Tube Preamp for Pass XA25 under $3,000

Aric Audio or Supratek with output gain control would very nice I guess.

Good luck with your search.

Somebody has tryed audio gd HE-1??

i might have just what you want,  call me  770 426 7275.

Voltage for Matrix Audio X Sabre Pro is 4.5 Vrms for XLR and 2.25 for RCA input. 

Suffice it to say, I second @mesch and his suggestion on reaching out to Aric.

Happy New Year!

Well I am glad to hear that the Backert is providing what you wished for. I am curious as to what voltage is provided by your DAC.

Regarding the Aric Special I own one of Aric's early versions.. It was replaced by Aric with the Super. One main difference between the two is that the Special has a variable resistor for the gain and the Super has fixed resistors with four gain levels. Also the Super has superior parts inside.  I would call Aric to discuss the differences and what he can do regarding the HT bypass. Whatever you decide you will gain from the conversation. Aric is great to deal with.

I have been really busy with family and work.  I will say that the Backert has improved clarity and soundstage from top to bottom, and I am very pleased.  I guess predictably the high and midrange of my usual acoustic/vocal music has really benefitted.  However, the lower ranges are also definitely shaking out more clearly, including for more "complex" music like full on rock and funk.  (Sorry I am not really all that great at describing this stuff)  There is just more separation and clarity between the instruments even in the lower mid-range than the Freya plus. 

I realize it may not mean much, but the volume on the Backert stays between 8 and noon.  As mentioned, I am listening in nearfield, and my office is around 12x12, but it is completely open on one side (behind the speakers).  So the nearfield and size of the room may be helping with the lower gain.  It is really quite loud and fills my office at noon.

I will add that I do have a pair of REL T-Zeros that help the very lower end, but again, I have to really get the sound up before I feel they are pressurizing the room.  The Harbeth's are definitely putting out better low end on their own than before with the Freya.  

It is hard to tell if the sound is "thin" or "anemic" without comparing to another preamp.  If anything is hinting at a thinness, it is the high end, but it really might just be that the clarity has thinned out the treble more than I am use to.  It may be a matter of it being less forgiving of poorer recordings.  Certainly, the comments make me want to compare it to a higher gain preamp, and there is an Aric Special for sale.  Frankly, I do need a second preamp for my living room/HT, and would happily move the Backert there if it did not perform as well as another amp.  On the other hand, I don't need another preamp without HT bypass, and I don't see that the Aric's generally have that (perhaps saw reference to a bypass mod, but I could have imagined that).  I am going to think about this some more.  I really was planning on getting serious about a streamer, but may have to divert the funds to a another preamp.

Finally, with regards to the Cary, I would point out that I have a Matrix Audio DAC, with higher voltage, and the thread recently discussing this issue involved a Matrix DAC.  So that was concerning for me going that direction.  It might not have been an issue using unbalanced inputs from the DAC, but it was a concern for me.

Thanks for the input. 

I agree with mlsstl. While the Harbeth P3esr is a wonderful speaker for much of the music you listen to, not so much for bass heavy funk and rock. 

Also, as an owner of the XA25, I believe a  preamp that provides 12dB gain or somewhat more is a good fit.   I own an Aric Audio preamp that provides a variable 0-20dB of gain. The gain is usually set in the upper middle of this range for the XA25.

Something not mentioned yet in the responses -- you said "the more challenging funk and rock can get a bit muddled in the lower range."

You are using Harbeth P3esr speakers -- the smallest bookshelves they make. The laws of physics place some limits on just how much low frequency material they can handle. If it is there on the recording, your amp is going to try to send it to the speakers, and your woofer is going to try to play it. To use your word, that can really muddle the entire sound picture, with the system exerting a lot of energy trying to reproduce sounds they are physically incapable of doing.

I have a set of Spendor 4/5s in my bedroom system. While I absolutely love the way they sound, they have clear bottom-end limits that some material, like funk & rock, can easily exceed.  I suspect that is more your problem than the preamp. Perhaps consider a subwoofer?

the XA30.8 has 26 db gain (quite a bit more than the XA25 20db).

It was too much gain for my cary preamp and I sold the amp.

gain matching is critical.  

I have a Backet/Pass xa30.8 combo and it sounds great!  

Gain  matching is why I had suggested Aric Audio, as he builds adjustable gain control into every preamp/linestage he makes. The Pass amps like far more gain than the Backert can deliver. Therefore, you will never know what the XA is capable of. A little due diligence will save you in the end...

the backert labs preamps have a very good reputation, hopefully the 9db of gain will not cause the xa25 to sound anemic because of its  relatively low 20db gain.

my xa25 needed the 24 db gain my cary slp 05 put out, which is why i suggested the slp98 with 23db.  

hope it works for you.  

Congratulations jcwilson on your purchase looking forward to hearing your impressions

As far as the Dehavilland ultra verve III goes I’ve owned one for several years and it is Superb and one the great values. Big tone in the mid range and dynamic.  Tons of tube rolling Opportunities with the 6sn7.  

Great preamp and I’m sure you’re gonna hear some pretty big improvements across the board.  Now time to work on getting a decent streamer.  Even adding something like an iFi Zen Stream for only $399 will sound dramatically better than a computer.  Look forward to your thoughts on the Rhumba. 

@jcwilson Good choice!  I think that you will be very pleased.  I bought a new Backert Labs Rhumba 1.3 earlier this month and so far am more than impressed.  Was looking for a used one, but they’re few and far between.  Like you, I upgraded from the Freya (OG).  The Freya is a great value, but the Rhumba is in a whole other league (or two)… we’ll worth stretching the budget for.  Look forward to hearing your impressions.

