"
Any actual difference the new PC could/would make will be subtle "
- teoretically yeah but it is not true. Most hifi powercables are just bling though, that`s correct. Expensive plugs does not improve anything. But again; try solid core pc`s. Even a recording-enginer should be able to hear the imroved dymamics and cleaned up soundstage. Lesson: to hear a differnce there has to be a difference.
"
Second, audio memory is extremely perishable.."
- that`s an urban legend. Our memory here will depend a lot on our skill-level, a skilled listener will understand and get a lot moore information out of any sample.
Imagine you`re on a jungle-safari for the first time. It`s your first night out in the jungle, and you can hear so many strange sounds while you`re lying in the tent trying to sleep. Your local guide on the other hand, he`s asleep allready, not worrying at all because he knows every sound and what they mean. But be shure, one "wrong" sound and he will be awake. That`s why he is still alive.
Just as we can remember a smell or a taste we can allso remember sound-experience. For as long as we live.
"
And doing that (A/B switching) to test a power cord is nearly impossible for a home audiophile.."
Now you`re beeing funny. Ever tryed this? Well it will off course depend on your skill-level AND the actual powercords, if there really is any difference.
As a norwegian I`m also familiar with this little trick known as "turn the net-phase". Since our ac-plugs can be turned 180 degrees we do this. And wow, it makes a difference. First of all to 3D and bass-timing/weight.
This off course confuses less skilled listeners but are easy as **** for an old geek.
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Use a $5K cable for the final 3 ft and plug it into a $3 outlet and $0.12/ft, 14 gauge wire that runs 75 ft back to the breaker box. |
Every time I read a cable topic, I visualize my bank account balance dropping. As a person nearing retirement, I just can't see myself throwing down much money on cable upgrades when I am trying to buy better or reference components. Cullen Cable will be my best option for the money.
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badger_erich
I know exactly what you mean. The cables I've bought in the last year are hopefully my last, with retirement a wee way away, but certainly a factor. The Audience Au24SX are certainly my end interconnects. My ATC SCM19v2 are my 'end game' speakers.
Locally made Mad Scientist power cables are my last as well. |
JerryBJI know exactly what you mean. The cables I've bought in the last year
are hopefully my last, with retirement a wee way away, but certainly a
factor. The Audience Au24SX are certainly my end interconnects. My ATC
SCM19v2 are my 'end game' speakers. Top quality stuff. Don't let the media / marketing shills or the mega rich (who want to feel special) try and convince you anything is lacking. If you are happy with them enjoy! This is what price to performance in audio boils down to. Marketers that want to sell a dream at outrageous prices. And the people with more money than brains that want to make you feel humble and try and justify their purchase.
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Delkal
And also got them at good prices.
The Audience Au24SX were around US$390/pair, and the ATC SCMs were US$2000.
Certainly at the lower end of high cost (which I'd never pay). |
rcfun33 says:
"
Use a $5K cable for the final 3 ft and plug it into a $3 outlet and $0.12/ft, 14 gauge wire that runs 75 ft back to the breaker box."
That would be a real waste of a nice power cord unless you added at least two zero's behind the outlet price. |
The Audience Au24SX were around US$390/pair. Just looked up how much I paid for them. Sorry, more like US$700 a pair. A bargain, but not a steal. |
Well you could diy better ones for 20-20 bucks but who cares |
For me it makes no sense to buy "costly" or even relatively costly power cord before addressing all the other factors:
cleaning the electrical grid of house and room,
Adressing the problem of mechanical resonance and vibrations, an underestimated one,
Treatment of the room and of speakers...
and even the search for the right source gear, or amplifier and speakers is mandatory in the first place because the power cord will not act the same in a different audio grid...
There is controversy with this subject, and all those in favor of only cheap cords, and those who vouch with costly one, are nor wrong neither right, this is their experience in a totally specific environment...
The power cord is the last think to buy like costly cables for your speakers or dac and amplifier...
Choose first the right gear for you, after that makes the three problems I speak of rightly answered...
After that spend money on cables and cords ( not too much tough) the reason is the impact of cable and cords is less , way less, than the right answers to all the other problems and choices...My best to all...
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I have been interested in this topic but have been put off by some of the comments on this thread. It seems to me that there are three different positions displayed:
1. I didn't expect it to make a difference, but it did. Now I'd like to share with others and talk about it and understand why.
