Disclosure: I am not new to Aric Audio, but I am new to the 300B.
I took delivery of my Aric Audio 300B PSET a couple of months ago. Since then, every listening hour has been different than it would have been were I new to both. I want to know who is responsible for what I'm hearing. So, the overriding question every observation is passed through is simply "Was that the 300B or was that the 'Aric Audio Heft'?" Over the years I have purchased a number of different amps and preamps from Aric and have come to identify certain characteristics that can be expected from all of his builds. That's why I keep going back. Examples include the "dead black" background, the solid signal strength delivered by his preamps, the ease with which the soundstage can be mapped, and the raw power resulting from the overbuilt approach he takes in his design work: "The Aric Audio Heft." Knowing what I would get from any Aric Audio amp is instrumental in being able to appreciate the magic of the "show off tube."
I've heard it said that people who go to the 300B never really come back and I've been intrigued by that ever since. It invites critical listening across the broadest spectrum of music one can tolerate. It's here that observations are bagged and tagged, the first being the kind of music I listen to matters much less because I find myself listening differently and hearing so much more. One of my favorites is the leading edge of the lower frequencies and the way every beat reminds me that I'm listening to a 300B. The way I would characterize the sound profile would be to say it's as if the veil has finally been lifted and the distance between the performance and my listening chair closed. You know it immediately even if you can't quite define it yet and it commands your attention.
For some reason I'm surprised by how closely the tonal qualities of SET and PSET modes align. Somehow, I thought there would be more of a "sonic cost" for that extra power. I'm still cautious here though because the quad of tubes I'm using for PSET mode are not topflight tubes. So, the final analysis will have to wait until I can level the playing field. In SET mode I'm listening to a pair of Gold Lions, which I consider to be at least among the heavyweights. The question I'm presently grappling with is which tubes come next? I've done my due diligence researching the various offerings and think it will be a quad of Emission Labs XLS 300Bs. Any input around your experience with 300B tubes I would welcome. Yes, I have my wish list that starts with the Western Electrics (which I'm sure I'll own one day) but the guidance I'm seeking here is the step between now and then. What would be a suitable tube to take an already remarkable experience to a whole new level? Conversely, are there tubes that I should simply stay away from? My thanks to all. Happy listening.
My present custom build 300B SET monoblocks are my all time favorite amps. I've been though class A/B, class A SS, push pull tubes with some of KT family, 6550, EL34, 2A4, 845 and 300B SET. What you're hearing is what I call immediacy, SET has performer in room transparency, relatively few parts in these low power tube amps very close to straight wire, signal doesn't have to go through myriad of parts, circuit boards. With top flight power supplies and sympathetic speaker partnering these amps capable of playing any music with authority, I certainly don't avoid any genre of music.
As for 300B tubes, all the top flight have their fans, can't really go wrong with Takatsuki, EML, WE, Elrog, Psvane Acme, Audio Note, probably forgetting others. These all play at much higher level than rest, meaning higher resolving, transparency with these. I do see occasional failures with 300B, but nothing concerning assuming amp doesn't overdo it with plate voltages
I say the output trannies are way more important than the output tube types. The best output trannies are still the MIJ Tango’s. Those are in my 2A3 Sanei 260A, along with a Tango choke and power tranny for the power supply.
I have been using the ELM 300B XLS tubes for many years, and the amp has been modified a bit by Paul Birkeland to accomodate the differnt voltage required by these tubes (for you aficianados, I don't recall what voltage is involved, but Mr. Birkeland knows).
The amp is one that was built by Sonic Frontiers, and according to Paul, had some pretty nice transformers on it. It was offered as a kit.
He says it is as good as any $5000 300B amp available these days. I enjoy it greatly, although it is not what I listen to most of the time, that being a 3C24 amp designed and built by Paul. It works a treat with my custom built Tannoy HPD 315's.
I did some research and read some very positive reviews on the Psvane Acme 300B’s. I have a VAC Renaissance 70/70 Signature and was researching tubes for it. What I don’t know is which 300 b’s are "safe" to use in it. I will discuss with Kevin Hayes later this month when I go get my amp from him after the recent upgrades it’s getting. He and Brent didn’t seem to know much about the Psvane ACME. I may just get the Golden Lion as that is what they recommend. As far as the 300B sound, it is the sonic realism that you are there which is the allure.
I may just get the Golden Lion as that is what they recommend. As far as the 300B sound, it is the sonic realism that you are there which is the allure.
Your VAC Renaissance 70/70 is an excellent and classic amplifier. It requires 4 pair of 300b tubes, so things get expensive in a hurry.
In your situation I would heed the recommendation of Kevin Hayes. My SET amplifier of course only need a single 300b tube per channel. So much more economical and simpler when dealing with the upper tier of 300b tubes.