Aric Audio, without hesitation! I had both the XA60.8, as well as the XA160.8 paired with the Pass XP20 and the sound was anemic and boring. I then added the Aric Audio Motherlode and those big Pass amps sprung to life. Call him to discuss your needs...his customer service and knowledge pertaining to tube based audio is unmatched.

Rogue RP5 👍

Recently I bought used Dehavilland Ultraveve III preamplifier, and feel it extra well with my power amplifier Audio Research VT100 III. 

The sound from this preamplifier is my taste, some old style,not very hifi.NOT transparent. By the way,I dislike transparent sound,and some one might love it very much. so It is very important to listen it by yourself.

There are a lot details in the sound, different people have a lot difference on their preference.

Ayre sound very transparent sound, and many people love it,that's a example.

Pulled the trigger on Backert Labs Rhumba Extreme 1.2. A bit over my budget, but good deal. I will report. 

Icon audio la4 Mk3 signature, listening to it now with the xa25 and loving it, 

@mulveling Possibly of interest: http://www.dehavillandhifi.com/UltraVerve-Preamplifier.htm

I'm looking for a more specific answer to your question.

Thanks for all the feedback.  Not sure it has made my decision easier, but I will definitely consider Cary (that was on my radar already) and the DeHavilland (love the price), and will probably go back to trying to figure out a streamer.  Thank you again. 

@hilde45

The UltraVerve has a very unusual configuration! I was not familiar with its 6AH4 tubes (use as cathode followers), but apparently each one is a single section of a 6BX7, which I do have experience with - as the OTL follower outputs on a tube headphone amp.

Used to drive headphones, the 6BX7 is a vastly more powerful than (and preferred over) 6SN7. Used in a preamp, its power advantages might be largely mitigated, but I bet it still imparts an incredible slam and weightiness to the sound. Super interesting choice of tubes on this preamp, with a lot of potential. I just wonder why a pair of 6AH4 was chosen over a single 6BX7?

It also features the more traditional 6SN7 for its input / gain slot. And this should afford the sweet tone and airiness of that tube type, along with endless rolling possibilities. Super interesting preamp!

@avanti1960 Its helpful you are attempting to set the record straight on the other SLP-05 complaint (user error) thread. The fix to use a more common spec dac or lower volt connection was apparent - yet not fully acknowledged it seems.

+1 on the SLP-98L recommendation, I sure enjoy mine. Chatted with Nelson once who indicated several of his customers use Cary tube preamps with his SS amps.

You could also consider upgrading your Freya. There are numerous blogs and posts about upgrades. Here’s an example.

Freya mods

The recent Cary thread was about the SLP-05 and fixing the issue centered around too much gain from a high voltage source that had more than twice the voltage that the Cary and many other preamps specify.   The DAC in question had an output of 6 volts, Cary (and Luxman for example) specify a voltage in of 2.5 volts and warn that using higher voltage sources could result in some sound filtering through at zero volume.   Cary would have had to redesign their preamp to block the signal completely as would Luxman and several other preamp makers.

I have had great service from Cary FYI.  Asking them to redesign their unit to accommodate an out of spec source is a tall ask.   

There has been a recent OP discussing Cary providing sub par customer service.  Was it a one off?

The ad for the DeHavilland Ultraverve 3 Preamp above does not mention remote-control capability for the preamp which is a $700 option.

I have a Cary Audio SLP-05 when I had the Pass XA25 and it was a superb match- because the Cary had higher than usual gain (23db). The XA25 has lower than usual gain for a power amp (20 db).

The 05 is over your budget but an SLP-98 is not. You will get a perfect gain match and a refined, sweet sound with incredible dynamics and transparency. Jump on it now before the holiday sale price is over.

EDIT- seriously.  This is a no-brainer at $3K sale price.  

+1 @hilde45,

The deHavilland Ultraverve is excellent.

 Cheers,

Scott

Consider this piece of advice a holiday gift, and if you can buy it in the next few hours, you'll be lucky. After that, it will be gone, no question.

As a previous XA25 owner I can vouch for the LTA gear pairing nicely with the pass amps. I’m sure the Pass Pre’s are great too. However the LTA offer a tinge of the tube “ember” with tons of detail and clarity you get from solid stage preamps. 
 

it certainly bested the Schiit Freya + I had. 

I like my system, but feel the Freya may be the weak link. 

I couldn’t disagree more.  You’ve got a good list of candidates and some good recommendations above, but the Freya is pretty good.  What’s really holding you back is streaming from a computer.  Sorry, but that’s by far your weakest link and, frankly, is an insult to the rest of your equipment.  Get a good streamer first and then worry about a preamp.  That’s absolutely what I’d do.  

OP I’ve heard the Pass x25 and Backert Tube Preamp with Tekton Impact Monitor Speakers, The sound has huge soundstage and 3D So holographic, if I own the x25 I will get Backert.

If you can find a used Rogue Athena, it should be well under $3K and it does NOT get embarrassed next to much more expensive ARC Reference 6 or VAC Renaissance V preamps. Low end is solid clean fast and powerful (a hallmark of 6H30 tubes); it really thrives with rock / pop / metal. Full balanced I/O with SE conversion handled by transformers. I like it much better than their current RP series preamps. I still keep an Athena around for backup here.

I just don't like 6SN7 in preamps, for various reasons (I like them in amps). I don't like 12AU7 at all, in any slot. 12AX7 and 12AT7 have too much gain for that role. 6H30 and 6922 are simply great preamp tubes. 

Pass XP12 for synergy. A no brainer. 

I would suggest an LTA MZ-3 or better still a used Herron VTSP-3A. The Herron will mate well with the Pass and Harbeths providing a light touch of tube magic but very low coloration. You can often find one within your budget. Good luck!