Anybody out there able to give me some feed back on the below listed cables price to performance?
Odin 2 Power Cords 1.25 Meters 16,999.99
Shunyata Research Sigma NR 1.75 Meter $3000.00
WireWorld Platinum Electra 7 1.5 Meter $2,350.00
Snake River Audio Signature Cottonmouth 1.0 Meter $1,875.00
NRG Custom Cables The 5 Power Cord 1.5 Meter $300.00
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Ok so let me kick this off since we are off to a interesting start! This is less than a 2-minute read, and I promise you it's worth it. A power cord has two jobs – get electrical current from your outlet to your gear (using conductors and plugs), and keep the signal as clean as possible (using shielding). You could distill it further and simply say, despite what some companies may tell you in their marketing, a power cord conducts electricity. And when it comes to conducting electricity, there are two simple and steadfast rules: 1. Larger Gauge = Lower Voltage Drop and Resistance (more/better current flow – the garden hose vs. fire hose analogy) & 2. More Insulation/Shielding = Less Interference (a cleaner signal) I believe that a well designed cable simply maintains more of the original signal, allowing the sound of your gear to come through better. Now the real question is what company do you believe really gives the best value to performance?
I believe in Math and Science and what I hear not marketing!
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Hi There geoffkait, Don’t know that anyone said that there was a line. Why stop at $35000.00? I had the opportunity to audition a $75,000.00 TROY ELITE NG ground conditioning unit. https://tripointaudio.us/tripoint-products Guess the real question is does the dollar amount spent = "Price for Performance" and why you think it does in your system? |
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Hey dayveyf1,
Please remind me what system you used the cords with? |
Hi millercarbon,
Thanks for jumping right into the meat of the matter and shedding some light on the subject! To clarify, this is not new to me but I like many others out there are not like geoffkait or I hope not at least in this regard lol. The purpose of the thread is more for awareness vs marketing for those not wanting 3 basement levels of bad accidents. Sorry man but that was hilarious!!!
I am sure that most people reading this thread will want to hear more about The Master Coupler power cable. Can you share its characteristics from your experiences with us,
Thanks!
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millercarbon, That was nicley done.! Thank you for sharing that on this thread. I think for all of those out ther who have dumped good money into bad or not so great power cords and cables by purchasing based on a review someone read or marketing hype.
Bravo |
Jtfc,
Interesting you bring this up! I have someone I know that liv9in Hawaii and that's how they get their power. He opted for a PS Audio Power Regenerater. I am waiting to hear back from him to better answer how its going for him |
Greetings All, After reading Jay Luong of Audio Bacon;s Review of 27 Best Audiophile Power Cords I must say that I was Impressed! Jay spent several months reviewing each and everyone of them in depth. I must say this guy is the "Navy Seal of Reviewers" !!! I thought it would be exciting if he would join us so I invited him along with all the companies he reviewed to join us. I dont know if they all will but I am positive most wouldn’t want to chime in :) The Invite List: Jay Luong Author of Audio Bacon Website Atlas Cables Audioquest Furutech Gutwire High Fidelity Cables Kimber Kable NRG Custom Cables Morrow Audio Neotech Nordost Requisite Audio Sablon Audio Snake River Straight Wire Triode Wire Labs TriPoint Audio Verastarr
Vovox WireWorld
Hope you can make it! Best, BluMartini |
Wow, this has been an excellent thread thus far. I never know where things are headed when I post a thread, its like being blindfolded on a roller coaster ride! I am thankful to all of you who have contributed as we all can always learn no matter how large or small your system is or how much you know or think you know there is always someone who knows more than you! Now as far as the " Kamikaze’s" out there dive bombing with snide remarks and negativity please be more respectful to the group some of us are here to learn. Thanks again to all. Cheers! |
@jtcf In response to your question on gas powered generators. Aloha BluMartini, I’ve done some A/B comparisons with the p15(A)and my 15 year old Shunyata(B) conditioner. The P15 showed 4% THD and a real choppy sign wave coming in and .3 THD going out with A very clean sign wave. On Kauai we have a combination of Solar power and Diesel generated power. Power supply can be very inconsistent at times so surge protection is mandatory. I have a "whole house surge protecter" on my incoming 200amp line with a dedicated 20amp line to my audio room for audio equipment.
