What I wish I knew before starting my audiophile journey

I would add -

-find a veteran mentor and listen carefully to what they say

-be patient or you will waste money

-Fix the room before you spend too much $ on gear

-Buy nothing without a trial period

If you follow all those guides you will not make any large misteps

@limbonner You’re probably aware that some precious metals like gold and silver have the propensity of purifying water - fact. In a similar way, the audio cables/interconnects effectively clean the electrical power coming to your house. All of these devices/cables are notting more than filters. In addition, the electromagnetic orientation of the cables can facilitate the process of purifying just like catalysis do. I know, there is plenty of reasons to be skeptical but this is all I’ve got for you.

figured out how to easily become a millionaire first, in order that i could afford all that is required to join the hobby. all the reviewers on stereophile seem to live in quasi-mansions with 12 foot ceilings and 40 foot wide listening rooms, and distant neighbors. 

@

emrofsemanon Dedicated audiophiles can easily become millionaires if only they were billionaires prior to the hobby.

@jeffseight 

Totally agree about the room. One of the biggest challenges and constraints in my case. My listening room is my family room and my wife isn’t about to let me throw up a bunch of panels everywhere!! She also doesn’t have any interest in my gear however she does understand it’s something I’m passionate about. Funny enough, a buddy and I were having a discussion reflecting on if we knew what we knew now we would actually start with power and room acoustics before buying even one piece of gear. We laughed because no one starting in this hobby would ever take that advice!!! I would have said you’re crazy !! But I believe it now. Since I can’t really alter my room I needed to work around it. I did sneak one absorbing panel on the back wall because my couch/head is right up against it and it absorbs a lot of bass build up. The challenge was getting it to be wife friendly. Wish it was easier to post something on this forum. Second major challenge  was speaker distance off the walls. Wife put a 15” max limit lol. So with these constraints it’s no easy task to find a combination that works. I 100% know that a different room with the same gear would yield even better results.

1+@1971gto455ho @johnah5 @tannoy56 

I also joined the journey back into the hobby just about the same time shortly before Covid-19. I remember then encountering a fascinating story of willgolf's journeying all over the country in pursuit of his horn speakers.

His story became so intriguing to me that in a short time I decided to throw the cards away, and treat the purchase of my first $10 K pair of speakers just a few weeks earlier to be a sort of a mistaken transaction. No, not to get rid of them right away, but instead to keep them

Great write up! Very insightful and for what you’ve learned “constructively” in 3 short years is inspiring. I’ve been doing this almost 50 years and I feel in still “winging it” most of the time. Thanks. 

A factor in my audio journey is system synergy. At one point I had an Arcam amp paired with Paradigm speakers. It worked because the Arcam had a laid back presentation with the forward sounding Paradigms. They complemented each other. When I upgraded the speakers to some more refined Revels, no more synergy. Both components had a more laid back sound and the amp wasn't powerful enough for the inefficient speakers. So I eventually upgraded the amp to a Cambridge Audio with more power and a less laid back sound. Back to synergy. I will admit that all of this is very subjective and will be impacted by personal preference and all of the myriad of audio factors like room dynamics, source equipment, cables and in my case budget.

@chriszponder 

What horns did you buy and why do you consider them a mistake?

JH

Sorry for the split thread. It is too early in the morning, or else too late into the night.

But instead to keep them as a treasure to be discovered at a later time, while pursuing the wonder of this hobby on other fronts.

In the meantime I became so intoxicated with the possessive nature of this hobby that I almost killed my own son then 26, with ignorance while cancer devoured his body, and I was blind to see it coming.

Fast forward, and a happy one is that Paul has recovered thus far, and we are back into building our dedicated sound room.

In the meantime; however, I sacked half of my retirement fund and an equal amount in savings depleting it entirely in the process with two complete systems built around two sets of speakers, while sharing a rather frugal analog rig based on Pro-Ject X10 TT @ Herron Vtph-2A.

With that being said and upon listening to many of you respected members here on Audiogon, I realized early on that without a dedicated and properly treated sound room, there is no sense to unravel the bounty of over $ 120K in accumulated audio gear until the room is finished.

