Thiel Owners

So happy that there is actually an active Thiel community out there. I bought a new pair of the model 2 2s way back in the early 90s but quickly traded them even-up for a used pair of 3.6es. I have never regretted doing so.

Recently I upgraded my amplification by adding an Audio Research Ref 3 preamp along with a full Monty refresh of my McCormack DNA 1 (now Ultra Platinum). I have discovered that really good tube preamps work well with Thiel (prior was Audio Research LS 9). The McCormack DNA 1 with the Plitron transformer- wait for it- can "transform" Thiels. The amp can dump current far beyond what is necessary to control the 3.6es. Steve McCormack should be recognized along with Pass, Bascom King and Dan D'Agostino et al. as a Hall of Fame amp designer. 

Finally, cables matter more than I thought. Power cords are Shunyata Alpha HC (C-19 on ARC Ref 3) and ICs are Audioquest Columbia balanced XLR on all ins and outs.

The Thiels dutifully reported every change I made. The system is warm, musical, revealing but absolutely none fatiguing. It provides a large and detailed sound-stage and a "coherent" presentation of the source material. Yup, poor recording are not sugar-coated, but the good stuff is really, really good. I think that there are now "better" loudspeaker systems with more modern technology available, but make no mistake: Jim Thiel made a major contribution to the art and science of speaker design that has stood the test of time. His speaker designs are relevant, correct in concept and execution and timeless. Thanks Mr. Thiel.   

So happy to find thoughtful and wise Thiel owners/community... I am hoping to get a bit of advice. My 1st pair of Thiel speakers were the model 2 2 (no point, I think is correct). I could never afford a decent amp so, I "moved up" to the model 3.6 driven by an upgraded McCormack DNA 1 with the larger toroidal transformer, balanced inputs and just about every other option that Steve offered as of last year. I have been very pleased with the sound. The 3.6 reveals every tiny change made in electronics, cables, etc. I have been able to tune my system based on what I am hearing through the 3.6 system. So, as I am reaching the end of my working life (48 years as a middle school teacher) I have saved enough $$$ to "move up" again. I am considering the model 3.7 that is perhaps 4-5 times the cost of the 3.6. No expectation that the 3.7 is many times "better" than the 3.6. My question is, how might the 3.7 be an improvement over the model 3.6? The only time I heard the 3.7 was probably 10 years ago being driven by Ayre electronics. I was not impressed as the the system was far too lean, although the Thiel clarity, articulation and soundstage were mostly present. Should I hold tight or go for 3.7s? Thanks in advance.      

May I chime in with pairing that has worked well for me? My Thiel 3.6 set is driven by a modified McCormack DNA 1 with Kimber Monocle XL cable. Last year, I replaced my ARC LS 9 with the an ARC Reference 3. I purchased all of my gear used a piece at time over many years which is the only way I could come close to affording any of it. Don Hoatson (since passed, RIP) of the Listening Room in Baltimore always suggest that Thiels are well served by running a SS amp (Classe, Pass Labs, McCormack are reasonable choices purchased used) and a tube preamp to add a touch of warmth and sweetness. Don may have heard this from Kathy Gornik. I was never sure that this was not just sales hype, but now, finally, I know better. The rubric of using Thiel+SS amp+tube pre=joy is real from my experience. The upgrade for me of the LS9 to Ref 3 was pure magic with Thiels. Heard much on recording that I have never heard before with a wonderful spatial
context and refinement. 

New here. Perhaps the least interesting question ever... I just acquired CS 3.7s after having them inspected by Rob at Coherent Source Service. They arrived truck freight, and frankly not being as young and strong as I once was, I struggled to get them up the front steps and into the house. The boxes are large and heavy. So, what is the best method for unboxing a set of Thiel CS 3.7s? I suppose that one would open the bottom panels, set the box with the speaker upright, and lift the box up and off, but I have not done this since I got 3.6es in 1994 or so. I think there is a box within a box and some other packing in there. Forgot how I did it then... Thanks for helping with something so mundane.   

I have been happy with my long-time "Thiel friendly" McCormack DNA 1 (with SMc Audio upgrades). It provides sweetness and excellent midrange detail. Soundstage presentation is also 1st rate. Wide, very deep, and gives the impression of the music appearing to be at once a "whole" presentation with each instrument or voice being heard as completely distinct and apart from the others. The top end is articulate but not overly analytical or forward. The bass improved with the addition of the SMc Plitron transformer option, but this is no 100 plus pound monster amp. I would describe the bass as tuneful and accurate but slightly lacking in the chest-thumping slam and weight department compared with the really big amps with overbuilt power supplies and extra heavy-duty metalwork- Think Krell, Levinson, Moon, Pass, Classe & Bryston, etc. However, it does the double down trick with really impressive current capacity and drives the hell out of my 3.6es. 

https://www.stereophile.com/content/mccormack-power-drive-dna-1-power-amplifier-1992-measurements-pa...

In addition, these amps can be customized by SMc Audio to fit your system or needs. Steve McCormack has many decades of knowledge (wisdom!) gained by experimenting, careful listening (to systems and customers), and refining a brilliant design architecture. In my experience, McCormack is an excellent pairing with Thiels of the 3 series and smaller variety. I do not know how a DNA 1 would drive the larger 6es & 7s, but for my 3.6es (3.7s here and unboxed but not installed) it is glorious. McCormack made some bigger amps that might do the trick on 6es & 7s or I suppose you could have SMc configure DNA monoblocks.

I do not have audio memory long enough to completely recall the last time I heard Thiels with another amp. However, I do remember Classe as being very good, lush, and smooth sounding. I did hear 3.7es with an Ayre front end and amp that sounded a bit flat and emotionless, but that was a very long time ago in a demo room with 3.7s that might have been just out of the box.

Anyway, you may want to give McCormack a try. Oh, and if you hear any top-end edge, try a tube preamp. I have an ARC Ref 3 that helped open up the sound stage and beautifully refine the top end. Happy holidays and happy listening.  

SMc has worked on my amp twice making upgrades. Both were very successful. I suppose one advantage is that Mr. McCormack will "tailor" an amp to fit your needs and purposes. Like a good suit, instead of buying off the rack, Steve will be sure you get what fits. I am not surprised that your amp did well in comparison with others. At this point, SMc upgrades are essentially a hand-crafted product/solution w/o the need for mass production, a large dealer network to support, and ad budgets, etc. They can focus on what sounds best rather than worry about all of the requirements of running a large and complex production and sales operation. If they hear something better, it does not require a big redesign or operational change. This ongoing R&D may eventually run its course and further improvement may no longer be possible given whatever limitations the original amps create. Sometimes one must start from scratch to do better. Tesla seems to be working on that angle. But for now, and into the foreseeable future, what SMc Audio does seems to work very well. Perhaps this is why and how SMc can compete with more expensive amps.