It is not technical progress in amplifier design, or in dac design, or speakers design that are the FIRST reason why a system sound great....( for sure nobody will debate that a better design is a better design)
Top Amplifier of the past, or speakers or dac of the past, are good enough for most of us and can rival some new design in some case....
The reason why a system is good is not an accumulation of disparate "tweaks", it is the systematic implementation of some controls devices in the 3 embeddings.... And for sure, we may call that the 4th or first embedding, a synergetic pairing between themselves of the main electronic parts.... A good speaker with the wrong amplifier is not a good start for sure....
My 3 main electronic components has not been changed here for years, why then is there NO comparison at all between them before and after the rightful embeddings?
Because this is the way to go, but most people dont even know what is the potential best S.Q. of their actual system.... Their only road for improvement is first and last an upgrading.... But an upgrading, except if absolutely necessary, must be the last thing to do to reach Hi-Fi....
My best to all....
|
Tweaks are how you do not build a great audio system. If disparate "tweaks" are not the way, ,money is NOT the only way to build a great audio system....I apologize to reviewers... :) I know i have one at cheap cost but great, not with a singular "tweak" or 2 but very great with listening experiments and cheap materials that i use to create a connected GRID of devices embeddings controls...Calling that "tweaks" is inappropriate....Tweaks are not connected by cables.... :) It is the ears and brain that matters most.... Money is not mandatory...I will not write a review of a million dollars amplifier, off course it will be better than mine, embeddings controls or not....But who cares about a half million dollars amplifiers? Or even a 100,000 dollars one? or even a 10,000 dollars one ? We, most of us want a good amplifier and we dont care about the best amplifier in the world because we cannot afford it anyway.... I prefer to make my 150 dollars vintage one sound near a 10,000 dollars one with the adequate cheap embeddings controls.... I dont read reviews anymore guess why? I dont buy "tweaks" guess why ? I sell nothing except the faith in your own creativity....The only price you will pay is reading my posts.... Perhaps it is too much to pay.... You decide..... My best to all.... |
A word about the "alleged" or "disproved" effect of a tweak...
The audible effect of "tweak" will vary greatly if the tweak is implemented in an already controlled environment or not...
I will not discuss here the relative hability in each of us relative to our listening experience and possibility that may impact also the alleged absence or presence of audibles effects...
I will only speak about the big difference the addition of a device control or of a tweak in a controlled environment OR in a non controlled one...
I will give an example about the acoustic room embedding....
A single piece of aluminum paper 1 feet 1/2 feet by 3 feet long, placed at the right spot in a controlled acoustical embedding may change drastically the S.Q. of a specific room, I know because i just do that today for the better in my room....
But if someone glued the same piece of aluminum paper in a non controlled acoustical environment, a nude room, the perceived positive or negative effect audible effect will probably be negligible...It will be the samething if the sheet is glued to a different treated room or to a different spot....I*n these cases the effect can be negative or negligible also...
The same thing is true if the audio system three embeddings are controlled in some way, the addition of some new device or tweak or materials will be more easily audible negatively or positively....
Then before formulating definitive judgment about a product, ask yourself why the product produce this or that effect in YOUR audio system first, before condemning it at all and definitively....
Another example: i bought springs boxes (chinese version of Nobsound one)
At first it seems a very good improvement from my own multi-layered sandwich platform and it was....But it is a positive improvement only if you adjust the compressing force on the springs very precisely... I do it...
But after few days i realized that this isolation device dont adress the problem of internal resonance of the speaker and that the springs boxes also imply a kind of trade off... I decide to make something new with these springs...I put another set of springs on top of my speakers under the load (75 pounds) that damp the speakers...That create an asymmetry in the compressing force of the 2 set of boxes, those under the speakers and those on top... The compressing force is greater on the springs boxes directly under the speaker because the speaker weight is added to them.... Then this asymmetry help to decrease the powerful negative unsuspected effect of internal resonance of the speaker.... The results were astounding, it was not only the bass frequencies and high frequencies that were better now, it was the naturalness of the timbre and the 3-d imaging power....
