacturer response was: " The proof comes from the listening " and they made " thousands of listening sessions.
In this first cable/dongle where the signal pass through exist at least 9 joints against normally 4 joints in any other IC cable.
Well the signal path continue is travel and is connected to a Phono Corrector by EMIA that’s a tube unit with a inverse RIAA eq. designed with silver inductors instead capacitors. The input signal instead the input connector stays soldered directly to the circuit board adds more joints using a cable in between. Can we ask for RIAA specs or noise level , etc, etc.? yes we can but does not exist information about. Now and through a different cable the signal goes to a SUT with silver transformers to achieve the necessary gain to be handled for a line preamp. This is what the designr posted somewhere: "" nickel output transformers with over a mile of silver in them. "
Yes, the cartridge signal travels for a way long path.
From the SUT the signal goes through a LFD cable to the line preamp where that cartridge signal ends this totuose path. This linepreamp is part of the Dartzeel you own and where you have all specs we need and where we can see inside the unit that the designer , as other today top electronics designers/manufacturrs, choosed SMD devices for a way short signal path. What am I using in my system? exactly the same you can do because your Dartzeel is a high gain active phonolinepreamp: CONNECT THE CARTRIDGE SIGNAL USING ONLY ONE IC CABLE nothing added to preserve the cartridge signal integrity at to stays nearer and truer to the recording. Well that’s my targets and the way I listen cartridges in my system.
Maybe as you said what I posted has no sense for you but only for me. I still am your audio friend trying to help even that you don’t asked for.
R.
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@mijostyn this just goes to show that reviews don’t tell you anything. It’s a different story when the Ortofon chief designer reluctantly goes on camera mentioning occasional tracking problems with Anna. This is what I experienced and to some extend still experience even after two repair / upgrade trips to Ortofon, taking the better part of a year and costing €3500. Let’s just say I’ve had better customer journeys. Sonically the Anna is one of the best cartridges I’ve experienced, but unfortunately the tracking capabilities are just mediocre. After all the trouble I’ve decided to accept this, but the Anna spec sheet is optimistic to say the least. |
@atmasphere , It was mounted in a Schroder Reference. I did not hear it miss track. Nothing we played was that challenging. Peter himself admits the cartridge can't handle the highest velocities but he also says the cartridge is particularly kind to the grooves playing lacquers repeatedly without hurting them. I should also add there is the factor of buying a dedicated interface making it a system unto itself. Whatever the reason my instinct decided not to go with it. I also had a bad experience with Sao Win's cartridge back in the early 80's but I think I factored that out of my decision making. |
@edgewear , wow, lay of the defensive stuff. Your Anna has been through the ringer and I would think you would want to know if it was performing normally. Not one review I read of the Anna Diamond mentioned tracking problems. But, I have purchased clinker cartridges before, just not $10,000 ones😬 |
Nice description of the kinship of the Ortofon Generations. Not to be a challenge, but I have heard the Vienna, which has a controlled but noticeable Bass Presence compared to the K'b. I perceived the Windfeld as have an increased Tone in comparison to the Vienna, the Windfeld seemed to have underpinned the attractive Vienna. The A90 I have heard on an unfamiliar system and had this in my mind as a Lean Racehorse, but still to my liking. I like Ortofon, these Cart's in their Trickle-Down Technology Guises, meet my needs. The Older TOTR items are proven to myself to be very attractive too, but not being pursued, I have found my level of being contented. |
I actually owned a Kontrapunkt c, and am sorry I sold it. Loved that cartridge. It’s analogous to Cadenza Bronze in the modern line - which I also have - and in many ways I think the Kontra c was more fun (though they’re a lot alike). Even preferred the "c" over its big brother Jubilee, which was predecessor to the Cadenza Black. The Jubilee was a bit sterile. The Kontra c and Bronze have a warmth and body that seems to be missing to various degrees from the upper line (Jubilee, Windfeld, Windfeld Ti). A90 is my favorite Ortofon so far, though. |
mulveling wrote: "Even much lower line cartridges like Kontrapunkts..." Careful, lad, I'm listening to a 500 hour Kontrapunkt C and thinking it is uncomfortably close to what I like about the London Decca Reference. That alone makes me think Ortofon have some idea of what they are about. Unlike some cartridge manufacturers. The Kontrapunkt C is akin to the Cadenza Black in modern speak. |
@mijostyn LPs can survive mistracking and I agree mistracking is very annoying. I'm torn over the Soundsmith thing, since on the one hand I've heard it track extremely well (IOW not a concern at all); its clearly tonearm dependent as are all cartridges. So I suspect he didn't have it set up on the ideal arm when you heard it, which strikes me as a bit odd. I'm not going to speculate further... |
I've lusted a bit after the Hyperion from SS, and have a Sussurro MkII which is the cartridge just below the Hyperion in that product line. I find it like the Grado Statement 3 - honest, thorough but unexciting. I won't bore everyone again by recounting my purchases of all the MI carts I could find when looking for a replacement for my Deccas. I'm coming to the conclusion that the involvement/excitement that comes from the Deccas is either a very discreet but addictive distortion they impose on the music, or maybe some subtle improvement in timing and responsiveness that makes them seem so real. I doubt if such can be measured, but my ear discerns it. The cantileverless technology of the Deccas is about to become extinct as John Wright retires with no successor, and the company that made the armatures is no more. I'm hopeful the reduced moving mass designs relying on a strain gauge or an optical detector will simulate the agility, responsiveness and liveliness of the Deccas. |
