Thiel Owners

yabe1951
I will second the ARC Ref3 pre-amp. I, too, had the pleasure of meeting Don Hoatson (R.I.P.) of The Listening Room back in 2012. A very fine Gentleman of Audio.

I found the sound quality of his rooms outstanding from a minimalist approach. Entry level Straightwire cabling and hardly any room treatment(s).  At that time his space was in a medical plaza.
Happy Listening!

audiojan
Good to see you here.  Several reviewers of the Audio press still list the Cardas Golden Reference as an interconnect preference.
Most will concur about the Clear/ Beyond being much better speaker cables.

Happy Listening!

yabe1951
Good to see you gain. Yes, the Kimber Kable Monocle XL is suggested by Taylor of Goldprint Audio in NC. He was a Thiel Audio dealer and remains a Kimber dealer to date.
Happy Listening!

I use a Modwright LS36.5 DM tube preamp and an EVS 1200 Amp (discussed here -  https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/life-with-ric-schultz-2200-highly-tweaked-evs-1200-class-d-icepower-d) with my 3.7s

yabe1951,

I've heard several other people recommend using a tube preamp with a SS power amp to drive Thiel speakers. The last time I seriously listened to any tube gear was many years ago, and I came away liking the liquid midrange but disliking the flabby low end I heard in my demo. I also did not like the idea of having to change tubes and deal with sonic changes as the tubes aged. However, maybe it's time to give a modern tube preamp a chance to impress me.

audiojan,

I'd love to hear those Clear Beyond speaker cables in my system, but they are just too expensive for me to seriously consider. I have a pretty long speaker cable run (7-meter pair) in my 2-channel system, and the list price for a pair of the Clear Beyonds would be $21,470. I paid around $400 for the Straight Wire Encore cables I've used for several decades, so I can't wrap my head around the idea of paying thousands of dollars more to replace the Encores. I could afford the Cardas Parsec speaker wires (at $1575 per 7m pair), but I'd be reluctant to spend more than that, especially without any assurance that they would sound better than my current Straight Wire cables.

I did some in-home testing of moderately priced interconnects last year and ended up liking the Cardas Parsec (in a 1-meter length) better than the Shunyata Venom or similarly priced interconnects from Synergistic Research. I'd be inclined to try a similar speaker cable shoot-out in my system if I could try several samples of wire that were long enough to demo without having to move my amps and source equipment out of their cabinets and across the room.

I'm glad you found some cables that have taken your speakers to a new level.

The best cables I've ever used are my Cardas Clear Beyond speaker cables. Yes, expensive, but the difference from Golden Reference was staggering. Took the speakers to a new level.

May I chime in with pairing that has worked well for me? My Thiel 3.6 set is driven by a modified McCormack DNA 1 with Kimber Monocle XL cable. Last year, I replaced my ARC LS 9 with the an ARC Reference 3. I purchased all of my gear used a piece at time over many years which is the only way I could come close to affording any of it. Don Hoatson (since passed, RIP) of the Listening Room in Baltimore always suggest that Thiels are well served by running a SS amp (Classe, Pass Labs, McCormack are reasonable choices purchased used) and a tube preamp to add a touch of warmth and sweetness. Don may have heard this from Kathy Gornik. I was never sure that this was not just sales hype, but now, finally, I know better. The rubric of using Thiel+SS amp+tube pre=joy is real from my experience. The upgrade for me of the LS9 to Ref 3 was pure magic with Thiels. Heard much on recording that I have never heard before with a wonderful spatial
context and refinement. 

No - actually I have Zenwave audio for most of the power cords on the essential stuff like amp, preamp, DAC, Music Server in the main system.  I have a Teo Audio balanced cable between the music server and the preamp and an NBS balanced cable between the preamp and amp.  I have some WyWires power cords in secondary systems and most of the RCA cables are homemade from Neotech silver/gold wire.

sdl4

Thank You for the clarification on Belden/Canare.
I am certain that the Cable manufacturing is no different than Electronics manufacturing involving cutting the proverbial corner(s).
I also believe that any Audio manufacturer should act in a forthcoming manner regarding origins of raw materials (china).

I do ask this pertinent information whenever visiting dealers/retailers.

