@brunner007, I agree with your plan. Your Threshold SA/2’s should be adequate (just) in the interim, but choosing your speakers first is prudent. Though waiting until you are in your next room might make more sense.
Thiel Owners
Guys-
I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model?
Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!
Keep me posted & Happy Listening!
I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model?
Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!
Keep me posted & Happy Listening!
13,843 responses Add your response
@unsound, thank you for your suggestion. I agree, the SA/2s are not the most powerful amps. I also have Hypex NC500 monoblocks (700W into 4 ohms) and a Pass Labs X150. But the Thresholds have such lovely mids and rich, detailed bass :) Unfortunately, top Thiel models are really scarce here in Europe—especially if you're looking for ones in good condition and at a reasonable price. Finding suitable amps for them is much easier. That’s why I’m considering buying the loudspeakers while they’re available, and then getting different amps later on. |
@brunner007, While perhaps not addressing you immediate question; the Threshold SA/2’s while very lovely amps with good current delivery into impedance, I think the Threshold SA/ 2’s have about the bare minimum power output needed for some of the Thiel’s you’re considering. Perhaps you might consider more powerful amps, especially if you’re considering a larger room. |
Greetings from Prague — longtime passive lurker here. I’ve found lots of useful information and many interesting stories (thank you, tomthiel!) here . I’m a big fan of Thiel loudspeakers. It all started with the CS2.4 a few years ago. Currently, I own the CS3.7 and CS2.3 in a secondary system. Now I’m contemplating the CS7.2, CS5i, CS7 or CS2.7. They’re currently all for sale relatively close by and at roughly the same price — $4,500. Are any of them worth it compared to the CS3.7? Can any of them deliver fuller mids and the same smoothness as the CS3.7? Or are the CS3.7 truly the "final" Thiels and I should invest elsewhere — electronics, room treatment and so on? My amps are Threshold SA/2 Class A monoblocks. I believe they have plenty of current delivery. My current listening room is small, but I plan for a bigger one in a new house. I sold the CS2.4 after I got the 3.7s. The CS2.4s were always a little edgy, but had more midbass — which I think is slightly lacking in the CS3.7. Overall, for me, the CS2.4 perform better in technical aspects than the CS2.3, but they lack the refinement of the CS3.7. I would prefer a slightly more relaxed frequency response. The CS2.3 has a nicely relaxed frequency response, but lacks the detail, separation, and refinement of the CS3.7. But they’re still Thiels, and to me, they’re great for casual listening and movies, as they’re slightly more forgiving. And with good amplification, you can still enjoy well-recorded music. I mainly listen to acoustic music and have a strong bias toward smooth vocals and instrument separation. The CS3.7s are fabulous at this task, given proper amplification and a good DAC. But I would appreciate slightly more dynamics and more midbass energy. Thank you all in advance!
Some of my reference recordings: https://tidal.com/browse/album/315756254?u https://tidal.com/browse/album/1099334?u https://tidal.com/browse/album/16991276?u https://tidal.com/browse/album/70197763?u https://tidal.com/browse/album/142845359?u |
I sent an email to Gary at Coherent Source Service inquiring if the tweeter ferrofluid will eventually need replacing as my CS1.2s age (similar to replacing the crankcase oil in a car). If so, at how many years of use. He responded, "I don't have a complete understanding of how ferrofluid breaks down. Some old tweeters come in and the ferrofluid looks great. Other times it comes in and looks sludgy. I don't think time alone is a determinant in the breakdown of fluid, so I'm exploring whether heat or exposure to adhesives in the driver are the primary factors." Based on my serial numbers, he thinks my 1.2s were built in 1989-1990 putting my speakers to >35 years old. I'm pretty good at DIY electronic projects. I have ordered new ferrofluid and plan on replacing it in the tweeters. If there is anyone here who has done this, I'd appreciate any advice. I'll post results of any difference in sound quality afterwards. |
A pair of CS 3.6 showed up on craigslist today. Asking $100. My curiosity was piqued; the owner, a very nice guy, shared that a cat had mauled just about every driver save one. Tweeters too... that cat must have been the size of a mountain lion. I thought about it. On the one hand, I don’t want to be the guy who stuffs a bunch of Parts Express drivers into a pair of big Thiels. On the other hand, a proper restoration will cost more than a good pair of used CS 3.6, which is not the model I am looking for anyway. I didn’t feel I could do them justice, so I let the seller know I had decided to pass. And I’m kind of proud I did. Kind of proud of saying no to the siren’s song of yet another needy project. I hope they go to a good home.
