Esoteric K1 Grandioso.
Vinyl guy seeking recommendation for a top level cd player
I know cds are dead. Best time to buy a cd player, the way it looks. I want an all in one box. I don't stream so a separate DAC is not required. Most of my cd collection have been ripped to a PC as Flac files and then down loaded to a Sony HAP-Z1ES. Currently about 3000 Redbook and perhaps 100 SACDs. The way cds are being dumped I figure on becoming a buyer again so these numbers will go up. I have looked at Marantz SA10, Esoteric K1 (lightly used), and Luxman D-10X, so far. It would be good if the sound could approach vinyl. The Z1 does up to a point. Listening this morning to the same recordings, the Z1 compares to a high end MM cartridge, but not to a SoundSmith Experion. Maybe I am asking too much, but in any event a new cd player is being sought. Thanks in advance for any advice.
Bill
Bill
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I have owned almost all of the Sony ES players a Marantz SA7S1, an Esoteric K01 and now a Marantz SA10. The Esoteric was an outstanding player, but the SA10 is even better with a more extended and detailed high end and a better depth of field for a third of the cost. It gives my SME 20/2 table a run for the money. It benefits highly from a good power cord. I use a Harmonic Technology Reference cord. Good luck! |
Hey Bill - I only have experience with the Maratnz SA-10 - and that was only a demo at my local shop - so I'm not an expert. But I found it to have a warmer, sort of softer sound to it over other CD/ DACs I listened to. It's not quite as edgy when the mix is poor or the singer is off. But it has a very comfortable, relaxed sound to it. It's super easy to enjoy. Since you're the one who ultimately has to live with it though, I'd suggest seeing if your local dealer will allow you to evaluate a few players for a week or so at a time. My local guy here has allowed me to do that and it's been fantastic because I can hear what it sounds like in my system, in my room. No review, or blog, post, etc, can match that experience imo. You might also want to consider the Marantz SACD 30n - it's less than half the price, and that has had fantastic reviews. (Some who compare it to the 10) And, I am familiar with What HiFi - they do a lot of technical items, and they review audio components from very inexpensive to 10k or so. So, I'd "trust" a more audio only publication like Stereophile a little more, but I have found What HiFi to be pretty spot on with their reviews too. I hope that this helps you out and wish you the best finding what component you like most! |
I am just in the middle of the same effort. I came across a brand that I had not heard before … Ayon (from Austria). I am home demoing the CD35 and CD10. Tube output, PCM to Digital conversion, upsampling, slow roll of filter. I am very impressed. They are not uber detailed (a plus for me as too much gets in the way) but detailed enough for my taste, very musical and involving, great bass. Have a listen if you can find them. |
Thanks again to one and all. I will report back once I take possession of the D10X and get some time with it. In the end I think it came down to a choice between the Ken Ishiwata (Marantz) voicing, which tends toward lush mids and highs and more forward, versus the Luxman more analytical and more distant perpective. The Esoteric that was on offer was older, used, and I was afraid of it for that reason. Other suggested brands in this discussion were not available to me. I do have the right of return if necessary, but that is unlikely. Bill |
I have just done what you were talking about... I had an arcam sacd player but on cd it always sounded far worse than vinyl. I just bought a pro Ject rs2 cd box which is just a transport. This feeds a chord qutest dac and the result is amazing.... Easily as good as as vinyl like in enjoyability as my rega RP8 / apheta MC setup. As I have a luxman amp I was tempted by a luxman player as well but cost was a bit more and I had the DAC already. If you can demo one I would recommend... I was lucky enough to have a home demo for 2 weeks although I knew on the first 2 songs this was perfect.... 5 further 4 hour sessions just cemented that thought... Made tidal masters and ripped flacs from my Nas sound thin in comparison (using same DAC) It doesn't make sense but I like it.... |
I completely agree with ghdprentice. Just look at his post:This is from someone who thinks a modified Oppo is the best digital can do.Btw, I have been repeatedly dissatisfied and disappointed by digital for decades… the promise… the failure, rinse, repeat.He forgets to lather. But aside from that, well said. |
REGA ISIS VALVE cdp/dac https://www.tonepublications.com/review/the-rega-isis-cd-player-2/ “…. (1) Those worried about the viability of the CD format and getting your player serviced in the future, fear not. Inside the owner’s manual, there is a signature from the technician that assembled your ISIS, another tech that QC’d the electrical and mechanical systems and the tech that tested and archived not one, but two spare laser units. I think it’s safe to say that the ISIS will last longer than most of its owners and I appreciate this attention to detail, with CD transport mechanisms getting scarcer all the time…” ”…. (2) An outstanding DAC that happens to play CD’s, or the other way around? As the market for high performance CD players is probably nearing its end, Rega gives you the option to use the ISIS as a USB DAC as well. Personally, I’d love to see an SPDIF input on this player, but considering the recent success of the Ayre USB DAC, I’m guessing this is not a deal breaker for the current crop of audiophiles that are more computer based. While you might be clinging on to your shiny discs for now, the ISIS gives you the options to go both ways and that’s what makes the ISIS such a great value. The DAC performance of the ISIS was also outstanding when streaming files from my Mac Book Pro via the USB input, which is switchable from the front panel or the remote. The only serious drawback to the ISIS is it’s inability to read 24bit/96khz files and this may be the Achilles heel for someone wanting to make this player part of a more computer based system. With 24/96 files becoming the new standard, this will limit your music choices going forward. Personally, I see the ISIS in the same light that I do my Naim 555, a statement CD player for someone with a large collection of physical media...” |