Happy Listening!

jafant,

Blue Jeans sells two brands of speaker wire: several versions of Belden cable and the Canare 4S11, which is what I use to feed my PowerPoint 1.2 speakers in my HT system. The 4S11 is a "star quad" design with four 14-gauge conductors that can be used for bi-wiring or with the four wires combined into two wires, which is then equivalent to a pair of 11-gauge wires. The 4S11 is good for long runs and can be purchased in bulk, which is what I did. I've heard stories that some cable companies would buy 4S11 in bulk and then dress it up with thick mesh coverings and fancy looking connectors so that it could be sold at dramatically higher prices. I don't know if that story is true, but it sounds like something an unethical cable maker might do.

prof

I concur with Thiel Audio being a well-designed loudspeaker, not requiring an exotic cable,  for performance. The ear/brain,  is the only measurement tool for cable/cord assessment and evaluation. 
Have fun auditioning those new cables with your friend. I would be interested in reading about the brand/model(s) tested.

Happy Listening!

sdl4

Good to see you here. Belden/Blue Jeans cables are quite popular.
I have not auditioned either brand. I am not familiar with Canare.

Happy Listening!

cascadesphil

Thank You for the follow up. Are you using a full loom of WyWires?

Happy Listening!

" Thank You for citing WyWires. Which model(s) have you owned / tried?"

I currently have the Platinum (speaker cables).  I had an older (WyWires) pair (when the company was first started) from an older series for a bit and some home made things along the way as well.

I always enjoy reading what Prof has to say, even though I don't agree with everything he has to say about audio cables. Like Prof, though, my views are not at either extreme in the cable wars because I can't afford to buy super-expensive cables and I don't think that we've figured out the right things to measure in order to be able to rely on measurements alone to know how audio equipments sounds. So I'm not either a price-no-object audiophile or a pure "objectivist." 

I currently have Canare speaker wire (which I terminated myself) connected to my five Thiel PowerPoints in my basement HT system, and I use a range of Belden interconnects with that system. The sound I get with tv and movies in my HT system is very clear and listenable, and I have no burning desire to replace what I have with more expensive cables. However, I have tried a range of cheap to moderately priced cables in my 2-channel system in my living room, and I have had to go slightly beyond my usual "BlueJeans budget" to be happy with the sound from my PS Audio amps and Thiel 2.2 speakers. I'm currently using moderately priced Straight Wire speaker cable and Cardas interconnects.

I respect that Prof has actually listened to many expensive cables and likes his Thiels with Belden wire from BlueJeans cable "better" than may high-priced systems. What that tells me is that he actually hears some differences between systems with different cables, though I don't know if he's tried some of those expensive wires with his own Thiels. Regardless, I'm completely fine with his willingness to use his own ears and reasoned judgment to decide what cables to use with his system. 

Here's where my perspective is a little different. Prof suggests that he prefers using his "neutral-performance" BlueJeans cable rather than searching for cables to function as tone controls, but I take the view that every cable functions as a tone control in some way. Belden cables are certainly not immune to having that issue, and I would not regard them as any more neutral than more expensive cables.

Interestingly, BlueJeans Cable has recently started to offer the Iconoclast line of cables, which has been designed by a now-retired Belden engineer who believed that he could improve on the stock Belden speaker wire and interconnects by making cables that both measured and sounded better. Belden is now making these cables, although the challenges of building the new designs make the cables more expensive. I have not heard them yet in my system, but I hope to at some point to see if they are worth the extra cost for me. It's interesting that even Belden engineers think that their cables can be improved upon.

In my experience, cables can sound different - even when tested blindly - but different is not always better, and system synergy and personal preference play a large role in making cable choices.  

Brayeagle.

*bro fist*

Not many of us here;-)

It's not like I'm unfamiliar with having "heard" high end cables.  I used to review audio gear for a while and have well-placed pals in the high end audio reviewing business, so I have for years been hearing systems, swapping cables with top of the line cabling (literally, sometimes my pal's system is running up to 50 or 60 grand just for the cables and power conditioners!  He's getting a big new haul of cables in again so I'll hear the system again with new cables soon).  I've heard speakers I own with cables that I almost guarantee are higher in the bleeding edge of price than anyone in this thread is likely using (think top of the line Nordost, Crystal Cable and others).  So, my own view is not due to lack of experience in the subject :-)

But...I would never tell someone else how to spend their own money.  If someone gets a buzz from trying out various cables, enjoy life!