It has taken me already three years along with successively sacking my son's cancer, and it seems another year to go before I can hear a single note of sound. Until then the fruits of this effort remain unknown, but what I can say is that it was much easier to spurge $120 K on the audio gear than to tackle the sound room. The complexity and the multitude of aspects going into every square inch of surface (hidden and not) in a sound room is making me going nuts. Of course I am forced to go DIY since no savings left, and wife seriously pondering at taking an upper hand with my hobby and the door swung wide open. I guess this is just a collateral damage many of us are faced on regular basis. It is sort of like trying to keep the flame at the end of a candle stick going strong in the winter storm.

Since I am already at it while posting my only second time, may I please ask a question I was pondering at fore some time now and never had time to ask.

Will I have any need to use in my sound room / audio system / a PS Audio P20 Power Plant upon installing Equi=Tech 5WQ Balanced Power wall cabinet system? The Panel is coming in next week while the P20 is sitting in its own box since more than a year and a half, and I have not yet asked Paul about it. I have asked our friend @ mikelavigne who without knowing it got me going with Equi=Tech solutions through his two decades old Power thread, but for some reason I cannot get him to respond to my question.

Highly appreciate all of your members input.

Thanks, Chris.

I would agree clean power is crucial.if you can run a dedicated line direct fron breaker panel that is a great start.

Also I would spend a lot of prep time with speaker placement and room treatment  .

@chriszponder Good to hear your son recovering!

I hear you on how expenditures on audio system can overwhelm our finances. I always tried to stick to rules of not buying anything on credit, having to sell something, didn't need to be audio related, to help in purchasing new additions. This has worked out pretty well for me, can't say the same about motorcycles and cars!

I also believe the Equi-tech is all you'll need. I have BPT, another balanced transformer based conditioner. Previously owned earlier iterations of PS Audio power plants, they went away, BPT far superior. I transferred one of my PS Audio to home theater system, provides good service there.

I agree highly unlikely someone's going to optimize AC and room prior to any hardware purchases. One's necessarily going to start with amp, speakers and source, assuming one hasn't paid attention to room and AC, they're  likely to begin the churn, always blaming the equipment, ignorant of how large a contribution AC and room bring.

@johnah5 

Thanks for asking.

First I purchased Tannoys Churchill by PBN and then Viking Acoustics' Grande Voix in full grain heirloom wood, and now I definitively do not consider either one to be a mistaken identity.

Maybe then I considered it as such, perhaps to justify a run after my retirement fund. But as I said earlier it is still unknown what I shall discover once the Room is finished. I am the one who purchased the speakers at blank (blind) point relying on one of the most intriguing stories on this forum. So far I don't have a problem with this while consuming most of my energy and focus on building the room in my basement (26 X 15+ X 8 1/2 ceiling).

Eventually I will share the system, the room and my discoveries, and I will most likely have a tons of questions in the future as I go with the journey.

Always appreciate everyone's knowledge on this forum, Chris.

@limbonner  Rex and Bob Hungerford of Kingrex Electric show off their audiophile-grade electrical service panel. 

As long as our ears are still analog, they’ll be a need to connect with the air and move it around in our listening spaces. Precision raw speaker drivers, robust amplification, meaty cables, and the power from the wall to make it all happen will be essential elements of a audiophile system for some time to come. Until we have the tech to communicate those digital sources telepathically, or have a port installed and a digital bitstream connected directly to our brains, those "old school’ things will matter. It’s also irrelevant whether those items are internal, external, active or passive, the sames rules apply. Even short cables runs (inches) and termination methods make a differece. Yes, we can split hairs here and debate the gradients of various solutions, but that same stuff matters, whether it’s sonic impactt is 1% or 90% on sound quality.

What we invest in our system depends on a number of factors. Some of us have the ability to select "this" AND "this". Most of us have to choose between "this" OR "this". Just like a portfolio of "adenelin stocks" -- the one’s you choose because you want the excitement of playing in the stock market, your audio gear investment needs to be money you can afford to loose, or at least a good chunk of it.

As far as dealers are concerned (I’m a retired one), not all customers are rugged individuals who relish in the aspect of taking on the magnitude of information out there to select the "right" system. They are busy people in many cases. Or, they’re emotionally and financially involved in their classic car, motorcycle, guitar, watch or wine collections. Audio is something they enjoy, but they’d rather take a deep dive into turbos vs superchargers discussion than vinyl vs streaming. Many came to us with a "save the labor pains, just give me the baby" attitude. They want to push a button and emerge themselves (and, their guests) in music and movies, and could care very little about dampening factors, black backgrounds, or FLAC vs MQA. Service and support is a high priority for them. There are dealers who have dedicated their careers to providing a high level of integrity as good stewards of their customer’s money.

