Turntable Isolation Journey
Nearing the end of my journey to solve footfall & feedback issues in my small-room "home office" system with very bouncy floor and flexible walls. Turntable is the only source here -- and it’s a Clearaudio Innovation Compact with no suspension or special isolation feet. This system always sounded good, but was rendered nearly unusable at higher volumes due to turntable isolation that was inadequate relative to this room’s challenges. The worst artifact was when structure-borne feedback from the speakers would cause amp clipping on bass-heavy tracks. This clipping would manifest as an extremely loud singular POP sound, especially hitting the tweeters. It only occurred during the loudest parts of track with bass-heavy elements, and was so loud it was still significantly above the level of the music -- much louder than a POP you would hear from vinyl surface defects. The POP sound was startling, and clearly very bad for tweeters (fortunately my Tannoys seem to have survived several of these incidents). For a time I thought these POPs were from static electricity discharge, but they were NOT. In my quest I tried many solutions and tweaks over a few months, and I’d like to share a rundown of what worked versus what didn’t.
What Helped (MVP products & tweaks):
What Underperformed:
What Was Worthless (Don’t waste your money like I did):
I’m not going to bother expanding upon these; suffice to say they had no discernible positive effect.
Yes, let’s keep it veered towards friendly and non-political -- or at least less political since it's hard to avoid these days. Sure we’re mostly Americans and Canadians here; we generally like each other but also love to rip on each other :) @whart my gosh, that is a beautiful setup and isolation solution you’ve built! Clearly a labor of love. |
@has2be ....*S* Just a friendly reminder...;) Too many times I/we've seen threads unravel into rancour...and we're all tired and dismayed over weaponry 'issues' of late... As for sandboxes, Yes, better used to damp that unwanted 'vibe(s) in ones' environment...'low tech' and a good ROI. *G* As for heads in sand, not a good idea ever....gets' in eyes/nose/ears/mouth and hard to breathe in....
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well aware of the history but I think it was taxation with little representation future Americans rightly ran from. Your constitution was the right to bear arms to prevent any future governments from screwing with we the people....not to kill one another because of who you vote for or your skin color or because someone hurt your feelings... alas...if I lived there with crime as it is in the major cities...Id be packing ....its bad up here too with sensless shootings too...were a tenth of your population with well over 10 % of the crime....its not a good look for either side of our borders...music more than ever is a small but great escape from a large amount of crazy.... |
@has2be I agree no such thing as fighting dirty. Yet, we have guns because it’s our right we fought for when we declared independence from England :) |
Duck, if the image is already on the web (in my case the above from a web site I control), you simply capture the image address and use the tool that looks like a panorama, open and paste in the image address. I don’t know if A-gon supports images directly. If it doesn’t you can use a free photo library-- I use Flicker-- upload the image there, then you need to paste the BB code or whatever it is called from the image hosting service into your post. I’m sure there is a "help" function here somewhere, but that’s pretty much how I do it. A lot of sites don’t want to support the bandwidth required for direct posting of photos, thus the indirect methods mentioned above. This seems to be consistent with the approach I take: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/how-to-upload-photos-in-a-post#:~:text=Select%20any%20picture%2C%20right%20click,Easy%20Peasy.
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It’s so amazing to read about hockey pucks. I thought I was the only one to use these. Back decades before anyone in Houston knew what they were I had my sister-in-law in Boston send me some. That’s all I’ve used for spinning LPs for longer than I can remember. Still haven’t found anything I like better. :( |
The Plinth underneath the Racks is something that I have done. The Racks in my set up are mounted on two Steel Sheets 1100mm x 700mm x 12mm. The two steel sheets also have their own support Structure underneath produced from Granite and Hard Foam. It is this foundation that was the game changer for me, the improvement that was noticed has been notable and will be maintained. The fact that Densified Wood has been offering real improvement on the top of the Rack System, leaves the question does the inclusion of Densified Wood at the Base of the System produce a further attraction to how the structure performs. A friend and I are also seriously considering a Rack Produced from Densified Wood, but for me there is a deep ingrained sentiment attached to the Racks I am using. |
I certainly don’t advocate getting all spendy on a Minus K if you can solve a footfall problem less expensively. I couldn’t for a couple reasons- one, the structure of the house- it is an 1880s landmark that was painstakingly rebuilt from the original wood (longleaf pine and shiplap) but the floors are springy and the walls could not support the weight of the table (245 lbs) even with a steel frame installed. I had a structural engineer come in to advise. Note that the room where the hi-fi is located has been modernized- downstairs is all original wainscoting, shutters, transom windows above the interior and exterior doors, elaborate door frames and pocket doors, etc. What I did was install a subfloor beneath the front end area- made of two layers of marine ply with a barn mat on top-- thing is dead level. The MinusK does allow you to adjust for an uneven floor but it adds another variable and to top that off, my linear tracking arm needs to see a slight tip up in the front right corner--it’s a very fine adjustment that is made by playing with the arm and watching its travel-- something a level or other measuring device would not enable me to zero in. The net result is that I can play this table without issue. Here’s what it looks like using the MinusK stand (which is also adjustable). There is an HRS platform between the Minus K and the table.
