Well, I got my Loki just to see what it would do. Schiit shipped the day I ordered it.
Love it! And, it did not noticeably degrade sound quality as far as I could tell. It can be bypassed with one pushbutton on the Manley remote. With the mid bass and lower treble turned up just a bit, there was more prescence and “air” on most recordings - especially voice. Very subtle though, and I probably couldn’t tell if it was in or out of the circuit without instantaneous a-b switching.
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I have enjoyed playing with the 25hz and 50hz knobs on my C53 in my system. It helped make certain 'woosh' types of bass sound much more impressive.
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These last two posts really speak to another side of audio which I love -- not only *adjusting the sound balance* (as if we were all recording engineers) but also just *play.* I like to play with things. Remembering that helps keep life meaningful to me. |
I have a question. Do the players of music, use tone control?
Can the guy on bass, turn it up? Can the Gal singing lead, give it the
"thumbs up" and the lead vocals volume is increased? 350-3000 hz
I really don’t understand, NO tone control.
I’m not willing to put up with noise when I can live with sound.
Tone control features DO color the sound, or UN color, so to speak.
A turn of a knob, knowing it will fix a problem for your ears in that room for that song.
Are you saying the lead guy on his Les Paul, that swaps to another, Les Paul, to an acoustic Martin, to a ukulele. Didn’t use tone control?
No tone control, really limits what I would be listening to in my sound areas. No tone control in a shop. Really? After work, no noise, ear plugs and muffs are off. You don’t change the tone controls? Hee hee You guys crack me up...
I’m dedicated to the sound at that time. Home, car, shop, work....
In " The Room ", its stays pretty flat across the tone control sections.
20% of my music listening is in the room. What about the rest of listening time?
Don’t listen, not an option.. I’ll use my tone control
Go ahead and tell me how ALL of you don’t use tone control, you all do,
think about it.. Your car, you partners car, no tone control, yes there is, and you use it...
Need to get into treatment, self denial, is running rampant.
LOL. Don’t take offense now...
Regards
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I was wanting a tone control this morning, listening quietly in my basement with everyone else asleep.
I was wanting a tone control yesterday, trying out some Klipsch 600m speakers, to see if the brightness could be tamed.
I was wanting tone control two days ago, to see how much my subwoofer was contributing to the the lower end of my speakers.
I was wanting tone control because an old Joni Mitchell recording had buried her voice in the live mix.
Are there better ways to accomplish these things? Probably.
Would it be ideal if my listening room never needed tone-control adjustment? Sure.
Once my system reaches perfection, will I take my tone control out to the driveway, douse it with lighter fluid, and offer it to the gods as a burnt offering? Of course not. |
You need tone controls as you age and your hearing is no longer as good as when you were 12 years old.
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My next amp won't have volume control, either. If I want the music louder, I'll just move closer.
In all seriousness, my integrated amp has all that old-school stuff. Bass, treble, balance, loudness. Most of the time, it isn't used, and is in fact bypassed completely. But at times, it's useful. Not every piece of music is recorded well.
L.
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"Move closer" -- love it!
"Spatial expander?" Move around.
"Turn it off?" Leave the house.
"Turn it on?" Return to house.
And so on.
Thanks for the chuckle, builder3! |
As so many have mentioned here, the room is to be dealt with first. Unfortunately most audiophiles are lying to themselves about speaker placement and room treatment. Tile floors, glass sliding doors, and speaker pushed into corners tell me that the first attempt wasn't made.
The use of tone controls should com After that. So now as others have also mentioned, tone controls themselves can be a waste of time, at least in you acoustical environment/system. Bass and treble turnover frequencies are not able to be selected like on the old Yamaha gear, for example. In the past, JVC used a set of 5 tone controls. Maybe good. |
a standing debate whether tone controls are worth the (likely) sound degradation
Which is a silly debate when the mixing console your music was made on has tone controls all over the signal chain. If the circuit is designed well, the tone control won’t ruin your sound by running it flat. Also saying you should at no point need tone controls is like saying I will only ride a bike with no brakes and adjustments because I am that much of a purist that even having the option to stop or enhance the experience to my liking as needed ruins my pure experience. Laughable logic.
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microphone selection is the first tone control in the recording chain…….
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All the time since there is no perfect room and therefore, even if you are the best set up guy in the world and have added reasonable acoustic treatments, EQ for minor, final fine tuning is icing on the cake. Every LP and CD you own has been EQed many times before it hits your home; no debate like you find among audiophiles in the recording/mixing/mastering industry.
I'm saving for a Manley Massive Passive (I can also use it in my studio) for analog and I do my final EQ for digital using the EQ and room correction algorithms in my Weiss DAC501.
IMHO, the Schitt EQ products are a gift to all audiophiles. The Lokius with six bands is where I would start. I tell everyone who will listen to pick the one in their price range, play with it for a few weeks and return it if it isn't for you. Nothing to lose and a lot to gain.
This will horrify dealers though. In many cases trying EQ is likely to stop the silliness of trying to EQ your system with cable swaps, component swaps, funny things that go under other funny things and so on.
I'm beginning to think that the elimination of early tone controls (yes, I know, cheap parts, bad circuits but why throw the baby out with the bathwater) was a savvy idea in the early days of high end to keep folks changing gear when all it would take is a few turns of a few knobs.
Anyone that can't/won't optimize speaker and listening position per Jim Smith's Get Better Sound or any other tried and true method must try one of these. I insist. Cult leader Jason Stoddard can thank me later.
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BTW, the tide is turning. I’m seeing more and more very well designed EQ functions in modern line stages. One example would be the Zesto Leto. Included is a six position, remote controlled "Presence" control. No getting around it, some recordings are going to be edgy, aggressive or bright because someone wasn’t doing their job properly during tracking, mixing or mastering. A very nice and useful feature. Interesting to note the designer was a well regarded recording engineer for many years while the rest of us were being brainwashed through these audiophile forums.
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When an audio designer is deciding on what turnover frequency will be the most likely effective to the most systems, it is a gamble. Say for example a bass tone control. Ok, where will the turnover frequency be set? I have seen them set as low as 20hz all the way up to 120hz. If you give the consumer a choice of 3 different possible turnover frequencies, 30hz, 50hz, or 100hz, then there is a greater chance that the control can do a more effective job with your system. Same of course with treble. Maybe 3khz, 6khz, or 12khz, etc.
Maybe the best that I have had was by SAE, which used a two band per channel parametric EQ.
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Reading this article may remove some of the apprehension {or dare I say guilt) in using the Loki for many audiophiles, including me. I’ve had it for a couple of years but, although I believe in it, have used it very sparingly to very positive effect.
it really does make a remarkable difference in the enjoyment of some sources.
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