Fully appreciate the one box approach and is a good solution for the number of CDs you own. If I remember correctly your Sony has Burr Brown DACs in them which were very popular and good sounding DAC. I concur with other to look toward an Esoteric of some flavor and would add to listen to one with an AKM AK4497 DAC chips in it. While there are other factors such as analog output stage design and transport that will have an impact on sound, my Linn streamer with their Katalyst DAC is based on the same chipset and it is simply the best DAC/Analog output stage I have heard or owned. Also - this could be your exit market investment in CD playback. Worth a purchase if you will get the use out of it. |
You can always identify a diehard high-end vinyl guy. Their ears are conditioned to a lifetime of listening to the best of what vinyl has to offer. Therefore, even the most pristine and capable digital playback will NEVER be acceptable to their highly conditioned ears and brain processing of analog audio. |
Well, I am sure your theory fits a few people. I happen to own a very high end vinyl rig and have 2,000 pristine and audiophile pressing albums that I have collected over a lifetime. My digital / streaming end sounds as good and sometimes better. With the same warmth and musicality. It depends on the components you own and in some cases... your personality if they conform to your theory. |
That's just a silly prejudice.
Correct. It's not an argument at all. It's just a silly prejudice. |
I am the OP to this thread and this is a follow up. To summarize and bring readers up to date (2/6/2026) , with many kind responses to my original query, I purchased a Luxman D10-X in 2021. They were in great demand and it took many months to get one as they were on back order. It was worth the wait. The Luxman expanded my horizons on many levels and continues to do so. In addition, I recently put together a new system for our second home and bought the recently discontinued Marantz SA10 for it, which I will comment on briefly a little later. As I predicted in my original post, it was indeed a good time to buy a new cd player. Although I remain firmly committed to vinyl, old jazz primarily, as the prices have steadily climbed and desirable records have become more and more difficult to find, cd reissues have become more widely available. It is not only possible to find long sought after and out of print records in the cd format, but often they include 2, 4 or even 8 albums by an artist of interest in 2-4 cd sets at very attractive prices. The sound quality is typically clean mono, really better than available vinyl choices which if they can be found at all cost significantly. So for that alone my cd player has undoubtedly paid for itself. But there is more. Dormant for years, the cd format has reawakened an interest in classical music. I have purchased the entire J.S. Bach canon as a cd Box, something like 180 cds, for ~ $1 each! Similar prices for tons of Early music, Vivaldi, Mozart, Handel, etc. All of the Mercury Presence recordings, prohibitively expensive on vinyl, but affordable as cd box sets. This has opened a new door for me. Comparing the sound quality of a pristine vinyl pressing with the same recording, mastered by the same engineer, on cd in Redbook, reveals the vinyl usually sounds better. Sometimes by a lot, sometimes by a little. SACDs usually sound the best of all. Usually be a lot, but not always and once in a while there is a turkey thrown into the mix. For the record, my best vinyl playback system is as follows: VPI HW40/Hyperion (stereo); Technics SL1200 GAE/mono cartridge varies; Consolidated Silver wire SUT, C-J ART Phono-stage. All in perhaps 4x the cost of the Luxman D10-X. Now a few words about the Marantz SA10. I bought it and it's matching PM10 amp when they were discontinued a couple of months ago. I paid approximately 50% of original list price for the pair. In round numbers that is about 25% of what the D10-X cost. The two cd players were exhaustively compared side by side daily for over a month. Using the factory settings, the SA10 has a slightly softer sound than the D10-X. Some would prefer it as the sound is easy to like. For the analytical, the D10-X offers greater detail, perhaps the way to say it is if you are so inclined you can hear further into the music with the D10-X. The SA10 can be adjusted via setup controls to sound more like the D10-X without ever quite reaching the same level of sophistication. But very, very close. I also suspect, by the look of them, the way they feel and function that they both share major components in their transports. Both units are built like tanks. For those who are in the market for a cd player right now this SA10, while still available, must be considered the wise buyer's preference. In spite of my assessment that the D10-X is the better of the two, the margin is very small, whereas the price spread is too great to justify. |
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@billstevenson Always nice to have a follow up post. Glad you are happy with your purchase. I have very much enjoyed my Marantz Ruby gear. I saw the close our pricing on the SA10. Tempting but I am quite happy with where I am at to be honest. I certainly agree with you on the CD bargains out there. Most recent purchase of a box set was Sir Charles Mackerras conducting the Prague Chamber Orchestra performing the Mozart Symphonies. Excellent in both performance and sound engineering! Get it. |
REGA ISIS VALVE cdp//dac |
"Sir Charles Mackerras conducting the Prague Chamber Orchestra performing the Mozart Symphonies. Excellent in both performance and sound engineering!" I have that set too, and could not agree more. Wonderful. I also should report that yesterday I was comparing the vinyl and redbook cd versions of Miles Davis' Kind of Blue both circa 2010 versions (not the latest and greatest) and the cd sounds decidedly better. So I have to amend my comments. Redbook cd can sound very good indeed and best vinyl at least sometimes. Finally, what's with all the spam showing up in this discussion? |
Thanks @billstevenson for the thoughtful follow up to your Luxman D-10x purchase. I bought a D-10x one year ago, and in my research prior to purchasing it I read this thread, so it is a treat to re-read it and digest the follow up by the op. I remember reading that the D-10x was especially good at making Redbook sound good, and I have to certainly agree with that. A lot of jazz and classical recordings from the 1990’s and 2000’s can sound amazing played by the D-10x. I still buy cds regularly and find releases from Japan online - both Redbook and SACD - jazz and classical recordings. The cd is not dead, and neither are the producers of superlative cd players such as Luxman, Accuphase, Esoteric etc. There is still a market for high end cd players!