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Well, I have $20 worth of hockey pucks en route to my house. My back wall is external and load bearing, so I will be trying a variation on the bracing, getting materials as high on the wall as I can. There is a window that will limit it slightly, but I have everything I need so it's just my time! For what it's worth, my rack is from Core Audio designs and is both insanely heavy and well built and each level is treated with dampening materials inserted in the base of each shelf. This means, of course, is that I have to take everything off the rack to get pucks underneath it, unless I can line up two trustworthy power lifters to pick up what is probably 600 pounds of gear and rack! If steps two and three don't do it, I have the option of trying out a vibraplane. I may alsto try the Townsend, but plan to take it step by step. |
Screed Flooring laid in Laboratories has additional measures put in place for certain Companies designs for how a Screed Floor is to be laid onto substrate materials. Certain Pharmaceutical and Research Companies, especially those turning over 40 Billion+ annually are taking vibration being noticeable in the Lab' seriously and are putting quite a lot of engineering research into pre-screed laying measures being in place that are serving to isolate the screed from the energies transferred through a buildings super structure. This is created by using substrate materials that are highly effective at stopping energy transferral to the Screed. I learnt of this as a result of having a good communication/friendship develop with a Quality Manager responsible for producing Laboratory Flooring on a project I have been involved in, when I was informed the Screed Floor was designed to be de-coupled from the structure as a means to minimise energy transferral and reduce vibration within a Lab', as well as Floor Finishing materials also being selected with this same goal in mind as well I was all ears. I have this specialised Substrate Material at home and in use as part of a Structure on my system, it is assembled as a 500mm Deep Lamination. This has a Hard Foam Layer upon it and is topped with a 200Kg Granite Engineers Flat Plate mounted on it. Again not many are experiencing their Audio Equipment on this type of structure, and this has proved to be a killer to build, definitely a young mans sport, but also serves a role as a superb support for my Amplification and with another Tier Structure placed on it, works superb as a mounting location for an Idler Drive TT. I am sure I can go out and spend £1K+ on a version of a Support Structure for my Amp's, but I have no asurity the items utilised are able to come near the method I have evolved to having adopted, that has proved to be substantially less than the commercial route offerings.
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To be clear, the wall in question here is an outside wall. There is indeed a lot of vibration energy going through the walls too, but the Auralex foam tile I’m using to couple the rack to the wall helps reject a lot of this. It’s a give-and-take between how tightly coupled the rack is for support, and how much vibration transfers from the wall. I still use a CMS Black Platinum filter for the top self which is NOT in contact with the bracing material, and I’m certain it’s doing a great job filtering out the additional wall energy. The main net result from wall contact here is it effectively damps and attenuates footfall shockwaves. I’ll say again the Minus-K looks amazing. If I got one, I would still keep this rack bracing arrangement. Any isolation platform, whether passive or active, is going to work better on as a solid support as possible. The solution I have now, culminating in the Townshend platform, finally meets my needs for this system. I’m not advertising this as a one-size-fits all solution or a "reference" system of any kind. It’s simply scaled down version of my main loft rig (with a lot of hand-me-down components), for enjoyment in my girlfriend’s (challenging) suburban home. I could NOT get problem free vinyl sound in this home (even tried different rooms) until I hit on this combination of isolation elements. Previous attempts experienced the whole gamut of ills, from massive acoustic feedback to the usual footfall skips. No warranty, implied or otherwise lol. LOVE the stories on hockey puck benefits :) Keep telling me about your rack bracing solutions too. |