@ecpninja 

Exactly,

the Eqi=Tech wall cabinet (sub panel) is meant exclusively for dedicated room/only audio equipment need. I will use five of the available six 20 Amps separate circuits in 5WQ for my own use.

I'll leave the sixth one available for family's future needs after I will eventually be no more, and after one day, perhaps some of them might grow into appreciating taste of sound in music and not a noise, as an alternative to selling it all at a steep lose.

I already prepared five Romex 10-2 runs, twisted with my own hands and into a flex metal conduit/shield. Four of equal lengths in a cluster of (3) on the front wall /adjacent corner on the long wall, and one 70' on the other end of the same, long wall.

Equi=Tech engineer told me that I did not need all of this twisting and shielding, but what a heck, it is already done and is hanging in the joists! It was; however, a back twisting job, and I was on it for two months with a bright sun shining outside last summer.

Again, I appreciate all of your responses @sns. Yours is a big help for a newbie to stay the course, and I am glad that somehow crediting own intuition I ended up with a different instinct. However, there is not one audiophile without a bad turn, or a U-turn on this seductive journey.  

@waytoomuchstuff Interesting to hear a dealer's perspective on this, I often assume others as attentive to small details as I am.

I've also run in motorcycle and car circles nearly all my life, seems like I'm always around OCD type people! Can't recall meeting another audiophile, motorcycle and car nut in one package.

dman1974 some posts seem to have got little off point (!) as usual. When I read your original post I just thought YES! Right on you are so right that is the right advice. Speakers-Power-Cables even a semi modest system (like my own) can sound pretty pretty good. TY DMAN74.

@sns 

Well we haven't met but you can count me in that group.

Motorcycles since I was 8 years old, still have first bike that I built, '76 HD rigid frame chopper.

Cars too numerous to count in my teens.  And I still have my first "real" car, '68 427 ragtop vette.

Forget about stereo, too much to list. Not sure if I've spent more $ on stereo or Corvettes!

Regards,

barts

I think isolating all your audio gear on a dedicated line direct from panel is a must.

Also I am  a big fan  of designers that take the approach of using external power supplies.

Especially in pre amps streamers &DACs

With regard to room treatments based on my experience with the room I built just for my 2 channel rig.

Play different music emphazing different instruments

To determine which frequency ranges sound good.

I had great upper bass in my room but never liked saxophone tracks. Then I experimented with more diffusion on front wall. Absorption/diffusion at first reflection points including the ceiling and this really improved the sound.

So as I mentioned previously Room Treatment is very crucial.

Enjoy the journey

@strawj @1971gto455ho 

Yes, I know what you mean.

By no means did I want to hijack someone else's thread, but after half a night with you guys, and having difficulty to shake off, or shape the other half of the morning today I am calling it a quit.

It is 10 degrees F here in Loveland, CO and It is time for me to get into the electric grid with my sore eyelids wiring those cans in the ceiling!

Thanks, Chris.

I hit audio nirvana by accident.... no dedicated lines, special cables. or really high priced equipment although I do have systems that fits that description. I do woodworking and wanted to make some pretty speakers that sounded good so I bought some walnut and added fostex tweeters, two B&W Cm9 midranges to each, a scanspeak woofer, and a mirage subwoofer. The crossover came from China that I bought new on ebay. It was my third system and I had a 150 watt per channel Nad amp lying around so I used it although this particular amp didn’t have outstanding reviews. I wanted to use it for the TV so added two bose speakers in back (don’t faint because it obviously isn’t 2 channel). I put a flashdrive in my Oppo 103 and pushed play and it blew me away. The whole room unexpectedly came alive with music. Pink Floyd and Lambchop never sounded quite so good. What I wish I knew is I could have done it for that price all along.

Battery backup system with dedicated pure sine wave inverter for audio and home office. <$4k DIY

You will never be able to control the power quality coming from the utility company.

You can have the most expensive distribution box you can build, with gold plated or “pure copper” everything, spend 10s of thousands on internal home wiring, but if the available grid power is, shall we say ”inconsistent”, having “pristine” power circuits inside the house won’t help.

Need to provide a source of “clean” and consistent power first.

Nothin like having the electric utility have a power outage then someone turn the power on/off/on/off  6+ times in a minute, then have a 3 day power outage.

