The new Synergistic Research BLUE fuses ....

Looks like the mods took deep offense to our British car tangent...lol
Merry Xmas guys (gals?)!

Go figure. 🤔

Yes. Merry Christmas to all. And here's to even better listening in the New Year.

"When audiophile fuses blow"

I’m sorry to say that one week after installing them in the signal path of my amps, one of the SR fuses died, making an expensive hobby even more expensive. Fuses not under warranty because they are no longer available, having been replaced by the black and now blue. The amp is otherwise fine, btw.

I think there’s a lesson here somewhere. :) DIY beeswax perhaps?

From previous threads I think most people recommended to go 1 fuse size higher with the SR fuses, not sure quite why though.
That is what I did and 9 months in, no issues....touch wood as soundly raps head!

@uberwaltz   Thanks, I was not aware of that. I must say that the SR's sounded better than the basic ceramic Schurters.  Maybe the Schurters will break in and improve (he wonders hopefully.)  :)

For those with technical expertise, how significant would a plus .25A value be?  Specifically, there are 1.25A Hi-Fi tuning fuses still available.  I can figure percentage but not "real world" difference. Thanks.

I have no technical expertise but due to availability, I went from a 1.6A to a 2.0A fuse and nothing untoward happened. It was with a PADIS fuse but I've read where others have gone up more than that with no ill effect.
YMMV and some here will admonish those who do it.

All the best,
Nonoise

I went from a 5 amp to an 8 amp fuse due to the size of my amp's storage capacitors.  They are huge at 7" X 3" pairs per monoblock.  The reason given by SR is that large storage caps cause a greater surge to fill upon startup compared to the typical multi-small storage caps used in most modern equipment.  My dyna 70 amp only required a step up from a 3 amp to a 4 amp fuse (although it's storage cap was replaced with one running the entire diagonal length on the bottom).  I remember that for my speakers in my video room, only the same small value fast blow fuses were recommended by SR.  I'm planning on replacing the video speakers so I didn't bother buying new fuses for them.

During a discussion with a well known amplifier manufacturer he recommended that I go one value higher with each stock fuse I was replacing with an upgraded (boutique?) fuse.

I owned an MGB in college. My buddy owned a Jag about 3 years later. Both were outfitted with Lucas electrical including headlamps and rear lamps. We came to appreciate 2 phrases famous in Britain:
1- Lucas Electrical -otherwise known as the "Prince of Darkness".
2-If Lucas made guns, the world would never be at war.

OK back to the thread. 

Big amps have big inrush for sure but surely if fuse rating is correct what difference should it make as to who/what fuse it is if it can handle that inrush?
Even though I can hear sq differences with SR fuses it is a poor show if they do not behave as the rating on them says compared to an el cheapo Bussman fuse for example!

My concern on that would be if i replaced the fuses in a piece that was under factory warranty still with higher rated fuses by SR or similar and then something occurred which caused internal damage to the equipment.
I am not sure how closely manufacturers spec out their fuse ratings for protection...would going from 2.5 to 3a say really make any real world difference internally?

In the case of SR fuses, my perception has been that the rationale for going up one or two rating increments from stock has simply been that a number of users (at least 8, as I recall) have reported in the Red Fuse thread and other fuse-related threads that SR fuses having stock current ratings blew unnecessarily. While I can only recall one instance in which someone reported that an up-rated SR fuse blew unnecessarily.

That suggests, IMO, that the combinations of current and time which would cause an SR fuse to blow are more similar to those of a typical stock fuse having a somewhat lower current rating than they are to a stock fuse having the same current rating. Which is why I had said in the Red Fuse thread that IMO it makes sense to go up one or two ratings. Other opinions differed in some cases, as Nonoise pointed out earlier, and unfortunately there is room for differences of opinion because the detailed technical information that is provided by Littelfuse and Cooper Bussmann defining the blow characteristics of their fuses (nominal melting point in amperes squared x seconds, and graphs of maximum current vs. time) are not provided by SR and most or all other boutique manufacturers. With the warranty concern cited by Uberwaltz also being a consideration.

