What should a high quality interconnect or speaker cable do to the sound of a system? Make it more transparent? Improve the sound stage and focus? Soften unpleasant highs? Tighten the base? Bring out the mids?
To me, a good cable should reveal more of what is on the recording and more of the true nature of my components. So when trying new cables, I look for more detail and accuracy without becoming cold and clinical. This seems logical, and yet after reading reviews and trying a few of the cables in the reviews, I find that the cables that have received glowing endorsements are not especially transparent or revealing. They modify the sound, but they don’t take me where I want to go. I wonder if the reason I don’t hear what the reviewer heard is that I don’t know what to listen for. Am I too focused on cable accuracy and resolution, and not enough on actual sound quality? Or is it just a case of no two systems sounding alike so why trust a review anyway? Thanks.
In addition, the Amusing fact is the figures a man gets on tests are the same with most of cables but the feeling of sound differs drammatically. Imho the "soul" of cable lays beyond the boundaries of physics and
can't be measured by dry figures of measurement devices. Continuing in this humoristic manner my imho sounds as silly as it is but that is why there are so many cable deniers that turning away from the dark side and that's why we have so many cables on the market..
This is an interesting and argumentative thread which often develops when the OP asks such an oblique question. I haven't seen much of GK posting, but he can be relied upon for contributing nothing but nonsense to the discussion. I will say that I just got a pair of Shunyata Venom IC's and the Venom power cord and both were an improvement to my system for not a lot of dough. I am a cable denier, but the Shunyata cords were clearly better than my existing cables, no question.
If you have a good components, it's almost a waste if you don't get good cables, in my case, for a long time, I tried to get away with less quality cables, it did not work, After many years I decided to buy good speaker cable for $1500 , I was shocked to learn how good is my system.True for those who can afford it, Go for it.My friend own B6 Elac connected to kimber 8ag , the speakers sounds unbelievable...
I aim for high resolution, clean, grainless sound which is natural, smooth, fairly neutral to slightly warm in tonal balance, harmonically rich, well balanced top to bottom (ie: not overly emphasized bass or rolled off top end) & well built. I use Jorma cables in my system which are made from extremely pure copper, ceramic, wallnut & pure, uncolored teflon.
I am very interested in those cables. Do you know what comet that was?
My plan is to bury then under the foot of Mt. Fuji for at 5 years to bring out the true sonic characteristics. Hopefully then they will make my crappy sounding system sound halfway decent.
Great great question.....I think that your cables should be a base line to judge all you components with. There are no fixes when it comes to cables. Some are bright some restrict the sound. These are just adjustments for a component that you are not happy with.
inna 2,828 posts 11-07-2016 10:38pm If there is a floor vibration - yes. I have almost none unless the volume is very high, I don't listen at such volume level.
almost none? I wouldn't think so, you know, what with the floor vibration produced by traffic, subways, Earth crust motion, those kinds of things.
Anytime I insert new cable into the system, I let it play overnight and during the day while away at work. When I come home that next evening, the cables have usually settled in and are sounding the way they were meant to sound. Unless of course they are band spanking new, then 200-300 of playtime is typical burn-in time IMHO. Fact is, it takes time and patience with cables.
Thanks Inna for the feedback, love to hear more of your impressions of Neptune sound. I heard thru the grapevine, according to JA, they are the most popular cable in the Luminist line lately.
@chrisr Cable elevators are a must for my speaker cables. I hear less focus at higher volume when cables are left on the floor. Complex musical passages can seem jumbled together and the sense of attack and decay seem to be negatively effected in my experience. Interconnects don't make it down that far in my setup, but I'd expect the same from them.
If there is a floor vibration - yes. I have almost none unless the volume is very high, I don't listen at such volume level. Also, when installing fluid cables wait for at least a few hours before critical listening, they need some time to settle, even better wait for a day. Half an hour is definitely the minimum.
Yeah laser will be the step up from the batteries slapped on cables i predict. It's exciting. Now do the fluid filled cables need to be lifted off the floor to sound their best?
If you don’t understand that, then you are doomed to live with a tin-foil hat on your head."
Wow! If you’re worried about confirmation bias you’re in a world of hurt.
But what I’m really driving at is that if a blind test results are negative what can you conclude? Nothing. Any test blind test or otherwise is just a data point. There are many reasons why a test might have negative results. So, that’s why you actually can’t point to blinds tests as proving something doesn’t work. Conversely if a blind test's results are positive then we can say, hey, this thing might have a shot! Follow?
Waxwaves, I only have experience with Neptune. I don't know, maybe some dealer can loan you the Poseidon. Or perhaps you could ask Jim himself for an advice on how to audition the cable in your system without buying it first. I would be curious to hear his response. I too might get Poseidon later because I need one more cable and can't afford two Neptunes, or maybe I'll wait for couple of years and get another Neptune, I haven't decided yet. The price difference for 1 meter pair is something like $650.