Come to the Florida Audio Expo in Tampa February 17-19 and hear first hand 80+ vendors systems.  Talk to the manufacturers, listen, and then decide what works for you.

The very first thing an audiophile should learn is perhaps anathema to many in this community, but unquestionably true. That the relationship between equipment quality/price and the listener's audio experience, is entirely asymptotic. The perfect audio system is an illusion and after a certain point the gains become infinitesimal, and most certainly inconsequential. This is a physical reality, that can only be mitigated by self-delusion. Your system is already as perfect as its likely to get.

LOL @viridian for some of us the hot chicks wouldn't talk to us so we were left with our stereos. 🤣

On the topic of gear churning it can be both stressful and fun. I started churning back in 2000 and over a 6 year period turned over so many amps, preamps, speakers, cd players, cables etc. I finally discovered in getting a used tube amp repaired that I lived near an excellent dealer. That dealer was smart enough to send me home with a loaner amp which sounded much better than the amp they were fixing.

A few years later I bought that amp from them, bought a preamp, bought speakers and volila my gear churning days came to an end. And I get better sound than ever before.

Sometimes the point is the journey but the destination is a totally different thing and there are many ways to skin a cat!

I am older and just recently got into this hobby. I just purchased my first set of speakers (Graham ls 6) for their rich midrange and are deciding on an amplifier, dac and streamer which I will probably buy as an all in one to keep things as simple as possible. I understand that separates usually sound much better, but I am not an audiophile both because my hearing is older and I don’t have a strong knowledge base in music. What I do like is listening to beautiful music which I can do for hours. I want to thank the OP for starting this thread and the people who contributed for very interesting and often helpful reading. As many others have said, this is simultaneously such a fun and frustrating hobby.

Nice little speakers @switzer145 and not that difficult to drive Rega and Naim would be natural partners who make all in one solutions. Croft for a more bare bones approach with better sound would work also.

@akg_ca  "An affordable speaker with high-end amplification and source makes more sense in audio performance, than an expensive speaker matched up with a cheap amp and source."

I must disagree.  The speaker is where the rubber hits the road.  The sound that reaches your ears can be no better than the speaker itself, full stop.  It will not matter how expensive your amplifier is, if the speaker isn't up to task.

as far as "garbage in, garbage out"... well, you don't have to spend a lot of money to NOT have garbage, when it comes to amplifiers and cd players or streamers... 

Decent but inexpensive amps and cd players can sound marvelous, but only with good speakers.  There is much bigger bang-for-the-buck in upgrading speakers.  

@switzer145

You’re right to start with the nice speakers.

Think about something like the Marantz n40 amp... old school/new tech: has a streamer and all the modern hookups, plus has bass, treble, balance controls right on the face. That’d sound really nice with your Grahams. You can tack on an over the air tuner like a Teac for about $125, if you like radio, and the Marantz 60 cd player if you want to stay "matched" or even an inexpensive Yamaha CD player will do you fine.

Or even a decent receiver; I have a Pioneer Elite sx-84 from about 1999 aprox that has hdmi, optical, and coax inputs, bass/subwoofer management, surround sound though I only use it for stereo... 140 watts of deep rich power; really sounds very nice with a decent pair of speakers... and it already has a decent over the air tuner too; you can get one for less than $300 on ebay, and then tack on a Bluesound Node for your streamer and you’re good to go for less than $1000.

@switzer145  and @jond 

And what jond says also makes sense, too... a Naim Unity or something like that

@curtdr 

the better the speaker the more revealing it will be. Revealing the weakness of the source and amp. No joy will come out of it.

It makes no sense to watch blueray movie on a VGA monitor

@grislybutter

but "weakness of the source and amp" is far more subtle than better speakers... even resolving speakers still sound great on something like the Marantz n40, or even my Pioneer Elite. Would speakers sound even better w a more expensive amp than those? eh, maybe, depends on the ears more than the amp

diminishing returns kick in hard more w amps than speakers, likewise w source like cd player (my old Sony cd changer still sounds excellent, even w its own built in dac, though my Marantz Ruby cd player does sound better the "better" is quite subtle:  $50 used for the Sony, $2400 open box deal for the Ruby... definitely huge diminishing returns)... though diminishing returns on speakers is also a very real rule.

good speakers make music sound good even from a "lesser" amp and cd player, but a great amp cannot make bad speakers sound good.

and, I also agree that the OP is rather out of control... 10 amps in three years ?  come on, that's crazy.  Relax.  Pick something good, and then just enjoy it.

right, that's why matching is important.