2. It can't make a difference (accompanied by an apparent unwillingness to try it) and those who think so are fooling themselves.
3. Agnostic - don't know or not sure. Maybe curious.
I can say this - I am now powering my system off of a lead-acid battery generator that puts out a perfect 60 Hz sine wave. I'm using stock power cords. The transformation in my system is roughly equivalent to a major power amp or preamp upgrade.
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Does anyone have any experience with Cardas Clear Beyond Interconnect? |
Use top of the line Furutech connections with Accrolink cable....you'll save lots of money, and be completely satisfied
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@stringreen Thank you. Would you know or recommend anyone that can build a set for me? Cheers |
BLUMARTINI......It is oh so easy to do it yourself and you'll pat yourself on your back with pride.
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Bluemartini, Check out VH Audio for the wire & connectors. Chris is a great guy to deal with. |
unfairlane
Well you could diy better ones for 20-20 bucks but who cares The thing I find most annoying here is the arrogance of some members. Especially when comparing DIY products against companies’ products who invest so much into developing and improving their product, and are continually doing so. And reviewers? Surely they have not been fooled, as you so blatantly accuse others of being. I have no doubt some DIY cables are indeed very good value. However, when I spend money, I’m looking for better than most of these can provide. Audience has a very good reputation, and very good reviews. |
Show me a cable with bad professional reviews ... |
audiozenology" Show me a cable with bad professional reviews..." Velloman cables have gotten some bad reviews in my country but that makes no difference at all they are really excellent cables and widely misunderstood by those like you who claim a "moral authority" to instruct others on the design, application, and use of products intended for use in a Music Reproduction System. |
Many folks who test cables professionally, i.e, magazine reviewers, et al, don’t know HOW to test cables. They simply don’t know all the variables. Is that being too harsh? Furthermore, audio reviewers/editors usually won’t publish bad reviews of any product including cables because they don’t wish to kill a small growing company. Duh!
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Thanks for the comic interlude Clearthink. Are you finished stalking for the day, or should I expect more angry posts? I am putting together a compendium of your rants and just want to know how much time I should allocate today??? |
Do I detect a budding Audiogon bromance? 👯♂️
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audiozenology"Are you finished stalking for the day, or should I expect more angry posts? I am putting together a compendium of your rants and just want to know how much time I should allocate today???" Others in this forum have accused you of being a troll/stalker and now I see further expression, evidence, and demonstration of that characteristic so you would be well adviced, counseled, and cautioned to observe the terms of service of this group both in "spirit and letter." |
After my initial buying mistakes made years ago based on too much faith in reviews, I now consider reviews to be leisure reading with the following exceptions;
- I have had personal contact with a couple of reviewers who I give more credit to than the others,
- I pay more attention to reviews that make direct and meaningful comparisons between the product currently under review and competing products
- I appreciate reviewers who at least make a good faith effort to match their review system with the component being reviewed (I.e., no mega-watt power amps for horn speakers, no impedance mis-matches, etc. - you get the picture)
- I like good photographs, and especially of the innards of the component under review....so, 6moons is at the top of my list for photographs
on the other side of the coin,
- I am greatly skeptical of manufacturers that do not allow pictures of the insides of their components or, worse yet, void the warranty when an owner opens a component to look inside
- I am skeptical of reviewers who claim every reviewed component to be the “best thing yet”
- I am in general skeptical of new technology that is said to be “as good as, or better than” proven and well-regarded existing technology as those new products are too often a “flash in the pan” |
Hey Clearthink, one person, who is a noted troll on certain topics called me a troll. He did that after I embarrassed him by showing that he does not understand the fundamentals of the technology underlying the product he makes and sells, AND also embarrassing him by showing that his frequent claim of having introduced that technology to audio was also not correct. If that makes me a troll then a wear the title proudly.
I don't think you want to know what people call you. It's not polite. |
How could I be embarrassed by your stupidity. Just another SFT. I don’t even sell the products we were discussing. And stop stalking me, pinhead. |
And funny enough, someone else was triggered enough to think I was talking about them. I guess they are also insecure about the validity of what they post here? |
The thing I find most annoying here is the arrogance of some members.
Especially when comparing DIY products against companies’ products who invest so much into developing and improving their product, and are continually doing so.
And reviewers? Surely they have not been fooled, as you so blatantly accuse others of being.
I have no doubt some DIY cables are indeed very good value.
