The Truth About Power Cords and there "Real" Price to Performance

Compared to the transformer itself, diode, etc. it has not much effect inline electrically. Other issues at hand perhaps, but actual conduction of electricity not so much. Many high end power cords are effectively 12awg or less.

A large gauge power cord does not change what's in the wall between the panel and your outlet, so if not upgraded large grade on line/neutral does not do a lot.


I think your arguments for solid core are just conjecture. I don't think there is any good engineering or listening to back that up.

They both do exactly the same thing on the same circuit.  I don't think you have thought this through. Of course they have the same importance.

Good plugs are off course what everything relies on, but the male plug at the end of a pc is not where I would put my money.The female walloutlet is the one that might makes the difference.

I have rarely seen audiophiles with anything better than 12 awg Romex dedicated line or not.

Can't say you want low loss high frequency dielectrics in one sentence and then low frequency wire in the next. One would almost think people are just guessing and speaking in conjecture.

And if Romex is great, it is almost like OFC, single crystal, OCC, silver, etc. does not matter.

delkal,

That is not true. If all they did was transmit 60Hz, then linear power supplies would not work. There is considerably energy above 60Hz.

The limitation in frequency response will be the transformer primarily.

delkal,

You are confusing frequency of generation with frequency of power draw. Linear power supplies may draw power 120 times per second (rectified), but the bandwidth of what they draw is not at all limited to 60Hz but has harmonics well beyond 60Hz. If that was not the case, linear power supplies would not work. It is akin to a 60Hz square wave not being only 60Hz, but having significant energy at harmonics of 60Hz. Is it noise? ... matter of definition I guess, but it is certainly an artifact of a linear power supply. The power draw for a linear power supply will always have significant harmonic content.

A switch mode power supply on the other hand may draw power at  something approaching 60Hz, at least many attempt to.

Delkal,


I have been respectful to you but your attitude is poor and your knowledge worse.


The AC supply is a voltage at 60Hz. However the frequency of the power draw, i.e. current, is a factor of the load effectively modulating the line frequency. Hence you have current draw both at 60hz, and at many harmonics of 60hz, primarily odd harmonics the spectrum dependent on the load.


I will emphasize again a linear supply cannot work if it draws power only at 60hz and you are confusing supply voltage frequency with power draw frequency. The lack of knowledge is not mine, it is yours. (Note I said that it draws power 120 times per second not that is the primary spectrum of the energy draw). 


Short of a resistive load just about nothing on the AC line has low distortion. 


It would not be unusual for a linear power supply in a piece of audio equipment to be running 30% or more harmonic distortion on the AC input current. Only way to fix that is to add resistance or inductance to the AC input lines.

Clearthink,

No, I am not confused, disoriented, or misinformed, but I do find your post rude, ignorant and disrespectful and it shows you lack knowledge in this area. I really do not know why you chose to post your disrespectful, inaccurate, and inflammatory post.

The AC supply VOLTAGE is 60Hz. Current draw is a function of the load, and is not limited to the 60Hz supply voltage. If you believe that is the case, then I do not think you are qualified to make a comment on this topic. Delkal is not correct. THD (Total harmonic distortion) is a critical measurement for AC products and is the ratio of power draw harmonics (above 50 or 60Hz) related to the 50 or 60Hz primary frequency. AGAIN, it is not unusual for a linear power supply to have a THD of 30% (or more). This is not debatable. It is the case. It is well known. It is easily measured. That 30% THD means there are higher frequencies on the power line.

Is that "noise"? When looked at only from a standpoint of AC line harmonics, yes. Does that mean it is bad? Debatable. There is a reason why some amplifiers don’t recommend power filters, which would reduce harmonic distortion on the AC line.

Here is a thought exercise for you and Delkal. Can a battery only supply power at DC or will the frequency of the power draw be exclusively a factor of the load?

It is strange dynaquest4 how some people want to show their lack of knowledge. I guess I am just here to help them ..  probably would have been smart for them to find out how I spent a good part of my career. Oh well.

https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/technical-articles/understanding-thd-total-harmonic-distortion-in-p...


https://www.ijser.org/paper/Analysis-of-power-Quality-in-power-Supplies.html

Strange, the person who wrote this does not appear to have any issues with the command of the English language .... well unless they did not write it?

clearthink
1,014 posts01-19-2017 3:12pm

Again,with the kind permission of Bo, the group and the moderators kindly please allow me to expand a bit on TruFi, what it means for the world of music reproduction systems and how it will change the industry.

Kindly please remember that I am not not a spokesman for TruFi. I am a client of Bo’s and it has been proven to me and it has been proven to everyone that the world of music reproduction systems is shifting from one of widdley-tiddley voodoo to TruFi, which is recognized by all who hear it.

Bo does shootouts. Using properties identified under TruFi and measurement techniques, Bo can demonstrate a diversity in sound that no one else can deliver. He can do this because he alone has developed TruFi, the only means so far developed to allow music reproduction systems to show the true diversity of sound that only TruFi can deliver, so far.

Until now music reproduction systems have been built using information from paid for advertising and "reviews" and trial and error approach. This is why all music reproduction systems other than TruFi are 1D or 2D while TruFi systems are 3D. This has been proven many many times, so there’s no need to debate that here.

If you are going to be arrogant, pedantic, and rude, you better invest the time first to ensure you are not erroneous, ignorant, and misguided.


