Number 1 tweak for analog since 2011-2, Magic Eraser for cleaning the stylus. I suspect I have doubled the life of my Benz Ruby3 making sure to use this free tweak for almost a decade. Better than the Onzow. Use Disc Doctor stylus cleaner once per month to satisfy that the stylus is really clean to the cantilever.
Tweaks you got rid of because they were not effective (enough)?
There are some audiophiles for whom cost is no object; they buy what they wish and every single tweak and gadget which promises to improve the sound. And the industry is all too happy to produce such tweaks -- often made of expensive materials with elaborate engineering explanations. Those who question the value of these tweaks are frequently accused of being "naysayers" who are either too ignorant or insensate to realize that "everything matters."
Of course, money spent one place cannot be spent elsewhere; expenditures on tweaks take the place of other more central factors affecting the sound. In some cases, those tweaks are worth it; you can hear the difference, and that $400 (or whatever) really could not have improved your speakers or sub or amp, etc.
So, the question here is simple: Which tweak have you tried which, after some experience and reflection, you realized was either *not* effective or not the most effective way to improve your system?
Of course, money spent one place cannot be spent elsewhere; expenditures on tweaks take the place of other more central factors affecting the sound. In some cases, those tweaks are worth it; you can hear the difference, and that $400 (or whatever) really could not have improved your speakers or sub or amp, etc.
So, the question here is simple: Which tweak have you tried which, after some experience and reflection, you realized was either *not* effective or not the most effective way to improve your system?
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It is not technical progress in amplifier design, or in dac design, or speakers design that are the FIRST reason why a system sound great....( for sure nobody will debate that a better design is a better design) Top Amplifier of the past, or speakers or dac of the past, are good enough for most of us and can rival some new design in some case.... The reason why a system is good is not an accumulation of disparate "tweaks", it is the systematic implementation of some controls devices in the 3 embeddings.... And for sure, we may call that the 4th or first embedding, a synergetic pairing between themselves of the main electronic parts.... A good speaker with the wrong amplifier is not a good start for sure.... My 3 main electronic components has not been changed here for years, why then is there NO comparison at all between them before and after the rightful embeddings? Because this is the way to go, but most people dont even know what is the potential best S.Q. of their actual system.... Their only road for improvement is first and last an upgrading.... But an upgrading, except if absolutely necessary, must be the last thing to do to reach Hi-Fi.... My best to all.... |
@krelldreams, 'I’ve found, to ME, in my systems, nothing that has made a difference in sound that has compared to the level of difference I’ve heard/experienced with: changing speakers, changing speaker positioning, treating the room, changing amplifiers, or changing phono cartridges (roughly in that order). ... Tweaks that DO work are noticeable, and enhance the sound a bit, but I haven’t tried one that made me think; “Wow! I can’t listen to my music without this!” My experiences too. So far so good but then it gets tricky. @douglas_schroeder 'Tweaks are how you do not build a great audio system.' @millercarbon, 'Tweaks are exactly how you build a great audio system. I would even go so far as to say you cannot build a great audio system for any amount of money, it simply will not be great without tweaks. Sorry. You can build an expensive audio system without tweaks. You can even build an impressive audio system without tweaks. But you simply cannot build a great audio system without tweaks.' I think it's important to distinguish between what constitutes a tweak and what constitutes good system set up. I mentioned earlier the idea that an optimized $500 system might match a poorly setup $50,000 one, but assuming that @millercarbon is on to something, could it be even that figure was too modest? Actually I'd tend to agree but don't like the idea of equating good system setup with nonsense such as teleportation tweaks, magic pebbles etc. For example I think most of us would agree that a low noise floor is a good thing. Therefore wouldn't a million dollar (boutique) system placed in a box shaped front room next to a busy main road be at a serious disadvantage to a 500 dollar one placed in a near silent room which had asymmetric dimensions for height, width and length? Maybe that's the real question here, just where does good system assembly and set-up end, and the portal to audiophile snake-oil begin? It's obvious, as all audiophiles know, that you can't just buy a system and plonk it down willy-and hope for the best sound. You may get lucky and it may sound good, but on the other hand you might be putting up with seriously degraded sound compared to what your system might be capable of. I'd say that a room with good acoustics, freedom from electrical and other outside noise, and a degree of structural integrity is desirable. Speaker placement and perhaps some isolation underneath are also definitely worth experimenting with. What else is there? |
