I try to use cabling to my advantage in the sound system. Cables are ALL different and they have different traits and effects on components, rooms, and recordings IMO. Key word being different lol. No cable, system, room, speaker, ear, or brain is exactly the same really, so it seems to me that everyone's mileage with cabling will vary MWard. What you will hear in a cable that you are using in your system, in your room and with your brain will almost always be different from another reviewer in another location, that's for sure.
I can hear a certain cables sonic signature in my sound system. I strategically put cabling into the system with specific components where I think they will work best in order to improve the system as a whole, and get the sound I want to hear. It's a trail and error thing until you find what you like or what you think is most true to the source. Spice is nice, but you have to start with a good room and good equipment or a good cable could be wasted IMHO. |
Yes. If the piano is recorded well and your room/equipment are capable of producing, then the piano should certainly sound like a piano. Yes, great cables will allow a capable system that is setup correctly in a proper space to more accurately reproduce the sound of a real live piano.
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I'm not too sure about the two schools in that sense sense folks, but I'm keeping an open mind. If anything, there is the transparency, analysis, and resolution heads(I'm not naming any names), the warm, full bodied, and harmonically rich camp(you know who you are), And then MAYBE "the Neutralists"(it's what you THINK is neutral).
McGrogan is so right about cable modifying the sound to suit tastes/equipment and IMO it is suiting the "taste" of the equipment that is most important to keep in mind here!
Yes I believe you will love the sound the cable imparts on your system IF it works well with the equipment. For example, I can tell that cable x is really jiving with my DAC and cable y is sounding really good from preamp to amp. BTW...rarely ever are they the same cable in my experience.
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terry9, if you come here and take the cable I use as a preamp jumper on my integrated amp while I'm at work and you switch it with an inferior cable, I will most certainly notice... guaranteed. Absolutely positively. I tried it recently and my audio system was much less enjoyable. This was very obvious to other people that listen to music here on a regular basis. From them I got the "what did you do?" There was most certainly a decrease in the level of performance. Similar performance loss is apparent when I position the cable that I enjoy so much on the output of my DAC in between the preamp/amp. The magic is lost, it just can't do it.
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terry9, you can see the associated equipment on my system page. It is resolving enough of an audio setup for cable differences to be audible and sometimes shockingly different. It surprises me often the sonic attributes and shortcomings of difference cable.
An inferior cable in the system will always change the presentation for the worst. The words lifeless, unrefined, and uninvolving come to mind first when attempting to describe what happens to the system' presentation of the music with an inferior cable in place. It loses the ability to do its best work.
Performance lost is performance lost period. The presentation can be incorrect tonally, musical passages with lots of instrumentation can be jumbled and unresolved. Lyrical content can be more difficult to comprehend. Bass can be less accurate, too boomy or too weak. With inferior cable music can seem rolled off at frequency extremes and have less dynamic capability. These differences are real and many have experienced this. I can't understand why so many deny it, when the positive attributes of implementing well designed cabling is significant in my listening space. It took lots of trail and error and break in time is a pain, but in the end when you have cables that perform well with good equipment, the musical experience is certainly enhanced. The result is an accurately reproduced, expansive, and extremely lifelike presentation of the tunes that is pleasurable!
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Yes terry9, in some cases a cable will sound just fine. You would never know what you were missing.
I think some cables do act as filters, but not in the sense that most think. The cable is not filtering thru the audio signal, but filtering OUT all of the crap that is detrimental. Mainly stuff that comes in on the a/c line that keeps the equipment from optimal performance. I'm a fan of what ferox has done for my system as well as the Bybee products.
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Inna, yes I have used Proteus Provectus which are fluid filled and solid core using some combination of the metals you listed in your previous post. I experienced good results and I agree with your assessment of the qualities these different cables impart on the sound. This fluid filled cable worked very well from the Lampizator DAC to the McIntosh, and did mate up very well with the Venustas and other ferox cables that come later in the signal chain. The ferox insulated cables seem to provide the SOLID, WELL BALANCED foundation for the music with the dead quiet backdrop you mentioned, while the Proteus Provectus(fluid filled) cables offer the mid range "magic" (similar to a good tube amp or tube preamp)that will inject a very lifelike, multidimensional quality to the sound system. The Proteus Provectus interconnect, as good as it is, seemed slightly unbalanced in this system. I heard it tilting the presentation a little too far forward in the mid range and upper frequencies for my liking. Enter the Jade Vermeil Gold with Bybee purifiers to provided a truly special, spacious, palpable and utterly lifelike presentation of the music that works perfectly here with the ferox insulated PAD cables coming after. This gave me a real sense of LIVE INSTRUMENTS AND VOICES which is my BASE REFERENCE for what this sound system should be able to reproduce bjg. In my experience, this is what happens when cable synergy is there, and working its "magic" in the listening space with good equipment. One should have a "you are there"or "they are here" type of experience when things are setup correctly and this so called "cable synergy" is in full effect and playing music.
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Inna...yes all systems are different in one way or another. How is mine very different? Just curious...
