What is the “World’s Best Cartridge”?

Ralph, thanks. Your corroborating my preliminary hypothesis will save time. Getting the very heavy chassis safely down to my basement workshop is my next problem. I’m hoping that the output tube in question was not damaged. Visual inspection shows that none of the 3 cathode wires is blown. That’s encouraging. There’s a problem in the bias circuit for that one position that’s going to be hard to find, because evidently I did not find it 6 months ago when the exact same problem occurred.

Mijo, as I think you know, my amplifiers are essentially older MA2s with huge EI type power transformers that make them very heavy. I think you’ll be getting toroidal power transformers on your new MA2s. Much lighter.

I have one output tube located in the R front corner of on one monoblock that keeps failing in the red glow death mode. This has happened 3 times over the course of years. But of those 3 incidents, two have occurred in the last 6 months. Last time on the bench, I naturally checked the potentiometer that controls bias and the upstream bias voltage circuit and found no problems. Moreover, it worked for 6 months between then and now. Two nights ago, after a 90-minute listening session, I heard crackling on the R speaker and then saw that the tube in that R front position was glowing red. Plus the CCS tube for the input dual differential cascode stage was also glowing red. (Never saw that before.) If you have a genius idea how the input stage CCS could affect bias on only one of 4 output tubes (7241s), I am all ears. (My guess is these were unrelated events.) But otherwise, I have had no problems with 7241s per se. I bias them conservatively at 400mA each. As you know, my amps permit separate control of bias for each output tube, and maybe that’s why I in general do get away with using the 7241. Sound marvelous.

I apologize for the off-topic post, but Ralph is my guru, and he did ask.

I have used the Audio Technica ART7 (0.12mV output, 12 ohms internal R), the ZYX Universe (0.24mV output, 4 ohms internal R), and the Ortofon MC2000 (.05mV output, 2 ohms internal R) into the BMC MCCI Signature ULN (phew, long name!). The gain structure with the ZYX is fine at 0db setting, with the AT, it blooms at +7db, which is too much for the ZYX. With the MC2000, the jury is out, either 0db or +7db, probably the former. Note that the MC2000, with a voltage output about half of the ART7, in theory it makes much more current than the ART7, because of lower internal R. But then too, the MCCI has a finite input impedance which also is a factor as the internal R of the cartridge approaches, equals, or is lower than the input impedance of the stage. It’s not that the cartridges don’t sound good with the excessive gain setting options; it just becomes overwhelming at some point. That system is out of commission for the moment; I have a tube problem in one of the Atma-sphere monoblocks. It has to go to my workbench for diagnosis. Which is why I cannot yet deliver a verdict on the optimal setting for the MC2000. The MCCI offers 0, +7, +11, and +14db options for gain, if memory serves. You set gain using jumpers inside the chassis, which is a bit of a pain if you’re changing cartridges all the time.

Mijo, I hope you know that my question was not meant to upstage you. I was merely looking for the information you've kindly now provided.  I've hooked up my BMC to three different low output, low internal impedance cartridges, and I can confirm the relationship between impedances and apparent gain.  This is as theory predicts, but still it is quite interesting to me to experience it.

Mijo, does your Seti offer both current- and voltage-mode drive?  Was wondering how you can know, except by guesstimate, that you are getting "6db" more gain from current-drive vs voltage-drive.  Most companies won't list a gain spec for their current mode phono stages, I think because net gain from current output is so dependent upon how the internal impedance of the cartridge interacts with the input impedance of the stage.  However, at the output in both cases you do have a voltage, so that's where you could compare the two types of stage in terms of db output.  The difference between current- and voltage-drive would be different for every cartridge, in this case.

I have signed my tool, too.  I call it "Mr Happy". But I refuse to lacquer it.

To the best of my recollection, The Voice was SS’s first cartridge after they had already marketed the SMMC line , which are basically copies of B&O cartridges. But you may be correct that Sussuro came very soon after Voice.

