Turntable suggestions for a newbie

@grislybutter said "Maybe vinyl is not dead, after all..."

I firmly believe that one day, maybe in 50 years, maybe in 150 years, vinyl will be played on the moon and on Mars and listened to via a tube amp. ;-)

Passed water test!!

I had a VPI scout and used it for about 20 years.  VPI may not be a good choice if you like to switch cartridges (I currently rotate between 3 cartridges on a regular basis)  If you do want to do that a different tonearm may be indicated (one with a removable head shell).

I currently use a rega turntable which is very easy to set up and installed a grace tonearm on it from the 70's.

VPI is good but a bit fussy to set up.

If your Ortofon is not that great it's worn out (go to Soundsmith for repair) or is not set up correctly.   I have a Windfield on my VPI arm and it sounds great.  Some complain of VPI's unipivot arm....I attached their optional 2nd pivot.....happy.

What is your price point? Have you looked at Project TT's?

3 to 4 k.  I have looked at projects. They may be in the running.  Aural is selling a used avid in my range that looks killer. I'm like a kid in a candy shop....too many choices.  

Are you sure you want to go whole-hog on a turntable right off the bat? Might it not be better to start with something a bit less expensive (but still fine) to "get your feet wet?"

For instance, a UTurn Audio Theory with an Ortofon 2M Bronze for $1,239? Or a Technics SL-1500c for $1,299? There are many others in that price range.

Just a thought. You'll get at least 90% of the performance for 40% of the cost of a mid-line VPI or similar.

I've thought about that believe me. Thought process is to get good enough gear that with the swapping of tubes or carts it will satisfy my itch for years to come. The other rout as you suggested, I've went down with my digital end and within a year I had completely revamped my system. So in the long run I would have been money ahead with better gear to start with.  Problem was I didn't have the knowledge or know what I was missing. Hence the rabbit hole of pursuing better sound.  I know what pretty damn good sounds like now. So I just assume to start my analog journey at about the same level as my digital set up and do it in such a way that allows growth and not get discouraged because the sound is inferior to what I have already.  I hope that makes sense.  Not saying it's the correct way of thinking of things it's just how I'm looking at it.  

My Marantz TT-15S1 is a nice TT (made by Clearaudio), but if you prefer a different TT, I would recommend that you consider the Hana ML moving coil cartridge and the Sutherland TZ Vibe phono stage.  The Sutherland is lesser known, but there are a lot of really good reviews of the Hana ML cartridge. That pairing brought my vinyl playback to the point that it gives my digital setup a run for it's money. 

I have had Two VPI Primes, and would discourage the unit and brand for workmanship issues. It will require the addition of dual pivot, the tone arm lowering devise was replaced twice still doesn’t lower slightly or straight. In addition I had the send back the Speed Controller, hum and indicator light. I’m so frustrated with VPI. And everytime returns had to go thru dealer rather than direct waisting more time.  Rethink VPI

+1 @noromance technics is very solid and extremely easy to work with.. 

Thanks. I think I'm over the vpi thing now.  The unipivot kinda scared me off. The isolated drive also is a bit impractical for my real world scenario. So that's another mark against vpi and kinda rules out the Michell Technodec.  I'm now on to Rega or EAT or a used Avid Volvere if the price is right.  My default is think will still be MoFi.....maybe.  this kinda sucks but fun at the same time. I'm driving the wife nuts.  Thanks for everyone's input. I

I’ve had several VPI TTs and would recommend them.

I’ve got a Prime 21 with a gimbal arm but wouldn’t be scared of the Unipivot.

I run a Soundsmith Zephyr MI cart but the Otello would be a good cart to go with.

Go with a VPI…

NewerVPI tonearms are not unipivot.

The Scout is. Unless their site hasn't been updated

Scout is a turntable. There is no reason you could not mount a non-original (that is, a tonearm that is not unipivot) on a Scout TT. Dozens of tonearms qualify.

If you have the money to build a wall mounted shelf, do it. De-coupling from the floor works.

Very true Lewn.  Unfortunately that would probably put the scout above my budget. Maybe I'll email vpi to see what options they for that table that wouldn't blow my budget. I know the arms they list on there site are all over 1k

The Link will show asking prices for VPI across a few years with the most recent to compare. It should help identify where noticeable depreciation can occur with certain models.

Knowing depreciation can help be the deal maker/breaker on certain purchases.

My TT Purchases over many years have always appreciated, this is the better place to be, if one is totally satisfied with their TT’s capabilities.

https://www.hifishark.com/search?q=VPI

If you're buying a used Scout that comes with one of their unipivot tonearms included in the purchase price, and if you don't want a unipivot, I do in that case understand your conundrum.  The solution might be any one of the following: (1) Ask the seller to keep the tonearm and reduce the price accordingly, or (2) buy and install the stabilizer that I think VPI sells for their unipivots. Although unipivots are not held in high regard on this forum, they are not so terrible as all that, especially when stabilized, and your system is not going to suffer.  Or (3) find another deal for a VPI without tonearm. Then buy separately the tonearm you desire, whatever that is. You are by no means restricted to VPI in your choice of tonearm.

I bought the VPI HW 19 Mk II with a Sumiko MMT arm and a Koetsu Black in 1985 from Sound By Singer.

I was going to upgrade to a VPI Classic around 2010, but Harry (Weisfeld: the "HW") told me that for $800 to $1,000, I can save myself $4,000 by simply upgrading the HW 19 to a Mk IV and I will have a table that is as good or better (the design philosophy change was forced on them by the EPA: no more lead rings in the platter). So I did.

I am taking it in to VPI to mount a new Jelco 750 arm and to give the table a lookover and tune up later this month.

