Vintage tube sound from a modern amp

primaluna with old stock input stage tubes

I think the "airy sound" is what you get with a tube amp that doesn't stick to tube amp design criteria that have made tube amps famous.  

To get the classic tube amp sound you use point to point wiring, simple signal paths, and great power supplies.  the ones that are being mass produced use printed circuit boards, have complicated circuits with lots of things attached to the signal path, a swiss army knife of features, and the sound suffers.

Jerry

About as good of a mix of vintage sound and modern build.   Point to point to point wired ,  fully regulated tube supplies, built like a tank.   Overbuilt , heirloom quality that these pics can not fully convey. 

Cary used to wire their amps point to point.  I don't know for sure if that still holds true, although I think it does.  I do know that my Cary SLP90 (pre) is wired point to point, but the SLP05I recently picked up is PCB. 

@oddiofyl  , that one is a looker.  If it sounds like it looks, I bet it is killer.

Thanks!   It is candy for the ears too.   Check out Matt Formanek's other amazing amps at 

www.toolshedamps.com 

He is in the process of building me a matching DHT preamp.   This is my endgame amplification , it's that good.    

@oddiofyl Certainly beautiful. I wonder what the internals look like. I think I reached out before but didn't get a reply about internals.

Hi

I promised Matt not to show internal pics, he sent plenty along the build but those are "his" pics. He does have construction photos on his site and on Insta and FB that that speak to the quality of build. It’s first rate inside too.

No zip ties or double face tape holding things. He uses clever use of stand offs to mount all internals. Everything is done on custom made point to point turret boards

It’s as nice on the inside as it is on the outside, built by someone who clearly loves what he does ....

@oddiofyl kindo strange and frankly suspicious that he asked you not to post photos of the inside.  I work in an industry where intellectual property can be worth a lot and I've never seen restrictions like that.  I assume he asks all his customers to not post photos.

I have looked at his photos on his website and it does look nice inside.  He created g-10 circuit boards for certain parts that are point-to-pint, not printed.  clever.  

So unless your amp has some secret that isn't in the photos he posted, I have to wonder.  

If he does have a secret in there  it will get out eventually but I can see his desire to delay it as long as possible.

I'm just curious.  I have no intention of building amps to compete with him.

Jerry

Cary Audio for sure. If you want warm, syrupy and romantic I’d recommend the SLI-80 or the SLP-98. Way too much for me.

The photos on the site are a good example of what's inside.   Nothing secret in there, just honoring my word not to distribute pics of his work.   Which some of is a collaborative effort with Gordon Rankin.   That's all.   He didn't ask me not to,  it was just understood that I wouldn't be posting pics of his design, which is his IP.   

Sure these amps share a basic circuit design going way back , but this is his design.  You are reading way too deep into it.

This. I will not buy an amp using this type of construction. 

No zip ties or double face tape holding things. 

oddiofyl:

The build pics on the site (toolshed) are impressive - I like the use of sturdy standoffs.

I do see a few small circuits boards with the traces used, but don't know what their purpose is.

The casework reminds me of a fancy metal rolling paper case that I had when I was in high school.

DeKay

DeKay

Qualiton X200:  Very positive reviews for what they are worth. It's an option and I do really like the Toolshed Steam Punk look. 

@jerryg123 Is the Qualiton a vintage classic tube sound or is it more a modern fast neutral sound ?

@smodtactical More a classic tube sound. I also have an Octave V70 SE and it has a more "modern, fast sound"  

Match it with a speaker like the Sonner Legato Unum and a good digital and or analog front end and you are set. 

Dekay,  the amp is fully point to point .   The boards you see are most likely the filament regulation.  It is a discrete design.  He works with a few people , Gordon being one to make those to ensure ultra quiet operation.   A lot of amps that use antique tubes need him pots to make them quiet. This amp doesn’t.   You can put your ear next to the tweeter on a 99dB efficient speaker and it is dead quiet.  
 

Matt was great to work with.  It was an easy choice to have him build me another unit.   The preamp he is building me is even more anticipated because I know the quality and sound first hand.    You will never see either one of them for sale, I am sure of that.   

@smodtactical you should audition one. I am not sure who in Ontario is handling the brand. 

@oddiofyl toolshedamps is using Pete Millet stuffed circuit boards for regulation. 

He uses that and wavelength too.     What ever the parts, they are all good quality .Good execution...   my pre will use the wavelength boards as well.

@oddiofyl love your Toolshed Amp. 

Thanks Jerry !  I love this thing, definitely the last stop on the amplifier merry go round for me.  Only "con" if there is one is that I'm married to high efficiency speakers for life.  I doubt I'm using a watt with most listening  so the "first watt" school of thought is really at play here. 

Matt and I discussed a preamp early into this build.  About a month after i got the amp he reached out saying he was moving forward with the project and I said I'm in.   

Toolshed and Qualiton. You guys that own these amps really think they sound like “vintage” equipment? You do know that’s not really such a good thing, don’t you? Just curious…..