Audio: It is the best of hobbies and it is the worst of hobbies. It starts with a love for music but that quickly leads to obsession. In olden times life was simpler. One went all out with either a reel to reel tape deck or settled for a turntable. FM Tuners used to be a favorite for hobbyists, but not for the hi end crowd. Next the hi end crowd could choose from a handful of tube amps and preamps and either some electrostatic Quads or a suitable box speaker if they liked to play their music loud.

Today we have a bewildering choice of sources- digital, analog, streaming, wifi, bluetooth and on and on. And then there is the listening room and the power coming into the listening room, grounding and on and on. What? Has no one done a study yet on optimum hair length for listening? Or, how about ear shape. Any audiophile oriented plastic surgeons out there to take our hearing to the next level? Incredible. But I have some either good news or bad news depending on how you want to look at it. The news is that this hobby is a rabbit hole with no apparent bottom. It is up to you as a hobbyist to decide when enough is enough. Maybe you get to a point that you can no longer hear a difference, but that doesn’t mean someone else cannot still hear a difference, or maybe you get to a point that you don’t care if there is a difference. Peace to you and now your heart is full of gladness because you can get back to the music. Or maybe you simply run out of money and can no longer fund your voracious appetite for more and better upgrades. A very sad ending for many of us. But take comfort in knowing that the next piece of better stereo gear is either out there waiting for us or will soon be invented. I myself am waiting eagerly for my new, very expensive network switch to arrive. Just a few years ago I had no idea a network switch would be my bridge to stereo nirvana. Perhaps it won’t but I’ll never know until I try.

Stereo gear is designed and built in tiers. I say these tiers, in simplistic terms are low fi, mid fi, hifi and ultra hifi. Each has a place in our lives and can provide us pleasure and entertainment. The cost or price range of each of these categories surprisingly overlap as also does performance. That is to say that a piece of mid fi gear can sound surprisingly good for the money and leave one to mistakenly conclude that hifi is a rip off. An example for me is a $500 phono cartridge. I can mount one (and I have before when my Benz died) on my tonearm and find it quite pleasing. I can find it shockingly good. But after a while I begin to notice things are not well. I begin to notice detail is missing. Tracking wasn’t so great on some records, and so forth. I go back to a hi end cartridge and now the music is right again. Word of warning: Don’t step into the high end pool unless you are ready to pay. It’s like getting an upgrade to first class on an overseas flight. The ride home in coach is really horrible after that. Life is not fair but that is how things are. So it can get confusing when we hear a piece of lower price gear sound really good. Be careful not to make a conclusion based on a sample of one. The thing that experienced audio hobbyists can discern is pseudo hifi. That’s because we have all gotten burned at some time or another. Experience is the best teacher but guaranteed its going to hurt at times.

As I said the tiers overlap both in price and in performance. Many systems likely have a mix of some low end hifi or high end mid fi even if we want to believe it’s all hifi. And then there is the ultra hifi. If you think you have hit the ceiling and your stereo sounds as good as any stereo can sound, seek out an audition in a room with ultra hifi. One of three things happen- a) you cannot hear a difference, b) you hear a difference and want to throw all of your gear into a bonfire, c) You are filled with joy knowing your hobby has a new, higher ceiling and the quest can continue. If you fall into category C- please seek help.

What is hifi, low fi and mid fi? These are the definitions by Tony. Take them with a grain of salt. I am an old crotchety retired engineer full of outdated opinions. (I don’t think they are outdated but I get a lot of feedback to the contrary).

lo fi- iPods, car radios, bose radios, etc. Casual listening suitable for driving and singing along, or while working in the yard, cleaning house, etc. Also great for rides in elevators.

mid fi- The first vestiges of a music system. Sometimes recognizable as a 2 channel stereo. Can be a receiver based system or integrated amp based. Mass produced gear with components ranging from industrial grade to audio grade in the better quality gear. Mid fi gear can sound pleasant to good and even great with ample bass and rhythm. Generally mid fi lacks focused imaging and a three dimensional soundstage. The soundstage will breakdown and the sound become harsh or congested when the music gets loud or busy. But for college dorms this is how we rock! Yeah!

hifi- Generally this level of gear is boutique level. It is handmade or hand assembled using high level quality components that have been sorted or produced with minimal variation. High level designs with maximum performance in mind. Each component is typically auditoned by the manufacturer before shipping. Hifi can range widely from producing exquisite mid range with vocals to die for to full range systems that can reproduce organ notes like being there. Hifi is known to have a soundstage with a level of realism to almost being there. Three dimensional soundstage with sharply focused images. Very low noise that adds to the realism and striking dynamic range and response. Hifi can invoke intense emotional responses to the music. Once encountering hifi one to two responses are possible- a) You become smitten and spend the rest of your life pursuing that feeling, that moment when you first encountered hifi. (That’s me). b) You think, "sounds great" so what’s the big deai? In this case, peace to you and may your heart be filled with gladness. Go spend your money on a boat.

