Yes, I believe it true that different cables each have their own sonic signature imparting their characteristics in your system. For example, I used to own a Theta Pro-Basic 3, and it was very aggressive, however by inserting a mostly entry level Cardas cable, it completely calmed it down. The Theta and Cardas are no longer in my system. I for one believe in symmetry and also believe you do not need to spend the same amount of money on an IC as you spent on the source component itself! My system currently is Kimber Silver Streak throughout, Balanced and SE, there are better sounding cables out there, but I either can't afford them or the price/performance ratio was not there after audition. I think finding the balance between cost and performance is a hard thing to accomplish. There are some great values out there often overlooked because they were so inexpensive they must not sound good?? Here again, I believe there are diminishing returns as cable price increases and I also believe in not "drinking by the label". In the end my belief is there is a VERY loose correlation between the cost of an IC and how it performs.
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Waxwaves, I never tried any Proteus or Dominus. Also, your system is very different, so no wonder it requires different Purist cables for the overall best sound. But I can tell that another striking quality of the Neptune fluid is its great balance, nothing is exaggerated or diminished, and it is neither forward nor laidback, great dynamics and details too. Unlike Colossus and Maximus Ferox RCAs, the former slightly exaggerates high frequencies and the latter - bass. But I must add that as it was designed, both Colossus and Maximus were fluid cables, replacing fluid with Ferox threw them off the balance a little. The Colossus fluid speaker cables are in my opinion better cables and work great in combination with all copper Neptune fluid. In time I will replace both Colossus and Maximus Ferox interconnects, I am just not sure with what yet. Probably original fluid Ag/Cu/Au Dominus or another Neptune would be best though slightly different choices. Just try to find used original Dominus, almost impossible. |
Only two things are required:
Resolution. Everything that comes in goes out again. Unchanged.
Linearity. Resolution is the same for the entire audio frequency range.
The better cables maintain these characteristics with a variety of components. |
Inna...yes all systems are different in one way or another. How is mine very different? Just curious...
I feel like the Jade Audio cable sounds a bit better from the Lampizator than Venustas does. But PAD excels between preamp and amp, and then again as speaker cable in this system. I've experienced best results with the last legs of cabling being the same. I can take the excellent foundation that PAD lays there and mix the qualities of the Jade ic, the WyWires USB cable, etc to get the sound I'm looking for. You see where I'm going with this. The full loom of PAD is still solid and well balanced, it's good stuff. Just kinda bland and lacking the liveliness, attack, and refinement in the upper end of the frequency range that WyWires or Jade cables bring to the table.
Sounds like you also enjoy the PAD cables Inna. Yes Dominus are incredible and had me drooling over the emmense soundscape. Dominus are out of my reach at present. If I had a loom of Dominus, my opinion regarding the mixing of cable brands might change Inna. They are certainly special and there's no denying it.
imjerrys, does all that linearity and perfect resolution ever get boring, sterile, overly analytical? I hope you are not trading off full bodied musical sound that is harmonically rich? It's so hard to have both in this hobby.
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What most audiophiles want from a cable is confirmation bias.
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randy-11
59 posts
10-15-2016 3:52pm
What most audiophiles want from a cable is confirmation bias.
That cannot be confirmed. |
randy-11
59 posts
10-15-2016 3:52pm
What most audiophiles want from a cable is confirmation bias.
That cannot be confirmed.
In my best computer voice - Negative ,this cannot be confirmed |
OMG! This thread is amazing -- I read every word. Thanks for the masterclass in trolling (including question by OP that started it all off). You guys are awesome. |
barking54, even your name is a noise.
By the way, Purist Ferox cables cannot be filled with fluid, unlike the other way around.
Waxwaves, Dominus, at least a new one, is absolutely out of my reach, as are many things. Gryphon Callisto 2200 integrated, as an example. It is almost never on the second market, there is one now, though. |
^^
and it continues. It's like perpetual motion. Reading this thread is my new favorite pastime. Love it! |
sure, you can fill them with fluid, but you really need to pressurize the fluid |
Barking54...2 posts. 0 for 2 so far! Getting no respect for barking or trolling. |
Not looking for respect. Just voicing my amusement of this thread. You can't make this stuff up. Well, perhaps I could have phrased that differently - ha!!! |
@waxwaves , make that 0 for 3. ;^) |
@barking54
At this point in the thread, YOU have become the source of OUR amusement! Problem is, the more we get to know you, the less we like you. I am sorry you can't find a better pastime. The World Series is on dude, try that. Better yet.. go take a hearing test, that'd be a good pastime for you. Anything but Perpetual PaTrolling Please!