Mijostyn, You wrote, " The MinusK is so good at it because it is tuned in both the horizontal and vertical directions but put it on an unstable platform and it is a nightmare." Your sentence is easy to understand and makes superficial good sense, but it occurs to me that the Minus K ought to work even on an unstable platform, just thinking in terms of relativity theory. The top shelf on the Minus K doesn't "know" whether the disturbance is coming from above or below, so I wonder whether there would be a problem in actual practice. Have you had the direct experience? Or are you saying there is an imperfection in the Minus K design such that it is set into random motion by frequent disturbances of its equilibrium? I am not saying you are wrong, just thinking out loud. I've observed the Minus K built in to the Helix turntable but never owned one. |
Never Done with the Humble Hockey Puck A glorious use not yet mentioned is under a subwoofer. I use 4 stacks of 2 under the 4 spike discs. This is a very substantial sub and over the years the discs have settled partially into the rubber. The tightening of the bass is a constant joy. Another use is on top of equipment to inhibit vibration. There is no rule here, it either does something or it does not. When it does, it is necessary to experiment with quantity, placement, and stacking. Small devices often benefit with one or two on top. Speaker resonances can be dissipated into heat with a creative arrangement. Watch out for devices that generate heat. You do not want to prevent its escape. Sometimes folded rugs underneath and HP on top do magic for small devices. My favorite implementation was discovered on a slow day when I got curious. My Project RPM 10 table is the original model release, and it was their highest model at the time. They over time redesigned the basic concept in beefing up this and that through several iterations to their current RPM 10 Carbon. Could the humble HP come to the rescue of my wallet and get me close to that latest? I thought so. Three stacks of two under the isolation table! Between the platter and the arm there is just enough room to place HP on both sides of the plinth. I could add them very gently while playing an LP and hear immediately any sonic difference. I started in the front and added 1 and 1/2 HP. Yes, I sawed one in half to squeeze it between the platter and arm rest. The benefits were obvious. Then in the rear I added a stack of two, and WOW, I am on to something! Is this as good as it gets? While continuing to play the LP I gently dropped a third onto the rear and noise continued to vanish. When I dropped a fourth onto stack I got DEAD SILENCE. I knew I had achieved nirvana with this table. Now I don’t have to spend $6000 chasing the latest design, just the cost of 12 HP. It sounds Devine!!! And it is not visually intrusive in any way, blending into the dark-grey carbon-fiber modernist design. I always keep a bag on hand because I might need to supplement the 80 that currently reside in my system! |
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@thr1961 Why not add a new support for the turntable only on your (unused?) fireplace? |
@thr1961 You stated "but hoping not to spend the extra dollars right now after the Safir..." My comments and suggestions offered were to encourage the investigation and experiences that be learned from, as a result carrying out trials that have proved quite valuable in my listening environment. Nothing ventured, Nothing Gained, is the usual outcome of not being inquisitive and creating experiences. There is a suggestion you bypass the ideas referred to, that are made by most of the contributors to the thread, negate all forum members reported on experiences and go straight for a $5K ancillary. This is a typical Gon response from a select very small selection of members using the Analog Section. These few are always speedy at bringing to the forefront, that it is a multi $$$$$$'s fix. Very Very few are taking these individuals advice as far as I can work out.