@mulveling , Mr Matsudaira calls it SH-uX, a high flux-high permeability armature material. I have no idea what this means but his cartridges are renown for high output voltages in spite of having very low internal impedances. All I can say for sure is that he makes a beautifully crafted, great sounding cartridge that anyone can buy with confidence. As for the MC Diamond's spec, who knows? Maybe it's a typo or the humidity was really high the day they did the testing. Ortofon is very conservative with their specs. On their web site the MC Diamond's channel balance is within 0.5 dB and separation at 15 kHz 20 db , at 1kHz 25 dB. I would bet at 1kHz it will be more like 35 dB. I will measure it for sure. Whatever the old Anna Diamond was universally liked and Ortofon rarely goes backwards. The Verismo is robably a better value. |
@mijostyn you almost sound like the Ortofon distributor. Their first line of defense was ‘blame it on the set up’. Yeah right, I’ve got 40 cartridges, including ancient ones like Ortofon MC30 and real set up prima donnas like Ikeda 9 or VdH Colibri. None of these exhibit the tracking limitations of the Anna. I know the specs, but they count for nothing. I’ve tried Anna in 5 different tonearms and the issues are consistent in all cases. As said, the new suspension improves things a little, but it still can’t track some of my torture tracks. Perhaps you own the Philips recording of Messiaen’s Quatuor Pour La Fin Du Temps by Reinbert de Leeuw and collegues. It contains some extremely fierce piano and clarinet crescendo’s that all my cartridges can handle, although in a few cases with some distortion. Except for the updated Anna, who still jumps out of these grooves. I hope for you that the new MC Diamond will prove to be a better tracker. |
The MSL's super-high ratio of output voltage to coil impedance seems to be unlike anything else out there. In fact there's nothing even close (besides Air Tight). Definitely intriguing - must be some super efficient combination of armature and magnet structure? The low 15kHz channel separation spec on Ortofon's MC Diamond is interesting - and it's not just the Anna that they've spec'd higher. 20dB is not impressive. Even much lower line cartridges like Kontrapunkts have been spec'd higher! Probably some of the vintage models too. Possibly an admission that measurements take a backseat to subjective sound quality? |
An interesting aside when it comes to styluses. The line contact stylus of the MSL Platinum Signature is really quite special. Unlike other line contact styluses I have looked at, the tip of the MSL stylus is broadly radiused. It's azimuth can actually be off a few degrees and the tracking would not be affected at all. Channel separation would still suffer but not tracking or record wear. I have not had the chance to look at an Air Tight stylus but given the same designer I suspect it is similar. The Air Tights were very popular for a while but it seems you hardly hear about them any more. I do think the Opus 1 is overpriced so, fewer people are willing to shell out for it. It is also interesting to note that in spite of it's rather high voltage output the Platinum Signature's gain is about 5 dB higher in transimpedance mode than in voltage mode. It is also as dynamic as any high output cartridge I have heard in transimpedance mode. What is just as special and the one area where this set up excels over any other I have used in my system is bass definition. Marcus Miller's bass now has almost the same gruf timbre it had at the Blue Note a month ago. I still think the bass could be better but I still have improvements to make in my subwoofer system. |
@atmasphere ,yes, that is the cause of the brightness and I could EQ that easily in the digital realm but the real deal breaker for me was the strain gauge's tracking ability. Peter thinks he has got it as good as he can and feels it is acceptable. Generally I will only look at cartridges that can do 80um or better at 315Hz. Miss-tracking is very annoying. Miss-track a record once and it is permanently damaged. @edgewear , Ortofon is very conservative with it's ratings and list's the MC Diamonds tracking ability at 315 Hz as 80um which is excellent and should easily handle any record. The Replicant 100 and GygerS styluses are the two most severe styluses out there and really have to be spot on in the groove. If you are still miss-tracking it is either a set up problem or just as likely something else you are hearing like phono stage clipping. When I have mine in hand I will run it through the torture course and report back what it can do. Yours should do the same. |
@mikelavigne the name change actually did involve a design change as well. Ortofon’s chief designer is on record explaining about the new suspension of the MC Diamond, using nanotubes or something. In a video interview with Fremer (part of his coverage of the Munich event) he boasts about the enormous improvements or words to that effect. He also says they felt a desire to change the suspension because some owners had experienced tracking issues with the discontinued Anna and Anna Diamond. I’m one such owner and my regular Anna sounded gorgeous but was by far the worst tracker I ever owned. I bought it used and therefore couldn’t be sure what caused the tracking problems. A factory rebuild didn’t solve the issue, so I resent it and after almost a year (!) of waiting they returned it with the new nano suspension installed. Thankfully this has improved the tracking somewhat, although it still doesn’t track everything. FWIW, sonically I don’t hear any difference with the old Anna, but perhaps things will improve after the suspension has settled.