Ultra hifi- This is reserved for the handful (27) of billionaires in the entire world that a) have the disposable income for a $1 million record player, b) care enough to set apart a dedicated room that costs more than most homes, and c) have the time to dedicate to this hobby when not jet setting to World Economic Forums. Ultra hifi is an unforgettable experience. The musicians are in the room with you. Close your eyes and you can feel them moving about the room It is eerie and uncanny. Noise levels are absolute zero and dynamic range is beyond real life. Recordings feel like live concerts. Every sound, rhythm and pulse is delicious. The best high end hifi systems get very close to this.

Keep in mind that it is true, money cannot buy everything. These tiers overlap which can cause much confusion. Expertise in applying the gear, designing the listening room and knowing how synergy between components is working are key to getting the best sound for your dollar.

Here’s the best part: Spend $15k, $150k or $300k and still someone will comment that it could be better. Have enough family or friends over and someone will comment about a deficiency in the sound somehow. Think not? Just go to Axpona and listen to all the great gear in each of the rooms. Then listen to the comments of people when they leave those rooms. This is the hobby that tries men’s souls. (Ok, ok that tries people’s souls.)

@antialiased interesting observation re:generational priority differences. It makes sense. 

Also, I'm going to second having a good, reputable dealer who' s NOT a chain and/or who DOESN'T also specialize in home theater. 

Thanks all for the comments. As tonywinga lays out the tiers, I would say that my system will be mid fi (actually as I think about it I’m pretty much a mid fi person in most respects, not a bad  place to be). My intention, since as I said I am older, is to err on the somewhat more expensive side as my plan is for this to be my first and last system. I am not unaware of the “rabbit hole” possibility. When the pandemic started and I spent a good amount of time at home I started buying headphones. Three years and a dozen pairs of headphones later … . 
I’ve read a lot and my thinking at the moment is to choose between the Naim Uniti Atom (thanks curtdr for the reinforcement) and the Lyngdorf NAIS 1120, the latter because it apparently has very good room correction and my system will be in a large (14’ by 37’) normally furnished living room. That introduces the frustrating ambiguity in these audio decisions: from what I’ve read the Naim will likely sound better than the Lyndorf, but everyone says the impact of the room on sound performance is enormous so that pushes me toward the Lyngdorf. But then the question is will the Lyngdorf’s room correction be sufficiently beneficial to outweigh what I understand (?) is the Naim’s superior sound quality. Further, I bough these speakers for their rich mid range and the Lyngdorf is reported to allow the speakers’ tonality  to be retained while the Naim reportedly has its “own” sound. And then there’s the issue of whether both of these have sufficient power to get the most out of these speakers (the speakers’ specs are: 8 ohms; 87 db’s impedance; recommended amplifier power of 50-150 watts), and the Naim’s and Lyndorf’s power are 40 and 50 watts respectively. When you read the reviews and the comments in audio forums some say it’s not enough to optimize those speakers while others say of course they both have plenty of power and that’s not at all an issue. Then there’s the issue of my need for simplicity and ease of operation as I am not technically facile, to say the least. (Some say the Naim is very easy to operate, but they don’t know who they’re dealing with here). I think my solution to that may be to purchase one of these amplifiers and if I really find it difficult to operate easily to add a Blusound Node, which everyone says is very easy to operate, to the system. Now I know the answer tomuch of this to find the appropriate dealers and go there and listen. But then people say that the only way to really to get an accurate picture is to audition them in your own home. But as everyone here knows that’s easier said than done. Moreover, if I decide on the Lyngdorf I would buy it new, but as the Naim is more expensive I likely would buy it used so I don’t want to take a Naim dealer’s time. And finally, because I’m just not a real audiophile, maybe I’m just overthinking this and any choice would be fine.  Oh boy. 
Sorry for the long rant and while I know it doesn’t come across here I am actually finding this to be fun. Thanks all.