I feel like the Jade Audio cable sounds a bit better from the Lampizator than Venustas does. But PAD excels between preamp and amp, and then again as speaker cable in this system. I've experienced best results with the last legs of cabling being the same. I can take the excellent foundation that PAD lays there and mix the qualities of the Jade ic, the WyWires USB cable, etc to get the sound I'm looking for. You see where I'm going with this. The full loom of PAD is still solid and well balanced, it's good stuff. Just kinda bland and lacking the liveliness, attack, and refinement in the upper end of the frequency range that WyWires or Jade cables bring to the table.
Sounds like you also enjoy the PAD cables Inna. Yes Dominus are incredible and had me drooling over the emmense soundscape. Dominus are out of my reach at present. If I had a loom of Dominus, my opinion regarding the mixing of cable brands might change Inna. They are certainly special and there's no denying it.
imjerrys, does all that linearity and perfect resolution ever get boring, sterile, overly analytical? I hope you are not trading off full bodied musical sound that is harmonically rich? It's so hard to have both in this hobby.
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Barking54...2 posts. 0 for 2 so far! Getting no respect for barking or trolling. |
@barking54
At this point in the thread, YOU have become the source of OUR amusement! Problem is, the more we get to know you, the less we like you. I am sorry you can't find a better pastime. The World Series is on dude, try that. Better yet.. go take a hearing test, that'd be a good pastime for you. Anything but Perpetual PaTrolling Please!
@jmcgrogan2
Odds are he's going 0-4.
wait for it....waaaaait foooorrrr it!
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barking, you are not doing us any favors. If you really want to oblige us then take the hate somewhere else. The knowledgeable, experienced guys have heard all of this crap before. Cable haters are a dime a dozen. What you have said here means nothing. A good majority of folks here know better, and have experienced higher performance from high quality cabling on many occasions.
Gonna say it again...A well designed audio interconnect, speaker cable, power cable, digital or USB cable WILL in FACT outperform your inferior cable in a resolving audio system setup in a proper listening space. Face it, deal with it, move on please.
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cvarivey, your statement couldn't be farther from the truth. It blows my mind that you actually believe this. No one here in the know will take you seriously if you keep this up.
No unicorns were harmed in the process of typing this post, only the egos of the inexperienced haters and the admirers of dielectric bling. Love to see this potentially informative thread get back on track. Sorry for the hater hurdles we must jump. |
Have to admit that I'm enjoying taking you to school barking spider.
You wouldn't know namaste' if it hit you in the yoga mat. Turn that Aiwa desktop system up and ride that keyboard off into the sunset big boy.
You are now 0 for 5.
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I'm thinking true audiophiles already know what's up. You can take that swing, but it's not gonna land with me. Still hating Randy? We can see you are being stubborn and don't have an open mind regarding the subject matter here. I guess you've heard it all already?
Experienced audiophiles know that the most well designed high end audio cables will out perform the average stuff by a good margin. They have heard it in well thought out and very high performing audio systems. If you have experience with these high performance cables and you have the other parameters down, i.e. the resolving high performance equipment utilized correctly in the proper listening space, sense of hearing that has not been compromised, and an understanding of how live instruments and voices should be presented, then you get it. It is here and it is real.
Hey, I do not discriminate! I enjoy MUSIC and an amazing listening experience as much as anyone! Man I'm always looking for an amazing cable that performs way above its price in my system. I recognize. I've enjoyed and talked up some of the great budget cables as well. Grovers, Clear Day, Morrow, Discovery, Anti-Cables are all good examples. Nice additions to most audio systems. I have spent time listening to all these and many more. Still have the Govers and the Discovery just because they are so darn good and inexpensive. There IS another level of sonic realism here folks and yes it's gonna cost you! If you don't want in that club... fine. Nobody's gonna force you, but don't knock me or others for attempting to discuss it on these forums.
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No Randy, wrong again. I do not sell audio cables or audio equipment... music lover/audio enthusiast here. My work is in the stone industry. I'm the granite countertop guy. |
Thanks John, always good to hear your thoughts on cables and gear. You've been a good guide for me(and others I'm sure) in the search for audio satisfaction over the years. It doesn't surprise me that you have used the AZ Absolute cables as well! Lol. I'll do my best to tell you what I think of the AZ Satori after these thick, heavy, meaty bastards burn in.
You know, this forum can be a very valuable resource for all types of audio enthusiasts and music lovers. These cable threads always draw a troll or two, but we the people will go on! We will always hurdle the trolls and side step the whiny dribble and angry droppings they leave behind. Sweeeewwwww. |
randy-11, Audiodom already has enough audio cheapskates. Amen dlcockrum. Love it r andy-11 comes from a long line of internet trolls. His father and grandfather were internet trolls. In fact randy-11 is the 5th generation of internet trolls in his family.
@jmcgrogan2 , this family is reproducing at an alarming rate and Randy must be like 6-7 years old. He's a young troll, he's got many years of trolling ahead. Hey, speaking of trolling, I'm going to Fontana Lake to catch some smallmouth. I'll return to this madness on Monday, I'm sure I can't resist. Hey what did you think of the Acoustic Zen Satori Shotgun speaker cable John?? I'm very interested to hear your and anyone else's impressions of Satori as I just picked up a pair! |
Randy, everyday of my life is a listening test. Go way!