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Dear @frogman : " How many examples of equipment with great measurements that sounded mediocre, even poor, have we all experienced? " your statement was something that happened several years ago but not today, could be everywhere an item that fullfil what you said but you can be sure that’s an exception. I have first hand experiences about measurements and learned what to look for through them and which ones are really important. I learned all those when we manufactured a phonolinepreamp and this was over 10 years ago and even that that phonolinepreamp inside the owners systems today is still competitive and it still is my phonolinepreamp reference that has some modifications over the originals units. In those times we fixed the main targets at different levels of the design and builded needs. We makes several mesuremenst with our tools about and other measurements were made by others because we did not own the Audio Precision as the one used by J.Atkinson in STRPH and guess what: the unit measured really good and excellent in some parameters before we listened to it and when we did it the unit was " rigth on targets " and I can tell you that we were and are extremely demanding MUSIC lovers/audiophiles. At the end we only had to fine tunning it with almost no severe active/passive parts changes. With out those kind of first hand experiences you can’t understand the today measures importance and how read those measures and what are telling you. The amps I own were modified and were measured and are excellent even today and the same I can tell with my speakers and speaker crossover modified too and my tonearm is like the phonolinepreamp " made in home " and excellent too ..Those adjectives were shared by audio friends to me. As I said my subjectivity is well weigthed by objectivity and enjot a lot the MUSIC putting at minimum developed distortions/colorations and yes my real reference is live MUSIC seated at near field position. You can be sure that the MUSIC " color " you like it is not exactly what likes M Lavigne, me or any other gentleman. What you can be sure too is that I always try to finish a dialogue when the other gentleman tells me: " I like it " end of the history because no one can't questioning that personal preference but what I can do is to analyze the overall scenario/context room/system from where is developed that " I like it ".
R.
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@mijostyn To my understanding the Soundsmith Strain Gauge will need some EQ that isn't supplied by the manufacturer. Without that EQ an un-equalized strain gauge will have an EQ error due to that flat spot in the RIAA pre-emphasis curve. So it would cause the cartridge to sound bright. |
@thekong , it is unusual for Ortofon to go backwards. They are also extremely conservative with their specs. At any rate I will find out shortly. @rsf507 , I have only heard my Platinum Signature. The hearsay is that the Gold is slightly warmer than the Platinum. The Platinum should track better but again that is an assumption. What I can say for sure is the quality of construction is absolutely top notch. The diamond is perfectly clear, beautifully polished ( I have a Wallyscope) and tiny. It is 1/2 the size of Soundsmith's OLC stylus which is already quite small. When you play a record it looks like the cantilever is sitting right on the record. These are very low impedance cartridges best used with a transimpedance phono stage even though they have very acceptable output. There is definitely more gain in transimpedance mode and the bass has better definition. |
@mijostyn , can the MC Diamond really be considered as an improvement over the Anna Diamond when the measurements are worst? Just go look up their Channel Separation at 15kHz and Frequency Response figures ! |
@mikelavigne , The MC Diamond has incorporated several improvements from the Verismo the Anna Diamond did not have. It is not the same cartridge. Yes, they did change the name because of Russian aggression as if that has anything to do with an opera singer. The Russians are wonderful people with a unique culture. It is the remaining Soviets that are Fed up. I could understand if the cartridge was named The Stalin. |
@dover , I auditioned the strain gauge at Peter's listening room. He spent two hours with me. I really wanted to like the strain gauge but it was just too sharp on female voices and violins for my taste. The Hyperion is more to my liking. From the Voice upwards Peter makes a great cartridges. You can't go wrong with any of them. The Strain gauge is a unique outlier but it is not an easy nut to crack. My sense is that Peter like's the challenge. He also admits and will tell you that the Hyperion can handle over twice the velocity the strain gauge can tolerate. I listen at 95 dB to material that warrants it. That is quite a bit softer than 100 dB. My hearing, like anyone my age is slightly rolled off on top. I compensate by boosting the treble from 12 kHz up at 6 dB/oct. |