A couple of additional comments that I’d like to add about ultra hifi and mid fi. Ultra hifi is music reproduction on a grand scale. It creates life size 1:1 imagery as well as clarity and realism almost beyond real life. I once heard an ultra hifi system set up in a ball room. Four large panels, maybe six all powered by separate large ARC ref amps. The orchestra was laid out before me on a life size scale in 3 dimensions. I could pick out each and every instrument in the orchestra- better almost than if I had been standing in front of a real orchestra. That was in 1989. Very impressionable on a young engineer like myself.

Mid fi is not a derogatory term. At least it should not be. It describes very musical and enjoyable systems that can be assembled on a much more reasonable budget. My HT system is mid fi and I think it sounds great. It is perfect for me for watching TV. I’m not interested in going hifi with my HT although some people are. I will even listen to music in 2 channel mode on my HT system at times. For sure my HT has benefitted from trickle down from my stereo system and I appreciate the improvement in sound. I keep my obsession focused on my 2 channel system.

I recently got an OLED TV for my HT.  I have to say, that is the TV I have been waiting for all my life.  But that is for a different thread…

Interesting thread. What do I wish I had known sooner?

1. You need power to know what’s going on. When I started using 200 watt + amps, things got easier to understand.

2. Cables and tweaks do matter, but not all the time. I remember getting some brass feet as part of a deal and putting them under a Cyrus CD player that was pretty good. Wow, what a difference. Not to mention my Gaia iii footers!

3. Speakers are important but not as much as you think. Necessary but not sufficient. I’ve changed out amps and preamps and cables but haven’t had much desire to change out my speakers. Once I got to a level that worked well I really concentrated on other things. The lesson for me here is to get some good speakers early on the journey and call it a day.

4. (Biggest revelation). It takes time. When I was working I had little time to listen and changed our way to frequently. Since I retired I listen all the time and have learned to slow down the changes and really identify well recorded reference content.

I have about $12K in my system, as follows:

31% speakers

12% cables

16% amplifiers

18% preamp

18% sources

05% tweaks

My system is strictly digital. I’m my turntable days, it would have been much mi source and tweak intense.  And this is a humble mid-fi system.  At a $40K level, I’d be much much more focused on speakers, I think. 

@tonywinga Estimation of audio journey and tiers of audio very well stated! Audio just like nearly all human endeavors in that complexity nearly always in upwards trajectory. Questions never end, answers are discovered. The one thing I'd add to the upper tiers is the many paths available within those tiers, for example SS or tube, high power, low efficiency speakers, low power, high efficiency speakers, and then we have variations within these paths such as Class A, A/B, and now D for SS, SET and push pull for tube. All these paths can have great variations in cost to reach the highest tiers, for example high power usuall means higher cost. And then we have sound preferences within those tiers, highly doubtful all would find any particular system within that tier to be satisfactory, some may even doubt it's placement within that tier.

So, we see the complications never ending, for those desiring to reach the highest tiers be prepared to enjoy the process otherwise this is all tedious and a burden. I've thought more than a few times along this journey how satisfied a normal person would have been with sound quality I had attained at certain points, in those moments doubted my will or need to reach for more. I should have been happy! In recent years I've been contemplating on the idea I'm nearly at an end in this journey, with recent parcel of purchases all things on my audio bucket list have been exhausted, nothing left on short term list and only some nebulous plan for another diy custom build streamer in the future. The question becomes are we really ever done, I'm at point I'm about to find out.

@tonywinga Good call on the OLED. The promise of true blacks is now a reality.

In defense of "hifi" for your home theater:

Things are happening on the screen at the speed of light. It takes power and precision from your audio system to keep up. Although we all enjoy the fireworks, sound effects and great musical score during our movie watching events, the "being there" feeling during conversations at simple restaurant scenes can be lost with mid-fi systems. To fully communicate what the director intended takes an investment.

@tonywinga 

Audio: It is the best of hobbies and it is the worst of hobbies. It starts with a love for music but that quickly leads to obsession.

It's this transition from the love of music to the love of gear that separates the true audiophile from the herd.

However you decide to travel, whichever fork in the road you take, the destination is usually the same.

Peace to you and now your heart is full of gladness because you can get back to the music. Or maybe you simply run out of money and can no longer fund your voracious appetite for more and better upgrades. A very sad ending for many of us.