If it wasn't for the SR HFTs (32X), I would have had to buy expensive quadradic diffusion paneling from front and rear walls. If it wasn't for the two pairs of Hallographs, my Legacy Focuses would have remained unfocused sounding. Those are my essential tweaks to building a great sounding audio system. If I upgraded my speakers to Von Schweikert's upper priced models, maybe I wouldn't need Hallographs. |
I think tweaks are like clothes. If you only add, without periodically sorting out the "keepers," you will have a pile of stuff that either is neither useful nor beneficial. For me, it is mostly eliminating vibration control pieces. Adding is the easy part, like accumulating shirts and pants. The real work is critically looking at the whole audio setup, making subtractions, and re-evaluating the resulting sound changes. Less can be more. I might be the only one with this opinion, though. |
16 bands for each left and right with a toggle to notch each one up or down by 2 ( don’t remember if it was DB or...). I remember using it to tailor the sound in my room, and tweak, and tweak, and tweak never getting around to sit back and relax to the music. I did the sub crawl and discovered, happily, that a best spot for my REL was right next to my listening chair. That makes it easy to adjust the bass levels at the beginning of the song. Sometimes, no change is needed, but typically, a bit of dial-in is necessary. Based on what you relate, I better understand why Schiit made their Loki equalizer have 4 bands. It gives one enough to play with, but not so much that it becomes a distraction. Or, at least, it's less tempting. |
One of my most unutilized tweaks was a Sound Shaper III Equalizer. 16 bands for each left and right with a toggle to notch each one up or down by 2 ( don’t remember if it was DB or...). I remember using it to tailor the sound in my room, and tweak, and tweak, and tweak never getting around to sit back and relax to the music. Finally bypassed it and just enjoyed the music. every couple of months I got the urge to play with the EQ and most times I settled on the same wave shape attenuation. I guess the ears know what they know. of course, if friends came over and I played disco,the right side EQ controls were all at the top |
"And so it is not as great as mine, which cost less than the sales tax on theirs." There is a value in such systems. Actually, they are priceless. It is that pride in "I did it". According to https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367 it costs not only less, but much less than the sales tax on theirs. Unless they are in Delaware, Dubai, or some other location with D. |
Tweaks are exactly how you build a great audio system. I would even go so far as to say you cannot build a great audio system for any amount of money, it simply will not be great without tweaks. Sorry. You can build an expensive audio system without tweaks. You can even build an impressive audio system without tweaks. But you simply cannot build a great audio system without tweaks. Here in Seattle we have a system with over one million dollars worth of Wilson, D-Agostino, and AT. Very impressive. It probably could be a great system. But it has no tweaks. And so it is not as great as mine, which cost less than the sales tax on theirs. Please see my System page. https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367 There are many tweaks, not all equally effective but to take just one of the more average ones, cable elevators, everyone notices the sound field collapse when they are removed. The same or similar will happen if any of the many other tweaks are removed. Remove them all, I would not even want to hear it. For sure I would not be bragging about it. Minus the tweaks it would be merely another system, down there with the systems of all you who think tweaks aren't how you build a great audio system. |
Tweaks are how you do not build a great audio system.If disparate "tweaks" are not the way, ,money is NOT the only way to build a great audio system....I apologize to reviewers... :) I know i have one at cheap cost but great, not with a singular "tweak" or 2 but very great with listening experiments and cheap materials that i use to create a connected GRID of devices embeddings controls...Calling that "tweaks" is inappropriate....Tweaks are not connected by cables.... :) It is the ears and brain that matters most.... Money is not mandatory...I will not write a review of a million dollars amplifier, off course it will be better than mine, embeddings controls or not....But who cares about a half million dollars amplifiers? Or even a 100,000 dollars one? or even a 10,000 dollars one ? We, most of us want a good amplifier and we dont care about the best amplifier in the world because we cannot afford it anyway.... I prefer to make my 150 dollars vintage one sound near a 10,000 dollars one with the adequate cheap embeddings controls.... I dont read reviews anymore guess why? I dont buy "tweaks" guess why ? I sell nothing except the faith in your own creativity....The only price you will pay is reading my posts.... Perhaps it is too much to pay.... You decide..... My best to all.... |