@jmcgrogan2
Odds are he's going 0-4.
wait for it....waaaaait foooorrrr it!
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Speaking of kind of amusement, serious guys in another thread are discussing cartridge alignment. After so many years of turntables there is still something to debate on the subject, it would seem.
Just give me Studer deck and some reels. |
@waxwaves
Oh, no worries - happy to oblige. I am, however, growing bored. Off to discover other magical lands of unicorns and $4K cables. We now return you to you’re regularly scheduled programming. Toodles! |
audiophiles want from cables most of the time something that no one else does.
non-audiophiles purchase monster cable at best buy for better looks (as part of equation).
looks for audiophiles at the same time are somewhat also important. you need to arrange everything nice and shiny to be marketable and presentable to convince that that beautiful set of hoses is gonna sound super good and eyes can hear more than ear! |
barking, you are not doing us any favors. If you really want to oblige us then take the hate somewhere else. The knowledgeable, experienced guys have heard all of this crap before. Cable haters are a dime a dozen. What you have said here means nothing. A good majority of folks here know better, and have experienced higher performance from high quality cabling on many occasions.
Gonna say it again...A well designed audio interconnect, speaker cable, power cable, digital or USB cable WILL in FACT outperform your inferior cable in a resolving audio system setup in a proper listening space. Face it, deal with it, move on please.
.
cvarivey, your statement couldn't be farther from the truth. It blows my mind that you actually believe this. No one here in the know will take you seriously if you keep this up.
No unicorns were harmed in the process of typing this post, only the egos of the inexperienced haters and the admirers of dielectric bling. Love to see this potentially informative thread get back on track. Sorry for the hater hurdles we must jump. |
@waxwaves
Duuud - I was totally out, but you blew it and bit! Now I have no other option but to "nanny-nanny-boo-boo." Well, actually, there are several options, but you made it too damn easy. This time just let it float away . . . in the waves. #namaste |
Have to admit that I'm enjoying taking you to school barking spider.
You wouldn't know namaste' if it hit you in the yoga mat. Turn that Aiwa desktop system up and ride that keyboard off into the sunset big boy.
You are now 0 for 5.
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I have to say, the new Anticables 6.2 RCA interconnects are blowing my mind right now. I can't imagine what the new, albeit insanely expensive, (yes check the price), speaker cables sound like.
Might be the most natural sounding interconnects I've had. |
"A well designed audio interconnect, speaker cable, power cable, digital or USB cable WILL in FACT outperform your inferior cable in a resolving audio system setup in a proper listening space. Face it, deal with it, move on please."
^ that stmt. belongs in the how to rip off audiophiles thread |
I'm thinking true audiophiles already know what's up. You can take that swing, but it's not gonna land with me. Still hating Randy? We can see you are being stubborn and don't have an open mind regarding the subject matter here. I guess you've heard it all already?
Experienced audiophiles know that the most well designed high end audio cables will out perform the average stuff by a good margin. They have heard it in well thought out and very high performing audio systems. If you have experience with these high performance cables and you have the other parameters down, i.e. the resolving high performance equipment utilized correctly in the proper listening space, sense of hearing that has not been compromised, and an understanding of how live instruments and voices should be presented, then you get it. It is here and it is real.
Hey, I do not discriminate! I enjoy MUSIC and an amazing listening experience as much as anyone! Man I'm always looking for an amazing cable that performs way above its price in my system. I recognize. I've enjoyed and talked up some of the great budget cables as well. Grovers, Clear Day, Morrow, Discovery, Anti-Cables are all good examples. Nice additions to most audio systems. I have spent time listening to all these and many more. Still have the Govers and the Discovery just because they are so darn good and inexpensive. There IS another level of sonic realism here folks and yes it's gonna cost you! If you don't want in that club... fine. Nobody's gonna force you, but don't knock me or others for attempting to discuss it on these forums.
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show me the double blind listening tests, please
cables are the biggest rip-off in audio
oh, you don't sell cables, do you?? |
helomech,
Not even a little funny. That's a really old routine. |
In my opinions cables are an essential ingredient in the thrill of realism in music reproduction. My cables including pcs, now represent at least half of the cost of my system. I really don't know where I might further improve my sound, but after the last four years, I cannot say where to try something new. And I should say that at my age I really hope I don't find one.