Then any addition of a device or of a "tweak" is perceived differently in different controlled or non controlled environment, and judge differently.... And most tweaks are not a perfect solution but give us a trade-off, then to increase the positive effect, it is necessary to create a better controlled environment making us able to DETECT first the positive or negative nature of any change and make us able to MANAGE the trade-off....And tweak are there to be modified and improved also....
This is my experience...
My best to all.... |
No disrespect meant to your theories and conclusions, it’s just that you’re correcting a mistake that no one is making, and then going into a lot of detail about ALL the things that are involved. It feels a bit patronizing. I understand what you say....But it is difficult for me to think you are completely right, because that mistake you say nobody is doing is pervasive in all audio threads... Who amongst all here , how many knowns by experience, that there is NO comparison at all between an audio system before and after a rightful embeddings installation controls in the 3 dimensions? I apologize if i seems to patronize, but my reading of audio forums in the last 7 or 8 years to create my audio system, persuade me that the majority of people really think that buying a new piece of electronic equipment is the main way to create audio heaven..... Nevermind what i just said, i understand that my posts can annoy some and i apologize for that....But the truth is my rant adress a real problem also....It is my only excuse for ranting.... My best regards to you OP.... |
oldhvymec I had try to be clear about my way to see this hobby.... But you are right, the world is more vast than the way we see it each one of us.... My best regards to you.... |
"a controlled electrical field". "embedding"
Lord help us all.. For example unused wall plugs in your audio room are part of the electrical grid of your house.... Putting some device on them ( some sell their devices and i create mine) is only a step in controlling the electrical grid noise floor of the house.... I would had better wrote " electrical grid noise floor controls".... But anyway what i speak about is clear.... The word "embedding" is for describing the way any audio part is immersed and connected to all the electrical grid of the house and more.... Thanks for the correction.... |
@mahgister,
’Any system at any price must be put in a controlled mechanical dimension, in a controlled electrical field, and in a controlled acoustical environment... This is what i call an embedding...’
I don’t think anyone is arguing with that in principle. Surely it’s only a question of degree. You are right nobody can argue against this.... I put together these 3 dimensions and called that "embeddings"... To my surprise in all audio threads in all forums, no one has a concept about that, they speak about "tweaks" yes....But a "tweak" is a partial solution and sometimes a trade-off with negative effects, and above all a tweak is vulnerable to placebo effect the day of their evaluation .... But a trail of listenings experiments, with incremental improvement in the 3 embedding dimensions each weeks for 2 years like mine, i would not call that "Tweaks", i called that embeddings controls installation....Embeddings controls are NOT secondary addition to the system, like "tweaks", they are the MAIN object of an audiophile pursuit... Choosing an electronic component is important, but embedding it rightly is at least at the same level of priority.... My point is any relatively good basic audio system sound at his utmost potential S.Q. ONLY if rightly embedded... My other point is UPGRADING anything before listening first to the truest potential of what we already own is most of the times illusion and deception programmed... My last point is the embedding process is NOT a secondary tweaking, but is the fundamental course to take in audio experience, most important than ANY upgrade of an electronic component....If you want to know what you are doing without throwing money to the universal hyped advertisement campaings in all forums.... Audio is not about the "taste" for a product among the millions there are, it is about how to learn to listen music and sounds..... My regards to all.... « It is not enough to see what we hears, we must listen with our eyes»- Groucho Marx |
Just a remark about my 500 hundred audio system...
I never pretend that it will sound on par with a 50,000 dollars one...
I say that a 500 hundred dollars one rightly embed may sound so great that you will forget about the urge to buy a better one...Music in 3-d is music in 3-d with + or - details....
I also said give me the 50,000 dollars one and i will do the same creative embedding process with it.... Any system need to be in the conditions for his optimal working S.Q. And these conditions are not only sound electronical design to begin with, but necessary embeddings minimal controls installation...
