All my amps right now are Class D. ICEpower in the living room, and NAD D 3020 in the bedroom.
I’ve had several audiophiles come to my home and not one has ever said "Oh, that sounds like Class D."
Having said this, if I could afford them AND had the room, I’d be tempted to switch for a pair of Ayre monoblocks or Conrad Johnson Premiere 12s and very little else.
I’m not religious about Class D. They sound great for me, low power, easy to hide, but if a lot of cash and the need to upgrade ever hits me, I could be persuaded.
The point: Good modern Class D amps just sound like really good amplifiers, with the usual speaker/source matching issues.
You don’t have to go that route, but it’s time we shrugged off the myths and descriptions of Class D that come right out of the 1980’s.
You are so yesterday.....he he. Check this link out.....no, they are not mosfets as Mouser has no category for them at present.....download the data sheet.....these are $5.50 each and anyone can buy them when they arrive in Nov. They also have higher current ones for $8 each due in Oct.
What so funny is that you only need a couple of these per channel to make multi-hundred watt amps. These are only slightly more expensive than the mosfets everyone is using now.
The revolution is happening. Get rid of those heavy boat anchors before they are worthless!
guidocorona I remember no more than one year ago you advocating that the day of class D would come once designers adopted Gallium Nitrite transistors switching at 1.5Mhz....
1graber2 E.g., “even”George has said he finds Class D acceptable at the 1.5 MHz switching speed. How much are those SE-1s?
What I said was G, they can’t yet because the mainstream manufacturers (Motorola, Hitachi, Fairchild STMicroelectronics Texas Instruments ect ect) haven’t started manufacturing them yet for maybe $2 each, because GAN is invented and made by a small (relative to the above) development company (EPC-Co) , they on sell the licence to major manufacturers to make them. (EPC-Co) also invented the power Mosfet in the 60’s which the major manufacturers use under licence from them to make. Yes Technics has the GAN probably direct from EPC in limited supply, and you can bet they’re not $2 each, hence the $30k price tag on the SE-R1, anlong with limited tooling costs.
I’ve always stated that the 1.5gHz switching frequency used in $30k Technics SE-R1 was a massive stepping stone in the right direction, instead of the 400-600mHz used today by others. Because at 1.5gHz the low order output filter can remove "almost" all the switching noise without any effects down to around 5khz into the audio band which happens with all other Class-D’s now.
As Cyril Hammer of Soulution amps also says, we need to get even higher, he’s at 5gHz I’ve always thought 3gHz is fine, and when I see that on the way with future technology, it’s time for me to start advertising my boat anchors.
@abasia good question, and one I have asked earlier when I was thinking the same thing ...
to to avoid some unnecessary quibbles, we probably should have established some parameters for Class D in terms of quality r/t: 1. Price of the class d amp, and 2: perhaps overall system cost, assuming some reasonable sense of equality (price, performance) b/w the main components in the system
Examples: 1. E.g., for the price of the Class D amp alone, at what Price point would the GENERAL price break be? b/w a good Class D and one that the unsatisfactory Class D amp. $1000 ? $2000? $3k? And so on and so forth. E.g., “even”George has said he finds Class D acceptable at the 1.5 MHz switching speed. How much are those SE-1s?
—> Same question for everyone else. There will be a variety of price points given,, reflecting individual tastes.
B/c right now both sides are making blanket statements about Class D. And both are wrong. But both are right. It’s the specifics guys. Cuz right now we are both just hitting our heads against the wall.
In the words of a prior college professor, “it’s the specifics stupid”.
I see threads like this "looking for the truth" started as a "reach out for confirmation" from owners who know their Class-D’s are not quite right, but can’t bring himself to go back to linear, almost like begging for forgiveness, for what they have done and everything will hopefully be fine."