On double blind listening tastes, I have multiple times participated in them and think they are a complete waste of time as the mind is engaged in a completely different task during them than when we are relaxed and enjoying music. Psychologists using 30 second same or different judgments are wasting their time. It is an invalid measure. |
No Randy, wrong again. I do not sell audio cables or audio equipment... music lover/audio enthusiast here. My work is in the stone industry. I'm the granite countertop guy. |
If you're an engaged audiophile and have experimented with your system to explore possible improvements to the sound and have not at least investigated the cable issue you may be missing out. Sad. As several have correctly posted here, there are very cost effective high performing brands as there are the more expensive spreads. Do what fits your audio budget.
If you are a cable denier and won't consider the importance of the cables that transmit the audio signal from component to component I guess you don't experience a difference with the quality of tires that connect your car to the road. Really??
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There are many 'audiophiles' who can't hear well. Some of them know it but won't say it in public, some don't know. There are also people who can't afford good stuff including cables, so some of them will devalue what is valuable but out of reach not to get upset too much.
Then there are imbeciles, plain and simple, undeveloped folks.
Whatever it is, arguing would serve no purpose. Those in the know know that cables make big difference, and great cables are always expensive. And they have the right to be. |
"If you ...won't consider the importance of the cables that transmit the audio signal from component to component I guess you don't experience a difference with the quality of tires that connect your car to the road."
The above is a really bad analogy and suggests that the poster is ignorant of both audio engineering and mechanical engineering
But it is wrong in a more fundamental sense as well. It isn't that some "won't consider" it is that in science the affirmative has the burden of proof.
For example, you see a couple of people above making bold claims, but they cannot back it up with ANY real listening tests. Post the methodology in your own double-blind tests. Or just tell us what volume of JAES or other engineering or scientific journal the test appeared in.
Also, show where you disconnected and reconnected existing cables to eliminate the effects of removing any corrosion on those connections from your experiment.
Last, we would need to see that any real differences are, in fact, improvements and not simply the result of confirmation bias.
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Randy11 wrote,
For example, you see a couple of people above making bold claims, but they cannot back it up with ANY real listening tests. Post the methodology in your own double-blind tests. Or just tell us what volume of JAES or other engineering or scientific journal the test appeared in.
gosh, you mean audio Journals, AES, JAES or whoever, actually think there are audible differences among cables? WOW, they’ve really gotten progressive.
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randy-11,
Audiodom already has enough audio cheapskates. Your points of view have been more than thoroughly exhausted by droves of others before you. Those of us that have been around more than 10 minutes have read and heard it all. You are posting such things all over Audiogon. Give it a rest. Years from now, you will re-read your posts and regret.
Best to you randy-11,
Dave |
Years from now, you will re-read your posts and regret.
No he won't Dave. I know folks like randy-11, who derive such pleasure in life by bringing irritation to others. The more aggravated you get, the more enjoyment they get out of life. They are the pebble in the sandal of life. randy-11 comes from a long line of internet trolls. His father and grandfather were internet trolls. In fact randy-11 is the 5th generation of internet trolls in his family. One day randy-11 hopes to pass these well learned skills down to his children and grandchildren. randy-11, I know you are but what am I? Great argument dude, thanks for stopping by. Don't let the door hit you where the good lord split you on the way out. |
it sounds like a lot of you live in a fantasy world - do a test
not to mention the 12 year old tone of many of the above remarks
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Ouch Randy! Perhaps you are better suited by other forums, but please don’t tell them that we sent you.
Best to you Randy,
Dave |
randy-11, Audiodom already has enough audio cheapskates. Amen dlcockrum. Love it r andy-11 comes from a long line of internet trolls. His father and grandfather were internet trolls. In fact randy-11 is the 5th generation of internet trolls in his family.
@jmcgrogan2 , this family is reproducing at an alarming rate and Randy must be like 6-7 years old. He's a young troll, he's got many years of trolling ahead. Hey, speaking of trolling, I'm going to Fontana Lake to catch some smallmouth. I'll return to this madness on Monday, I'm sure I can't resist. Hey what did you think of the Acoustic Zen Satori Shotgun speaker cable John?? I'm very interested to hear your and anyone else's impressions of Satori as I just picked up a pair! |
Hey what did you think of the Acoustic Zen Satori Shotgun speaker cable John?? Hi Adam, I liked the Satori Shotgun cables, a good value cable. Reminds me a bit of the Purist Audio sound, full, warm, musical, great 3-D sound-stage, only less expensive. For my tastes it is a bit too warm though. I prefer the AZ Absolute, still has powerful bass and large sound-stage, but offers a bit more resolution. Let me know what you think of them. Cheers, John |
Randy, everyday of my life is a listening test. Go way!