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It’s always a good idea to locate your floor-located turntable stand as close to an outside wall as possible. Or right above a support beam for the suspended floor. That’s where the floor is most stable, least bouncy. Some new houses are built with the sheetrock walls mounted onto not wood 2 x 6's, but thin aluminum structures. Not suitable for a wall-mounted turntable shelf. |
@mijostyn frames the challenge correctly. As for footfalls and other structural borne vibrations, there are only two solutions—siting your table on the basement level directly on the concrete foundation (or forming a concrete tower that rises to the main level—yes, some folks have done this!) OR going with a wall mount shelf, which MUST be fastened to a load bearing (usually exterior) wall. IME these are the only ways to address structural issues like bouncy floors and washing machines. The other suggestions offered here are not going to get you there—period. Once properly anchored and isolated, you can go after the airborne vibrations generated by playing music. Some of the solutions offered here make sense. After years of experimentation, I’ve got my Target PS-1 oversized shelf screwed directly into the studs on an exterior wall. I applied some foam weatherstripping to the mounting surface as an interface between the back of the shelf and the drywall and used the largest wood screws possible along with the largest washers possible to ensure that the shelf is securely fixed to the wall—I can hang on the end of the shelf and it doesn’t budge. Then I replaced the upward facing spikes with Herbies Giant Gliders and the MDF shelf with a 19”x21” Symposium Svelt Shelf (a drop in swap). My table sits directly on the Svelt Shelf and has its own integrated aircraft aluminum base with Isoacoustics footers (comes standard with the PF Harmony). While my rack and table are too close to my speakers—no better option in our current home—I can crank it up to unlimited volume and all I get is clean, clean music. FWIW my speakers are spiked to the suspended floor with Track Audio footers—highly recommended. You can see pics on my systems page. |
@thr1961 No rack should be rickety but bracing yours will probably not help. I suggest you do not waste money and go right to a low profile MinusK platform. You have a fine turntable and it deserves more than 1/2 baked solutions. The MinusK will stop the foot fall problems and give you a black background like you have never heard before. You will wind up there eventually, there is nothing better. |
@thr1961 There is a decent sum of money parted with to get to the TT>Tonearm>Cart' now in use. To produce a support structure that can be very satisfying does not take large amounts of monies to begin with. Have a look at Barry Diament Audio (some claim he gave Townsend Products their earliest ideas to go to market with), some of the methods seen on Diament Audio are now evolved, where it can be seen others are utilising his suggestions/variants of the suggestions on other forums, it will be speedy to see ideas can be put in place for small monies. Hockey Pucks and other simplistic footer methods can be compared. I have revisited my evolvement through materials and it was a material referred to as Sorbofoam that superseded my use of Squash Balls. Sorbofoam is available in different thicknesses and densities. I chose a Hard Foam as I had at the time devices that has substantial weight. Sorbofoam was later shown to have a worthy alternative, which is a Pipe Lagging Material from the Company Armaflex. I have both of these foam materials in my possession today and still utilise them during trials and keep them in use if they are the preferred material. To experience any of the above is not going to impact on the finances, the real requirement is making time to change materials and evaluate how they are offering a change for the better/worse, or just a tweak to the sonic seasoning. Any change of material will create a change to the sonic to manifest, the better trained the ear, the quicker the sonic change will be detected. The assessment is for the best, when it is being identified that a new manifestation n has developed. Quite simply, a certain area of the frequency range becomes improved and as a result details from within this frequency range become more evident. Once there is feel for it, there becomes the intent, to produce a presentation from the frequencies that are the preferred choices for the end user. As stated, I like Transparent/Lean, which to me is a Tight, Clean Rolled Off Bass Note (No perception of Overhang). This base condition, enables a well Project Upper Mid' and High Frequency. Then there is the quirk, I don't want this for all Genre listened to, like the perception a Rich Tone is present, I can achieve this instantly with a couple of minor changes. I have had an experience as a result of working with structures and Platter Mats, where a Backing Vocalist on a Track was quite subdued and fixed in the Background. Following toying with Structure and Platter Mats, this Vocal changed to the point the Backing Vocal was prominent and almost on parity with the lead vocal. I have no doubt in my mind for that the Vocal during this part of the recording, was what the engineer was wanting, the vocal was intended to become that prominent. Small Monies and a fair allocation of time enabled that experience to manifest. |
Bracing a rack against a wall could certainly be a good idea, IF the wall itself is not prone to pick up airborne energy from the speakers or vibrate in tune to some local appliance, like maybe a refrigerator if kitchen is next door. In cases such as those, you are deliberately coupling to another source of spurious energy and then hoping the Auralex (sp?) is protecting you from the deleterious effects. Best not to use such a wall as a brace in the first place. My equipment rack backs up to a wall that supports the stairs leading to the second floor of my house; I am quite sure it reacts to footsteps on the stairs, and I would not use that wall as a brace. |
