What is the “World’s Best Cartridge”?

I second that. There's good information on this forum, but it is often hidden behind a smokescreen of verbiage from a prolix few. I started here in 2007, but was unable re-activate my old account. Things haven't changed much.

I had a customer who was phobic and often listened whilst checking his prostate. He often gave seat of the pants opinions on sound quality. Perhaps you could explain is he listening in analogue or digital ?

How many bits on that digit? 😂

Very interested to read this. I am a moving iron fan, and have a London Decca Jubilee and a Reference. When the Reference went for its final re-tip (the maker is retiring and it is uncertain whether anyone will be able to service these cartridges in future), I decided that rather than just use the Jubilee, I would explore other takes on the MI principle. I bought the little brother of the Epoch 3, the Statement 3, and bore with it for 80 hours. It's a good pickup, but it doesn't excite me the way a Decca does. There's something about not having a cantilever, and taking the signal immediately above the stylus from the Decca's armature that gets the timing just right. I guess it's like comparing a CD player with uncorrected jitter against one that has none (if only!) However, there is a design very similar to the Grado that does an amazing job for less than a third of the price - a Nagaoka MP-500. It is very, very close to the sound of a Decca. And while it is a (relatively) cheap pickup, it ended up costing me - I bought a second SME turntable to make a permanent home for it so I can be more sparing in my use of the Reference when it comes back. If it cannot be serviced again in the future I have to stretch its life out as long as possible. I spent some time swapping cartridges and comparing the above mentioned, and also the Benz Ruby 3 I was using before the Deccas came along, its predecessor the Wood H2, and an Ortofon Kontrapunkt C. I have a clear ranking in my mind about which is best, for me, and so on to the least pleasing. None of these are in the OP's league, but there is hope for us mortals! BTW, I have never had any tracking issues with the Deccas with a damped SME Series V arm.

Both Nagaoka and I must disagree with you about the MM/MI thing. To quote from Nagaoka's website:

The "Nagaoka MP series cartridge", when type number starts with MP, is different from the general MM expression (moving magnet) and has a different MP type (moving permaloy), and the MM expression has a hey magnet on the cantilever. Although instant, the MP expression is more free to move the cantilever than the magnet called the permaloy, what gives a delicate and high output。

I've corrected some spelling errors in the translation from Japanese, but I don't know what was meant by 'a hey magnet'. Nagaoka, Soundsmith and Grado all use a ferrous metal disc or cross mounted on the cantilever immediately inside the suspension grommet, and this moves within the magnetic fields of fixed magnets, and fixed coils. Nagaoka are proud of the kind of ferrous material they use and call it Permalloy, hence the MP designation. See this page for animated illustrations:

https://www.goldring.co.uk/buyersguide

Read the page, for yourself, or here's another quote:

we are producing a moving permaloy method cartridge that can be replaced by a nagaoka development needle。
A lightweight structure with separate cantilevers and magnets, which is a method of magnetizing the permeable material to generate electricity。
Due to the structure without a heavy magnet on the rear end of the cantilever, it is highly compliant with the sound groove and has a positive effect on sound quality。

From https://www.nagaoka.co.jp/product/record.html

It clearly indicates there is a fixed magnet that induces magnetism in the permalloy on the end of the cantilever. This means the heavy magnet need not be moved by the cantilever, only the lightweight ferrous alloy on the cantilever.

I never did get to hear an ESL57, but did the 63, and owned 989s and now have 2905s. I probably don't get the purity of the midrange that the 57s give, but if it's being overlaid by a bit of bass I can live with it!

BTW, I hope your ego is a lot less fragile than you pretend! We all learn new things - I had not come across the cantilever-less Ikeda MC cartridges until I read this thread. I see if I want to risk a couple of thousand dollars on eBay I can try one out, but I'm not so brave or foolish as to do that.

Talking of cantilever-less, an old friend came home today fresh from a rebuild:

I shall get nothing done today except to listen and purr contentedly!