@hilde45 Re below: I am talking floor standing speakers. So it’s speaker, Gaia feet, granite. @duckworp -- thanks. If I’m understanding, from the top down it’s: |
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Hahaha. Yeah, well, as I said.. I’m willing to try things out! I’ve not been constantly trying tweaks... just when I get an itch. Some I leave in place if I like the way it looks (eg.. wood platforms). I love It when I discover something free, or at a low cost, that makes a positive difference! Speaker positioning is FREE, and can yield a giant improvement! I try really hard to only focus on the music. Once a music lover finds great sound, however, it’s difficult to just be satisfied. Thus our “disease”! |
@krelldreams , Wow, 35 years of trying different tweaks and you end up here.... I’m blissfully content to not spend a lot of money on gizmos.All I can say is, me too! I have found in most cases, the end result of an expensive tweak can be accomplished simply and economically, and the level of sonic improvement is just not worth the big money paid for many of those products. One thing for sure, the dollars spent on tweaks and cables by audiophiles proves the Jedi have no monopoly on mind tricks. |
Great thread, great subject! I’ve tried numerous tweaks over the past 35 years.. there seems to be a tweak “epiphany” every several years.. and have I’ve found, to ME, in my systems, nothing that has made a difference in sound that has compared to the level of difference I’ve heard/experienced with: changing speakers, changing speaker positioning, treating the room, changing amplifiers, or changing phono cartridges (roughly in that order). Things I’ve tried and abandoned include: CD green marker and stabilizing rings, various platforms and feet under components/speakers, expensive cables of all types, expensive fuses, contact enhancers on cables/tube pins, weights, brass screws, little doo dads placed around the room/on windows/on shelves, trying different component locations on the rack shelf, lifting cables off the floor, power conditioners/AC purifiers, and likely many more I can’t remember at the moment. To be clear; some of the things mentioned did make an audible “difference”, but the difference I heard was deemed (by Me) to be more work, or more money, than the perceived improvement was worth... if the difference was even an improvement at all, and not a detriment. I typically have several systems set up around the house, and I try the things I try on most of them to see if the tweak is system dependent. It sometimes is. BUT... Speaker placement makes it easy to hear differences, speaker selection is very easy to hear differences, trying different amps on the same speakers in the same system is almost as easy to hear as trying different speakers. Tweaks that DO work are noticeable, and enhance the sound a bit, but I haven’t tried one that made me think; “Wow! I can’t listen to my music without this!” Just my experience, and I’m blissfully content to not spend a lot of money on gizmos. I’ll try anything though.. just in case! |
I just want to touch upon tweaks that did nothing or were bad, not equipment or cabling which I do not consider tweaks Green pens for CDs (did nothing?)/Use Walker Talisman instead Ferrite cores on speaker cables and power cords-sometimes worse Magico Q-Pod isolation devices, out of 11 different vibration devices, these would have been the most expensive and just made the sound like molasses-super yuk under every piece of equipment. Advertised to blacken the sound. It certainly does that, and slooooows it down. Auditioned only. I use lots of Stillpoints, Townsend and a Buckwheat pillow instead. Synergistic Research Black Box-no matter where in the room I placed it with 32 HFTs, it cut the highs above 8K (not just "cleaned up" the sound but cut off it's head). Gave it back. Sorbothane like vibrapod circles used positively (sorry) for speaker cable lifters above 90 oz. nylon carpet. 5% improvement for bupkis. PPT anywhere there are magnets. I still use the Omega E Mats and a few A/C caps where there are no magnets (power panels, isolation transformer and crossover area at rear of speaker). PPT works great otherwise in moderation for my system. Easy to overdue though in my system, works great in my friends system (no magnets). That's what I remember for now. |