@mulveling -- this thread and your excellent research could not be more timely! I recently changed turntables and arms, moving to a Kuzma Stabi R and the new Safir 9 tonearm. The change is significant, however I immediately began suffering from footfall inducted skips. I never had this with my Palmer, but they are entirely different systems, so I am on my own journey. I added the Kuzma isolation feet and that has helped, but not completely. My next step is to try the bracing you describe, although I can't get my rack as close to the wall as yours. My dealer suggested this bracing and so we will see. I am now going to order some hockey pucks for my rack and will see how that goes. From there, I had looked at the isolation platform you suggested, so that could be next. I am also thinking of a Vibraplane, but hoping not to spend the extra dollars right now after the Safir... Thank you for the research and for sharing your experiences. I will post back how it goes for me. |
OP,
Absolutely. SRA is for micro vibrations, not foot falls. It is for top notch turntables, not to make up for bad environments or substandard tables. This string is too long to re-read every time I run into it again. For excellent tables that already have good isolation SRA will raise performance another level. |
@pindac Yup, that is why none of us Americans have any teeth. Canadians fight dirty. |
In the US there is the added advantage that Ice Hockey is a popular sport. Asking for spent pucks to be put to one side to be picked up when a batch are available, will offer an experience with a valued footer that has a difference to its elasticity through the usage it has incurred. As stated previously, I used Squash Balls in a Spent condition to experience their influence with a noticeable change to the elasticity. |
@jollytinker Yep -- I hopped on amazon this week, and now I’ve got pucks under the tube amps and speakers (spiked) too. Sounds GREAT! Agreed, it’s funny how much of the recent audiophile vibration philosophy abhors the idea of rubber because it will supposedly "store energy and release it later, blurring the music". We’re told it’s better to dispose of the energy by heat conversion. Well, sure! But what % of the energy can really be converted in this way? Especially without a LOT of lossy material acting over a very large area - certainly much more than the amount of "magic" material in these audiophile feet. Some of these companies will patent their own blend of polymer (which must be very easy to spec & outsource now) and sandwich layers. Is this really better than a fat rubber puck constrained between hard surfaces (e.g. spikes and floor)? And how stable are these polymers going to be over time? The pucks last forever and can be replaced at a buck and change per pop. Maybe the pucks work so well in some scenarios (like ours) because they’re more effective at managing the energy -- including reflecting it back away from the component -- even if they don’t convert as much of it to heat. Or maybe they just work better because there’s more mass of stuff there than in the stingy audiophile feet (at 10x - 50x the cost or more). There’s much more of the "active" material in a puck than in a Herbie’s glider, or a Gaia III, or Orea (a lot of which appears to just be an impressive looking metal shell). |
Well thanks for the tip about spikes into hockey pucks for speaker footers! I’m amazed at what it did for a pair of Pure Audio Project speakers on a sprung floor. Just snapped everything into focus and took the goo out of the midrange. Much better than the stock feet. I am very surprised by this as I had long ago decided that rubber was a bad material in audio systems. I guess mental rigidity is bad too.
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@mulveling I can't recollect when I first started to consider room treatments as a subject to be better understood. I have been to numerous Trade Events and have seen plenty of Commercial Products and Room Treatments utilised in Demo' Rooms. In the early days visits to Commercial Events were more about learning how the Audio Devices were creating a signal and how the Speaker was able to produce a sound. It was these experiences that steered me to become a advocate of and remain loyal to the Vinyl Source as a sole source for more than 25 years. A digital Source is quite a new addition in my system. As I learnt about Vinyl, the interest in the Mechanics of the devices used become quite developed and I met with many to learn how they were addressing the need to be creating interfaces that are crucial to attempt for an unadulterated sound being produced. This is a interest that is still strong today, there are plateaus that are camped on, but the getting to the Summit is still the climb to be undertaken. Room Treatments have come into the equation when I was quite interested and practicing methods to improve mechanical interfaces. The curiosity was is the works undertaken due to the listening environment, hence, supporting structures and room treatments evolved as an interest and educational experience. I highly recommend room treatments, there is extensive information on how to do DIY Absorption Panels and Diffusers. If this does not suit, there are also off the Shelf Absorption / Diffusers that will be quite suitable and not necessarily expensive. There is the trade off if a room is to be a main living area, as the method to conceal the treatments and blend them in as decor' might mean a little extra thought is needed for the aesthetics and if buying off the shelf this can be with increased costs. As stated before, if these subjects are addressed, support structure, and room acoustics, revisiting simple to exchange interfaces on the Signal Path, i.e, Cables, Valves, SUT, will shine a new light on some of the earlier choices made. The Link is not a recommended site to purchase from, but it will give a consolidated overview of how aesthetics can be considered.