(There's another "extreme"for me which is those "objectivists" who dismiss so much in high end audio that they pride themselves in purchasing the cheapest possible equipment, speakers, amps etc.  That approach doesn't appeal to me either, not for the "saving money" aspect which is fine, but for the way it dismisses so many interesting designs available in high end audio).

cascadesphil

Thank You for citing WyWires.  Which model(s) have you owned / tried?

Happy Listening!

vair68robert

Nice catch!  To my ears, Cabling, is the last frontier. Too many options, too little time to discover.  Have fun!

Happy Listening!

Once more, I must agree with prof.
I had several speakers before ending up with a pair of 3.5s and then 2.7s.
I use BlueJeans Cables for my speakers, made from AWG 10 Belden stock, with superb terminal connections  - - spades and banana plugs. I've never been unhappy with using BlueJeans cables, both for the speakers and for interconnects. As a plus, saving money on esoteric cables has permitted me to upgrade my electronics and acquire additional CDs for my collection.  (Disclaimer: I do NOT have deep pockets, and disposable income has to be allocated to items that will make very clear and unmistakeable significant improvements in my listening environment. 

I love to listen to my music, from start to finish, and not be on the edge of my seat, listening for someone in the second violins to miss a beat. 

Just my thoughts, after having spent more time with this wonderful hobby than most.   My points of reference by which I judge my system are the Vienna Philharmonic in the Great hall of the Musikverein playing Beethoven, Brahms, Mahler and Strauss, plus the Orchestra and  Chorus of the La Scala in operas by Puccini and Verdi.  Over a period of twenty years,  I've been fortunate to hear (and see)  symphonic performances and operas in these venues.

vair68robert
Recommended as Thiel compatible .

I guess that I will try to look at Thiel owners of 2.7 and 3.7 speakers ,
since it seems that Cable compatabilty is dependent on the speaker model ( with the the amp powering ) .

Or you can get some cables that are confirmed as built to well known standards for audio signal transmission, and used by the pros, but which are sold for usually much less than those hawked in the audiophile world.

Examples like Canare, Belden (which are available for instance from BlueJeans cable).   If a speaker is not "compatible" with standard, competently, neutral-performance cable, then it's a defective design.

Fortunately Thiel speakers are well designed and don't need anything exotic to do their job.

I've used Beldon speaker cables for my Thiel 3.7 and 2.7 and it "just works."  That combo sounded better than most speakers I auditioned that were hooked up to gazillion-dollar cabling because the Thiel speakers are that well designed, and a competently designed "everyday" cable allows them to sing, rather than trying to find cables to act as tone controls.

Anyway...just another view for you to consider :-)....you'll get a lot more people suggesting you go about playing the "specialized cable lottery" and if you find that fun and have the pocket change for it, go wild!
(Back to our regular Thiel talk...)

I've been using WyWires with my 3,7s

After looking back to the beginning I only got thru 4 pages and found these
Audioquest
Alpha-core Goertz 
Kubala Sousna
M.I.T.
Straightwire
Transparent 
and
WireWorld
Reccommended as Thiel compatable .

I guess that I will try to look at Thiel owners of 2.7 and 3.7 speakers ,
since it seems that Cable compatabilty is dependent on the speaker model ( with the the amp powering ) .
  

tomic601

Good to see you as always. Can you suggest certain models from Audioquest, Cardas and Kimber Kable?  All of these brands offer an extensive catalog in depth.

Happy Listening!

bluetone,
if digital is a significant piece of your puzzle, then imho at some point a separate DAC will be a worthwhile  investment. Mate the Bluesound Vault to the right DAC and it will kick things up to a whole other level.

bluetone

Sounds like a fun project replacing those binding posts. 
Keep us updated on your progress.