Hello George, have you perhaps caught a sudden chill? I, like Erik and several others use our ears.... We need nor seek confirmation for the devices and the music we love. Let alone seek "forgiveness" for our anathema... Man, you do need an icepack on your brow today... Or would it be an ICEpower pack *Smiles!*
On the contrary, as mentioned so many times, I invite you to get "out of the house" just a bit.... The musical air is amazingly refreshing today... You might even catch a lovely class D breeze. To the contrary of the trite urban legends circulating in old and stuffy audiophilic houses, There are some class D amps that make wonderful music.... Provided one cares taking a good open minded listen to them. In addition to the ones that Erik and I already mentioned on other threads, I recommend a good audition to the newest Merrills Element 118, 116, and 114.
BTW, I remember no more than one year ago you advocating that the day of class D would come once designers adopted Gallium Nitrite transistors switching at 1.5Mhz.... But now that appears to be a moving target... As the new Merrills are using such technology, you are changing your dirge already.... And just to make sure you can lament for a few years more, while remaining a staunch paper-bound audiophile,your latest goal is a onetousand-fold Ghz range... Once that boundary is finally crossed, I am confident that you wil pine for a brand new 1K-fold switching frequency leap into the Terahertz range... Meantime, you will still be suffering from never-ending "Princess and the class D pea" syndrome, whilst pouring smilingly over that ever-reassuring old PDF by Martin collom from the 2008 munich Show, where the old trombone from HiFi Critic had not even noticed that he had already missed the train *Grins!
Many here know I replaced 2 Emerald Physics 100.2SEs with an Audio Alchemy DPA 1 HYBRID stereo amp, but at the time I was using a Hattor XLR passive pre that George pointed out was also a impedance mismatch. But when I replaced the Hattor with the Audio Alchemy DDP-1 DAC/Pre that the music came together in amazing ways (sonically neutral and 3D) . It was only AFTER listening to them that I was made aware of The Absolute Sound review in March of 2016, comparing them to the SOULution amp/pre. This combo revealed abilities in my Emerald Physics KCIIs, tht allowed me to eliminate my 2 SVS powered subs!
The AA combo MSRP is $4K. I am still writing on the external power supply
The new Primare I35 gets a glowing review in the latest Hi-Fi + mag, the reviewer asks if one needs a better amp than this, as it is that good, and he normally tests the big and expensive amps for living, but of course he is a professional reviewer for good, and maybe bad ;-)
Do you have any recommended class D amps at certain price points or maybe at what price point do class D amps start to be better than other amps at the same price range?
For example, NAD 368 is better than Marantz PM7005 at the 1k-800usd price point.
I mean, we can’t even get George to accept Class D even at its simplest face value! :)
I do accept it, but not in competition to hiend audio yet, they make great bass/upper bass amps so far.
And I’ve said it all along I’ll be the first to dump my stinking hot, heavy, inefficient, boat anchors. When they’ve got rid of their problem/s, that Technics with the $30k SE-R1 have semi addressed with their 1.5mHz switching speed power amp, 3 x times higher than what’s around at present, then the (switching noise) output filter can do it’s job properly without effecting the audio bands upper mids and highs that so many hear, and owners can't!.
I see threads like this "looking for the truth" started as a "reach out for confirmation" from owners who know their Class-D’s are not quite right, but can’t bring himself to go back to linear, almost like begging for forgiveness, for what they have done and everything will hopefully be fine.
So you heard Parasound and Devialet amps on Magnepans and did not like the Devialet.
That is 1 single sample of a specific Class D amplifier you did not like. Is that correct?
Maybe you didn't read through my other posts in their entirety, but no, I've heard many class D amps I didn't like, including but not limited to Devialet, NADs new M class, the Rogue hybrids, Bel Cantos, Audio Alchemy, Peachtree Novas and countless mobile audio amplifiers. I know I left off a few, but anyhow, the one trait they all shared was a sort of analytical (maybe "sterile" is a better description) presentation. For me, they just suck the soul out of music. One reason I no longer listen in my car - has a factory "premium" system powered by class D.
@phomchick what I mean is that the active speakers with D amperage are barely getting sold compared to non active speakers, because they still severely lag behind non active speakers in sales and use. (Except younger folks who find commercial all in one products satisfactory). Therefore, foretelling a utopic all in one Class D speaker in the audiophile community in the near future, IMO, is way way overly optimistic.
