The Truth About Power Cords and there "Real" Price to Performance

You often hear people claim that as soon as a new cable was swapped the difference was "Immediately recognized", "Not at all subtle", "Could hear things never heard before" and "Transformed their system". So obviously they would have absolutely no problems picking between the two.............Right?

But the thing is I have never seen any reliable proof where someone can pick one over the other much over 50% when blinded. Going by the post here you would think that at least one superlistener can easily differentiate the cables at least 85% of the time in a blind listening test (and probably in a minute). Does anyone know of a reliable scientific test results where anyone could reliably tell the difference between anything costing over $50 (and I am not talking about using the throw away interconnects that come with lo-fi receivers or ultra thin gauge wires).

Here is your chance guys. Get some reliable witnesses and do a scientific blinded test. Show how you can instantly hear the slightest change in your cables. Then post it on all of the forums that it can be done. You will finally put to rest the countless arguments on this subject and prove to the world that expensive cables are better.  You would be famous!

I have no doubt you can hear differences from the extreme low end cables or thin zip cord vs. one costing $50+. I did my own blinded test with my friends hitting the A/B button with a DIY interconnect and the throw away Chinese interconnect. I could hear a difference and so could could my friends at least 85% of the time.

My point was I can not find any posts on the internet where someone could reliably differentiate between a $100 cable and a $1000-$10,000+ one (and that is what this post was originally about). You would think at one of the large audio conventions some high end company with their uber expensive cables would have some superlistener who could show the world there is a difference. Why don’t they do that?

Cleeds

I’ve participated in a few scientifically controlled listening tests. The trials were conducted by real researchers, not self-appointed audio forum experts. They were tedious - something the organizers cautioned about at the start of the undertaking - and it explains why not all of the subjects who started the test were willing to complete them. Proper, scientifically-controlled listening tests are a time-consuming, laborious undertaking for pretty much everyone involved. Those who claim such tests are simple, fun and easy to conduct have obviously never been responsible for any such test.

Care to share the results of the test?

There is too much scientific and controlled double blind study talk here (and I am a scientist).  This should be simple.   Show me some validated examples where someone can reliably pick between 2 cables costing over $50 (blinded, when someone else changes them) and they didn't know which one was playing.

Thats all.  Double blind, single blind, AB, ABX, Good change, bad change, Anything!  It could even be on their personal system in their home.   And to make it easy lets say they can notice a difference  over 85% of the time for 10 tries.  Not 2 out of 3.   And not barely over 50% for 10.
There should be dozens if not thousands of these examples on the internet.  How about at least one?  It should be easy to find. All of the people who invested big bucks on their Uber-expensive bragging rights cables should be referencing it all of the time. 

For some reason I can not find ANY examples.

I was just being nice.......I guess Randi was being nice too. If I had a million dollars on the line it would be 99%.
Edit:  just realized you cant get to 85% correct in ten tries!  My bad.

Blumartini

I have to say that is a tough one! A blind test 10 times to see what percentage would be that can determine one cable from the other at the above the $50.00 mark? Is your point that $50.00 plus cable will be a negligible or not even at best to not distinguishable by 50% of the listeners?

Am not a cable denier when it comes to ultracheap cables (of any type) and I gave an arbitrary $50 cutoff as a guide to what I think ultracheap is. If someone else’s definition is $100-200 then I won’t argue about it. But if you think your system needs $1000+ cables for it to sound good forget about it! I did my own blind tests comparing a throw away interconnect you get for free with my first DIY interconnect. Had a friend toggle between the two and I could hear a subtle difference. They could too. Then I later tried other more expensive commercial and DIY designs and I thought I could hear a difference at first, but when someone else switched them and I didn’t know which I was listening too and I was just guessing. So I do believe there is a line you cross where you get an audible difference but that line is only on the extreme low end.

But my personal experiences are just anecdotal. Someone will always say my system isn’t revealing enough or I didn’t know what to listen for (or I am just ignorant). So that is why I keep asking.........why can’t find I any reliable sources on the internet where someone can repeatedly tell a difference when listening blinded? Or why can’t the people who claim a cable "instantly transformed their system" do the same test, do it blinded with someone else switching it, and tell us about it? This should have been proven long ago.

So it appears there is no way to set up a "scientific" test test that will make everyone happy audiophiles will be debating this for the rest of time.............
But what about doing something simpler? Just prove to yourself which cable is best for your system (blinded). Have a friend swap the cables for you and you listen and decide what the differences are. If there is an audible change it should be obvious without you having to look at your friends face to try and cheat and get a clue. It doesn’t even have to give a statistically significant outcome. If you tend to like one over the other that is the cable to use.

This test would be best if you have some different demo cables to pick from. After you already spent big bucks on a cable it will be more risky. Its not fun to find out you like a cheaper cable but like everyone said cables are system dependent. There is no reason a cheaper cable might not sound better. Also, this test will not prove anything to others, It will just give you more confidence that you picked the best cable for your system. Regardless of cost, how fancy and thick it looks, or biased audio reviews.

One thing to remember about power cords is that they only have to transmit one frequency (60 Hz).  Everything else is noise.    Many manufacturers have descriptions of their power cords that sound like what you need with interconnects and speaker cables for audio.    That just makes me laugh.