"You would have to be out of your mind to buy a Decca cartridge."

I'll just sit here and drool and twitch!

If you are talking about supposed tracking issues, I have to say I have never had any such problems with either the undamped SME M10 or the damped Series V. I will admit they increase surface noise, and that has inspired me to become fanatical about record cleaning (and that's a good idea anyway as you cannot clean the stylus with anything other than a dry brush). If I outlive my Deccas, the plan is to get a Soundsmith strain gauge as a replacement, unless someone swoops in to continue the business.

Hmm. Just like that my 24p died. Well, not dead, but the left channel is making clicking noises in the Quad 2905 speaker. It's not another panel gone in the speaker as there is no clicking with any other input. Fortunately, I have a line on a barely used Musical Fidelity Nu-Vista Vinyl. So there will be no end of loading options, after I save up again the cost of the phono stage.

I know I'm 1-2 thousand hours from the Deccapocalypse. I'm already thinking about what might come after. Having spent money on a Grado Statement 3 I don't think there's a future there for me. The other game in town is Soundsmith. Reviews are rather sparse, especially of recent versions. I'd love to hear from anyone who owns The Voice MkII, Paua MKII, Sussurro MkII, Hyperion or the strain gauge.

Using the Quad 24p (designed by Tim deParavicini) I can deal with low output cartridges (Paua and up) but the MC input has a fixed impedance of 10Ω, and ≥470Ω is recommended. Obviously, no issue if I go as far as the strain gauge with its own energiser/preamp. If The Voice MkII would make a Decca owner happy, there would be no issue as the 24p's MM input is 47kΩ. There's just no possibility of hearing these before purchase in Nova Scotia, even if I were allowed to leave the house (I'm not: recent bone marrow transplant and little immunity).

It seems my effort at being emollient backfired. I'll bow out.

A predictable outcome for a thread entitled as it is. Among the very few who can purchase the most expensive cartridges, there will still be the same phenomenon we see in lower end contests: people advocate for what they know about. I have eight cartridges in the 3-5k range. I'm happy to push them as being worthy of consideration, but to do so involves considerations of the system they get plugged into, and it all becomes rather meaningless.

If I could afford an SS strain gauge, a DS Audio optical, or an AT tip-sensing cartridge, I'm sure I would learn about the deficiencies of my other components! Since I cannot, I must make do with what I have, and honestly, I'm not disappointed in any way. I know now that my ears cannot hear the refinements that some claim. So I know what is the best cartridge in my world. And really, can anyone say they know what is best in anyone else's world?

Exactly, @rauliruegas , we cannot impose our experience on others. Having read a lot of your input in other threads, I respect your experience, and I'm grateful to read about it. Even so, all of the wonderful things you and I have heard from cartridges of so many kinds might not work for others, We may offer a guiding light, but we cannot lead anyone else safely to harbour.

bdp24 - I like the way you think! Nothing I have heard beats the Reference!

I'll jump in once more. This thread is not about CD vs LP, and any entries of that kind ought to be ignored or deleted.

My opinion is that the new technologies that take the idea of minimising the moving mass on the cantilever are on the right track for ultimate fidelity. I know I'm biased, but the cantileverless Deccas started out in this direction, and the Soundsmith strain gauge and the DS Audio optical cartridges are running with it. The AT Art1000 with the coils right at the distal end of the cantilever is a third approach. It seems to me that only the very best of conventional LOMC pickups might vie with them, but at a much higher price. There is no reason, other than a dislike of losing advertising dollars, why a magazine should not conduct a shootout between these three. I am fairly sure I would not be alone in wanting to read that!

(Yes, it would be better for me to conduct my own comparison, but I'm not made of money and there is no way I could go and hear all three, sadly.)