On my amps there seemed to be little or no difference.
On my preamp there was an obvious difference. The highs were more extended cymbals were faster and sounded more real with more air around them. Side to side sound stage got wider probably due to better definition though out the recorded frequency.
But, the best improvement is in the phono stage and CD player. The phono stage (and preamp)plugged into the P15 made an obvious and very positive difference. Soundstage got even wider but also front to back soundstage was way more pronounced. Bass got very tight and was easily identified, verses being somewhat muddy and vague. Drum attacks were more startling. CD player was similar although the depth wasn’t as prevalent. I generally don’t sit and listen to CD’s. I could go on but I got to go to work. Needless to say it was a positive addition to my system. Dave |
Greetings All,
I believe that each of you will agree that this idea of segregating systems at there prospective price points will fuel more fun allowing all to better zero in on your personal systems needs.
I have spoken to various manufactures that would also like to participate as longs a we can be respectful and learn from one another, "Yes" even manufactures need to keep the ear to the ground to better understand the challenges in the respective market place. I believe it will be interesting what we can learn from each other, them from us and us from them.
Just a Novel Thought.
Cheers! |
@atdavid
@swanlee5979
To your point, this thread was never intended to turn into a "Audio Snob Session"!!!
So what I am thinking of doing is separating the groups so everyone can speak to the current system without insulting "Porsche or Toyota" "Cadillac or Chevy" at the end of the day we are all Audio Owners that Love Audio.
FYI to all! I have invited manufactures to chime in and some politely responded that this has never worked out for them for these reasons along with the Kamikaze Nasty Remarks! So in the meantime if this happens I ask that all of you to please be respectful or I will "Hyphenate" you idiotic responses!
I will need your help to do this so please be respectful and courteous :)
My thoughts:
I will start different threads based on your current system dollar amount to keep the cross talk in order.
Best Price To Performance Power Cords for Systems that range 10K-20K
Best Price To Performance Power Cords for Systems that range 30K-40K
Best Price To Performance Power Cords for Systems that range 50K-60K
Best Price To Performance Power Cords for Systems that range 60K-80K
Best Price To Performance Power Cords for Systems that range 90K +
Hope it works!
Cheers!
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@atdavidGood point! lol, I did break down the price point. GK is welcome as long as he plays nice:) |
@turnbowmI don’t believe I called anyone an idiot for having a difference of opinion, quite the contrary! I am referring to those who are "Disruptive" jumping in looking for a fight, insulting others opinions or questions. |
Mike Morrow asked me to post this. He was one of the 27 cord companies Jay Revied.
Regarding power cords, we at Morrow Audio also do not fully understand howthe last few feet from the wall outlet to the equipment can make a difference. But, it is a real thing that can be heard. My personal noticeis that most power cords that come with equipment are made of poor quality copper, so replacing with a good qualitycord will make a difference. There is also a lowering of the impedance when using higher gauges, providing a betterpower transfer to the equipment. The connectors are likewise of much higher quality than the equipment manufacturerprovides, again providing better contact and power transfer. RFI can likewise influence, this lessened with propertwisting of the wires like in our power cords. All these things add up, providing the sonic changes and improvementsthat one hears. - Mike Morrow
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To most of your points, I often wondered why most power cord/cable companies out there don't put there money where their mouth is? Most all of us cant walk up to a showroom with your amp or components and audition cables the way you can with speakers amps etc. So whats the next best thing? I found 1 yes only 1 so far that puts his money where his mouth in and backs now with a 60 day money back customer satisfaction guarantee! NRG Custom Cables is one of the 27 Audiophile power cord company Jay Luong reviewed. - Price: $328 USD including worldwide shipping
- Conductor: 4N OFC, 4.5 AWG hot & neutral, 7.5 AWG ground
- Dielectric: Teflon
- Shielding: Grounded copper sleeve/shield
NRG Custom Cables’s motto is: “Design by Math & Science – Not by Marketing.” Interesting.