Regarding PS’s questions, I suspect from the wording of his posts as well as the rating of the fuse that he is referring to a DC rail fuse, rather than a mains fuse. Which means that inrush current at turn-on probably won’t be much of a concern, if any. However it sounds like he is considering going from a 1 amp stock fuse to a 1.25 amp HiFi Tuning fuse, and I have no idea whether the rationale I cited above for going up a rating or two in the case of SR fuses would be applicable to HFT fuses. On the other hand, though, intuitively it doesn’t sound like much of a difference to me, so IMO it is a reasonable course of action.

Regards,
-- Al

Innocent question: How do you know a fuse blows unnecessarily? A fuse blows, any fuse, because the energy, the current, for whatever reason, exceeded the fuse’s capability. It did it’s job. I suspect it would take a lot of effort to get to the bottom of the so called fuse blowing. If memory serves all fuses, stock and aftermarket fuses, have been documented over the years on various fora as having what appears to be “premature failure.” So I tend to doubt it is an SR issue per se. Especially in light of the fact all these horror stories of fuses blowing are quite anecdotal. Going up in rating does carry some risk, you know, since damage to electrical components can occur. 

I don't blow fuses. I blow up preamplifiers. Lol

I should have known better, but I was pondering what some of the best solid state amplifiers from 20 years ago sound like compared to some of today's best. I started a new thread. Immediately half of the responses are If they measure competently, the amps should sound the same. Ugh. Can't these people hear? Do they listen??

FWIW I took my red fuse out of my pre-amp mainly so as not to have to be concerned about uncertainties in the specs that matter and determine if a fuse does its job correctly  (ie blow when it should).  

If I heard any difference at all in the sound between the stock fuse in the Audio Research pre-amp  (very well built to start with, not "cheap") and the red fuse,  it was so subtle as to not practically matter compared to making sure my device is safeguarded and operating properly.  I swapped fuses many times up front in the interest of determining any differences in how they "sound".

Hey, that’s how it goes sometimes. 😛

@almarg
"Regarding PS’s questions, I suspect from the wording of his posts as well as the rating of the fuse that he is referring to a DC rail fuse, rather than a mains fuse. Which means that inrush current at turn-on probably won’t be much of a concern, if any. However it sounds like he is considering going from a 1 amp stock fuse to a 1.25 amp HiFi Tuning fuse, and I have no idea whether the rationale I cited above for going up a rating or two in the case of SR fuses would be applicable to HFT fuses. On the other hand, though, intuitively it doesn’t sound like much of a difference to me, so IMO it is a reasonable course of action."

Thank you sir for your comments. And thanks to everyone else as well. The seller of the SR fuses did suggest going up a value from 1A after I reported the failure of one.

My mono amps are sturdy vintage MFA which have been recently highly-upgraded by one of the original designers. Each amp employs a quartet of either 6550’s or KT-88’s.

They have a 10A fast-blow mains fuse and the 1A fast blow I mentioned. I follow a careful procedure when powering up my system. First, turn on MFA preamp with mute switches in mute position. I wait a couple of minutes. I then flip the power toggle switch on each amp from off to on. I wait a few more minutes, and then flip the other toggle switch from standby to operate, waiting until power tubes have warmed up for a few minutes, and then flip the preamp mute switches to
-O DB.

I tested all the tubes in the amp in which the 1A SR20 fuse blew to make sure none had shorted out. Testing included the small tubes as well. All tubes tested fine.

As mentioned I do prefer the sound with the audiophile fuses, and will give the matter more thought. If I can safely go up in value from the 1A fuses I will consider it. I have requested an opinion from the amp designer. I’m merely a music lover and not electrically, technically knowledgeable. :)

The seller of the SR fuses did suggest going up a value from 1A after I reported the failure of one.

No don’t do it this is total BS, without confirmation from the manufacturer of the amp

If I can safely go up in value from the 1A fuses I will consider it. .

Amps stock fuses are specified to blow just above the amps max spec’d current draw, as to minimise any damage to the amp it self, should anything untoward draw more, the fuse should blow.

Any manufacturer will say no to this 1A upgrade, as it’s no longer going to protect your equipment like the original spec’ed fuse would.
If the manufacture "hypothetically" said yes and you have proof of that, then he is liable to fix it free of charge + shipping if the amp blows and the 1A higher fuse didn’t protect it..