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I could not agree more. The amazing cd is a veritable bargain at the moment too. The other thing that is interesting to explore is older cds marked AAD, some of which sounded...well let's just say there was a reason people turned away from the format, but now on these new players, which do magic things, a lot of the old cds sound very, very good. The Luxman is the very best in my experience, with the Marantz really right with it. I have no experience with others and cannot offer any comment outside of what I know I am sure there are others, but without a frame of reference just reading a rave is worthless. |
Wavetouch audio modded Oppo BDP-95 is the world's best CD, SACD, FLAC player. I've been in audio shows and stores. I've been searching on-line to find a better sound system. They all are sounding vague and bright behind veils. Audio signal is fragile and delicate. Unfortunately, all audio signals are broken right at the source in all audio systems. Only WT modded BDP-95 is done right. Alex/Wavetouch audio |
The Oppo BDP-95 is an almost 15 years old product made by a Chinese company that "In April 2018, OPPO Digital announced they were stopping production and development of new products but would continue to support existing customers". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oppo_Digital No matter how good a modded Oppo may be, it is a niche player based on a discontinued product by a company than now manufactures smartphones and not disc players. There are serious high end manufacturers of cd players who continue to push the boundaries and innovate such as Luxman, Accuphase, Esoteric etc. They are the present and future of cd playback. |
One of the things that Marantz discusses and that they patented is their circuitry that uploads everything to DSD. Presumably to do that there is an iteration process in their chips to fill in the missing data points. I am quite sure Luxman does something similar, they just are mum about exactly what they are doing. PS Audio also discuss this subject specifically related to uploading to DSD. What is clear is that the technology is progressing. |
It seems that companies like Accuphase, Esoteric, Luxman and Marantz are still supporting CD's which may make a comeback to some degree, especially when comparing the relative bargin to vinyl. It will be interesting to hear about the new flagship Marantz SACD. I have found the Marantz players to be a little polite in their presentation but never had the top level ones only a modified 8005 so the comparison is probably not valid. I will say that my Esoteric K-03XD is a wonderful player and they have voiced it very well without any etching in the upper registers. I usually use a violin as a test of the upper frequencies and if it passes that test we are off to a good start. |
Your finding that Marantz players are a little polite is a good way of describing the difference between the voicing of my SA10 and my D-10X. At least it is that way with the standard settings. It is possible to alter the sound characteristics of the SA10, though. Using your violin test, the way I might describe it is that the SA10 mimics the sound of a traditionally strung instrument, whereas the D-10X sounds like a modern tuning. Again that is alterable by changing settings for what they call "NoiseShaper," which is the digital filter, and Dither. Interestingly enough, even though the filter should not be adjusted for SACD, it can be, and dong so makes quite a difference. Fun to play with. The most important thing, though, is that the sound quality, particularly of Redbook, rivals analog and given the current price disparity that makes owning a good cd player a distinct advantage. Most of the music I am interested in is all but missing from the streaming services. Vinyl in good shape is getting more and more difficult to find and when it is found it is either in poor shape or it is crazy expensive or both. CD re-issues are becoming more widely available and at very reasonable prices. There is a reason that cd sales are on the rise. |
My modded Oppo BDP-95 recreates the original music better than any others and is the best sound CD, SACD, FLAC, MP3, MP4 player. I've been compared and I'll compare with any digital player. BDP-95 is discontinued many years ago but there are thousands affordable used BDP-95 units and parts for replacement. I'll support my 95 for a long time and cost won't be high. I modded BDP-95 for decade and broke many of them. My mod is risky and delicate job. I can make the better CDP with much expensive DCS or Marantz, but the difference is small and my modded bdp-95 is already far better than anything else. Audio gears should be judged by its sound. Alex/Wavetouch audio |