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Thanks John, always good to hear your thoughts on cables and gear. You've been a good guide for me(and others I'm sure) in the search for audio satisfaction over the years. It doesn't surprise me that you have used the AZ Absolute cables as well! Lol. I'll do my best to tell you what I think of the AZ Satori after these thick, heavy, meaty bastards burn in.
You know, this forum can be a very valuable resource for all types of audio enthusiasts and music lovers. These cable threads always draw a troll or two, but we the people will go on! We will always hurdle the trolls and side step the whiny dribble and angry droppings they leave behind. Sweeeewwwww. |
I love my az satori ,I think there great for the bucks .I would love to step into the absolutes,but have spent the money elsewhere in the system. I use all az cabling, ac also.I can say without hesitation ,the changes have not been sublte. |
waxwang wrote:
"We will always hurdle the facts and side step the science and engineering degrees that real people have." |
In fact, you never know how good your active components might be until you give them a great connection. I had no idea that even finely aligned and tuned Nak deck could sound that good until I put the Purist Neptune fluid cable on it. Some say that vintage equipment usually reacts less to cables. Well, I don't have enough experience to voice an opinion, but in my system I would say that the deck, the phono stage and the cd player responded just about equally. But, for already quite warm system Purist's Venustas or of course Dominus, both Luminist Revision, would probably be a better choice overall, though with at least the Venustas you would lose some of the Neptune's incredible soundstage and natural flow. Anyway, now that I got that cable I want even more than before to upgrade the active components it connects, which is unfair to them - they sound better than ever. |
waxwaves, perhaps you're right.
i sometimes develop ignorance towards business that is too far away from truth. |
One attracts another and so it goes... |
I,like many others on this forum believe that cables should be looked upon as you would any other component in your system.
I wish I didn't hear differences in cables because I would have saved a lot of money in the changes i've made and no one wants to have un-necessary expenditures.
So this post is for the argumentative naysayers out there.
I agree that you haven't heard differences in cables but have you ever asked yourself why you haven't ??
With so many knowledgable posters stating the importance of using the correct cable in their system. Have you ever thought ,what is preventing you from hearing a difference.
I'm sure we all have auditioned various components at a dealers showroom and either purchased or had a home audition of the component that we thought was great (we do use this word much to much) only to find this great component doesn't thrill you as it did in the showroom.Now why would that be ? Interaction with the room ? not compatible with your associated equipment or maybe its the cables that was used at the showroom which you refuse to admit might make the difference.
So if you are happy with your system,wonderful.
I do wonder why you argue that if you don't hear it then nobody can
hear it
Enjoy
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goldenera, see my long post above, but in brief...
1. are the differences real? - use a double-blind test to see (I've done this with turntables and there are differences for sure)
2. were the differences caused by re-connection or by the cable itself? - again, do a test - the connection might have had some corrosion on it
3. are the differences really improvements?
4. if yes, to all above, then are the improvements cost-effective relative to things that are known to matter greatly (such as speaker freq. response; room treatments; phase delay, etc.)
in sum, I have tested these things for decades and cables are about the last thing to do (usually); interconnects would come after speaker cables
FWIW, I have Kimber on my speakers - and I got them at a very large discount - I consider having them bi-amped to be more important |
"...I have tested these things for decades and cables are about the last thing to do (usually); interconnects would come after speaker cables"
"FWIW, I have Kimber on my speakers - and I got them at a very large discount - I consider having them bi-amped to be more important"
Randy, we learn only two things from all of the posts you have made:
1) You are an objectivist and an extremely slow learner.
2) Your simple single reply to the OP’s question, "What do audiophiles want from a cable?", could have graciously been, "Whatever is most heavily discounted".
No insult or disrespect is intended to my friend Ray Kimber nor to his fine cable products.
Best to you Randy,
Dave
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actually, you haven't learned anything, and aren't likely to do so in the future either - but stay in school |
Randy,
Now we have a third lesson regarding you:
3) You are infantile.
I submit that these three are more than enough. Shoo, shoo, horsefly.
Best to you Randy,
Dave |