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Where are you Budburma? Hopefully somewhere "hearing the humanity" in front of the Opera Callas. OR maybe on top of a Catskill peak barking at the moon. Either way...We need your input here, and I need more of your impressions of Sablon Panetela and the Western Electric 16ga wire that I have loved in the past with vintage McIntosh toooooob gear. Btw, I saw where the Dueland guy has made a copy wrapped in cotton, soaked in mineral oil, and then baked in an oven....no joke lol.
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I use the "eq" on my MA7000. A better way to describe it is a series of controls that provide me with up to 12db of boost or cut at 5 frequencies know to cause room anomalies(nasties). I use it to tune my room. Yes my listening room. That is how it was intended to be used I believe. You see there is a spike at 1500hz in here caused by I don't know what. I knock it down about 2-3db and perfecto! Good sound.
@yoby I have two pair of the Jade cables. They are awesome, no doubt about it. The move to an integrated made them available. Are you interested?
Randy did you attempt to bring freaking POLITICS into a cable thread on an AUDIO forum.....? There is a forum for that I'm sure and I bet they looooove to argue over there. I'm sorry man but that's just wrong. God help us all.
Thank you onelove for your comments regarding AZ Satori! Sounds favorable and the more I read on Agon, the more it seems these may be some of the most highly praised speaker cables on this forum. Most seem to love them. I hope they will be wonderful, but I have not gotten to burn them in yet. During initial hookup I broke one of the banana connectors on the amp end(7ga). Now typically I would re terminate these babies myself, but after closer inspection and considering possible future resale, I sent them to Mr. Robert Lee for some new Furutech spades. So Satori Shotgun will be back to me in a few weeks good as new, and I'll give my impressions to add to all the others.
Watch out McGrogan, the dawgs are howling again! And I'm not talking about UGA football. Carry on with the madness please. |
I think you're onto something here chrisr, because that is exactly what she said.
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Interesting idea and if it is indeed the better method, then expect to see "laser cables" in the future Obi Wan.
I don't get why you are not feeling the "fluid" chrisr. Seems pretty brilliant to me. I mean Jim Aud's concoctions(fluid,ferox,contego) used for mechanical damping of the vibrating conductor(among other things), seem to do the job very well in my setup. The result is IMHO, the most quiet cable in audio that I've used. I have heard the effects of all three brews in my system. All made positive improvements at the time of insertion! For example, the Purist Audio Design LE power cable jacketed in a bath of Jim's blend of fluid and ferox called Contego, gave a loud wake up call for me when used with my Lampizator DAC. I think John McG has experience with this cable as well? I don't know about him, but using this cable in my system produced a wow moment. I preferred it over the Elrod EPS Signature cables that were also very impressive, just not at the level of the PAD LE in my setup. I think it was the Contego bath that helped to create an immensely dense and powerfully presented field of lifelike sound. "Room boundaries be gone" type of experience. Incredible performance that is sadly out of my price range lately.
@ Inna..after all this discussion and your input, I am considering swapping in Poseidon ic from Lampizator to MA7000 for awhile. This would mean other than the WyWires Platinum USB, I would have PAD only signal cables, which is what you are doing if I understand correctly your previous posts. After hearing my system with PAD Ultimate USB, Venustas Luminist ic, then Venustas Preasto ic, to Musaeus speaker cable and Venustas jumpers, I am curious to try more PAD. So my question is Inna, can you give me impressions of Poseidon in comparison to Neptune in your system? or have you only experience with Neptune please sir? Gonna try debunking my own "do not loom" theory before it's all said and done. I also want to try the fluid/ferox combo again. In the past it was Proteus Provectus from DAC and Venustas between preamp and amp. I ended up preferring the Jade Vermeil Gold w/Bybees over Proteus Provectus at the time. Btw, WyWires Platinum and PAD Ultimate USB cables are both top performers here. Hard to decide betwixt these two awesome USB cables. Thanks Inna
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A blind test is just an averaged subjective test of what the average guy is capable of in a usually imperfect listening invironment. There is no best for all applications, so no one cable will be Champ all the time. IMO, there are better than average designs that perform at an obviously higher level consistently across the board.
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Anytime I insert new cable into the system, I let it play overnight and during the day while away at work. When I come home that next evening, the cables have usually settled in and are sounding the way they were meant to sound. Unless of course they are band spanking new, then 200-300 of playtime is typical burn-in time IMHO. Fact is, it takes time and patience with cables.
Thanks Inna for the feedback, love to hear more of your impressions of Neptune sound. I heard thru the grapevine, according to JA, they are the most popular cable in the Luminist line lately.
@chrisr Cable elevators are a must for my speaker cables. I hear less focus at higher volume when cables are left on the floor. Complex musical passages can seem jumbled together and the sense of attack and decay seem to be negatively effected in my experience. Interconnects don't make it down that far in my setup, but I'd expect the same from them.
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Ah ha! Another cable denier turned away from the dark side! Congrats, it only gets better from here and knowing is half the battle. |