I mean, we can’t even get George to accept Class D even at its simplest face value! :)
There is no reason an active speaker cannot be an audiophile grade product. We are at the beginning of this technology. There is Dynaudio, Genelec, Kii, KEF and very few others.
I sat in the same seat as the presenter used to tune the $14k Kii system from, and listened to 2 known songs that I had with me, and I was outter there. To my senses it was like a surgical knife dissecting the music, that’s the only way I can describe it. The same happened at the Uno ZERO 1 XD demo.
But that will be more of a commercial product in the future than an audiophile product.... Severely limited in many respects. Sound. Precision. Pray. Musicality. Power. Nuance.
There is no reason an active speaker cannot be an audiophile grade product. We are at the beginning of this technology. There is Dynaudio, Genelec, Kii, KEF and very few others. I believe I saw an interview with Andrew Jones where he said ELAC is working on an active speaker, and the new PS Audio AN speakers will be partially active. Of course, the best Pro monitor speakers have been active units for almost 20 years. This technology will rapidly improve. And not only is there no reason that active speakers can’t be audiophile grade, they allow elimination of passive crossovers and the adoption of DSP crossovers which can provide much better sound -- offering solutions to driver equaliztion and speaker time alignment as well as room correction that you can’t get any other way. Not only will active speakers with DSP achieve audiophile quality, they will set the bar for the highest quality.
And my 2nd point? Well, there is no damn fun if the system and speaker do everything for you. Again, that is a commercial product, not an audiophile product. If DSP is going to do everything for you, then you don’t learn anything about how the sound waves and sound effects can be managed in your room with your own knowledge and know-how. Boring.
I can’t argue with that. I bought my last preamp in 1982, and my last amplifier in 1989. Since 1990 I have owned three DACs, but until recently the same pair of speakers over that span, and no exotic power cords or fancy speaker wire. (But I have bought a ton of music). If your enjoyment of this hobby comes from flipping equipment in search of synergy and nirvana, you probably won’t be that interested in active speakers. But if you are more interested in actually achieving synergistic audio nirvana, why not join the future and let the manufacturer do it right?
And to finish and anchor these musings in this thread, Class D amplifiers are one of the main technologies that are enabling the next generation of active speakers.
Loved your “Lumpy” description above as that eally rings true in my experience. Well said. I am only commenting on bass and not the overall sound of Class D vs conventional SS amps.
I suspect one reason for the vastly different takes on Class D is a matter of physiology. People's HF perception vary dramatically, and something irritating to one person may not register much for another. This is particularly true w.r.t. gender - women tend to have superior HF acuity, and my wife can spot treble issues almost instantly. Faults that take me a while to pick up will drive her out of the room in a heartbeat. (She can't pick up on bass notes for her life though!)
I haven't heard much of the latest SOTA Class D, but I did get a brief listen to the Devialet 250 recently. I thought it sounded quite good, smooth and full with killer bass. There's something about the way Class D does low frequencies - not only the power, control and definition of bass notes, but also the evenness of response. Traditional amps sound lumpy by comparison, though this might be more a function of the switching supply than the actual amplification circuit. (Chord amps are Class AB but with a switching supply, and have a similar evenness of response.) I still have the nagging feeling that the Devialet doesn't quite have the air, openness and dimensionality of the best linear amps, but I'd need a more careful audition to ascertain that.
In any case, I'm going to seek out some Class D for review - I have my eyes on an nCore implementation, and will look for something based on ICEPower 1200AS2. Recommendations appreciated.
@phomchick all good points. But I would argue 2 things, that although built in DACs with Built-in DAC with built-in amps-in-speakers May very well @be the future”. But that will be more of a commercial product in the future than an audiophile product.
Mand the Kefs entwined are good, but not great cans same for all the Dynaudio all in one speakers I’ve heard. Severely limited in many respects. Sound. Precision. Pray. Musicality. Power. Nuance.