I loved the idea so much I personally am going to try them on 3 different amps and A Shunyata Denali 6000T power conditioner as well as direct to the wall!
The amps are all different amp 1. is Class A/B Amp. 2. Is Class A/B//Tube Hybrid and Amp. 3. Will be all Tubes! The test might be after thanksgiving as I will be traveling but I thing it will be worth it.
Love it when a manufacture believes in his product so much they Guarantee it or your money back!
Cheers |
To All,
This topic most certainly catches the eyes of many who have already gone down this road and many that have not, I myself wondered and asked why so mush for what and I still haven't heard a specific clear answer. What I can say is that
Jay Luong's
27 Best Audiophile Power Cables has been one of the best if not the best attempt to put things somewhat into perspective in regards to the manufactures, models, and prices as well as what to expect at there particular value proposition.
Still today this topic seems to be unsolved I as well many of us still believe that much of whats out there is still marketing hype which again us as the consumers takes the risk of the product not performing and ultimately ending up in the guinea pig walk of shame closest based on many of the above comments in this thread. That being said I invited most all of the manufactures Jay
Luong
reviewed and even a few he did not to come to the table to set things straight to only get the age ole my cable is the best as a response along with some build recipes and or formula and why they are in there opinion.
Conclusion and Novel Thought for All:
I would think that by now it would be in everyone/s best interest if the manufacture would lay out what model should best coexist with what brand sound signature and what the consumer should expect to hear along with a 30 day total satisfaction guarantee as does only a few do out there.
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In that case, technical or scientific data could be fully employed to guide purchasing decisions - rather than vague claims by the cable manufacturers to justify their outrageous prices
+2 |
@geoffkait
Lol Man, your off the chain! |
@prof
Just for the record, I don't believe in snake oil, magic crystals, or pixie dust! But it does seem a lot do. What I see is the same ole same ole and nothing is changing. Had it not been for math and science we would still be in a cave.
Maybe Jay didn't have an exact science but it was most definitely a good starting point to something different than doing the same thing over and over and getting the same results, that is called "insanity". So other than magic crystals do you have anything you can bring to the table other than observation of the obvious? |
@prof
I thank you for your input and for stepping up to the plate in this oscilloscope v.s. the ear discussion. There is much confusion out there when it comes to audio science, marketing and the ear and what you are saying about the mind playing tricks is true for alot of consumers. For the record, I do believe in science but at the end of the day it does have to process in the point of origination "the brain" and ears and thats why cable companies sell cables. At the end of the day it's the chicken or the egg theory. My hope for the thread was to somehow try to come up with a baseline that would bring the end user closer to their sound expectation at a reasonable dollar to science and ear other and not Marketing magic Crystal B.S. that drives power cord cost from $300.00 to $$.$$$.$$. And yes, at the end of the day people do rely on their ears as the ultimate science.
Thanks for your contribution:)
Cheers |
@delkal I have to say that is a tough one! A blind test 10 times to see what percentage would be that can determine one cable from the other at the above the $50.00 mark? Is your point that $50.00 plus cable will be a negligible or not even at best to not distinguishable by 50% of the listeners? |
@glupson
Is it a selection of mahlman's posts from elsewhere?
Yes. |
@mahlman
Hey man, have you looked in the mirror lately?
"Malman,
Too funny and I love some of the trolling here. In the memory of "insearchofprat"
"Malman, do I look like I care what you think? 🙄 Your post is not only a drive-by shooting but it’s a hijacking. You can’t even stay on topic.
"Malman,
Blind testing is garlic and wooden stakes to Vampires.
"Malman,
By the way I found a cooker at Costco I think will work but I have a question. Should I use peanut or sunflower oil? I figure a light all natural oil will help the transients be much better and allow for a much more transparent sound signal.