I am 100% in agreement with you and @snsregarding the superb virtues of this tube. Utterly natural and realistic reach out and touch/breath of life characteristics.
I’ve been using my SET since 2009 and I’m still thrilled with its sonic performance. I’ve been using the splendid EML XLS 300b the past 7 or 8 years with zero issues or complaints.
I have the Aric Audio Super 300B SET which is fantastic. I like the Western Electrics the best, followed by the Kron Balloons, and then the EML XLS. I've tried a variety of more mundane tubes but the three I mentioned are much better. I also have a custom 2A3 amp that sounds amazing with Kron 2A3SQ tubes. But right now I am listening with PS Audio BHK 300 Monoblocks. To my surprise, I liked them better than either the 300B or 2A3 amps but maybe I just wanted a change. Honestly, past a certain point of quality it is more a preference for a certain type of sound rather than absolute goodness.
I am using a Toolshed Amps 300b with WE 300bs and I can sincerely say this amp is end game for me. I wasn't even in need of an amp, my Quicksilver amps were just fine.
Transparency and tone I have never experienced with Push Pull amps. End of the road for me, I'm having Matt build me it's companion preamp based on the 205d DHT.
Those WE sound so good, I bought a spare pair because I was afraid at some point they would run out of some of the original materials and have to change the "recipe". I remember hearing they only had enough for 30,000 tubes .
That type of site would be nice but I'm unaware of any. I believe that you'd be happy with a 300b SET paired with your Klipsch Speakers. As is often reminded, good output transformers and solid quality power supply are important aspects for a good SET.
I have two rectifier tubes in the power supply and I'm using Sylvania NOS 5U4GBs with black plates. For the 300B SET/PSET application, is there a better option?
I have two rectifier tubes in the power supply and I’m using Sylvania NOS 5U4GBs with black plates. For the 300B SET/PSET application, is there a better option?
IMO it is not possible to choose one and declare it the best choice. First it would depend upon which 300b amplifier. Some rectifier tubes are better fits with one amplifier compared to another.
2nd, listeners will have their individual preferences based upon hearing various tubes. Each rectifier has its own specific sonic characteristics/signature. People can make broad or general recommendations and that’s about it.
In my Coincident Frankenstein 300b mono blocks I’ve been very pleased with the Mullard GZ 37 (CV 378) for quite some time. I can report that it is a very reliable and good sounding rectifier tube for my SET amplifiers. I couldn’t necessarily extrapolate how it would be with various other 300b amplifiers.
I don't follow your line of thought. Western Electric has chosen their market sector/niche to compete in. So, it is strictly up to a consumer to select their spending comfort zone. There are "multiple" 300b SET amplifiers available at a very wide range of cost. There are 2000.00 USD 300b SETs for purchase. One example that has good owner feedback satisfaction is Willsenton. There is the usedd amplifier option as well.
Thanks for posting this as it brings back fond memories. When I was using push-pull amplifiers I’d order tubes from Andy. They were very good quality and he knows his stuff. Since I have had SET I hardly have to change anything for years. I don’t believe that he handles 300b tubes (Vast majority are current production).
My newly built DAC utilizes rectifier tubes (5Y3,5V4, EZ 81etc). I will get in touch with him about these once I receive the DAC.
A good quality lower cost 300b amplifier is a tough act. Simple circuits and fewer parts count on one hand. But, those parts have to be at least decent/reasonable quality or the SET will disappoint with its sound quality and reliability.
I like many 300b amps, although I would not pick it as my favorite tube type. Likewise, I like SET amps, but, my absolute favorite amps happen to be a pushpull amp (running crazy expensive and exotic 252 tube) and a custom made OTL amp (can't remember the tube type, might be 509). I own a pushpull 349 amp that is a custom rebuild of a Western Electric 133 amp) and a 2a3 PSET (Audio Note Kageki). The downside of PSET amps is the tendency for one tube in the parallel pair to become weak quite quickly, meaning the extra power is not there for a long time unless the weak tube is replaced).
As for the specific 300b, the new Western Electrics have a quite generous warranty, and if they are anything like the prior reissues, they can be expected to last a very long time if not pushed too hard.
Built an Audio Electronic Supply (Cary) SE-1 kit amp in 1994. It came with Cetron 300B's which worked beautifully until I replaced them with Psvane Acme 300B's about a year ago. Keeping the Cetron's as backup.
I have modded, and installed many upgrade parts in this amp, over the years, but I must say these Psvane Acme 300B's sound great, and seem to sound better every day. Also upgraded the driver 6SN7's to Acme's as well.
My SE-1 drives my Klipschorn/Volti speakers with ease and grace. With a good recording, it is scary how fine, and authoritative, one watt or so, can sound.
@jimintallySomewhat similar setup in that I drive Khorns with Volti horns and other mods with custom build 300B's using Acme, no desire to further upgrade with either of these components.