And my 2nd point? Well, there is no damn fun if the system and speaker do everything for you. Again, that is a commercial product, not an audiophile product. If DSP is going to do everything for you, then you don’t learn anything about how the sound waves and sound effects can be managed in your room with your own knowledge and know-how. Boring.
@mdeblanc Your Cherries replaced a J2? That says something. And you are “just” using the Desktop 60v amp Version.
I have an Ultra Cherry coming to me soon. For those who may not know, The Ultra is a hybrid SS/CLASS D amp with an 1800w toroidal transformer for extra headroom and transients. SNR is still 116.
Built by Tommy O’Brien of the Digital Amp Co in PA. He is the quintessential independent owner/engineer/designer that sells only via word of mouth and his own thread on AudioCircle, no adverts. He does some custom jobs too.
It’s closing in on sixteen years since Stereophile first stirred the pot when they gave the $1700. PS Audio HCA-2 their Solid State A list recommendation.
I have had the opportunity of trying in my own system a late pre-production of the brand new Merrill Element 118 monos... All amps of the new Oganessom series have class D output stage circuits totally designed in house by Merril... They employ Gallium nitrite transistors switching in the Mhz range.
In spite of the units that I demoed being pre-production, and not yet sporting all the circuit details of the very final implementation, the tone of the monos was absolutely delectable for all parameters I an think of.... From delicacy and extension of treble, to the complexity of the midrange, to the depth and tunefulness of the bass... And let us not forget a quite phenomenal authority, staging and imaging.
Element 118 were immersive and mesmerizing, with a complex resolution and musical tonality that I have experienced only in rare cases. The element 118 prototypes seemed to rank with flagship devices from some of my favorite brands, such as amplifiers from Soloution, the ARC reference series, and my own Rowland M925 monos.
On the other hand, if what you seek is a classic warm tube sound, none of the above will do.... It is not a matter of such designs as the Merrill Oganessom series, Rowland M925 and Daemon, or even the class A/B Soulution amps, or even the reference seiries ARC tube amps. "not being there" yet for a reason or another....
Rather, the designers of any of these devices are not aiming at the slightly euphonic warmth of the classic tube sound.
While general goals at Rowland, ARC, and Soulution include, amongst other parameters, harmonic complexity and minimization of intermodulative distortions in the treble, they aim to maintain an even treatment of harmonics across the spectrum, without preferencial emphasis of any particular region of the audible band. But designers achieve their flagship goals with very different sophisticated strategies, which employ Tubes at ARC, class A/B output stages with Soulution, NCore NC1200 or Pascal X-Pro2 in Rowland, and completely custom design of class D output stage on the Merrill Oganessom series.
Bottomline... Do not get fixated on topologies, and keep an open mind. Keep auditioning to amps of different tonality, designs, and vintage... You never know what might capture your heart *Grins!*
Remember that the worst enemy of audiophiles, and humans in general, is what is sometimes called the false induction step... That is judging an entire class of complex objects based on characteristics of some small number of samples. Even less reliable a technique when the samples are out of date or otherwise obsolete.
Unless you have heard the very latest and best class D amps then you have only heard history.
The brand new Merrill amps have way more musical and detailed sound than the previous Hypex Ncore based amps. You can read some comments on their site and more info will be here shortly.
The brand new Nuprime monos are suppose to be killer.
My about to be released $1000 and $1900 tweaked ICEege amps are seriously great sounding.
My own reference amp for the past 5 years is a class A amp designed by myself. It is dual mono and super, super pure and tweak in all ways....only two fets and two resistors in series with the signal per phase. Well, the ICEedge prototype is overall better.....better in most every way.....and I have three more things to try on the proto amp. I don’t want to go back to my class A amp.
Here is something to ponder......All connectors suck....and I mean big time! I have hardwired my amps to my x-over and speaker drivers for years but only in the last year did I remove the connectors on my interconnects. I had no idea how bad they were. I will never have any connectors (except AC) in my system again. If you have connectors on a warm or colored system then the system still might sound musical. However, having connectors on a pure "straight wire" system will bring agony to the listener. Connectors sound like bad class d or digital....really....grainy, compressed, Aharmonic, rolled off......just bad. My new amps will have my binding post bypass system where the binding post is used only as a clamp, that clamps your speaker wires (hopefully without connectors) directly to the wires coming out of the amp. I will also have optional hardwired interconnects on my amps and also have optional hardwired short pigtails hanging outside the amp that you can solder your own wires to. All these things have never been offered on any amp before (except for my previous amps that had my binding post bypass system).