Any system at any price must be put in a controlled mechanical dimension, in a controlled electrical field, and in a controlled acoustical environment... This is what i call an embedding... Tweaks are not an incremental listening set of experiments with appropriate creative adapted and suitable homemade devices... They are ready made costly products sold for profit and generically conceived for all....My embeddings devices are modified idea coming from others or my own ideas adapted for my specific need.... Branded costly products are not for me.... I succeeded my way....
And there is no placebo effect in an incremental process of improvement distributed in 2 years of listenings experiments... With a singular tweak in one listening trying a placebo effect is possible yes....
All my post are posts i would have love to read 7 years ago when Hi-Fi experience was for me inaccessible and costly... I want to give hope enthusiasm and impulse towars creativity to the beginners.... The supposed fact that hi-fi experience is very costly is false and it is a myth.... Any rightly embed system may be Hi-Fi experience at peanuts costs... That is not saying that there is no difference between cheap electronic components or design and great one.... I am nut perhaps but not stupid....
:) |
I made a thread about my simple homemade experiments... It is easy to find.... :)
Thanks for your offer for another system free of charge....
I think it is simple to understand that any part of an audio system vibrate and produce internal resonance... Any component at any price...
It is also simple to verify that ANY electrical grid in any house create a too high level of noise...
It is simple also to verify the impactful change that any materials can produce in a room acoustically...
Calling them " embeddings" is a simple way to resume the 3 dimensions in a single concept or word...
My best regards to you.....I will stay silent for the rest of this thread....I hate to annoy people....
|
If you dont have the concept of "electricity" how can you explain and perceive adequately the spontaneous dead frog legs movement?
It this intellectualism?
If so i apologize and will let the thread rest.... :)
Audio is not only and mainly about "tastes" there exist some simple facts and concepts...."tweaks" are not a matter of taste.... And the demarcation between what makes a system work and what improve it is NOT a clear line....
My E... concept adress elementarily what it is necessary to do for an audio system to work adequately at his utmost potential...
|
Not only we dont have a definition of what a "tweak" is, but it seems that we dont even have a clue about a simple fact:
how can anyone could be able to perceive some change and qualify it positive or negative change, with an audio system that is not mechanically controlled for resonance/vibrations, that is located in a house where the noise floor is high like most houses, and where the acoustic controls of the room is inexistant?
I will not even speak about regular uneducated ears who accept to live with such an audio system , i dont have any other word: a badly E.... system.....People then succumbs to temptation of a costly upgrade for solution to their deficient E....Or they buy a ready made costly "tweaks", nevermind the word definition....
I cannot use the word E....in this thread, the reader must read my past posts to guess it....
:)
A philosophical simple point: when we dont have an adequate CONCEPT for a reality or for a phenomenon, we cannot adequately PERCEIVE it...
This is epistemology for children.....
:)
A "tweak" is a ready made identical solution product for all audio system, room, and house ....
A control device for one of the 3 E... is a specific partial solution inscribed in a set of step by step listening experiments ....
Calling my devices homemade controls "tweaks" is simply confuse an object with a concept and a method....
Is it not clear?
|
:)
Oups! i am not sure that the polarity of my speakers has been change today by the way.... It is you?
:) |
Because tweaks are not always major improvement, or even improvement at all for some ears , and sometimes costly, some conclude :"snake oil"...
The human mind is sometimes too swift to make a conclusion...
And some other advise to upgrade....But most people had already good components and the truth is that they never listen to them at their potential maximum level ever in the first place.... Because they are badly embed in the system, in the room, and in the house, mechanically, electrically and acoustically....
My friends the truth is not so simplistic at all....
The alternative is not this simplistic motto :
"snake oil" purchase or upgrading....
Some sheep buy "snake oil" and other sheeps upgrade....But we are no more sheeps if we wanted to....
Be creative....And think about the way any components must be EMBED rightfully to gives his utmost S.Q.
Are you able to think?
:)
|
From exotic cables, to spikes, to fancy mains leads, to various cones, excessive contact cleaning /enhancements, various wall shelves, deep freezing CDs (yes, even that!) none of them were worth anything more than the initial thrill of trying and hoping.