@rauliruegas  wrote "Btw, today no one and I mean it can trust only in that " listen " that is only subjectivity. We need to be very carefully about and try to analyze the item surrounded facts/characteristics in an objective way. Ears can foolish not only you but any one else including me. Dava did it with you and here two other gentlemans opinions on this specific issue in this thread"

Our listening pleasure is a subjective experience. I am unsure what philosophical underpinnings you propose to justify telling someone their subjective experience is less valid than yours. I’m all for measuring what can be measured, and claims like ’my power cord will make your music 10% better’ that are used to sell nonsense to fools are to be regarded as worthless. But if you tell me you prefer a Guarneri over a Strad, a Fender over a Gibson, how can I say you are wrong just because I have a different taste?

The most any of us can say in response to the question that started this benighted thread is that ’x is the cartridge that pleases me the most of all those that I have heard.’ That is a statement that stands no matter how anything measures.

I've lusted a bit after the Hyperion from SS, and have a Sussurro MkII which is the cartridge just below the Hyperion in that product line. I find it like the Grado Statement 3 - honest, thorough but unexciting. I won't bore everyone again by recounting my purchases of all the MI carts I could find when looking for a replacement for my Deccas. I'm coming to the conclusion that the involvement/excitement that comes from the Deccas is either a very discreet but addictive distortion they impose on the music, or maybe some subtle improvement in timing and responsiveness that makes them seem so real. I doubt if such can be measured, but my ear discerns it.

The cantileverless technology of the Deccas is about to become extinct as John Wright retires with no successor, and the company that made the armatures is no more. I'm hopeful the reduced moving mass designs relying on a strain gauge or an optical detector will simulate the agility, responsiveness and liveliness of the Deccas.

mulveling wrote:

"Even much lower line cartridges like Kontrapunkts..."

Careful, lad, I'm listening to a 500 hour Kontrapunkt C and thinking it is uncomfortably close to what I like about the London Decca Reference. That alone makes me think Ortofon have some idea of what they are about. Unlike some cartridge manufacturers. The Kontrapunkt C is akin to the Cadenza Black in modern speak.

"

Is the Kontrapunkt B, the ’World's Best Cartridge’ ?

Was the Kontrapunkt B, in its modified guise, the Best Cartridge heard in an individual’s World on the day of the event, for a proportion of the attendee’s, it is a possibility this was the case, if stimulus produced was the basis for the judgement."

You make me smile. I'd like to know about the modifications involved. I have not heard a 'B' but have a 'C' which was just above it in the Ortofon range in those days. Maybe we are all listening to little differences and there isn't any great difference to be heard once you get beyond a certain point in cartridge build quality?

I imagine we have all had one of those wonderful experiences where you suddenly hear something so much better that it changes the way you do things thereafter? But once you have got there, are there further similar revelations or are we quibbling about the chauvinism of small distinctions?

If ten of us sat listening to the same system with the best Lyra, Ortofon, Soundsmith, DA Audio, DaVa, AT, Dynavector, Clearaudio (add your favourite) carts, would our preference just be individual and not generally reproducible? And if we knew that such results were not to be generalised among all listeners, we would simply be happy with what we liked and not feel the need to impose our preferences on others. That sounds like hi-fi heaven to me!

@pindac That's very interesting. You may have gathered I'm wedded to my London Deccas, but I know I must be prepared for their demise and unrepairablity after John Wright retires at the end of this month. The Kontrapunkt C has been a welcome surprise when taken out of my stash of older cartridges, and while I had thought I would replace it with something like a Cadenza Black when the stylus goes, I'm now thinking I might be better off sending it for a re-tip to VAS or Soundsmith. I can see myself getting very comfortable with it: when you keep equipment a long time because it suits you, your tastes change to align with what you hear. It's like a comfortable pair of well-worn shoes, where both shoe and foot adapt to each other. You get to a point where your system, which may not be the objective best around, still sounds 'right' to you. I think this is rather desirable to a pragmatic audiophile, as it gets you off the treadmill of constant upgrades and dissatisfaction, and lets you get to the point where you are happy with (and a little proud of) what you have, and you can settle down to listening to the music, not the equipment.

"The Decca London Reference is an awful cartridge. It is a terrible tracker and very unreliable."