A blind test is just an averaged subjective test of what the average guy is capable of in a usually imperfect listening invironment. There is no best for all applications, so no one cable will be Champ all the time. IMO, there are better than average designs that perform at an obviously higher level consistently across the board.
Interesting idea and if it is indeed the better method, then expect to see "laser cables" in the future Obi Wan.
I don't get why you are not feeling the "fluid" chrisr. Seems pretty brilliant to me. I mean Jim Aud's concoctions(fluid,ferox,contego) used for mechanical damping of the vibrating conductor(among other things), seem to do the job very well in my setup. The result is IMHO, the most quiet cable in audio that I've used. I have heard the effects of all three brews in my system. All made positive improvements at the time of insertion! For example, the Purist Audio Design LE power cable jacketed in a bath of Jim's blend of fluid and ferox called Contego, gave a loud wake up call for me when used with my Lampizator DAC. I think John McG has experience with this cable as well? I don't know about him, but using this cable in my system produced a wow moment. I preferred it over the Elrod EPS Signature cables that were also very impressive, just not at the level of the PAD LE in my setup. I think it was the Contego bath that helped to create an immensely dense and powerfully presented field of lifelike sound. "Room boundaries be gone" type of experience. Incredible performance that is sadly out of my price range lately.
@ Inna..after all this discussion and your input, I am considering swapping in Poseidon ic from Lampizator to MA7000 for awhile. This would mean other than the WyWires Platinum USB, I would have PAD only signal cables, which is what you are doing if I understand correctly your previous posts. After hearing my system with PAD Ultimate USB, Venustas Luminist ic, then Venustas Preasto ic, to Musaeus speaker cable and Venustas jumpers, I am curious to try more PAD. So my question is Inna, can you give me impressions of Poseidon in comparison to Neptune in your system? or have you only experience with Neptune please sir? Gonna try debunking my own "do not loom" theory before it's all said and done. I also want to try the fluid/ferox combo again. In the past it was Proteus Provectus from DAC and Venustas between preamp and amp. I ended up preferring the Jade Vermeil Gold w/Bybees over Proteus Provectus at the time. Btw, WyWires Platinum and PAD Ultimate USB cables are both top performers here. Hard to decide betwixt these two awesome USB cables. Thanks Inna
"So basically, we could come close to the perfect cable by inserting a laser beam into the pvc jacket, which is doable with an optical fiber, preferably glass for near-zero loss. Now what copper gauge to use remains a question mark."
I found the perfect cable and perfect power cord. It’s Zero gauge cable. No, not 00 gauge, I use no cables or interconnects or power cords. As in Zero. I’m not a big fan of sub-atomic particle interactions. Think outside the box!
Yes, fat albert who kindly reminded me that the doppler cooling mechanism is very real and must not be ignored when hi-fidelity is the goal. You see by cooling the copper atoms with constant temperature fluids, you prevent the atoms kinetic energy to change if they have the misfortune to absorb a photon. Albert also suggested that the doppler cooling may not be sufficient, and we may benefit from a sub-doppler cooling mechanism know as the sysyphus cooling, which implies the use of lasers. So basically, we could come close to the perfect cable by inserting a laser beam into the pvc jacket, which is doable with an optical fiber, preferably glass for near-zero loss. Now what copper gauge to use remains a question mark.
chrisr 168 posts 11-04-2016 11:04pm Well, i am not sure at this moment, but i'' ll consult with my friend albert on this one, as it may be worth to enlghten ourselves on this potential breakup of elements.
Well, i am not sure at this moment, but i'' ll consult with my friend albert on this one, as it may be worth to enlghten ourselves on this potential breakup of elements.
chrisr 167 posts 11-04-2016 4:22pm Yea thanks maybe something really big I know, but I just don’t get the use of liquid in cables as discussed above,other than maybe for having an additional layer of control over photons’ energy? I have always thought that electrons traveling down a pvc-covered (or PE) wire could not be struck by a single photon and even if they did, the photon(s) frequency could not be high enough to change electrons’ kinetic energy, not to mention eject a single one from the copper. The work function is totally insufficient in this case imo.
well, just to interject, the electrons traveling down the cable can’t have too much kinetic energy to begin with as the electrons are traveling what, around a few centimeters per minute? And as the mass of electrons is also rather small the result is hardly any kinetic energy at all.
Yea thanks maybe something really big I know, but I just don't get the use of liquid in cables as discussed above,other than maybe for having an additional layer of control over photons' energy? I have always thought that electrons traveling down a pvc-covered (or PE) wire could not be struck by a single photon and even if they did, the photon(s) frequency could not be high enough to change electrons' kinetic energy, not to mention eject a single one from the copper. The work function is totally insufficient in this case imo.