I recently purchased one of only 2 Don Sachs 300b class A amps he has made, and the only one with custom wound CineMag IT transformers. Four 300B tubes. Four NOS Tungsol 6V6 from the 50's. And two 6sn7's. I've owned a lot of equipment in my life but, for the first time, I've got an amp that checks all the boxes. A truly great sounding piece. No need to look any more. This is it for me.
AudioAsylum.com has a good SET forum and tube diy. Great info can be had over there. I just changed out my EH Gold after 14 years, for some Gold Lions, nice improvement.
My SET monoblocks use 300B as the driver tubes. I have used Psvane ACME 300B and the new WE 300 B tubes. the WE tubes are better but you have to let them burn in for about 300 hrs before they reach their best.I use 845 tubes as my output tubes and use Psvane ACME 845s their also
Fun thread. And yeah, it would be great if there was a website where 300B owners could share, obsess and research information on various amps and brands and vintages of tubes.
BTW, Brent Jesse now includes the JJ 300Bs on his website and speaks pretty highly of them.
A comment about the Cary SE-1; yeah, that's a really nice amp. I have one back in my system right now and it sounds good.
I'm not trying to derail this thread, but I'll reiterate a point I've made elsewhere - I think it is essential to know what sound pressure level you are listening at, and by inference, how much power you're using. I have 93dB efficient JBL monitors and ~99dB efficient Altec Magnificent A7s in my system. I listen around 70dB most of the time. I've found that I can get by with 1.5 watts, and there's a pretty audible difference between the 300B and the vintage 45 tube. So I've switched over to Alan Eaton 45 monoblocks. I still think the 300B tube is a wonderful thing. I used to think "nothing could sound better than this". Now I understand why people talk about 2A3s and 45s and so forth. I love simple, low parts-count amplifiers.
The rectifier tube should be a consideration in 300B SET build.
In a traditional single-ended 300b amp the current draw is constant, from idle to full power. That means the voltage drop across the rectifier is constant too. If you are hearing differences, there can be only 2 causes; the first being that the amp isn't biased class A1 so at higher power levels the current varies (there is a class A2 and A3 operation where grid current is present at full power).
The second reason is you are hearing the difference due different voltage drops across the rectifier tube itself.
One advantage of tube rectifiers is that don't interact with the power transformer to create 'diode noise'. However, solid state rectifiers can be set up properly so the diode noise is properly taken care of; they can be as quiet as a tube rectifier. The nice thing about this is that they don't go downhill over time and hold up better. If this is done correctly it will outshine any tube rectifier. With DHTs you don't need to worry about cathode stripping since there's no cathode coating.
"In a traditional single-ended 300b amp the current draw is constant, from idle to full power. "
Ralph, the current draw is constant averaged over one cycle of the lowest frequency present. Otherwise the current is rising and falling with the input signal.
If the last capacitor in the power supply is properly sized the power supply voltage should stay constant even in the presents of changing current draw on the power supply.
The last cap in a power supply filter should be thought of as a bypass cap (like a cathode bypass cap) for the whole circuit.
For 300B tubes I like PSVANE 300B-T Mark II. Best tube in its price range. Not a fan of the silver coating but It supposedly makes the tube sound better.
Best transformers I have heard in a production amp are from Icon Audio hand wound by them in UK. Very resolving. But you need to do a coupling cap upgrade in the amp so you can actually hear how good they are if you buy a base model. Their upgraded amp versions come with Mundorf EVO SGO which sound good enough.
late to the thread, I see the topic has turned to rectifiers. I find the rectifier to be almost as important as the output tubes (and don't forget the input/drivers).
There are a lot of interchangeable rectifiers and I'm an ardent tube roller, but when it comes to rectifiers, I always end up back witht the tube that the amp was designed for (maybe a much better one, but the same tube).
Properly designed power supply + well chosen operating point will lead to much less sensitivity to the choice of rectifier tube in SET. The flip side is such design often needs a lot of space: multiple chokes with decent inductance each as opposed to just one choke used in many one box amp designs.
Ralph, the current draw is constant averaged over one cycle of the lowest frequency present. Otherwise the current is rising and falling with the input signal.
This of course is what filter capacitors are for.
If the last capacitor in the power supply is properly sized the power supply voltage should stay constant even in the presents of changing current draw on the power supply.
Actually if the design is competent, this can also be said of the filter capacitor at the output of the filter choke, assuming a capacitor input supply.
A typical 300B SET with zero negative feedback. Frequency response .The green line represents a simulated 8 ohm speaker.This was a Mastersound but is typical for the breed.Tube selection is unlikely to make much difference.
A typical 300B SET with zero negative feedback. Frequency response .The green line represents a simulated 8 ohm speaker.This was a Mastersound but is typical for the breed.Tube selection is unlikely to make much difference.
