Yeah, let's talk about Higg's bosons too and their influence on what we hear. Could be interesting. |
Cables are components, just as important as active components. Your question is in essence incorrect.
Can you hear anything without cables? |
Well, of course, ideal cable should not alter the signal while transmitting it. But that's ideal, so any cable does alter the signal to a degree. The question is how do we want the signal to be altered since we cannot fully avoid it ? |
I said it before and I will say it again. In my view, cables should be at least one step ahead of the active components. In this case you can be assured that your active components are giving you everything they are capable of.
Cables as tone controls? Not a very good idea, I think, but can it be avoided altogether? I guess not. |
I agree with two school idea but I would categorize it differently. One school are those who want to hear it as it was recorded, good or bad. And another school are dreamers who want to hear it the way they want it to sound. |
Only broken active components don't care what kind of cables they are connected with. Just as broken hearing cannot know the difference, so the argument hearing is believing does not apply here. And if there is a situation of broken brains, then it becomes especially tough. |
Right. Nothing is wrong with either. But each must know his school. If you ask me, I belong to the school of 'realists' with an element of the dreamers' school. |
Waxwaves, you use Purist cables, all Ferox. Have you ever tried Purist fluid cables? Now when it comes to Purist it's a fun game, there used to be fluid and Ferox cables with both Ag/Cu/Au alloy conductors, that's, mostly silver, and Cu/Ag/Au alloy, that's, mostly copper. The newest Luminist revision has no Ag/Cu/Au with fluid combination.
I have original Colossus fluid speaker cables, Neptune Luminist Single Crystal Copper fluid RCAs, original Colossus Ferox RCAs, used to be fluid that I bought with Ferox, and original Maximus Ferox RCAs that used to be fluid in my set-up. Fluid and Ferox have their strengths, the analogy could be that fluid Purist, especially all copper, sounds like a tube amp, and Ferox like hybrid/warmer transistor. The Neptune that I recently got has an incredible deep and layered soundstage that I doubt any other Purist cable could match, and also exquisite slightly rounded highs. Other things being equal, Ferox may be a little quiter with tighter bass. So, no wonder that a number of people use both fluid and Ferox cables in their systems. Some would call it sound manipulation, yet others would call it fine tuning. I would not run all Ferox cables in my system but I could run all fluid cables, provided I had Ag/Cu/Au speaker cables. Single Crystal Silver with Ferox might give the ultimate resolution speed and bass and balance with great soundstage but it costs a fortune. |
Waxwaves, I never tried any Proteus or Dominus. Also, your system is very different, so no wonder it requires different Purist cables for the overall best sound. But I can tell that another striking quality of the Neptune fluid is its great balance, nothing is exaggerated or diminished, and it is neither forward nor laidback, great dynamics and details too. Unlike Colossus and Maximus Ferox RCAs, the former slightly exaggerates high frequencies and the latter - bass. But I must add that as it was designed, both Colossus and Maximus were fluid cables, replacing fluid with Ferox threw them off the balance a little. The Colossus fluid speaker cables are in my opinion better cables and work great in combination with all copper Neptune fluid. In time I will replace both Colossus and Maximus Ferox interconnects, I am just not sure with what yet. Probably original fluid Ag/Cu/Au Dominus or another Neptune would be best though slightly different choices. Just try to find used original Dominus, almost impossible. |
barking54, even your name is a noise.
By the way, Purist Ferox cables cannot be filled with fluid, unlike the other way around.
Waxwaves, Dominus, at least a new one, is absolutely out of my reach, as are many things. Gryphon Callisto 2200 integrated, as an example. It is almost never on the second market, there is one now, though. |
Speaking of kind of amusement, serious guys in another thread are discussing cartridge alignment. After so many years of turntables there is still something to debate on the subject, it would seem.
Just give me Studer deck and some reels. |
There are many 'audiophiles' who can't hear well. Some of them know it but won't say it in public, some don't know. There are also people who can't afford good stuff including cables, so some of them will devalue what is valuable but out of reach not to get upset too much.
Then there are imbeciles, plain and simple, undeveloped folks.
Whatever it is, arguing would serve no purpose. Those in the know know that cables make big difference, and great cables are always expensive. And they have the right to be. |
In fact, you never know how good your active components might be until you give them a great connection. I had no idea that even finely aligned and tuned Nak deck could sound that good until I put the Purist Neptune fluid cable on it. Some say that vintage equipment usually reacts less to cables. Well, I don't have enough experience to voice an opinion, but in my system I would say that the deck, the phono stage and the cd player responded just about equally. But, for already quite warm system Purist's Venustas or of course Dominus, both Luminist Revision, would probably be a better choice overall, though with at least the Venustas you would lose some of the Neptune's incredible soundstage and natural flow. Anyway, now that I got that cable I want even more than before to upgrade the active components it connects, which is unfair to them - they sound better than ever. |
Assuming all the same level, whether speaker cables or interconnects give bigger difference cannot be answered generally. Of the interconnects, it is usually the very first one that is most important. In my system that's the tonarm cable that goes from the cartridge to the phono stage. But in any case, I believe that speaker cables should be viewed as one element of the amp/speaker cables/speakers unit. On the other hand, the entire cable chain including speaker cables is a unit too. So, I think if you want the highest performance it does get complicated. Except for power cords I try to follow one brand approach but not one model approach. |
Thank you, Dave. With age I increasingly feel the gravity of the gravitational forces that sometimes reveal themselves in unexpected ways. I think, those bizarre so-called elementary particles, especially some of those little bastards, are beginning to get on my nerves, but I have no idea why. |
There used to be a top of the line for Japan only, I think, model in Purist Audio line where moving electrons were being hit by photons. Japanese swore by those cables. I am sure the science behind it is beyond me. Well, Jim of Purist is a former NASA engineer so he can have interesting ideas. |
He replies to emails the same day and recommended Poseidon, but I jumped straight to his best fluid cable.
I suspect that single crystal copper in Neptune and Corvus with the help of the fluid does something extra, there is a strong element of purity in the sound, regardless of whether you prefer this kind of sound signature or not, this cannot be denied. |
Dave, he won't laugh, but a few years ago when I asked him to refill my Maximus RCAs with fluid he only offered to refill them with Ferox, and that's what I have. It is still Maximus, in some ways better and in some ways worse than with fluid. Still worth it unless you are ready to get a new Poseidon. Now I have not heard Poseidon and there is no information about this cable. It is supposed to be significantly better than Maximus or Aqueous fluid. |
Ferox will make them quieter, will increase resolution a little, and the bass will be more poweful. The loss will be in the area of soundstaging and fluidity, but not by much. At least that's what happened in my system. Ferox is a sort of a macho stuff. In any case, give them 200-250 hours of burn-in time after the refill to sound their best. |
Waxwaves, I only have experience with Neptune. I don't know, maybe some dealer can loan you the Poseidon. Or perhaps you could ask Jim himself for an advice on how to audition the cable in your system without buying it first. I would be curious to hear his response. I too might get Poseidon later because I need one more cable and can't afford two Neptunes, or maybe I'll wait for couple of years and get another Neptune, I haven't decided yet. The price difference for 1 meter pair is something like $650. |
If there is a floor vibration - yes. I have almost none unless the volume is very high, I don't listen at such volume level.
Also, when installing fluid cables wait for at least a few hours before critical listening, they need some time to settle, even better wait for a day. Half an hour is definitely the minimum. |