Says you. I've had one for eleven years with no reliability issues and no tracking problems, nor does it hum like the Deccas of yesteryear. Put it in a high quality damped tonearm and you'll hear music like no other. Honestly, when you make a statement like that I have to start doubting everything else you write...

Talking of the proof being in the listening, I just realised I have been making an elementary mistake, and I bet most of you do it too.

This is about getting the volume right when comparing cartridges. I expect we all know that volume influences how we perceive sound, and are aware of the warning that a constant desire to turn the volume up indicates there is something inadequate in the sound chain.
I have been continuing to compare cartridges, and have begun to revisit some that I initially discarded as lacking. After struggling for an hour with some 309 headshells (I would like to have a word with the designer about the stupidity of arranging a nut and bolt that do not line up until they are actually fully engaged...) I replaced the Ortofon Kontrapunkt C with the Grado Statement 3. Not a permanent change, just for fun and comparison. I like the Ortofon, but had been disappointed with the Grado. But since my last try I have changed my phono amp, and it is more obvious now when cartridge outputs vary (the new one can cope with five inputs and remembers their settings). I noticed straight away that once I had set the phono to MM for this MI cartridge, I was having to crank up the pre-amp volume control compared to where it had lived for ages when dealing with the London Reference (output 5mV into an MM input) and the Ortofon (0.47mV into an MC input). The Grado puts out 1mV, so it makes perfect sense it would require a twist of the volume knob compared to the London Decca.

I don't remember there being such an obvious difference when using the Quad 24p last time, and that was probably me rather than the phono stage. To be fair to myself, I have also been coping with now-you-see-them-now-don't Quad 2905s that seem to require frequent repairs (I may have a Heath Robinson fix applied).

So now I have set the volume so that an app that measures SPL on my phone reads between 50-60dB where I sit (it doesn't matter if it isn't very accurate in absolute terms as long as it is consistent I can compare). Now I have to listen to a bunch of albums and compare to the Decca on the other table, with its output set to something similar. Doesn't seem fair to compare without getting this right. Probably should pick a single track to set SPL level whenever I change cartridge so I can be consistent. I am moving forward with a pair of tonearm pods so I can have four tonearms and cartridges on the go at once, and it rather makes sense to have a level playing field for them.

When someone gets banned twice and still feels it is the forum's fault I believe I might be justified in thinking that is a red flag.

With respect to my comment that feeling the need to turn the volume up is an indication that there is something wrong in the reproduction chain, I confess I heard that repeated many times by the sages at the Canadian UHF Magazine, which is now pretty much defunct. In its day (1982 - originally as Hi-Fi Sound magazine - up to cessation of the print version after issue #97). It was an unusual magazine in that it would not review a product that was not up to snuff, and was honest about those it did. They did not lead me astray.

@noromance

Sorry, I need to correct my senility-infused confusion. Should read "tail slightly up." Much better highs and leading edge snap.

I’m delighted with my Reference (or Jubilee) with the rear end very slightly down, as judged by the line along an SME tonearm. Both used at 2g VTF. Maybe I can’t hear the missing highs any more.

(So nice, by the way, to get back to actual audio issues instead of personality clashes!)

Will do. Maybe it will last a bit longer with the lower VTF.

Edit: gone from 1.9g down to 1.67g according to my scale. We'll see.

It's utterly unfair to people floundering around wondering what's best when they can't hear this!

Ah. After three or four days with the Grado Statement 3 on one table, I now have gone back for one album on the other table, with a London Reference (I don't know the reduced VTF made a massive difference) on it. Supertramp's Indelibly Stamped. For Hyperion owners, "..I'll go get a cactus of my own" as it says on track one of side two. There's just no comparison.

Even if I had a dealer nearby, I think I would prefer to learn to install them and adjust them myself (as I have). If you rely on the dealer you aren't going to be able to swap cartridges on a whim when you want to compare them.