Mitch2-

One of the manufacturers who posts here, has said Romex would actually make a high performing power cord but it would not meet electrical codes for that purpose.

We talked about this some in the Romex to your Amp thread. here is what I posted there. It still applies here.

Electronics and power cords do not need to be UL listed. Certification is an optional process that costs $5,000-15,000 of dollars per model and is only good for 5 years. The only reason large manufacturers do this is because many retailers and contracts specify certified products only. Clearly very few (if any) boutique power cables and audio components are certified.
There is nothing wrong or illegal about solid core power cables.

Audiozenoligy
That is not true. If all they did was transmit 60Hz, then linear power supplies would not work. There is considerably energy above 60Hz.
The limitation in frequency response will be the transformer primarily.

In America all of the power grid is generated at 60 Hz. That included the 120 Volt line at your house to the ultra high voltages in the long distance transmission lines. But it all has to be at exactly 60 Hz or power gets wasted and bad things happen.
Are you mistaking Hz (cycles per second) for voltage? From the power plant voltages can be stepped up for transmission to thousands of volts (so you can use a smaller wire) but close to every house there is a step down transformer that converts it to 120 volts for home use. The only energy you get is 120 Volts at 60 Hz. That is what your components use and everything else should be considered noise.

Switching power transformers can be universal so you can plug them in to a 240 volt 50 Hz European power outlet and it still works. But it has nothing to do with the small amount of electrical interference at frequencies other than 50 Hz for Europe or 60 Hz in North America.

geoffait- To get a speaker to produce sound you need an oscillating current of some frequency and AC power is distributed as an oscillating current at 60 Hz. Do you ever wonder why a 60 Hz ground loop hum from the AC sounds exactly the same as a 60 Hz audio test tone?

AudioZenoligy- A 60 Hz signal starts out at zero volts, increases to positive voltage, decreases to 0 again then goes to negative voltages, then back to zero. This cycle happens 60 times a second (60 HZ). Linear power supplies draw on the positive swings and the negative swings. There is no power when it crosses zero. That is where you get the mistaken idea that there is any energy at 120 HZ. There isn’t. 120 Hz is just half of the 60 Hz full cycle.

Harmonics is still distortion and for power distribution and is not OK. Ever. And even with an audio signal going to your speakers harmonic distortion is only a minor component. While some distortion / harmonics can be considered OK (like the distortion in a tube amp) if your system has more than one percent you might want to consider upgrading to high fidelity.

It is ironic that many of the most vocal people in this thread do not seem to have a basic understanding of how power and audio signals work.  Further debating is pointless.

280% THD? That’s a lot of THD! 😩

Yes......that is why 70% of the AC power you put in is wasted by the AC/DC converter. But that does not mean you will have 280% distortion in your audio signal. The 33% converted into clean DC power that makes it out is what is used in the audio circuit.

It is strange dynaquest4 how some people want to show their lack of knowledge. I guess I am just here to help them .. probably would have been smart for them to find out how I spent a good part of my career. Oh well.

https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/technical-articles/understanding-thd-total-harmonic-distortion-in-p...

Read this article again. It proves you still have it totally wrong about THD.

Figure 1 shows a 60 Hz sine wave under a resistive load. The voltage swings from positive to negative and the current (i ac) tracks it. This has a power factor of one. That means you don’t waste any power. 100% of the power you put in can be used for "work". There is also no noise / harmonics being fed back to the grid so it won’t pollute the power grid with noise.
Figure 6 shows how a linear power supply works. It is a non-linear load. The 60 Hz voltage still goes up and down but the current  (i ac) is drawn mostly at the peaks. This distorts the current and generates harmonics that are fed back into the grid (back to the plug).

Figure 7 Harmonics of current flowing into a linear power supply shows what the power looks like flowing in to the AC/DC converter. The harmonics you see were not in the original clean 60 Hz power supply but they were generated by the AC/DC converter and fed back to the grid polluting it. This caused a lot of distortion in the current and causes 280% THD. But (again) everything other than the 60 Hz signal is considered distortion and is not used for any work. The power factor for this AC/DC converter is only 0.33 showing the harmonics are just wasted power. Approximately 70% of the power you feed in is wasted and gets sent back to the grid as harmonics polluting the rest of your (and your neighbors) power.

If you have too many non linear loads on a grid this distortion can be a big problem to other electronics (look it up). One thing they can do is make transformers buzz and overheat. This distortion is what you want to filter out by using a power cord. Or even better a power conditioner that removes the harmonics and feeds your system a clean 60 Hz sine wave.

JerryBJI know exactly what you mean. The cables I've bought in the last year are hopefully my last, with retirement a wee way away, but certainly a factor. The Audience Au24SX are certainly my end interconnects. My ATC SCM19v2 are my 'end game' speakers.

Top quality stuff.   Don't let the media / marketing shills or the mega rich (who want to feel special) try and convince you anything is lacking.  If you are happy with them enjoy!
This is what price to performance in audio boils down to.  Marketers that want to sell a dream at outrageous prices.   And the people with more money than brains that want to make you feel humble and try and justify their purchase.