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Since the structure-borne energy has been addressed, airborne energy doesn't seem have been be a big problem. The rack with turntable is located several feet down the left side wall. And I don't want a digital source lol. |
@sokogear Yep, a suspension alone (whether SOTA, Townshend or other) is not enough to guarantee immunity to footfalls. A large enough displacement will still excite the suspension, which in turn can excite the arm + cartridge resonance, which will certainly flap the woofers and other nasty stuff. My room here is also a suspended wood floor over a crawl space. We appear to have very similar use cases :) It was a combination of rack bracing, hockey puck feet, and Townshend platform that got my setup "effectively" impervious to footfalls. The newly braced rack reduces maximum displacement enough that the Townshend successfully mops up the remainder. They really have to work in tandem (a wall shelf would be very similar in function to my rack bracing). And the acoustic feedback is also now also solved well enough -- yep they’re inter-related to some degree.
@mijostyn This is the older series Nova V (originally a Star III), not VI. No eclipse, no magnetic thrust. I was pretty bummed because VI was announced not long after I got the V rebuild done. And the VI upgrades indeed appear to be quite substantial. So now I have this V that’s still really nice but kind of a bummer when I think about it. Sure, I didn’t give the Nova V a fair shake in this room, and I’m starting to suspect its suspension needs adjustment. If the tension & leveling on the 4 springs isn’t EXACTLY right you get all this jumpy side-to-side movement on excitation, which is really bad. Though I’m sure it would work well enough now with the braced rack. However I’ve already gone through a number of cartridges / arms / phono stages in this room and feel I’ve got a good handle on what each part contributes sonically -- previously went through the motions with these same parts in the main loft rig, too. The SOTA sounds really good but I’m simply preferring the Innovation Compact these days.
@ghdprentice My friend has his HR-X on an SRA and it worked wonders for him. But he’s got an extremely rigid massive rack on concrete slab. Totally different use case to this room. I can pretty much guarantee any HRS / SRA / CMS platforms will not "move the ball forward" for the significant issues posed in this room. They have to help absorb a relatively large displacement. And that requires movement (a suspension). Unfortunately I don’t see those 3-layer vibrasystems rubber feet doing the trick here, either. |
+1 Townshend seismic platform. Improved the sound of my Rega P8 as their sales guy said, startlingly. I have a suspended hard wood floor over a crawl space. Interestingly though, the platform actually created footfall problems that previously did not exist. When I spoke to Max Townshend about this (RIP) he was not surprised because of the frequency of his pods and footsteps interacting. He said the solution was to either live with inferior sound without his platform, or put the platform and table on a wall mounted shelf, which thankfully fit nicely and got the approval from the boss for it since it looks like it is almost sitting on top of the credenza where my other equipment sits (on top of Sympoium roller blocks). I guess I was solving multiple problems like @mijostyn was talking about. I am sure the combo of the Townshend and the wall shelf make my TT sound like a far more expensive one and the vibration detectable versus the amp on the credenza was reduced like 99.9%. |
It all counts, everything. Isolating turntables from the environment is very difficult. You are trying to keep it from doing what it was designed to do and that is measure vibration. Concrete slabs are a great help with stability. Stability and isolation are two different issues. Foot fall problems are a stability issue. Feedback problems are an isolation issue. Some solutions affect both issues but are very interdependent. Concrete slabs are worthless if you have a wobbly rack. Your 10 year old should be able to run into the whatever the turntable is sitting on without making the turntable skip. That is the ultimate stability. This in no way guarantees good isolation. Concrete slabs do not isolate you from environmental rumble. Those of you with concrete slabs and subwoofers, put your stylus down on a stationary record and turn the volume all the way up. If you have a high pass filter turn it off. Look at your subwoofer bounce. Ideally they should not move at all. Turn on the AC and watch what happens. Check out the washing machine and the dishwasher. Only isolation platforms on ultimately stable platforms, tuned to a very low frequency will extinguish this. 1 to 3 Hz is the range most quote. The MinusK is so good at it because it is tuned in both the horizontal and vertical directions but put it on an unstable platform and it is a nightmare. Same goes for any suspension turntable although some are better at handling unstable platforms than others. @mulveling, I am not sure why you had so much trouble with the Sota. Did yours have the magnetic thrust bearing? Eclipse drive? I did have an issue with feedback at a very low frequency with the Cosmos. It turned out to be the three chambers acting like a Helmholtz resonator. Putting a skirt around the plinth closing off the cavity below the turntable fixed that problem. Otherwise, I have been totally pleased with the table. I also have an ultimately stable cabinet on a concrete slab. The subwoofers remain fixed with the above test regardless of anything else going on including the 10 year old. As for sound quality, it has none. Turntables are not supposed to sound. Any differences are usually easily proven to be from tonearms, cartridges and adjustment. |