The top four members of Soundsmith's range are all low output (0.4mV) despite being MI like the rest of the range. They are recommended for use with an MC input or SUT.

@dover Agreed. The Sussurro MkII sounds best in the MC input with loading set to 800Ω. Even then, it isn't in the running for World's Best. Writing this I wonder if I should have tried that trick with the Grado Statement 3. Its 1mV output is rather in no man's land, and it bores me through the MM input.

If you mean me, @lewm , I think it is at its best at 800Ω. I had previously tried it as an MM input, with the volume cranked up and it didn't matter what the capacitative load was set at. Turns out one should RTFM.

Even set as an MC input, with some fiddling with the resistive loading, it still doesn't match the sheer joy of the Nagaoka MP-500. It seems like we don't quite know what we're about with MI cartridges that have cantilevers just yet.

@lewm Soundsmith, as you may know, recommend using an MC input with 63dB gain. Loading is to be a minimum of 470Ω, as anything lower results in loss of high frequencies. 470 - 1000Ω is suggested.

I have the option of 10, 25, 50, 100, 400, 800, 1200 and 47kΩ on an MC input. I find Dame Janet Baker and the first of Elgar's Sea Pictures useful for this as she has a rich contralto for assessing the top end, and the tympani provide plenty of bass

47k leaves a high end peak that makes for a sound I call thin and scratchy. 1.2k improves on it, 800 is nicely balanced and rounded (probably the best and most accurate setting), 400 becomes a little bit lush, being biased towards the bass with the top end rolled off (I rather like it for musicality!). Going down to 100Ω goes too far in that direction, rather like playing clumsily with tone controls. And having reached that point and listened to the 'Sea Slumber Song' four times I didn't go lower. I'm rewarding myself with Jacqueline DuPré on the other side now.

I'm quite happy with the sound of the Sussurro at 400-800Ω: the place where it fails compared to the London Reference is in something mysterious. The latter makes me want to tap my toes or conduct as I listen. It's nothing to do with imaging as I have but one ear and no directional hearing, so no stereo for me. The sense that I'm listening to something 'live' is what I mean. I have to attribute it to the speed and responsiveness of the cantileverless Decca. And having had the first movement of Elgar's cello conc. on the Sussurro, I'm now repeating it on the other table with the Reference. The difference isn't just in the attack of the pizzicato, even the slow bowing on the C and G strings have a richer timbre with each little catch and slip of the rosin on the horsehair audible. That's what I'm going to miss when the Deccas die.

@mijostyn You must have caught Peter L. in his cups to make such damaging admissions!

@lewm I owe you thanks. I tried the same process with the Grado Statement 3 and it has transformed the cartridge from being a boring but honest into a spirited creature that just about beats out the Sussurro. It likes 100Ω best of all. I put the gory details in the 'Moving Iron Adventures' thread.

It was the first really good one you heard and it left an indelible impression on you. 

I daresay there is something in what you say - first love and all that. The eye-opening (ear-opening?) experience that reveals previously unknown possibilities. Mine came with my father-in-laws LP12 (cartridge - I never knew enough to enquire at the time - it was about the music and not the equipment!), Quad amp and B&W active speakers. I later learned that wasn't quite perfection...

So, I have continued to enjoy such revelations with appropriate investments (and yes, there were too many investments made on the basis of reviews that disappointed). I am convinced there are more such leaps of experience to be made, but now being retired I don't think I shall ever make them given the price of admission.

Oh, that other kind of first love? She's still here. The one that stops me playing jazz, blues, Supertramp, Steely Dan and The Doobie Brothers when she's around. But she did support me discovering opera in my thirties and travelling across the country three times a year for my fix at the COC. The one that was in tears this morning on hearing a choral version of The Lark Ascending. She's a keeper.

BBC Singers at The Edinburgh Festival, with Sofi Jeannin (mezzo) and arranged by Paul Drayton. I don't have a recording, but heard it on CBC radio (we have great FM reception here, but a pity the CBC plays mostly dreck these days).