The voltage of the AC supply is a 60Hz sine wave. Your attempt at pedantictry is but a strawman. One has to wonder why you have to resort to a strawman as opposed to addressing the rest of my argument.Clearthink, would you like to try again, to show that you do not understand that the bandwidth of the power delivery to a linear power supply includes harmonics (typically odd harmonics), well above the primary frequency of the AC supply, i.e. there will be significant harmonics at 180, 300, 420, 540, etc. .... and that the sum of those harmonics will be significant, i.e. 30% of the primary is not unusual.


Further, would you like to illustrate how the typical linear power supply would operate if the only frequency of power delivery was 60Hz? I can wait. Why don't you draw it for yourself. Hint, if the only frequency of power delivery is 60Hz, then the current waveform must also be a nice perfect 60Hz sine wave.

Simple Question delkal: What is the frequency of the power drawn by a battery? Is it DC or is it entirely load dependent? Keep in mind there are 0 frequencies in a Battery. It’s all DC.

"Voltage" is only the potential to do work. The voltage is oscillating in amplitude at 60Hz. But unless you draw current there is no "power".

Second Simple Question: What will happen if a basic linear power supply draws power with a frequency spectrum of only 60Hz or 50Hz? .... hint, the answer is it will not work and the output will just be a 120Hz half sine wave.

You do realize when you admit that THD on an AC line is an actual thing that a) You are admitting power is NOT delivered at only 60Hz, AND b) That power not being delivered at only 60Hz is ESSENTIAL for operation of a linear power voltage.

There is so much fundamentally wrong with what you have written that I don’t even know where to start. Let’s start with .... "But (again) everything other than the 60 Hz signal is considered distortion and is not used for any work."... This is not remotely right. The supplied AC is just a 60Hz oscillating voltage. Without current, nothing happens and that is defined by the load (or interaction of the supply and the load). Hence, for a linear power supply to work, the frequency spectrum of the delivered power, ---- which is what is required to make it work ---- cannot be only the line frequency.

You are also confusing, at some or many levels, the impacts of THD and power factor. THD is not an indication of how much real power is delivered. Power Factor indicates this. I can create a load with a very low THD, but poor power factor. I only need to phase-shift the current.

Figure 7 Harmonics of current flowing into a linear power supply shows what the power looks like flowing in to the AC/DC converter. The harmonics you see were not in the original clean 60 Hz power supply but they were generated by the AC/DC converter and fed back to the grid polluting it. This caused a lot of distortion in the current and causes 280% THD. But (again) everything other than the 60 Hz signal is considered distortion and is not used for any work. The power factor for this AC/DC converter is only 0.33 showing the harmonics are just wasted power. Approximately 70% of the power you feed in is wasted and gets sent back to the grid as harmonics polluting the rest of your (and your neighbors) power.

dynaquest4414 posts12-16-2019 2:07pmaudiozen: Talking or debating with clearthink is like talking politics with the other party. No one changes their mind but everybody ends up pissed off. Clearthink clearly thinks there is always only one answer...his. To debate with him (or Geoff) is pointless.

Pretty much nailed it dynaquest4.
Some people confuse ignorance with enlightenment. I wish it was not as common as it is.

You're : you are
Your: possessive

dynaquest4,


I had quickly come to one of those conclusions and I am rapidly reaching the other. This had started out respectfully with delkal, but unfortunately someone felt a need to "puff their chest". I don’t have any illusions they understand the topic or even care to. It is simply attention seeking. It is not an isolated event.


I do find it a bit weird they insist on repeatedly showing their ignorance about basic EE, even illustrating a knowledge level lower than a first year technician let alone a first year EE student. Oh well, I am only providing the space, they are shouting at the top of their lungs.

NO,
That is not what it means at all. Poor power factor does not indicate that power was wasted. It simply means that Voltage and Current are not in phase. The only thing "wasted" is generation capability and distribution capability, and a bit higher resistive losses due to higher peak currents and hence higher RMS currents for a given power delivery resulting in higher losses in the distribution system (i.e. wires).

delkal59 posts12-16-2019 3:50pm

280% THD? That’s a lot of THD! 😩

Yes......that is why 70% of the AC power you put in is wasted by the AC/DC converter. But that does not mean you will have 280% distortion in your audio signal. The 33% converted into clean DC power that makes it out is what is used in the audio circuit.

Show me a cable with bad professional reviews ...

And funny enough, someone else was triggered enough to think I was talking about them. I guess they are also insecure about the validity of what they post here? 

Thanks for the comic interlude Clearthink. Are you finished stalking for the day, or should I expect more angry posts? I am putting together a compendium of your rants and just want to know how much time I should allocate today???

Hey Clearthink, one person, who is a noted troll on certain topics called me a troll. He did that after I embarrassed him by showing that he does not understand the fundamentals of the technology underlying the product he makes and sells, AND also embarrassing him by showing that his frequent claim of having introduced that technology to audio was also not correct. If that makes me a troll then a wear the title proudly.


I don't think you want to know what people call you. It's not polite.

Given the lack of any consensus on best, one I think can assume there is no best, but perhaps best for a given situation, or best to suit a preference whatever that may be.


Unfairlane, can you explain your reasoning for why only single core would not reduce an amps performance? Some things to keep in mind:

• Transformers in most amplifiers are of fairly low bandwidth
• Many designers use inductive chokes to smooth the delivery of current to the capacitor bank (further reduces bandwidth)
• Stranded wire will exhibit less high frequency loss