"Malman,
" LMAO! Uh, no apparently you haven’t, or your auditory memory failed you miserably in those assessments.
"Malman,
You can tag along on theannual pilgrimage to Arkansas to pay your respects.
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@delkal
I by no means am knocking your claim, I just thought that you might be on to something. I have been in blind test group listening sessions were we have listen to each of our personal test tracks as a guide and played them over and over 3 times to see if each of us agreed on our overall assessment of the signature. |
Ok all,
Question? In your humble opinion, what is the best Power Cord and what do you like about them from prices that range:
$50-$100
$200-300
$400-500
$600-$1000 |
@ thynameI don't listen to those poor souls. Sad that they were not allowed to play with others subject to misbehavior. There negative cry for attention is the demonstration of the lack of. Carry on man, no body really is interested in their party of 1 antics lol. P.S. Alright I will admit that a few comments have cracked me totally up lmao:) |
@ boxer12Can you tell us what you had them counted to? Thanks for sharing your thoughts:) Cheers |
Does anyone have any experience with Cardas Clear Beyond Interconnect? |
@stringreen Thank you. Would you know or recommend anyone that can build a set for me? Cheers |
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Can someone please explain the true manufacturing/labor cost for cables that cost in excess of 40k. I cant fathom anything above 5k never mind over 40k for cable measuring a justified audible sound benefit? Someone please help as I am trying to determine the mesurable facts behind what things really cost to build at that $$.$$$ level and what the "Real" dollars to ear percentage is?
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@dynaquest4 I am not here to knock why or how people spend there money or get swallowed and swayed by ego and imagination created by marketing and flamboyant audio writers that play on words and illusions that play tricks on your mind. To each there own. |
@ dynaquest4Those pitiful remarks merely represent there inability to simply answer the questions "Smoke N Mirrors". Shame, It appears I struck a nerve! |
It's not about the money, it's about the "REAL" audible return for the $$$$$.$$. That is where I was going with the thread. |
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@thynameRead it an weep: Siltech's Emperor Crown, part of Siltech's Signature series, uses silver and gold metallurgy to lower audio distortion, and is arguably the most expensive cable on the market costing $39,000 for a 2m pair. |
Whitecamaoss made a good point and this is why most are tired of B.S. Reviews from paid or compensated reviews. So I was sent this conversation by a friend of mine.... This is a very interesting thread that just opened up ... It looks like this is now the new format that generations are asking for. It appears to me that most people are getting sick of the old school mentality as far as magazine reviews and now they want REAL WORLD users to give an opinion. I think manufacturers won’t know what to do if this is the new trend on the decade of the 2020s. The tables will turn as new generations are now in driver’s seat in many industries and they no longer want to read what is being written by older audiophiles. I have seen this trend occur not only with audio but also car industries where they are sick of reading motortrend magazine, etc. They want to see the guy that owns the Mclaren 720s talk about how fast it is and see him drive the hell out of it at the track. They want HIM to talk about headaches, issues, maintenance, etc and not the guys who write the magazines. Think about it, Amazon wiped out Toys R Us, Kmart, SEARS, etc, etc. Tons of retail stores are closing which includes: MACYS, JCPenney, LOWES, etc. and we don’t think this massive change is going to impact the way the audio industry rolls? Ok, then i will leave you with this thought: when you go out to a restaurant or you want to buy a product somewhere (whatever that may be), dont you go and read the reviews that ACTUAL users leave? i use amazon CONSTANTLY for everything in my house and i ALWAYS read what actual verified buyers are leaving as far as feedback because i dont care to read WHAT THE HELL a magazine said and i am sure you guys are doing the same thing too? Mark my words, this is just the beginning of what will happen in this decade. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/would-you-donate-a-dollar-to-have-these-members-review-a-prod... |
Going to give NRG Custom Cables The 5 power cord a try, I am hearing really good things about the company, Any comments out there? |