From the article: "Given the magnitude of the difference in capacitance between a cable fully suspended and one flat on the ground, it’s unlikely that the frequency response change will be great (or possibly even audible), but there will certainly be some change." Roger Skoff seems to be making more of an academic argument than a practical one. I think that the layers of dielectric and shielding in my speaker cables are sufficient to make any current dumping from my carpet insignificant, to me. I would not say that people don’t hear improvements in sound by using cable lifters, I’m sure some people do hear real improvements. I didn’t though. |
As for cable lifters, there are some who've taken measurements and reported it. Roger Skoff explains it here: https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/bunking-cable-lifters/ He noted that the measured capacitance changed every time a speaker cable was lifted, foot by foot, until the entire cable was off the floor. He goes onto explaining why a floor becomes part of the capacitance equation and needs to be addressed. All the best, Nonoise |
Almost all tweaks have been abandoned. What has worked for me: Funk Firm turntable mat. OCC single crystal cable, van den Hul carbon is just as good, also no crystal structure. I have had a very positive result from a better than cheap power cord on one and only one piece of equipment. I use it on everything now but it only made a difference, but it was immediately obvious, on my preamp. I use no other tweaks now. |
Plane and simple. Better equipment will give you better sound quality. BETTER, MORE GOOD. Has nothing to do with cost.. BUT GREAT equipment will cost you more.. Unless you have a rich uncle, that gives it to you.. First rule... The best equipment you can afford. Don't start at the bottom and work up. Start at the top and work down. This includes cabling. Everything I use in my systems require NO cable upgrades, factory will work fine.. Speaker IC, XLR, RCA, good will work. Nothing too fancy.. First rule... As much room treatment as you can afford, or tolerate (if your gonna use a room) First rule...Protect your expensive equipment, maintain 120 VAC and a FAST acting surge suppressor. (Clean the AC source...Maintain the source) First rule...place you equipment and measure with a tape measure, then make MINOR adjustments. TWEAKS, what's left? Most of it sounds good one day and not the next to me... WHY? Well, the ol mechanic comes out in me... "That was BS", Cable risers work though.... Easy to clean under, and they do actually work, just takes a couple hours for me to hear the difference.. I knock a block over and don't see it, then stand up the riser. After a settling time. I hear the difference.. ANY vibration control is good. Over dampen a room.. A problem in a LOT of rooms... Regards |
@hilde45...
Spikes were OK but the big improvement happened by placing cheap granite kitchen chopping boards under the speakers and then Isoacoustic Gaia feet under the speakers, resting on the granite. This made a massive improvement to bass and the overall sound image. |
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No comment on Vibrapods’ efficacy, but the nasty residue can be prevented by placing a piece of plastic sandwich baggie between the Vibrapod and surface. Same with sorbothane. Perhaps Vibrapods are made of sorbothane? I have sorbothane hemisphere rubber bumpers under my speakers. They are sticky and would leave a residue. Just wrap them in clear plastic food wrap! |
One thing that has always worked in improving the sound has been buying more expensive equipment. I have not tried as many things as some here, but aside from changing the room (furniture placement and numbers, rugs, etc.) nothing else made a difference. Cables (power, USB, speaker) did nothing for sound, but surely made it neater, once appropriate lengths were chosen. |
A word about the "alleged" or "disproved" effect of a tweak... The audible effect of "tweak" will vary greatly if the tweak is implemented in an already controlled environment or not... I will not discuss here the relative hability in each of us relative to our listening experience and possibility that may impact also the alleged absence or presence of audibles effects... I will only speak about the big difference the addition of a device control or of a tweak in a controlled environment OR in a non controlled one... I will give an example about the acoustic room embedding.... A single piece of aluminum paper 1 feet 1/2 feet by 3 feet long, placed at the right spot in a controlled acoustical embedding may change drastically the S.Q. of a specific room, I know because i just do that today for the better in my room.... But if someone glued the same piece of aluminum paper in a non controlled acoustical environment, a nude room, the perceived positive or negative effect audible effect will probably be negligible...It will be the samething if the sheet is glued to a different treated room or to a different spot....I*n these cases the effect can be negative or negligible also... The same thing is true if the audio system three embeddings are controlled in some way, the addition of some new device or tweak or