However, when I spend money, I’m looking for better than most of these can provide.
---------------------------
Sounds fair enough this, like you most people believes what those colored catalogs or salesmen says.
The worst ic I`ve ever heard was diy`ed absolutely by the book, massive copper in cotton. Even dipped in linseed-oil after a famous danish reciepe. But it screamed, and the owner did not allow me to do an autopsy on it so I`m still wondering why.
But on the other hand, the best ic I`ve ever heard was made from a dual lenght of tv coax fom vivanco. So you never know.
Most of my audiophile friends has been doing their own stuff for years. Wery skilled guys, legends in audio-circles, with systems which far surpasses anything you can buy. This is one side of diy`ing, the other is the amateurs. But even amateurs can hit the nail sometimes.
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No, it’s because you’ve been stalking and trolling me all day, joyboy. |
The humble Acrolink 4030 power cable from breaker to socket, and from socket to device does it for me.
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None of you have any experience with solid core pc`s?
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None of you have any experience with solid core pc`s?
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jagjag... Acrolink 4030 power cable from breaker to socket, and from socket to device does it for me. That cable doesn't appear to be rated or intended for in-wall use. Do you know otherwise?
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You do not want to use solid core, go with variable Awg multi-stranded copper or hybrid cable with cotton cloth or other low dialectic wrapping plus insulation and EMI/RFI copper surround and quality ends of silver or rhodium. Try for 7-10 Awg. total for your cable needs. |
Anything but a single solid core will reduce the amps performance |
Given the lack of any consensus on best, one I think can assume there is no best, but perhaps best for a given situation, or best to suit a preference whatever that may be. Unfairlane, can you explain your reasoning for why only single core would not reduce an amps performance? Some things to keep in mind: - Transformers in most amplifiers are of fairly low bandwidth
- Many designers use inductive chokes to smooth the delivery of current to the capacitor bank (further reduces bandwidth)
- Stranded wire will exhibit less high frequency loss
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From a reader:
"
Unfairlane, can you explain your reasoning for why only single core would not reduce an amps performance? "
Yeah, years of experience |
Btw, I hope your "high frequense loss" is meant as a joke |
I’m not as savvy as some here about electricity (such as atdavid) but a few things. One, a reviewer once suggested that you can often improve by defeating the ground of any power cord. In other words, use one of those cheater plugs or yank out the ground prong. It works, I can testify I’ve compared many times with different components -- and in different houses -- and the ground is usually dirty. Maybe there are other ways to "clean it up" but I don’t know. (Although yes, you are taking a chance with shocks, but so far I’ve never gotten one)
The other thing is a question -- how can a power cord even constructed of pure copper or whatever, improve your sound when all the wiring in your wall is just ’average copper’? I know the cords can improve, I just don’t get how that could work. It makes some sense to me if you start with a power regenerator such as a PS Audio
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zug... you can often improve by
defeating the ground of any power cord. In other words, use one of those
cheater plugs or yank out the ground prong. It works ... yes, you are taking a chance
with shocks ... Defeating a power cord ground can be a useful diagnostic tool to troubleshoot ground loops, but it's not a solution. If your system sounds better with the ground defeated, the solution is to get all the grounds at the same potential.
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Can someone please explain the true manufacturing/labor cost for cables that cost in excess of 40k. I cant fathom anything above 5k never mind over 40k for cable measuring a justified audible sound benefit? Someone please help as I am trying to determine the mesurable facts behind what things really cost to build at that $$.$$$ level and what the "Real" dollars to ear percentage is?
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bluemartini,
What $40K power cable are you asking about? FWIW, you really resemble a troll. |
Not to worry, bluemartini...your question has merit. Disregard those with a limited vocabulary and the grammatic inability to intelligently participate in the discussion. Instead, they just call you a troll.
I'm really getting tired of that useless word being used so often on this forum.
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Give me a T. Give me an R. Give me an O... |
@ dynaquest4Those pitiful remarks merely represent there inability to simply answer the questions "Smoke N Mirrors". Shame, It appears I struck a nerve! |
Who in the right mind would spend $40,000 (forty thousand american dollars) on a power cord?
Let's answer this question first, then the rest of your question |
@thynameRead it an weep: Siltech's Emperor Crown, part of Siltech's Signature series, uses silver and gold metallurgy to lower audio distortion, and is arguably the most expensive cable on the market costing $39,000 for a 2m pair. |
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