Technically I understand the point. The last transistor amplifier I owned was a very fine German make called Symphonic Line. To this day I haven’t any doubt that it produces superior FR graphs and probably every test bench measurement one would care to see compared with my 300b SET mono blocks.
Playing field changes to actually listening to music and the 300b amplifier went to where my Symphonic Line couldn’t follow or render. So,of course it depends on what one is seeking in their audio systems.
Yes you can certainly achieve good sound with a zero negative feedback SET but that will require more than a hint of two wrongs making a right.And some good luck.
Many SS and Class D amps also overdamp rather than underdamp speakers so they produce a dead flat frequency response but also sound dry and flat.
I believe all SETs should be fitted with a variable negative feedback control which will help you to better match them to different speakers.When I owned an Almarro 318B I had it modified to include one of them and it certainly helped .I never liked it with zero negative feedback and the default factory setting had slightly too much for my speakers.
I definitely agree that NFB amplifiers need appropriate matching speakers. If this is achieved then extraordinary sound quality can be the outcome. NFB adjustment is a very reasonable and useful idea.. It would widen the range of speakers deemed suitable for the amplifier.
In my audio system the 300b SET, 101D preamplifier and 6080 tube DAC are all zero NFB and the combination sounds remarkably emotionally engaging and sonically captivating. For sure the speakers are designed from the ground up to be very compatible with zero feedback amplification.
I'm using the Sophia Mesh 300b (2.5V version). Didn't see them mentioned. I think they are a great tube and is underpriced compared to the competition.
I think rectifiers are as important at the output tubes. For a GZ34 designed amp, you can't beat Mullard or Matsushita (same equipment). I'm currently using a radio shack that sounds excellent. Probably cost $2.99 new.
A typical 300B SET with zero negative feedback. Frequency response .The green line represents a simulated 8 ohm speaker.
@jtgofishFWIW the kind of speaker in the simulation is rarely used with SETs. They are low power and so speakers used with them tend to higher efficiency; also designed to expect a higher output impedance of the amplifier, with no expectation that the amp behave as a voltage source!
Most tube amps with zero feedback will act more like a power source than a voltage source. So the standard ’simulated speaker load’ is irrelevant if the user has his SET set up correctly.
In @charles1dad’s case, the speaker he is using was designed specifically for tube amps with higher output impedance and no feedback.
Since loudspeakers of all types typically have much wider frequency variation than amplifiers, the theory is that the tonality imparted by distortion figures more importantly than tonality induced by FR error. This is because the ear/brain system converts all forms of distortion to tonality and pays more attention to that as a result. SETs produce innocuous distortion so can be fairly neutral in this regard.
The brightness and harshness of traditional solid state is an example of this: you can’t measure it on the bench in terms of FR error, since the brightness is caused by distortion interpreted as a tonality. Its really hard to get away from this problem with amplifiers using feedback, since what usually happens is the the distortion vs frequency starts to rise somewhere near 1KHz due to a lack of Gain Bandwidth Product.
Ideally distortion vs frequency should be a flat line across the audio band, and with any zero feedback amplifier with sufficient bandwidth that’s exactly what you get. Alternatively this can be fairly easily accomplished with a self oscillating class D amplifier, since obtaining super high GBP values is fairly easy with them so feedback is properly supported across the entire audio band. See
When distortion rises with frequency, its because the feedback is decreasing with frequency and so distortion is going up. This usually does not show in THD figures; in effect sweeping this problem under the rug. So the actual distortion at higher frequencies where the ear is more sensitive can be quite a lot higher than the THD values suggest!
So while I’m not an SET fan by any stretch, picking on them due to FR errors due to output impedance is not the way to expose their real problems!
Thanks for that Ralph.Rising distortion with rising frequency due to decreasing feedback seems to make sense.I think some tweeters are going to expose that more than others.In my experience higher sensitivity ones like compression drivers seem to be much more fussy about amplifiers than less efficient ones using say soft dome tweeters.Or perhaps they are just masking this rising distortion less?
Perhaps the most beautiful and pure treble I have heard came from a zero feedback SET.It was a Kondo Ongaku though.
I think some tweeters are going to expose that more than others.In my experience higher sensitivity ones like compression drivers seem to be much more fussy about amplifiers than less efficient ones using say soft dome tweeters.Or perhaps they are just masking this rising distortion less?
@jtgofishI don't think so- for teh last 65 years audiophiles have been hearing this problem despite the measurement camp touting its all 'expectation bias'; IMO/IME the measurement guys that think this don't have the engineering knowledge to understand why its happening. This in particular with solid state since its inception.
It really doesn't seem to matter about the tweeter (tweeters with breakups will make it worse).
IME this is why tubes are still in business 65 years on from being declared 'obsolete'.
Fortunately class D is offering a solution; just in time since in the next 10 years tubes will get a lot harder to find.
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