I think once upon a time there WERE two versions of the Voice, one of which was low output.  There wasn't much difference in cost. Do you REALLY know that the Voice and the Sussuro are exactly alike other than coil windings?  There are at least half a dozen Soundsmith cartridges that now bridge the price gap between the two, so why would PL even need to make them structurally alike?

Although I question the notion that the Sussuro is naught but a low output version of the Voice, and PL probably would too (because Sussuro intro post dates the Voice by several years and because there’s a big price gap between the two populated by several other models) I can see that your preference for the HO cartridges may hold water, given that my very favorite vintage MI cartridges are all HO types. Interesting to note that the recommended load R for Voice is greater than or equal to 47K ohms.

There’s no argument with your direct experience. I am a fan of MI but i don’t own any of the low output types. By now I’m surprised that other owners of Sussuro or other low output SS cartridges haven’t chimed in.

doggie, You did not mention whether you ever went ABOVE 800 ohms for load R.  Into an MM input, the problem may well have been lack of gain, rather than the load resistance.  It would be worthwhile to try a high load resistance, e.g., 47K ohms WITH gain that is sufficient for its very low output (preferably 65db or more but maybe a bit less depending upon the gain of your linestage, if any), if you own a phono stage capable of both.  As you know, MI cartridges are not new.  B&O, Acutex, Nagaoka, Grado, and a few others, not to mention Decca, have been making them for decades.  What is new about some of the SoundSmith models (and the new Grados) is their low output.  Ideally you want a high gain phono stage AND a high load resistance, or much higher than 800 ohms, anyway.  I've gotta believe you could get more out of your Sussuro. 

For whomever it was that was dissatisfied with the Sussuro loaded at 800 ohms, I strongly recommend you try 47K ohms and then move down in increments. It might be that the Sussuro will bloom at higher load resistance. Although it has a low internal resistance (10 ohms, I think) it like all MI types has inductance much higher than an LOMC with similar voltage output and internal R, which also is why it is problematic to match it with any SUT.

I thought we’d agreed not to judge a cartridge by its individual parts list (aluminum cantilever). Anyway, I never before heard of Suzuka or Top Wing, so thanks, Dover. Stanton and Pickering marketed LOMM cartridges many decades ago. There’s nothing new under the sun. I’m glad I still have a virginal Stanton 981LZS.

Raul, I read the Suzuka review. In one sentence, I got the impression these are Low Output Moving Magnets. How else to account for the statement that the stylus is user replaceable? But elsewhere the reviewer states he set capacitance at 300 ohms, which could just be a typo, but one that should have been edited out prior to publication. Alternatively to a LOMM, which seems unlikely, the uniqueness of the cartridge might owe to using a single magnet and coreless coils in an LOMC , but where is the brilliant invention? AT has been making amorphous core LOMCs for a while, which is probably a better idea. The reviewer also suggests that using a coreless coil makes the transduction more efficient, where the opposite is true and probably accounts for the very low output.

Bdp, I owned a Decca London back in the 90s and your synopsis is a good one. Especially comparing it at its best to a horn loudspeaker.

Have you questioned the calibration of your digital attenuators?

Actually, if you look at Mijostyn's syntax, he is not wrong: " In order to fool the human ear you only need a 0.3 dB difference in volume.  "

Literally, this could be construed to mean that, because the human ear canNOT distinguish an SPL difference of 0.3db (because, as Intact Audio stated, 1db is by definition the smallest difference in SPL that can be distinguished by the human ear) then we CAN be fooled by a difference of only 0.3db into thinking there is no difference in SPL between the two respective sources.

I agree with Intact as regards the perceived benefit of increasing SPL when the SQ is very high. If SQ is perceived as poor, increasing SPL makes mediocre SQ less tolerable, in my experience.

As for me, I have no objection to any kind of cartridge, no matter how derived or how modified. My only point was there is little to be learned at a distance from anonymous reports on how cartridges, especially modified ones, sound.