Cheers George

Hi George,
To clarify, I am considering the possibility of increasing the value of the 1amp fuse slightly to perhaps 1.25A. The 10A mains fuses will remain the same

The rationale I'm getting is that standard fuses have a wider tolerance, perhaps 10%,  but if I understand correctly, the tolerances of most tweak fuses are narrower.  As I said, I am not an engineer or tech-head. :)

Just trying to make a fine stereo system a bit finer.

Just in: I have received "official clearance" to use as high as 1.6A fast blow fuses in the signal path of my amps. Learning as I go. More later.

Received a blue fuse and Telos stickers at the same time from
the Cable Company.

I applied the stickers first, inside a cd player.  A tweezer is supplied, to pry the stickers off the plastic they are adhered to.
You want to apply pressure so that the bottom of the
sticker is moved, and then use the tweezer to move it to its final placement, carefully.  Simply tap down on the top of the sticker when in place.  Pretty simple, and quick.

In an hour I started hearing an improvement.  24 hours later,
the SQ is much better.  I would say that this enhancement can
rival a fuse upgrade, in many systems.

I am going to upgrade the player's SR black fuse to the blue, so I wanted to do the stickers first.  I think they do offer sonic benefits, and are another option that is worthwhile to put in place, considering their unique features and resulting SQ in relation to their cost.

ps288 posts12-22-2017 12:09pmJust in: I have received "official clearance" to use as high as 1.6A fast blow fuses in the signal path of my amps. Learning as I go. More later.

Yes in the signal path is fine for the manufacture of the amp to say this, as it's a danger to the speakers not the amp.
 I thought you were upping the rating of the fuse in the mains of the amp, this they won't consent to. 
BTW: Which amp manufacturer put fuses in the speaker output, very interested to know this??

Cheers George

Geogehifi 12-22-2017
Which amp manufacturer put fuses in the speaker output, very interested to know this??

Hi George,

I suspect the 1 amp fuses (for which "official clearance" has been obtained to substitute fuses rated as high as 1.6 amps) are for the DC rails, not for the speaker outputs. Yesterday PS stated as follows:

My mono amps are sturdy vintage MFA which have been recently highly-upgraded by one of the original designers. Each amp employs a quartet of either 6550’s or KT-88’s.

Obviously amplifiers meeting that description can supply much more than 1 ampere to the speakers. While the DC rail currents would be considerably smaller than the output currents since the output transformers would step up the current supplied by the output tubes, while stepping down the voltage.

Best regards,
-- Al

@almarg 

Yes, Thanks, Al, that's it precisely.
If I've confused anyone with my layman's terminology, I apologize.  It is my understanding that the DC rails are part of the signal path.  

Before I can consider SR fuses, trust issues with Synergistic Research as a company has to be addressed. It’s hard for me to take them seriously after being exposed to one of thier greasy con flim-flam demos. If they’re a serious well-intentioned manufacturer why are they running scam demos at audio shows?

Here are the titles for some threads "madavid0" has initiated:

"Basis Turntables : Worth it Rip Off"
"Class D = Trash?"
"Rega and ProAc : Bad?"
"Anticables : Scam"
"Synergestic Research: Scam"
"Cartridges : Complete Scam?

"madavid0" may following a pattern and an agenda here as well- or maybe not.  :)

@madavid0,

Would you please care to elaborate on SR ‘con film-flam or scam’ demos?

Fact-5 amp rated black SR fuses in my large mono tube amps blew on turn-on, replaced with 6 amp fuses. which also blew immediately.  Amps are rated at 5 amps. Replaced with SR recommended 8 amp fuses. Works fine for about 500 hours, replaced with blue SR fuses which are now working about 50 hours without incident. That’s the proof that fuses do blow when one’s equipment is unusual in design with huge turn-on capacitor demands, beyond typical modern equipment.

I’ve got my system pretty much dialed-in. I spend countless happy hours listening to all kinds of music. If fuses can further enhance that experience, I am down with ’em :) I am no longer a skeptic. I don’t even mind a bit of out-of-pocket to learn how best to employ the tweak fuses. If it turns out that they keep blowing, I’ll go back to basics. I’ve ordered a few higher value fuses and will check in here once I’ve installed and compared them. I’m not yet at the point where I’d spend $150 or more per fuse. Stating the obvious: we all have our respective priorities and budget limitations.  Peace my audio sisters and brothers.  

@lalitk   A big +1 for your question.  If someone here is going to level such a charge at a manufacturer it's incumbent upon them to explain the alleged "scam" in detail.

