The Truth about Modern Class D

@mdeblanc 
Your Cherries replaced a J2? That says something. And you are “just” using the Desktop 60v amp Version. 

I have an Ultra Cherry coming to me soon. For those who may not know, The Ultra is a hybrid SS/CLASS D amp with an 1800w toroidal transformer for extra headroom and transients. SNR is still 116.

Built by Tommy O’Brien of the Digital Amp Co in PA. He is the quintessential independent owner/engineer/designer that sells only via word of mouth and his own thread on AudioCircle, no adverts. He does some custom jobs too. 

@phomchick
all good points. But I would argue 2 things, that although built in DACs with Built-in DAC with built-in amps-in-speakers May very well @be the future”. But that will be more of a commercial product in the future than an audiophile product. 

Mand the Kefs entwined are good, but not great cans same for all the Dynaudio all in one speakers I’ve heard. Severely limited in many respects. Sound. Precision. Pray. Musicality. Power. Nuance. 

And my 2nd point? Well, there is no damn fun if the system and speaker do everything for you. Again, that is a commercial product, not an audiophile product. If DSP is going to do everything for you, then you don’t learn anything about how the sound waves and sound effects can be managed in your room with your own knowledge and know-how.   Boring. 

@phomchick
what I mean is that the active speakers with  D amperage are barely getting sold compared to non active speakers, because they still severely lag behind non active speakers in sales and use. (Except younger folks who find commercial all in one products satisfactory). Therefore, foretelling a utopic all in one Class D speaker in the audiophile community in the near future, IMO, is way way overly optimistic. 

I mean, we can’t even get George to accept Class D even at its simplest face value! :)

 @abasia 
good question, and one I have asked earlier when I was thinking the same thing ...

to to avoid some unnecessary quibbles, we probably should have established some parameters for Class D in terms of quality r/t:
1. Price of the class d amp, and 
2: perhaps overall system cost, assuming some reasonable sense of equality (price, performance) b/w the main components in the system 

Examples:
1.  E.g., for the price of the Class D amp alone, at what Price point would the GENERAL price break be?  b/w a good Class D and one that the unsatisfactory Class D amp. 
$1000 ?   $2000? $3k? And so on and so forth. 
E.g., “even”George has said he finds Class D acceptable at the 1.5 MHz switching speed. How much are those SE-1s?

—> Same question for everyone else. There will be a variety of price points given,, reflecting individual tastes. 

B/c right now both sides are making blanket statements about Class D. And both are wrong. But both are right. It’s the specifics guys. Cuz right now we are both just hitting our heads against the wall. 

In the words of a prior college professor, “it’s the specifics stupid”.

@uberwaltz
i agree, the tech specs presented have been informative. 
For me, The random nature of personal testamonials and anecdotes have been just as important to expand my own breadth of knowledge. 

e.g., @mapman — the BC Ref 1000m’s (and per a prior post- many are happy with them Only with OLDER Thiels). And the C5I. 

And I will just add that the $500 Napa Acoustics Class A, B, and D all in one amp, the Cask series, made the KEF LS50s sing more naturally and organically that any other amp I have heard running through the LS50’s. And the Class D mode sounded the best IMO.  And this was in a hotel room at this years NorCal CAS this year. 

https://www.napaacoustic.com/cask/

@pinthrift
I would have to agree, "with knowledgeable friends using NCore amps, great sound is available using Class D...with a little work and great cost effectiveness. Good power, dedicated lines, upgraded outlet(s) good wire can approach world class outcomes"

Well put Norm. especially about the "auxiliary" equipment to allow the Class D units to sound their best. 

And just to note, the supportive/auxiliary gear (conditioners, etc) I ORIGINALLY used to make my transistor and tube gear sound better. But then all I did was exchange the SS/tube gear for Class D with the same conditioners, etc, and I got BETTER sonic outcomes with the Class D. 

In other words, if someone wants to make a case that "Class D only sounds better with cleaner power, etc"-- I am saying, that is not generally true. 

E.g:
1.  Clean Power: I use a transformer isolator and a small conditioner for my front end gear. No etch or grain in the sound.
2. clean power cords: I'm now using a power cord from Triode Wired Labs for Class D units that removes any digital etch. 

Last, I've found that I can have "better" Class D sound with a hybrid design. E.g, I have a Cherry Ultra Class D amp (Digital Amplifier Company in PA) that uses an 1800w transformer with Class D for transients and big bands, and I'm hearing instruments and nuance I never heard before. also, with a more balanced and larger soundstage