By the way, thanks to Mel Brooks’ movie “Young Frankenstein “, we do know that Frankenstein’s anger apparently was due to his having a brain taken from Abby Normal.

For an MM phono stage, such as the one Mike uses, there is no option besides using an outboard SUT or other active gain device ahead of the stage, with a LOMC cartridge.  Thus the sensitivity of the EMIA stage to RFI cannot fairly be judged in this case.  Maybe Mike is comparing the EMIA devices collectively to the high gain phono section of his DarTZeel (assuming it has one).

Once you start creating Frankenstein cartridges, by changing or modifying cantilevers, styli, coils, suspension, bodies, etc, then opinions regarding the net SQ are even more useless than otherwise, not to say that comparing OEM cartridges without respect to different tonearms, turntables, amplification, speakers, rooms, listeners, is a worthwhile pursuit, beyond expressions of love, meh-ness, or hate.

I read the thread on WBF via the URL provided by Mike.  He started the thread in mid-2020, and I read it up to about mid-2021, but posts continue to the present.  As of where I left off, Mike owned two of these expensive LFD cables.  One is a phono cable terminated at one end with a DIN plug.  To quote Mike on WBF, "the LFD phono is from the CS Port turntable to the EMIA silver SUT; the SUT is connected to the MM input on the CS Port phono with 18" special interconnects provided by Dave Slagle..."  Mike is using the second cable, which is a conventional IC as follows: "the LFD RCA interconnects are from the CS Port phono to the dart [DarTZeel] preamp."  As of where I left off, apparently Mike had acquired a second phono cable for his Saskia.  (Mike, sorry to speak of you as if you in the third person. Please correct me if I've got it wrong.)

It would never have occurred to me that the road to cable Nirvana would be found by combining many strands of wire of different gauges and different shapes (ribbon AND round cross-section) and even different compositions (one strand seems to be copper sheathed in silver; the rest of the strands are pure silver).  I don't know how to rationalize it, but I don't argue with listening tests.  I think Mike and others on WBF are just as surprised at the results.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

I agree with Mijo that there can be no single “best” cartridge, for both objective and subjective reasons, and have said so. So too have many others. And yet this thread goes on,… and on.

Goofy, good idea. My past efforts to do the same were not successful. But I think the actual subject of the OP would prove equally vexing.

Dynavector D series cartridges also have a diamond cantilever, but what was your point?

No argument with Frogman. For me the most astonishing aspect of live music is the transient response and dynamic range, compared to home audio. There’s plenty of “distortion “ in a live club venue due to bad rooms and ambient noises, but the sense of immediacy is riveting. For me therefore, the speakers are of paramount importance. I don’t care if the signal is pure as can be, analog or digital, if the speakers are sluggish all will be lost. I once had a sax player perform in my listening room, standing between a pair of massive ESLs. That was informative.

I think I’ve already said this: CDs and DVDs inevitably bore me. You could say it’s because my Ayre C5Xe-mp CDP isn’t good enough. Top quality LPs kill it. Hi-rez streaming is another matter. That’s where modern digital can shine. But I won’t give up vinyl for streaming because I’ve got so many wonderful LPs, and there’s a certain Zen about playing them that appeals, not to mention the visceral sensation of reality that occasionally occurs. May I be left alone to enjoy? Raul always ends his posts with “enjoy the music “. Yes, do that. Also recognize there are some things that are either unmeasurable or not yet measured.

If you don’t like my not taking a position, is that your final position on my not taking a position? My position is that many LPs are not great sounding but many are great sounding even compared to live music, and we attend live performances once or twice a month both in local clubs and at the Kennedy Center. RBCDs are good for when I want to read a book or as background for a party but there’s no way I can listen to them for long if I’m serious about listening. SACDs and the like are better IF they were recorded as SACDs. So in general the silver discs are a yawn. I don’t have RTR, so that’s out. I believe that hi Res digital streaming may outperform LPs. I’m sure hi-rez streaming measures better if done right. I also own 2500 LPs, so I play them. This is a hobby and a source of personal pleasure, not a military exercise.