Look forward to hearing from you madavido.

@fleschler 

May I ask?
Did SR reimburse or replace those blown fuses for you?
Or were you hundreds out of pocket on a steep learning curve?

@madavid0

Put up or shut up....

Hifiman wrote:

@lalitk A big +1 for your question. If someone here is going to level such a charge at a manufacturer it’s incumbent upon them to explain the alleged "scam" in detail.

Look forward to hearing from you madavido."

There is nothing to look forward to with this madavidO person.
I hope we can keep the focus on the efficacy of tweak fuses and continuing to trust our ears. Otherwise this thread will disintegrate into yet another Internets ream of bullpucky.

What I have learned so far is that fuses do indeed make a difference and can be a change for the better in one’s system. I’ve also learned that the direction of the fuse can make a difference. What I have yet to learn is how reliable tweak fuses are or are not.

I've tried three different brands (none of them SR) and never had a fuse blow. I even went up from a 1.6A to a 2A and nothing bad happened.
Trust your ears.

All the best,
Nonoise

Yo, Nonoise, if you’re in the Seattle area and a craft beer drinker, the first round is on me. :) . Maybe even the second round.

@ps   My question for madavido was not an attempt on my part to derail the fuse discussion.  I too have heard positive improvements in my system from fuses, footers, hell...I demagnetize my CDs and SACDs!

I have no relationship with SR but don't like ad hominem attacks on manufacturers like that.  As uberwaltz said; madavido should  "put up or shut up."

@hifiman5 

Madavido is a distraction.  Just someone who seems to enjoy trolling, someone who has nothing.  I'll not go there.  Perhaps the first syllable in it's handle says it all.  "Mad."

I started a topic about the Syngerstic Research scam after coming back from AXPONA where I was subjected to it:

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/synergestic-research-scam

I also posted a video of the demo to prove it was a scam. The short version:

1. The SR spokesman refused to do a live A/B switch, coming up with a nonsense excuse that we won’t be able to hear the difference if they switched in the middle of music.

2. Spokesman constantly sought affirmative responses from the audience at hearing differences in between playbacks.

3. Never played the whole song through, frequently cutting off and resuming at major tempo / volume changes in the track.

4. Try as hard as I could, I simply could hear no difference.

I hope you guys can see how these activities can reduce the trust level in a manufacturer. Even if the fuses are legit, trying to push frauds or using fraudulent sales tactics openly abusing audio memory limitations and group psychology puts everything they do into question.

@ps I wish I was in Seattle to take you up on your offer and to buy the next round myself. I loved it in Portland back in '89-'90 but I'm down here in L.A., all the time thinking of moving north.

All the best,
Nonoise

@nonoise

Shucks. A good part of my career as an advertising photographer was in L.A. At the time it was great but eventually took its toll. I’ve been in the Seattle area for 22 years although initially the move presented challenges, it’s all worked out. I’ve learned to appreciate seasons again, and have become an unlikely but avid gardener. :) . Finally I am out of the fast lane.

Uberwaltz-SR was very accommodating and gave me 100% replacements at no additional costs in just days.  They couldn't have been nicer to me.  So when I upgraded to blue SR from black SR fuses of the same values, I knew the blue SR fuses wouldn't blow.  

@fleschler 
That is very good to hear!
Good customer service can be hard to find nowadays.
Just bought a Hegel H300 for a second system, think I will order a SR Blue for it and see what I think, manual states 10a.

Hi all,

today changed my first black fuse in the Unison Absolute against the blue one. The Unison has 6 Fuses....UUGH.
But i could hear right away the change which the main fuse made.

First i was disappointed, course the sound was like under a cushion. I changed direction of the Fuse and the room open and presentation became much bigger and realistic as soon that was done. Still Handclaping and voices and some part of music presentation seamed veiled yet. I have the feeling the middles are not really balanced yet. I know these Problems from Equipment which is not burned in. So one day it sounds somehow ok, 2 hours later it changed again. The size of the presentation seams not stable. Control either is not 100%.
Dynamics are better with the blue, Soundstage is also bigger.

I will put another blue in the Powerconditioner which has unfortunately 3 Fuses. I do have a active bass system.
with 2amp each side 5 fuses.  Anyone keen to make me a X-mas present:-)).
Does any of you guys has made the same experience changing from black to blue?