In any case, the OP's opinion on the importance of loudspeakers and sufficient amplifier power is correct.

It has to be.

There's nothing wrong with using 20 watt per channel tube amps if you prefer their sound but you'd probably want to pair them with a pair of reasonably efficient/easy to drive loudspeakers, wouldn't you?

As for power conditioners, room treatments, isolation etc there's no doubt that these might be useful in some circumstances but it's difficult to generalise here since rooms and equipment are all built differently.

@dman1974  Thanks for sharing your story. Posts like yours can often cut to the chase in a faster way any amount of reading reviews ever will.

@pwayland   +1 on building around the speakers.

I didn't start until 20 years ago but here are a few...

1) Don't buy anything you can't demo in your room, with your components and your music and return, if necessary.  

2) Trust your own ears but give any component plenty of listening time before making any final decisions. The mind can play tricks. 

3) Realize that each time you introduce a new component you may have to re-establish system synergy which may be simple or not so simple. 

4) If you ask for advice, be prepared for a wide range of responses

5) There's an advantage to being born an ardent music lover (someone who HAS to listen to music every day, even if it's on a cheap boom box) and having a relatively modest gear budget. 

dman, thanks for your post. It made me think and appreciate the journey...my journey! I began my second journey after the kids left the comfortable confines of mom & dad's house and went on their own. The "before" kids group had decent equipment like a Luxman R117, Yamaha NS 1000 speakers, and an Akai Reel to Reel, to name a few. But when my wife said, "You owe it to yourself, Go for it", I started again. 

My point to this is first and primary, is research. Read, ask questions and listen. Call the company headquarters of the equipment your interested in and ask questions. Then, before you buy anything, find the right, knowable dealers. We all know that once the journey begins, there will be a lot of upgrades. Having a dealer who participates in your journey with you and gives you reasonable "Trade Up" opportunities is tantamount! Allow me to give two shout outs to 2 of those dealers - Eric at Salon 1 Audio and Taylor at Gold Print Audio. They do it right!

Then I agree, Clean Power is a must. Including proper wiring, upgraded outlets and a power conditioner. All a must.

After that, enjoy the swapping, the trading up, the tube rolling, the cable changes and the new equipment. BUT, take the time to listen and enjoy each new tweak before you do another one. Discern if, and what, should be the next move so you don't have regrets. 

I have no idea if I'm done on my journey. As we all know, can I get any better? Of course, you can always spend more money, but are you getting the increase in benefits, or are you just spending more money? Don't go on an equipment journey...partake in a listening appreciation journey. Listen to your collections whatever format they may be and appreciate the sound you've created. Enjoy a good bourbon and get lost for a few hours before life interrupts. Enjoy the journey but enjoy the music escape first and foremost!

In my 54 years in this hobby, I’ve owned …. 5 pairs of speakers.

Your philosophy ain’t too far off. I don’t waste money on cables: they are at best 2% of my budget. I don’t even bother to mention them in the link below  

theaudioatticvinylsundays.com

I found that Audiogon is where people go when their claims about clean power and high priced speaker wire get roasted on AVSForum.

My interest with hifi gear goes back 60 years with my first system consisting of AR3a speakers, AR turntable, Shure V15, and Dynaco St-70.  In the last few years I have come to appreciate the importance of the actual recording and mastering of the performance.  This is tops on my priority list.  Next, would be the speaker/room interface stressing the importance of an accurate speaker meticulously positioned in a room with well thought out acoustical treatment.  The speaker should be capable of great dynamic range and have superior off axis frequency response.  The system also should have a very ample amount of power driving the speakers.    For me, that’s it.

I have never unduly concerned myself with wires of any type, or power conditioning.  Instead, I invest in other types of improvement that do make a real audible difference. For example, I recently added a couple of JL Audio f112v2 subs with a JL Audio crossover to assist my Revel Salon 2’s which are driven by a pair of Parasound JC1+ monoblocks in turn served by DCS Bartok and Classe preamp.  

This addition has brought this system up to approach my reference system which is in a dedicated room in which speaker placement and acoustical treatment have been well thought out.  This system consisting of JBL M2’s, JBL sub18, and three Crown ITech 5000 amps is capable of significant dynamic range and clean high SPL.

I have always been audiophile atheist regarding wires, power conditioning, audiophile magazines (although I have subscribed to both since their inception), and  most of the myriad other ancillary devices marketed to the audiophile.