This is just the beginning.
I predict that in 2-3 years Class D will be so close to pure straight wire that all other amps will then be history except for those addicted to coloration. Class D will also become even more efficient and smaller and cheaper so we will all win on all counts. The class D revolution has started.
We better put up the question again to what this answer above relates to, which is: " Is Class D competitive with linear designs in sound quality, and if not, will it ever be?"
I believe it may be someday but it isn't yet to my ears. I've heard the Parasound Halo Integrated take the Devialet Pro monoblocks to school. The new NAD N-Core based amps sound no better than class D of 15 years ago: cold, analytical and fatiguing. Same for the hybrids I've heard. I'll continue to give new designs a chance, but I've yet to encounter one that sounds as smooth/listenable as a halfway decent class AB amp. I think some audiophiles just don't hear the digital-like character that most, if not all of them exhibit.
There are certain things I cannot argue with. Personal choice for specific amplifiers and speakers. That’s fine.
My argument was not "you should like Class D more than your favorite" but that Class D as a whole is just as good as capable and musical as any other solid state amps, with a lot of the same pitfalls. The technology has in fact arrived for good, and we are better for it.
It does not come down to like or dislike as much IMO as it comes down to the system and comparisons. I have a friend of mine who has Class-D amps and fells like many that they compete in the market for sound quality and price. He has told me that same thing about many other components he has owned. It is only when he finally hears something that presents a difference in his system that he recognizes the sound differences and why. Until he hears that, he feels he has something that is very good. I guess I need to get him the Class A amp my partner built recently to see if he hears any difference. Until then we both won't really know if he is correct or not.
@phomchick - well it's a good suggestion, and the cost of Class D can make it possible to create a separate amp for each driver and use an active crossover. But you're still forgetting the challenge of Class D to reproduce the ultra high frequency "air" that a good Class AB amp will do. I am in the same camp as stereo5 in that I have not heard a Class D amp that really "sings". Granted, they are so extremely clean that it's insane (I have actually been told that sound engineers like to use them because they can hear individual instruments when doing the mix for a record), but every Class D I have heard leaves me wanting more. It just doesn't have that extra edge of "life" that Class AB gives you.
a really excellent class A/B amp hooked up with super expensive speaker cables to a classic speaker with a passive crossover network or,
three very good class D amps hooked directly to three excellent drivers and being fed from a DSP crossover with included room correction?
The first choice is the Audio System of the Dinosaurs, and the second choice is the Audio System of the Future.
The continued development of quality class D amplifiers has opened up the possibility of dedicating an amplifier to each driver in a speaker. The continued development of DSP and associated software has opened up a way to tailor crossovers, equalization, and phase response to specific drivers and speakers and the room they are playing in.
CD transports, DACs, preamps, interconnects, separate amplifiers and speaker cables will all be obsolete in five years. They are the Dinosaurs of Audio left over from 1958 technology.
The future of Audio is visible in the KEF LS50 Wireless, which does away with everything but an active speaker with a DAC and connectivity. Make the speaker bigger, with better bass, and add DSP room correction software, and you have the audiophile system of the future.
One of the most difficult problems of speaker design is the crossover. DSP and active speaker technology is affordable and solves that problem. The biggest problem for today’s audiophile is speaker/room integration. DSP room correction solves that problem.
Will you encase your Dinosaur audio technology in amber and stride confidently towards the future, or will you wrap yourself in $10,000 speaker cables and yell "Over my dead body!!"?
Does that make me a horrible person because I don’t like them? I enjoy the lush romantic sound I get from Mac and since I am spending my money on it, what I like counts (to me).
Absolutely not. But the specifics help everyone understand where you are coming from and what you are comparing to, and give a lot more insight to your story.