Happy Listening!

for those interested in my experience with vintage amplifiers, here are some thoughts.
To me, the main limitation my two amps (Yamaha M85 and Denon POA 1500) is the binding posts.  They are not 5 way and do not support banana plugs, and wire gauge is limited.  With such powerful amps, it seems to me they would benefit from new binding posts that allow use of better speaker cables.   I plan on replacing both with suitable 5 ways, both are a bit of a PITA as the original bindings are soldered directly to a PCB, I'll need to jimmy-jam something to get them to work, but I think it will be worth it.  
The Yamaha, at 325 wpc/4 ohms, sounds great thru my 3.5's, the Denon sounds good but I can tell a difference in the two amps.  The Yammy has LED power meters (bar graph type), the Denon has sexy analog meters and wood side panels, definitely a better looking amplifier.  I have both a black face and a silver face for the Denon.  I'm using the Denon while I update the Yamaha binding posts, then we will see.
As with any vintage equipment, I'm looking at a restoration at some point, but that's what is nice about having a backup.
I'm using a Bluesound Vault for my digital files, using the built-in DAC of the Bluesound.  Its pretty good and don't know if a separate DAC would be worth the investment.  Also running a Kenwood KD-5100 turntable that I found a couple of months ago, new in the box, a time capsule from 1981.  The Denon preamp has inputs for both MC  and MM carts, but you have to physically move the tt rca cables to a different pair of jacks when you go from MM to MC.  I want to eventually get another preamp that has a bit more flexibility in cartridge load, or an external phono stage.  So that's where I'm at, stick around and who knows what I'll have next month!

cascadesphil

Thank You for reporting your experience with M.I.T. cabling as well.

Happy Listening!

pops

Thank You for suggesting Straightwire and Analysis Plus cabling options as well.

Happy Listening!

uncle_monkey

Thank You for reporting your experience with M.I.T. cabling.

Happy Listening!

tomic601 good call on the Kimber, 8TC is an extraordinary value and works extremely well with Thiels even better for me than 3035.  They can be lean in the midrange with Thiels so system matching is imperative.  I have also found Straightwire and Analysis Plus to work well.

I have found most quality stranded copper cables work will with Thiel and you don't need to spend long on cables.  I have learned that the hard way.

IMO the Kimbers , Audioquest and Cardas pair well with both Thiel and Vandersteen. The Canare in a shotgun biwire with good connections is also an extraordinary value.

I had settled on MIT back in the 90's when I was originally pushing my 2.2's with Adcom. Can't remember which/what, I did upgrade to a better MIT I was so impressed and had big gray boxes everywhere. I'd even tried out Cardas and Audioquest from friends and was pretty meh.


However, when I got my BAT amp & pre, I wanted to get some balanced interconnect cable to take advantage of that. At the time I got a screaming deal on PS Audio Xstream everything as they were discontinuing everything but the power cable. So I figured I'd just buy everything I could lay my hands on and replaced all my cable with PS. The speaker cable is short of comic though, truly garden hose stuff.


After it was broken in, I couldn't go back to the MIT. In fact, the cable seemed to be the final missing link. I'd seen measurements indicating that the VK-3iX measured much better using the balanced connects, that might have had something to do with it. But when I would swap out just speaker cable, there was still a notable difference. In the end, I really enjoy the PS and hope I can figure out a way to continue using the speaker cable. But the speaker cable was really short so that's going to be iffy. I do still have a box full o' MIT somewhere!

02-11-2020 1:14amsolobone22

M.I.T. is a sonic match for Thiel loudspeakers. Models will depend upon budget and taste. The company offers an extensive catalog of cabling.

Happy Listening!

Actually MIT has downsized (if that's the right word) into 3 categories with variants in each.  The Reference uber expensive series, the 2CD3 series which is also very expensive, and the Heritage EVO line the new entry into the brand, still not cheap.

The two categories below the Reference line offer significant trickle down technology that makes them a great value if you have the funds.  I use the EVO line and it is significantly better than the older reference MIT's.

I've always been an MIT user/fan.   Started with them, tried many other cables, and came back.  Their business model became way too extensive and confusing for a while.   I think their new offerings make a lot of sense.  They are and always have been however price leaders in the industry.