Yes, I placed the pads under the feet of the turntable, and noticed a significant audible change, but this is largely because I had a Rega P8, which is very sensitive to the surface that it’s sitting on. Try both, and see what you notice. It’s quite fun to experiment with little, inexpensive adjustments to the audio system! I only tried the rubber ones mainly because they were suitable for the lowest load psi, and designed for small vibrations and designed for acoustic applications. The steel ones have a minimum load of something like 200 psi, as opposed to 2 psi for the rubber ones, and also there isn’t any mention anything about acoustic application or vibrations for the steel ones. |
Thank you so much for sharing the link! I’ll give them a try and report back 👍 I’m curious… 1. Did you place them directly under the turntable’s feet or just under the plinth? 2. I see this company has rubber/steel/rubber pads as well. Did you happen to give those a try? Thanks much and best wishes to all! Don |
Hello again Mulveling, Last night was a different sort of night. Although it didn't involve vinyl, it did involve one of my favorite forms of music, blues, and one of my favorite players of it, SRV. Since my 3C24 tube amp was recently altered by its designer/builder, Paul Birkeland of Bottlehead, I am now sensing an emotional sensation I've never quite had before with SRV, or with my system. For me, that kind of sensation (to that extent) has rarely been noticible as it was last night. What Paul did was change my 3C24 amp to run 812 output tubes. It's changed this amp in a phenominal way to something that invites that kind of connection. That's what it's all about, is it not? Keep that enjoyment going, regards, Dan |
@mulveling Thanks for the pictures and clarification. H
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@pindac right on! :) |
I am very familiar with the Vibrasystems Sandwiched Blue Foam Pads, I was able to acquire these as a 300mm square that was a surplus material. I was also able to pass on as gifts these same pads to the local HiFi Group. The Local Hifi Group are Gaia III users after my introducing them to the AT 616. I also have used the same construction as the Vibrasystems Pad which is using a Sandwiched Cork. Each Types have been tried under as footers in direct contact with Sources, Amp's and Speakers and also as a Separator of Tiers in a Sub Plinth assembly. My experience with these pads used as above is that as a alternate material in a structure they will change the sonic at the time of their addition, but are not able to offer a attraction that has been discovered from other designs for Footers that have been adopted. My experiences of working with structures as interfaces for equipment and the loaning of materials and devices used for these purposes, has yielded very similar results to what has been realised when doing similar with a TT Platter Mat. There is in my view no ubiquitous solution for a produced structure or use of a Platter Mat. When creating the experience, there are two factors to be considered. One being the capability of the device/materials in use to perform a particular function and then there is the unique preference for a sonic that is perceived as the most attractive to the end user. The desirable sonic/presentation across a range of experienced users of audio equipment can be to the polar extremes. One seasoned user can prefer a lean transparent presentation, like myself, but where I stray is that I will welcome a little richness offered up for a certain genre of music, this makes my own preferences unique and I have worked to learn how to satisfy this within the used system. A SUT swap out, Platter Mat exchanges or a Cable or Valve exchange are easily carried out and more than enough to change the perception that a Lean or Rich sonic is presented. Another seasoned user can pursue a Rich Warm Tone or even a Lush Overbearing Coloured Tone. There is certainly no correct or incorrect in my books, just end users who are happy with their creations. As the OP's Thread Title suggests, A Journey has been undertaken to find a place where they are satisfied with what is used as a structure to get the best from their listening environment and to suit their preferences for how they perceive a sonic and presentation. More importantly, as attractive as an Off the Shelve solution is, especially one that comes with a substantial purchase price, there is not any asurity, the sonic produced and the presentation is going to be satisfying to all who experience the device in use. For a selection of individuals it may be the very best experience to date, for a different selection of individuals the impression made may be quite different. |
Yes, the Vibrasystems EVA-BFR was very effective in isolating and grounding my last turntable. They are specifically designed to reduce minor vibrations. I also tried springs, but I found that they induced a some what “tinny” quality to the sound. Hockey pucks did seem to ground the turntable, but vibrations seemed to be rather easily transmitted through even two stacked pucks. The EVA-BFR allowed the turntable to sound very grounded, much more detailed, and very neutral. Here is the link to the items, where you can buy various sizes: (let us know what your experience is with them) https://vibrasystems.com/foam-rubber-pad.html
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