That Toolshed is full of vintage parts, NOS tubes and new 300b….   This amp isn’t rolled off at either extreme but it does have a beautiful tone and sounds phenomenal,  so yeah better than “vintage” I guess

@ozzy62 that maybe the case for you. Not me. I have 3 systems in my house well 4 if I include my workshop and I have the full gambit of gear. From tubes to GaN amps. I get to enjoy it all. How about you? 

Really doesn’t matter the topology, does it sound good? That’s all that really counts 

I’ll stick with this vintage beauty I’ve owned for 25 years. It’s going back to VAC for the MkIII S update in January 2023. It’s has worked flawlessly all these years.

@jerryg123 

I hope you haven’t confused me for a tubephobe. I love tubes. I can appreciate and like a good class A SS amp, but tubes rule my heart. I just don’t care for extra warmth where it doesn’t exist. A little to the right of neutral is good for me. Vintage sound misses the mark IMHO….

That VAC is a beauty for sure , that is a legendary amp....

Cheers @ozzy62 love the sound of all my amps, that’s why they are in my home. Enjoy your rig and remember it’s about the music.

But of course……..

If your looking for that classic tube amp sound and quality build then you should get a Decware amp.

iddio- she can share my room anytime!

I couldn't even get Decware to pick up the phone or answer an e-mail.   Three year plus wait?   I definitely made a wise decision buying this amp .   I would love to put this thing head to head with their 300b....    

Quicksilver amps are wired point to point, but they aren't as pretty as Toolbox. Aric Audio amps are wired point to point. Aric will customize to the specs desired also.

Not to dump on anyones product in particular but please beware tube amplifiers which have the tube sockets soldered directly to a circuit board. It is not a reliable construction over the long term especially for those who enjoy tube rolling. Heat and the mechanical action of pulling and pushing on tubes as you change them can crack solder joints and circuit board traces.

There are some very high cost amps with this construction and I am always surprised they choose this method. I would always prefer a product with tube sockets mounted to the chassis and then flying leads to a circuit board or even better true point to point wiring.

My Toolshed replaced a pair of Quicksilver Mid Monos.... the best value in audio at $2200 a pair !!! Huge value proposition with these amps. Yeah they are ugly, but they are all about bang for the buck.

I had them seven years, they were / are awesome for a 40 watt amp.... super reliable. Sound exceptional.  Still on the fence whether to keep or sell. They are built like tanks, I’m sure I would get a lot of milage out of them in a second system.

I think ampsandsound should go on your list. The pictures on their website show nice layouts, point to point wiring, turret boards, etc., and I’ve read they favor that older, classic sound. I’ve been looking at some of the combo headphone and speaker amps. The speaker amps are out of my budget. Not sure how it would compare to my PrimaLuna. I’ve been getting into headphones, but not enough to be willing to compromise my speaker system. I don’t really like selling any gear anyway.

DarTzeel. The tube sound from a SS amp.

I have a Cary Audio SLI-100. I’m a newb audiophile. My only real comparison was a McIntosh MA352.  The Cary was the clear winner at thousands less. It has more detail and clarity while not getting fatiguing at all. Very happy with the purchase. TheSLI-80 allows for tube rolling while the 100 does not. Decware did answer the phone for me but the wait was 18 months. 
I wanted a system that could slam and rock hard as well as handle jazz, vocals, acoustic stuff etc. Apparently the only knock on the old school 300b amps is that they won’t give you that big gut punch. I’ve never heard one personally. 

The first & certainly one of the all time greats in this category you’re defining is the McIntosh MC 275! “New  & improved”  version sounds Excellent, solid build quality & a timeless design. To me, in its power range of about 90 real watts/ channel ( as confirmed by John Atkinson) , it sounds more like real music than most other amps I’ve heard. Can be used bridged in mono for more power & they just came out with a higher powered version too. 

and The 275 is an excellent amp….   Seeing one at Best Buy the other day all dusty , and left on 24/7  was really sad    The Magnolia up here does a poor job representing McIntosh.  It’s pathetic actually for such an iconic brand 
 
 

Many of the fine examples offered are VERY EXPENSIVE.  The classic tube sound does not have to be so costly.  What's more classic than a Marantz 8 or its downmarket contemporary, the Dyna Stereo 70?  You can buy a brand new one with modern parts and upgraded input circuitry here:

Marantz 8 are costly…..  try finding a nice one 

They are rare ….  I was thinking the Dynaco too but nice ones of those aren’t easy to find and all need work.  

48pm

I’ll stick with this vintage beauty I’ve owned for 25 years. It’s going back to VAC for the MkIII S update in January 2023. It’s has worked flawlessly all these years.

This VAC Renaissance 70/70 amplifier in my opinion is a true classic and wonderful sounding. Very wise to have it sent to VAC and let Kevin Hayes do his thing.
Charles

That VAC is desirable….   Expensive to retube , but that’s the only downside to that amp.