Eventually the penny dropped. My point is precisely that, "tweaks" are deceptive often because there is a world difference between a minor improvement with a costly product, and an incremental improvement one step at a time always in the same direction because of our listenings experiments about each embeddings dimension.... A tweak is NOT a method nor a methodical set of experiments.... It is a very partial solution on a deeper problem, i call the problem an embedding.... By the way even the springs boxes i bought were unsufficient by themselves....It was necessary for me to double the 4 boxes and put an heavy load to compress asymmetrically the sets on top and under the speakers....( something the sellers will not reveal if even he know it because this solution is impractical for most anyway). Then springs are good but not sufficient used like most want to use them directly under the speakers only...They improve the isolation yes but dont solve all the problems linked to the isolation and to the internal resonance by themselves out of the box.... No ready made tweak is more than a beacon on the road we must take by ourselves to improve the embedding (mechanical,electrical or acoustical) I dont trust now any product more than my own ears and it is my ears that guide me to correct sometimes the product ..... I pay only peanuts and after 2 years my system is now relatively at my saisfaction and i can listen to any music with a perfect details imaging and natural timbre....My system (500 hundred bucks in all) is a "mini" top of the world audio system, thanks to an incremental sets of improvements each weeks for the last 2 years.... No tweak for me thanks i prefer to improve them my own way or replicate them or create some new one at no cost.... I succeed.... Then dont upgrade before embedding what you already own if it is some already good components... :) |
I bought only 2 ready made products(used) with a good reputation few years ago before i started my own set of experiments...Bybee one and Alan Maher.....They made a small difference...Enough to convince me about the importance of the electrical noise floor embeddings...
But this small benefit was for me expansive...
I explore for myself other solutions and with the months passing, i discover many unorthodox way to replicate some results of very costly products ( Bybee for example use some crystals)...
After 2 years i discover that there exist 3 embeddings dimensions and that no tweaks can solve all the three and even one by itself...
I then explore these 3 dimensions with a systematic listenings experiments course of my own discoveries...
NO tweaks can solve all embeddings problems, you must solve them one by one by listening and move a step at a time....
The good news is that i paid peanuts for all my created homemade devices and what i bought new was revised and modified and paid also peanuts...
People who speak about tweaks wait for a simple solution to a complex problem, easy to solve by listening experiments and cheap materials....but there is no simple ready made solution that will replace your EARS listening experiments...
The 3 embeddings are the mechanical resonance/vibrations problems, the electrical general noise floor, and the acoustical passive and active dimensions...
You must adress each one by listening first....Not buying....
Example: i bought springs boxes to put under the speakers on top of my own multi layered sandwiche isolation platform....They made at peanuts price a difference.... But after listening i discover the weakness of this spring isolation idea ( they dont affect the desctructive internal resonance).... I decide to finetune it and put a second set of springs boxes on top of the speakers and under a heavy load.... The difference of compression between the 2 sets of springs boxes, one under the speakers and the other one on top of the speakers and directly under the load made a great improvement, decreasing the internal speakers resonance....Then an apparent solution(springs) revealed itself unsufficient by listening experiments, and was revised and greatly improved by the listening experiments....
And trust me the mechanical embedding is as important as the other 2 embeddings, unbeknownst to most....
Ready made tweaks are never a solution by themselves, only a pointer to a true solution that you must create yourself for your particular system and house and ears.....The good news is it is useless to pay much money, all is easy to replicate or be inspired and create your own devices....
Dont upgrade, dont buy anything costly, think and embed everything one step at a time....
True hi-fi cost peanuts if you know how to listen attentively....
It is not so much the price paid that define a true audiophile system, it is first the way the system is embedded in the 3 dimensions.... There is NO comparison between the same system before and after the rightful embedding process...NONE....
Not knowing that, people unsatisfied, upgrade toward costly new hyped electronic component or costly "tweaks"....
:) |