I used these MIT cables many moons ago -  https://www.highperformancestereo.com/cables/speaker-cables/mit-mh-750-music-hose-8-foot-pair-spade-lugs.html    I think I had 2.3s back then.  Actually had two pair (an 8 ft. and a 12ft) and used one of the long ones on a Thiel SCS2 center channel.  I picked them up cheap as a guy painted his baseboard and they were covered in paint.  I ended up cleaning them and selling them for about the same as I paid for them about a year and a half later as I made a pair of speaker cables from (dual runs of) Belden 83030 that clearly bested them.  So I wasn't super impressed by them.  They were OK for the cheap used price I got them for (I think the 8 ft. pair listed for $450 and the 12 footer for $600 and I think I paid $200 for them way back when and after I cleaned them and shipped them I got my $200 back).

solobone22

I can remember reading this article by BD upon initial release. 
Upon re-visiting the content, yes, it appears that the 330 is preferred from pre to power amp. Another M.I.T. consideration is the Network box (and correct implementation into one's system).  Oddly, there are not many M.I.T. reviews out there? This company has been around for a very long time. 

Happy Listening!

@jafant this is the review that led me to try MIT.  Could it be that I need to try it with the 330 from preamp to amp in addition to the 750’s? Perhaps it is however I haven’t had the opportunity as of yet.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/mit-mi-330-proline-shotgun-interconnects-amp-mh-750-shotgun-spea...

pops

It would be an interesting shoot out for P.A.D. and Tara Labs on Thiel Audio speakers. Over the years, I have not read much about either brand sonic matching.

Happy Listening!

solobone22

M.I.T. is a sonic match for Thiel loudspeakers. Models will depend upon budget and taste.  The company offers an extensive catalog of cabling.

Happy Listening!

oblgny

Yes - I do remember that specific search function from Audiogon 1.0
I am still strongly considering an Integrated amp. AYRE is the front runner at this time. I would like to audition the Aesthetix and B.A.T for good measure. Hope that you are well and contemplating your next great purchase.

Happy Listening!

Thank you pops and solobone22

I had also tried 14 AWG solid core Neotech wire and they sounded flat 
or lifeless .

I guess I'll read past posts to see what others have found rewarding .

I have 2 pairs of Tara Labs cables. One set only states that they are the Space & Time model (they are in a smoke colored plastic jacket with a pair of solid core wires for each positive and negative).  The other set is called Astral Blue.  They didn’t mate well between the Bryston 7BST and the 2.7’s.

I tried Tara Labs The One and thought it was on the soft side.  I also tried some now discontinued PAD Provectus and it was better but was missing something.  I surmised that solid core speaker cables are not a good match with Thiel.

Since the post before this was about speaker cables 
I thought that I would join in .

I've been using Cardas Neutral Reference since I've had my 2.7s ,
yesterday a freind came over with Sunyata Black Mamba speaker cables 
and I have to say the sound was beautiful , interesting and different .
The speakers dissapeared but at the same time I don't think that the sound was a sharp or fast .
A big problem was that the cables were so stiff that the bending radius was over a foot and they would not fit behind my amp without removing one of my shelves just to be able to experience them .
So I am now thinking about new ( used ) speaker cables .
Have any Thiel owners experienced Tara Labs ?

Thanks
Rob

Had the opportunity to try MIT 750 shotgun speaker cables today.  
From Krell TAS to 3.6 and from Bryston 7BST’s to 2.7.

In my setups there was now a mid bass hump and a lack of deep bass.  The mids were a little sweeter and there was additional sparkle to the highs.

I was really excited and ended up being disappointed.  The reviews did mention that the MIT cable works well when using all of the same brand (I mean what marketing department would say otherwise!!!).

Anyone else have experience with MIT and Thiels?

Currently running DH Labs Q-10 and Kimber 8VS respectively.

jafant...

Yup.  As reluctant as I am to classify myself as a "business" selling or buying here,  A'gon stands alone as the site best suited toward doing so.  US Audiomart is fair at best,  and although a lot of the equipment advertised here appears there as well,  it is far simpler to communicate with people here.  What I do like about that site is the ability to sort searches by state,  something which A'gon should implement toot-suite.  [sp?]  ( A while back you COULD search within a geographical define by typing in a zip code,  but that disappeared with nary a word to the unwise. )

By the way, have you purchased any amplification yet?