Where are you Budburma? Hopefully somewhere "hearing the humanity" in front of the Opera Callas. OR maybe on top of a Catskill peak barking at the moon. Either way...We need your input here, and I need more of your impressions of Sablon Panetela and the Western Electric 16ga wire that I have loved in the past with vintage McIntosh toooooob gear. Btw, I saw where the Dueland guy has made a copy wrapped in cotton, soaked in mineral oil, and then baked in an oven....no joke lol.
I use the "eq" on my MA7000. A better way to describe it is a series of controls that provide me with up to 12db of boost or cut at 5 frequencies know to cause room anomalies(nasties). I use it to tune my room. Yes my listening room. That is how it was intended to be used I believe. You see there is a spike at 1500hz in here caused by I don't know what. I knock it down about 2-3db and perfecto! Good sound.
@yoby I have two pair of the Jade cables. They are awesome, no doubt about it. The move to an integrated made them available. Are you interested?
Randy did you attempt to bring freaking POLITICS into a cable thread on an AUDIO forum.....? There is a forum for that I'm sure and I bet they looooove to argue over there. I'm sorry man but that's just wrong. God help us all.
Thank you onelove for your comments regarding AZ Satori! Sounds favorable and the more I read on Agon, the more it seems these may be some of the most highly praised speaker cables on this forum. Most seem to love them. I hope they will be wonderful, but I have not gotten to burn them in yet. During initial hookup I broke one of the banana connectors on the amp end(7ga). Now typically I would re terminate these babies myself, but after closer inspection and considering possible future resale, I sent them to Mr. Robert Lee for some new Furutech spades. So Satori Shotgun will be back to me in a few weeks good as new, and I'll give my impressions to add to all the others.
Watch out McGrogan, the dawgs are howling again! And I'm not talking about UGA football. Carry on with the madness please.
Perfection is not an option. No cable exists that passes information exactly as it is transmitted. Therefore, people tune the sound of their system to suit their musical tastes. Whether they decide to use gear (speakers, amps, sources) to tune the sound of their system to their tastes, or cables/cords, is up to each individual to assess. I believe that many folks find it easier to change cables than to change gear when tuning their system.
Why not just get a equalizer? Much simpler if that's the true desire.
I want my cables to pass the signal from one component to the next exactly as it was transmitted. Can't understand how anyone would want anything different.
Perfection is not an option. No cable exists that passes information exactly as it is transmitted.
Therefore, people tune the sound of their system to suit their musical tastes. Whether they decide to use gear (speakers, amps, sources) to tune the sound of their system to their tastes, or cables/cords, is up to each individual to assess. I believe that many folks find it easier to change cables than to change gear when tuning their system.
I want my cables to pass the signal from one component to the next exactly as it was transmitted. Can't understand how anyone would want anything different. Guess I'm not an audiophile.
Ferox will make them quieter, will increase resolution a little, and the bass will be more poweful. The loss will be in the area of soundstaging and fluidity, but not by much. At least that's what happened in my system. Ferox is a sort of a macho stuff. In any case, give them 200-250 hours of burn-in time after the refill to sound their best.
Whatever Jim decides to do is fine by me. I have gotten my money's worth from these cables many times over. Maybe the Ferox will make them sound, uh, "Zippy"...
Dave, he won't laugh, but a few years ago when I asked him to refill my Maximus RCAs with fluid he only offered to refill them with Ferox, and that's what I have. It is still Maximus, in some ways better and in some ways worse than with fluid. Still worth it unless you are ready to get a new Poseidon. Now I have not heard Poseidon and there is no information about this cable. It is supposed to be significantly better than Maximus or Aqueous fluid.
Hey, I’m a NASA dude, too. All electromagnetic waves are comprised of photons. Photons like the ones in X rays and audio signals don’t have to be visible. They have varying uh wavelengths. The electromagnetic spectrum is much wider than the portion that contains visible light. It also explains why electromagnetic waves travel at light speed since photons are the only thing that can go that fast. Photons must travel at the speed of light! Hel-loo!
I haven’t heard any of his cables/cords since RMAF several years back. Fantastic sound and I am sure that his stuff is much better now.
I still have a 10ft pair of Maximus XLR ICs (using in HT system) and a 2m pair of Aqueous RCA ICs (used in vintage system). Antiques. lol.
I contacted Jim about 10 years ago (cables were ~ 10 years old then) about refilling both with his nectar. He told me just to sent them in and he would take care of it and pay return shipping. He did so, and quickly at that. Awesome,
They need another refill. I wonder if Jim can resist laughing when I call him this time.
He replies to emails the same day and recommended Poseidon, but I jumped straight to his best fluid cable. I suspect that single crystal copper in Neptune and Corvus with the help of the fluid does something extra, there is a strong element of purity in the sound, regardless of whether you prefer this kind of sound signature or not, this cannot be denied.
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