Do you understand that I took no position in the statement you’ve quoted? I said the proposition was not resolvable, only. If you think you can “prove” with data the notion that digital is superior, there will always be others who won’t agree. That’s life.

Raul, once again you unfairly presume to know what I think. 

Nandric pointed out that the question posed by the OP is poorly conceived. So did I and others at the top of this thread. Which is maybe why it’s degenerated into an even more endless and unresolvable debate about analog vs digital. By now we know where most of us stand on that issue.  But some of us nevertheless expect to “win”. That’s not going to happen.

I agree. 

An “order of magnitude “ is generally taken to describe a 10-fold difference, so the energy storage advantage of digital over analog is thousands of orders of magnitude, but for the purpose of this thread, who gives a s**t? 

The idea of Raul and Ralph kissing is to say the least, not attractive. 

Even the fruitless discussion of "what is the best cartridge" was more interesting than this banter about digital vs analog.  None of the protagonists is ever going to be dissuaded from his or her point of view, so best to live and let live. However, it's interesting to me that digital is taken as "lossless".  The Holy Grail of digital is certainly lossless-ness, but digital by its very nature can only approach lossless-ness.  Modern hi-rez digital streaming certainly gets very close to that goal or closer than ever before in the history of digital music and perhaps has already exceeded in its lossless-ness our capacity to sense "loss".  At least for some of us. Meantime, analog is lossless by its nature but nevertheless "loses" something due to distortion producing aspects of its methods.

So, what's the best cartridge?

So if digital is now perfect and battery supplies are perfect, who needs the world’s best cartridge? (Sarcasm intended.)

Since a power supply for a coil in a field coil cartridge only has to produce smooth DC, I think, what after all is the difference between a tube power supply and a solid-state power supply for such a device? Is it merely the use of tube rectification? And I guess probably there would be voltage regulation, also done with tubes versus transistors.

Doggie, was joking about having a fragile ego. If you read about Nagaoka cartridges on Raul’s MM thread, the MP50 and 500 were very often referred to as MM types or else without specifying the transducer type. I guess that’s where I picked up my idea that they’re MMs. Right now listening to Monk on Riverside, via my B&O MMC20CL, another great MI cartridge.

If you think the Quad57 is inherently limited, you ought to hear 2 or 3 pairs that have been modified by Dave Slagle and direct driven in unison by a pair of his amplifiers. Plus or minus a subwoofer. To die for.

Doggie, you have delivered a crushing blow to my fragile ego. Based on the English translation from the Japanese, I’d say you and Raul are correct. My interest in Nagaoka just went up a notch.

“Magnet on the cantilever“ is the definition of a moving magnet cartridge. In the other hand, I respect Raul’s fund of knowledge.  Need more evidence.

mglik, Keep in mind that when you "heard" the $25K cartridge, every other piece of gear in that system, which I take it was new to you, was also different from your own rig, not to mention the room itself. Therefore, it is folly to attribute the final result to the cartridge alone. That’s what makes this pursuit so endless. Put that same cartridge in your own system, and you may feel it’s not any better than what you have, which is already top drawer.

Dogberry, You do realize that the Nagaoka MP500 is a MM cartridge, not an MI, and therefore not much like any Grado or Decca, except perhaps in its SQ, which I agree is excellent.  The dirty little secret of cartridges is that excellence is not always proportional to cost.

Raul, in your own experience, what is the best sounding cartridge? Did you hear it in your own system or someone else’s? Thanks.

I like MI cartridges very much.  You might even say I prefer them to MC cartridges, as a group.  Then along comes the crazy Ortofon MC2000 with its vanishingly low voltage output.  It responds well to a current drive input, and it might be my favorite cartridge, ever, used in that context.  But I have never heard your cartridges, except maybe the Atlas at a friend's house.  My point is that if you are searching for the world's best cartridge, cost no object, then my friend you are going to be spending a lot of money, which you already have done.  Be happy you can afford what you have already afforded and enjoy.