My NAD D 3020 is hooked up to a pair of Monitor Audio, which are much more laid back, which may explain the difference in appreciation for it. :)
As I myself have noted, if I had all the $$$ and space I’d buy some CJ which are going to be even more euphonic than your Macs. I still like my ICEpower monoblocks though. I certainly could not point to them and say "look, Class D sound!"
A good friend has the Merril Audio Class D monoblocks. Do not know model number, but they were painted very red. I find them dry and tipped up on top. I tried the Wyred4Sound Class D stereo amp in both of my home systems. I had it in my systems for 2 weeks. I left it on 24/7 and played the Isotek burn in cd for 10 days straight, 24 hours a day. I didn’t like the presentation one bit. Actually, it sounded better before all the break in, but not better in a way I would have kept it. Back it went.
I heard a Devalient, and kept asking myself what all the fuss was about. I heard the MBL integrated (the one Stereophile loves) at the RMAF, hated it. My wife said it sounded shrill. My son has a NAD 3020 integrated Class D amp (the first one) . The rest of his equipment I gave him, a pair of Kef LS50 speakers, Audioquest cables and speaker wire, my old Sony SCD777es SACD player and a Magnum Dynalab FT11 tuner.. I can’t stand listening to his system, way too bright for these old ears. My son thinks it sounds clear, it just gives me a big headache.
I have heard a couple more class D amps in stores but not for long listening sessions. Sorry, I just do not care for it. Does that make me a horrible person because I don’t like them? I enjoy the lush romantic sound I get from Mac and since I am spending my money on it, what I like counts (to me).
Vladimir Shushurin (Lamm) "No, it is not. And I would like to respond to the second part of this question with an allegory. Any field of human activity defines a number of requirements which, when properly implemented, guarantee a positive outcome. For example, the basic requirement in the army and sports is an able-bodied individual. So, it would be quite natural to concentrate on searching for such an individual (especially as we know where to find him). However, out of the blue we decide to choose a feeble-bodied person who, on top of that, is encumbered by various diseases. Having made this decision (which is a priori improper) we start justifying it to ourselves and others by citing the great state of our medicine, which is capable of curing many ailments."
We better put up the question again to what this answer above relates to, which is: " Is Class D competitive with linear designs in sound quality, and if not, will it ever be?"
Vladimir Shushurin (Lamm) "No, it is not. And I would like to respond to the second part of this question with an allegory. Any field of human activity defines a number of requirements which, when properly implemented, guarantee a positive outcome. For example, the basic requirement in the army and sports is an able-bodied individual. So, it would be quite natural to concentrate on searching for such an individual (especially as we know where to find him). However, out of the blue we decide to choose a feeble-bodied person who, on top of that, is encumbered by various diseases. Having made this decision (which is a priori improper) we start justifying it to ourselves and others by citing the great state of our medicine, which is capable of curing many ailments."
When, oh when, will people stop commenting on components and wake up to the fact we are building systems?
Take a speaker with slightly soft top end and marry to a slightly zippy amplifier and the combination could be closer to the ever unattainable perfection.
Equipment reviews are sometimes are funnier than the comics!
because even though you don’t like Class D you are in every single discussion about it.
Sorry didn’t know it was a closed shop, and only one sided opinions were allowed!
"Why I can’t move past 30 year old arguments."
Because they still apply today, but there’s light on the horizon. Just because you can’t hear the problems, doesn’t mean others can’t. As posted here already by others to your chagrin.
I have no time to read your comments, but to show my respect I am going to paste a long lecture here on what I think on the subject.
The Squires method is superior in every way to any previous method. In terms of refinement and air and presence, the Squires method just cannot be compared to any other method.
It has on occasion caused premature births however and needs to be used with caution. Also lights in your room may shift slightly red, undetectable to most. If you aren’t paying attention you will absolutely miss it.
Every time I use a class D, then switch back to class A/B I think, nope, class D is not quite there yet. Case in point, the superb Belles ARIA Mono Block Amplifiers I reviewed for Dagogo.com outshine the class D amps I have used (several). The ARIA amps are still here, the others are gone.