In other words, I have a table that I have been using for 39 years. I expect to use it for another 25 years or until I die, whenever is later. Can’t beat that for value. BTW someone there told me that 82% of all their tables are still in use.

VPI has great products, and they "take care of their family" of customers after they close the deal.

As for arms, both have detachable shells. That’s allegedly not the best thing, but I need the convenience of switching cartridges. I am still getting terrific sound, so I stay with the convenience.

My old VPI 19-4 has rubber/spring sprung suspension and works well as is in preventing vibration problems.  My VPI TNT6 has a terrible Delrin footer suspension and is used on top of a Townshend Seismic Sink (fantastic combo).  So, when purchasing a VPI table, analyze the suspension because it could be excellent to terrible requiring a platform (such as the newer Townshend spring suspension footers or platform.  Only changed belts (many times) in 42 years for 19-4 and TNT6.

As a complete curve ball proposal, the following will fit the proposal quite fittingly.

There will not be too many who disagree with the Purchase Values of the Items in the Links.

There will also not be too many who disagree with the use of such Items as a TT > TA > Cartridge > Plinth. In my view at such asking prices, it is a great starting place, which if all goes well as a used item sale, will be one that is most likely to appreciate in value.

There is always a risk to buying Vintage and Imported, but many many have done this and there are those that remain doing it as well. I myself have numerous purchases made from the site in the Links with only a couple not working out exactly as planned.  

Add $300ish as the additional costs for a combined shipping and Import Tax.

The First Link gets a TT > TA > Cartridge > Plinth with the TT's Electronics having been refurbished and the claim made the function is proven. 

The TT as a lone item has the evidence shown it is working at both 33 and 45 rpm.

The Tonearm as a lone item has a massive following for its qualities.

The Plinth as a Lone Item is a Mass Design, it will be one that can be contentious as there is the endless debate about a Material and Structure used for a Plinth, especially Mass vs Light Weight. On the same sales site, there are Wood Structure Plinths as well, these could be veneered to create a aesthetic that has extra appeal and fits in better with a rooms decor.    

https://www.fromjapan.co.jp/japan/en/auction/yahoo/input/p1073298992/

https://www.fromjapan.co.jp/japan/en/auction/yahoo/input/l1155224548/

https://www.fromjapan.co.jp/japan/en/auction/yahoo/input/1156118058/

https://www.fromjapan.co.jp/japan/en/auction/yahoo/input/h1156210363/

The following is not my recommendation as a Cart', it is a pointer to what can be achieved as a Purchase. Of this actual Cart' is supplied and capable of 400 hours of good replays? This outcome would be close to $00.50c a replay, which is a Bargain. If the Cart' proves to be very attractive in use, it is one that can be retipped to offer another 1000ish Hours at approx' $00.50c per replay, the attraction is being maintained and the Bargain of usage cost is extended for the longer term.   

https://www.fromjapan.co.jp/japan/en/auction/yahoo/input/w1156131679/

As in all Used Item Sale Purchases CAVEAT EMPTOR is ones best friend.

VPI makes a fine TT & I have used mine for decades. I have implemented multiple tweeks with the assistance of George Merrill.  Link : https://www.hifigem.com/polytable/

His Super Polytable would be on my short list if I were just starting out with vinyl or wishing to upgrade. Check out the link and all of his offerings.  Most highly recommended. 

It's all about the sound!

Wasn't quite finished..I have 2 tonearms and the super polytable would be terrific.  

Best of luck

You care too much about how it looks. Why are you getting into vinyl if you don't have a large record collection (this coming from a 90% vinyl guy)? If you are putting the TT into a spot where it is subject to excessive vibration, plan for spending $$$ to address that, unless you don't intend to listen to it (which it sounds like is the case).

It's in a living room and needs to be wife approved. So yes. Looks matter. Looks matter in all of this hobby. Don't kid yourself.  Someone else had the same ridiculous notion of why one would buy a record player without records. That's ridiculous and dumb as hell.  Why would one have records without a player???   BTW genius, I do have an extensive classical LP collection that was my dad's.  Vibration isn't an issue.  It's been checked. 

Thanks

I've owned a Mofi Ultradeck for almost two years. In that time, it's been a pretty a solid turntable, requiring little to no intervention. I think it sounds a little more tone rich the the Technics I also tried at the time. However, one thing I wish I would have known before I purchased it, is that is has a very heavy 24g tonearm. That heavy of a tonearm can be a bit limiting in cartridge choices. Though all the MoFi (rebadged AT) cartridges would be compliant.

Music Direct says they have installed many out of compliance cartridges on them, and other people have posted on various forums about using out of compliance cartridges, but I'm not so sure I want to spend $1k plus on a cartridge to find out.

I probably would have gone in a different direction had I have know. Either with a Sota Escape with an Origin Live Silver tonearm or a VPI.

In relation to Looks Matter - In relation to ones 'better half' showing a tolerance for a item to be used for the occasional replay of recorded music using a a Archaic Medium to produce the facsimile of the recorded data when the Stylus is reading the Modulations.

The device required to enable this type of replay to occur soon becomes a Dust Collecting Carbuncle in the Space they are trying to have a feel good factor about.

The Archaic Medium on show will be as welcome as a Naked Picture of ones Mothering Law above the Marital Bed Head Board.

Man Caves are Marriage Savers for good reasons.

Every Man with a Partner Sharing their Living Space needs a Man Cave or alternatively, a Friend who is salvaging their own relationship through having a with  Man Cave, hopefully their is a Friend who has shared interests. 

I would recommend revisiting the ClearAudio option.  I have owned VPI, Techniques, Origin Live, among others and had a ClearAudio Concept Air on extended loan recently.  It performed at a level well above my expectations and had very non intrusive aesthetics.