THE SECRET TWEAK

Over the good part of this past year I’ve been beta testing a new tweak, the name of which is "Total Contact." Its a hi-bred graphene contact enhancer that is different from all other contact enhancers that have come and gone for one reason or another. I’m not new to these contact enhancers, having had quite a bit of experience with a product developed by the late Brian Kyle and his "Quick Silver" contact enhancer. The "Total Contact" is different ... a LOT different.

"Total Contact" is graphene based and is not a vibration control. It eliminates micro-arching between two contacts. Micro-arching, much like Micro-vibration smears the sound in our stereo systems. Its the type of distortion that we don’t know is there .... until we eliminate it. There is no break-in as we know it. The sound is improved right off the bat, but what you hear is only a smidgen of what’s to come.

I tested three generations of "TC," each of which was an improvement over the previous incarnation. The final mix was cryogenitically treated and made for a more effective, much smoother application. It comes in a large hypodermic needle type plunger containing 1.5 ml of product and includes a instructional DVD and an application brush.

The application should be applied with a very thin coat to all of your electrical connections .... from your cartridge pins to your power cords. I did my entire system, including the ends of my fuses.

Upon initial application, you will notice an improvement in clarity, correctness of tonal balance and a more overall organic sound. But ... that is just scratching the surface of what this magic paste does. As it cures, the improvements become more apparent. Much more!

There are two real break-through events that happen almost to the day with "Total Contact," one at four weeks and another at eight weeks . At four weeks, you’ll get a real jump in clarity and overall improvement. That’s only a taste though of what’s to come at eight weeks. At eight weeks your system’s focus will make a jump in SQ that is so real - its surreal.

After 40 years in the hobby, and a total tweak nut, I have never heard anything that does what this graphene paste does. The see-through clarity at eight weeks becomes simply amazing. The "paste" eventually cures into a kind of polymer plastic and it seems that the sound improves with each listening session. So, its important that you leave your contacts alone for the duration. If you’re the type of person that continually switches wires in and out, you’ll have to re paste until enough time has elapsed to get "the cure."

The only problem I had was with the first batch and that had to do with shorting out a tube pin in the line stage. Use the "TC" very sparingly on tube pins, if at all. I only had problems with the line stage tube pins. The Amp, CD Player and Phono Stage has had no tube pin problems at all.  

Tim Mrock, one of our fellow A’goners, is the developer of the product. Its taken Tim 15 years and several patents to get it right. Tim has "pasted" every electrical contact he can find in his audio system, all of the switches in his circuit breaker box, every contact in his car ... and has used it in commercial applications such as hospital circuit breakers, surgical lights ... and other places where efficiency and long life of electrical components are deemed important.

This product is highly recommended to anyone who truly wants to get the most out of his/her audio systems. There’s enough product in each tube to do at least two audio systems as it just takes a very thin coat on each application to be effective. The last tube was enough to do my system twice and then a friend’s system this past weekend.

The release date will be between Christmas and the New Year. A 1.5mil tube with applicator brush and DVD will retail for $299.99. Buy it ... like the SR Blue fuses, its a real winner.

Frank

PS: There were a couple of other A’goner beta testers of this product as well. Hopefully, they will chime in here with their experiences for comparison. I "pasted" both of Steve Fleschler’s systems a few days ago, perhaps he will comment on his results too. We forgot to paste Steve’s power cords though, so there’s a lot more to be had from Steve’s two fantastic systems.

Frank

Frank, thanks for your description. I can see this treatment working well.  Does it come with an applicator? 

^^^ Yes. It comes with an applicator brush. 

Just for clarification you did not pay for the SECRET TWEAK, right? This was a quid pro quo one assumes.

Merry Xmas everyone! 

The secret tweak is a secret sauce? Sounds to ocd for me. I tried the silver contact sauce years ago and regretted that messy endeavor... ymmv

Mad Scientist, from down under, has had their version of a Graphene Contact Enhancer for awhile now and even offered the smallest version for free some time ago. I wonder if it's anything like the one here.

All the best,
Nonoise

^^^ No, nothing like it. "Total Contact" uses a patented binder and is not oily. This stuff really works.

Merry Christmas guyz. :-)


Frank

^^^ In the case of the "Total Contact," you definitely get what you pay for .... and then some.