That's not to say you cannot build a wonderful sounding rig with class D, as I have done so many times. But, you get even a more affordable classic design such as the ARIA set up well and imo there is still a significant gap in performance. I suspect you would have to spend at least double the amount of the ARIA amps to get close.
I have been through this cycle several times, perhaps five or six times, and while class D keeps getting better, so do the class A and A/B amps. They are not sitting on their laurels, but making nice improvements, refinements as well.
FYI, the just reviewed COS D1 DAC + Preamplifier (reviewed) is an impressive unit, and with the ARIA Monos the sound quality is most impressive. I have used some very pricey amps, and this combo is the best of class with the Vapor Audio Joule White. Of course, I am using the Schroeder Method of Interconnect Placement with it (see other threads under Cable forum if interested). This gives a very unfair advantage over a standard setup. At this point it is not recommended to use the Schroeder Method with class D amps, as it could cause problems operationally. (NOTIFICATION; ANYONE CONSIDERING THE SCHROEDER METHOD OF INTERCONNECT PLACEMENT PLEASE HEED WARNINGS/RECOMMENDATIONS IN REGARD TO USE OF THAT METHOD; it is entirely a "do at your own risk" activity). Consequently it's no contest between class D and class A or A/B. The Schroeder Method causes the traditional setup with a class D amp to sound significantly lacking in comparison to a class A or A/B with the Schroeder Method. It is so superior that I have reservations that any class D set up with a single IC would outperform it regardless of cost. That suspicion may be proven wrong over time, and I will keep trying various class D amps (So far, the Pascal based Red Dragon has been a standout; I would never try the Schroeder Method of interconnect placement with such an amp), but I suspect the deficit of a single IC is too great to overcome.
Make no mistake, the Schroeder Method is no gimmick, nor a "tweak". It's quite powerful in its effect, with an impact similar to upgrading one or two components to the tune of several thousand dollars. I am not exaggerating. Read the comments from those who have tried. But again, check with your manufacturer of gear and it's entirely do at your own risk. If you think cables can't do such things, then you are a bit behind the curve on cables. And, no, I have zero interest in arguing that point. :)
So, at this point, merely doubling interconnects as per the Schroeder Method has now handily bested any class D amp set up with single IC that I have ever used, and in the foreseeable future.
I would like to explain to everyone why heavier than air flight is impossible, you cannot transmit radio signals across a vacuum and transistors will never be useful. Bear with me as I gather the relevant quotes.
erik_squires Old school, get professional help from GIK
and don't neglect the flooring, between and behind the speakers. Try using pillows and blankets to test with for free. :)
Erik, thanks much for the advice. I have throw rugs, over a tile floor, in front of the speakers. I'm going to try pillow and blankets today! I saw another suggestion on agon about hanging towels behind the speaker as a test. I've got plenty of towels and nothing to loose.
The dealer who sold me the Zenith came to my house with an assortment of demo diffusers, absorbers, and bass traps. I could have purchased them at a good price, but the colors did not fit my taste or room, and some panels looked worn. But, I will say, the SQ improved with them.
I'm educating myself on DIY acoustic treatment and have been corresponding with RealTraps. This past week, I began researching GIK products. I plan to call GIK after the holidays, send pictures of my setup, and go from there.
Regarding Class D amps, the NAD M22 v2 uses Hypex nCore technology; and overall I'm quite happy with M12/M22 combo//Zenith MK2. The sound and SQ is different than that produced by my 90's era McIntosh C31v pre and MC2600 PA; and my 80's era SoundCraftsman SP4001 EQ/pre and Pioneer SPEC-4 PA. Since the source material, technologies, and speakers are different with each setup, I think that should be expected. I use each system different. My vintage analog gear is in a rather large basement bar/sitting/pool room area; the digital gear in my basement listening room.
If I can warm the listening room sound a bit and reduce the echo chamber effect with the right room treatment (and may different cables, cords, and interconnects), I'll be a happier camper.
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