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@beetlemania. Sorry for the delay in responding. The Treos are quite good at portraying round, live instruments in space. The sound gets out of the cabinet and lives in the room. Which is wonderful and one of the qualities I love about Thiels. Compared, for example, to a pair of Harbeths I heard recently, that sounded nice, warm and relaxed, but boxy. But the Vandys tilt to the lean side, lacking in the upper bass-low midrange perhaps. So they don’t give me the weight, authority that I want, especially at the lower volume levels I am listening at more and more. Sometimes I just want more of the belly of a sawing double bass. |
@tomthiel as an owner of a number of Thiels (3.7,2.3,SCS2,SCS4) I am excited to hear about your plans, and fingers are crossed for your success. But I really have to, and hate to ask, any plans for improvements on my beloved 3.7s? I need these to last forever! |
TomT I can see with my minds eye that the elimination of 32 parts in a crossover would make for a rather large improvement in dynamic coherence and scale. While working in a retail audio shop I saw 2 PRS of 5s in our shop that were nuked in the process of party powered by some sort of bridged Adcom amp. There were over 100 parts on this crossover sled. What a sight for smokey eyes. TomD
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CS5s. The difference between the 5 and its 'improved' version is that Jim's newly developed woofers weren't ready when the 5 had to be released. The improved woofers incorporated copper shunt rings for more stable motor response. Those i woofers are not available (as far as I know). Nearly all 5s in the field are 5i conversions. The 'i' drivers have MDF mass plugs instead of the 5's rubber cone mats. In my recent minimal recordings I used CS7.2s as site monitors. Very nice. My studio has the CS5i, which are overall less articulate and nuanced, but their coherent bass alignment makes them more real to me. My invisioned CS5.2 will have a sculpted baffle for proper driver placement, thereby eliminating 32 elements for analog delay on the 2 midrange drivers. |
jafant - we do have a robust stable up upgrades that address issues beyond classic Thiel's scope. None of Jim's work is being altered. The jujitsu is attracting serious talent to form a viable company. I will no-doubt have relevant products for all of you. The big deal is to develop replacement drivers to keep these products (and more) viable into the future. Stirring the pot. |
Jon and other impatients- My hope is to join forces with CSS and other talent to re-incorporate Thiel Audio. I have a clear vision and a strong group of significant upgrade offerings. What I lack is critical mass to attract capital for the key ingredient. That is new drivers. Without that key ingredient, classic Thiel’s are dead men walking. I won’t itemize the disappointments, but I will say that my commitment continues. First offerings will be ‘universal’ applicable beyond Thiel speakers. Cable and a family of suspension products plus a new capacitor family are in this group. Manufacturing start-up is the order of the day.
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beetlemania Good to see you as always. I understand what 77jovian is trying to convey. I was not impressed with Vandersteen Quattro nor Treo speakers. Something was missing, I cannot place my finger on it. One is better off with the 3A Signature or 5A speaker. Aside from these (2) models, next best step up is the Kento. It is simply Outstanding! Thiel models CS 2.4, CS 2.4 SE, CS 2.7 and CS 3.7 are far better than Vandy Quattro and Treo to my ears. The CS 3.7 is a strong competitor against the Kento. This is a Testament for Jim's design and execution practices.
Happy Listening! |
@tomthiel I’m sorry if some of the questions have already been discussed. When are we going to have full access to what’s going on behind the curtain? Will it be a grand opening of “Thiel Renaissance LLC” with an online store and multiple items for each of the models you’re working on? Will it be a trickle release of upgrade paths? Will it be a collaboration with CSS? I’m getting impatient like a kid waiting on a cereal box toy. |
“I like the Treos, but I have really fond memories of Thiel 2 2's that I had years ago. ” I am using an Ayre AX-5 Twenty to drive my heavily modded CS 2.4 (albeit, total resistance is on par with OEM). The CS 2 2 looks to be an easier load. With my combo of amp and source (Ayre QB-9 Twenty), clipping sets in just shy of 100 dB on the 2.4. That’s more than loud enough for my tastes. YMMV, and unsure how the difference in sensitivity translates. Curious what is missing with your Treos. I absolute love my hot-rodded 2.4s (almost certainly my last ever speakers). But if I were buying new, the Treo CT would certainly be on my very short list. |
@jafant. thanks for the response (@unsound, too). Currently, I am using bi-wired Anti Cables for the Treos. Sources at this moment are an Ayre CX5eMP and a Lumin D2. Listening habits include a lot of classical, jazz, rock (though not much metal), bluegrass and acoustic guitar in various ensembles and formats. |
One more question about my 1.6's and adequately powering them...is the IOM Ultra enough or is the 500 better? Is the 500 too much? Thanks!! IOM Ultra
IOM NCore 500
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Thiel CS2 2 loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com Ayre Acoustics AX-5 integrated amplifier Measurements | Stereophile.com Unlike some other Thiel models the CS 2.2's only have a somewhat small and fairly brief dip below 4 Ohms While the Ayre is not actually spec'd to deal with the Thiel CS 2.2's, and FWIW wouldn't be my choice to power them; depending of course on your room and desired volume levels I think you'll find the AX- 20 adequate. |
foamcutter - congratulations on your purchase. The CS2.2 is dear to me, having served as my location recording monitor and small venue playback for 35 years. I have recently been developing performance upgrades, and the 2.2s have served as workhorses for much of that work. There will be user-installable performance enhancements available one of these days. Note that Thiel developed this tweeter from the ground up for the CS5. Although its technology was later surpassed, it served brilliantly in the CS5, 3.6 and 2.2. |
After spending a good part of nine days with the new-to-me CS2.2 speakers, I can say they are a substantial upgrade in every way over my CS1.5 which I still think highly of. Detailed but not harsh, balanced, and good imaging despite still finding the best location for them. The highs are airy, mids are very good, and sometimes I think the bass is slightly lacking.... then the mood of the music changes or I change genres and suddenly all the bass in the music is there. |
I have an opportunity to score some Thiel 2 2's, which would replace my Vandersteen Treo CT's. I like the Treos, but I have really fond memories of Thiel 2 2's that I had years ago. They would be paired with an Ayre AX 20 integrated. I am not one who deeply understands phase angles and impedance curves, current demands, sensitivity plots, etc. I would heartily appreciate any thoughts on pairing the Thiels with the Ayre. And, also any overall thoughts on what I might achieve and give up with the swap. |
Thanks for the heads up on the Buckeye amps. I decided to hold off on buying an older amp and will set things up with an IOM Ultra (Hypex-NCORE as well, like Buckeye) amp I already have and see how that goes. Specs are: 250W stereo: |