materials will be more easily audible negatively or positively.... Then before formulating definitive judgment about a product, ask yourself why the product produce this or that effect in YOUR audio system first, before condemning it at all and definitively.... Another example: i bought springs boxes (chinese version of Nobsound one) At first it seems a very good improvement from my own multi-layered sandwich platform and it was....But it is a positive improvement only if you adjust the compressing force on the springs very precisely... I do it... But after few days i realized that this isolation device dont adress the problem of internal resonance of the speaker and that the springs boxes also imply a kind of trade off... I decide to make something new with these springs...I put another set of springs on top of my speakers under the load (75 pounds) that damp the speakers...That create an asymmetry in the compressing force of the 2 set of boxes, those under the speakers and those on top... The compressing force is greater on the springs boxes directly under the speaker because the speaker weight is added to them.... Then this asymmetry help to decrease the powerful negative unsuspected effect of internal resonance of the speaker.... The results were astounding, it was not only the bass frequencies and high frequencies that were better now, it was the naturalness of the timbre and the 3-d imaging power.... Then any addition of a device or of a "tweak" is perceived differently in different controlled or non controlled environment, and judge differently.... And most tweaks are not a perfect solution but give us a trade-off, then to increase the positive effect, it is necessary to create a better controlled environment making us able to DETECT first the positive or negative nature of any change and make us able to MANAGE the trade-off....And tweak are there to be modified and improved also.... This is my experience... My best to all.... |
No comment on Vibrapods’ efficacy, but the nasty residue can be prevented by placing a piece of plastic sandwich baggie between the Vibrapod and surface. Same with sorbothane. Perhaps Vibrapods are made of sorbothane?I'm pretty sure that's exactly what they are. I put some construction paper between them and components, but only after they left stains on one of my components. I stopped using them. I've had better luck using hockey pucks. |
I have tried a number of tweaks over the years but few have remained in my system. They might sound good one day and sound worse the next. The ones that have survived are based on sound Engineering concepts like resonance and vibration control. Also, sometimes a tweak to address problem A introduces problem B. A good example of this is the use of ferrite cores on power cords. They do reduce the amount of RF coming in on the AC supply but, unfortunately, increase the AC source impedance as seen by the device. Power amps (and integrated amps) are susceptible and may become current-starved during dynamic conditions with a negative effect on sound quality. |
Well, upon urging from some on this thread, I just lifted my speaker cables off the floor (tile and carpet) using wooden blocks about an inch across and two inches high, four blocks per side. I listened, put the blocks under the cables, listened again, took the blocks out, and listened again. I did not hear any difference. |
No disrespect meant to your theories and conclusions, it’s just that you’re correcting a mistake that no one is making, and then going into a lot of detail about ALL the things that are involved. It feels a bit patronizing.I understand what you say....But it is difficult for me to think you are completely right, because that mistake you say nobody is doing is pervasive in all audio threads... Who amongst all here , how many knowns by experience, that there is NO comparison at all between an audio system before and after a rightful embeddings installation controls in the 3 dimensions? I apologize if i seems to patronize, but my reading of audio forums in the last 7 or 8 years to create my audio system, persuade me that the majority of people really think that buying a new piece of electronic equipment is the main way to create audio heaven..... Nevermind what i just said, i understand that my posts can annoy some and i apologize for that....But the truth is my rant adress a real problem also....It is my only excuse for ranting.... My best regards to you OP.... |
To my surprise in all audio threads in all forums, no one has a concept about that, they speak about "tweaks" yes....But a "tweak" is a partial solution and sometimes a trade-off with negative effects, and above all a tweak is vulnerable to placebo effect the day of their evaluation Yes, well, of course. The word tweak already implies it's not the whole solution. I mean, who'd think *that*? No disrespect meant to your theories and conclusions, it's just that you're correcting a mistake that no one is making, and then going into a lot of detail about ALL the things that are involved. It feels a bit patronizing. |
