While I have not heard the Tekton, I can say that matching components to speakers is a big deal, and there is probably a combination that will make them sound subjectively good. My current journey started with Heresy IIIs and a McIntosh integrated… sorely disappointing. Moved those out of the way for Cornwall IIIs and was only a little happier. A friend found a pair of 300b SET monoblocks for me, and “that has made all the difference” with the Cornwalls. A second set of 300b monoblocks are driving the Heresy IIIs in my dining room/office, and they are doing exactly what I hoped for from the beginning. Many will say, “duh.” But tuition is part of the deal. |
My Viking 62 is class one fishing machine. It weigh close to 100,000 pound and go 42 knot. Quit dilly dally with say this speaker so much better than that at bargain price point. Built the best and stock holding Putz thinking about value nobody but cheap or can’t afford stress about value. Who wants echo chanber big refrigerators box for ding dong. I have big Maggie in my gym and looking to get smaller Maggie with rel woofer for boat salon. Happy fish |
@charles1dad Hi Charles, you are correct and we don’t see much discussion either. The truth is, I really don’t believe most designers have delve deeply into series crossover networks.... I’ve done a fair amount of work and have come up with Truth’s of the differences. So, why use one or the other? Normally a designer uses series or parallel because they are more familiar with one over the other, but in reality depending on the drivers used, a series or parallel could be better than the other. So why? In theory there really is no difference, say using a speaker that has perfectly benign load, say a ribbon could get there, but in reality: Resistance and inductance...... Think of an impedance compensation circuit in a crossover....In a parallel crossover, we series a combination of cap, resistor and/or coil to flatten out a speakers impedance bump. Now on the crossover itself in a low pass on a woofer depending on first, second or third order, we would already add a combination of these parts in series. In parallel vs series, the part would be somewhat reversed. So, in one case or the other, the crossover part would work differently toward the natural inductance and resistance of the woofer itself. So depending on the woofers natural resistance and inductance, the odds are that with one or the other design, we could cut down on the parts by needing less compensation or a better impedance or phase with this driver vs the other type crossover. In my experience, its the drivers own impedance, inductance and capacitance that dictate which type crossover to use, just as frequency response dictates which order we would use. So one would not necessarily sound better than the other, but could depending on the drivers in a speaker in their entirety. I hope this is written in a way that makes sense for all, Tim |
Hello Tim, thanks for taking the time to address my inquiry with such a clearly written explanation. I have been told by some that with a series crossover the drivers are more directly connected to each other in terms of their contributing influence or sonic character. In contrast when using a parallel crossover it is easier to separate / isolate the innate characteristics of each driver. Or in other words less of an interacting relationship between the drivers. I don’t know if that is a practical reality or just theoretical. Charles |
First This is not precise but close on what your experience from your system Room = 40% Speakers 40% Equipment 20% Second if you have heard the klipsch Heritage speakers which are properly setup for the room they are in with its center sound stage and music dynamics and you are still looking for what you want. then Klipsch may not be for you. I have a pair of 42 year old Klipsch La Scala’s that I bough out of a garage. These speakers were beaten up badly as they probably were bar room speakers of dance hall speakers. Basically they looked like crap. I brought them home hooked up my system: Audrivana on a win 10 PC 16/44 Flack files Minidsp SHD - XLR out to a Crown XLI 1500 and RCA out to a 20 year old Velodyne Crown to la Scala’s And YES Klipsch Heritage speakers needs a sub There was a Wow moment, even my wife noticed it, as well as everyone else that hears them, for me they will be my last set of speakers Everyone is different, every room is different, when it is right you will know it, Good Luck and enjoy the music Dire Straits, You and Your Friend is a great way to test the Klipsch Line for sound stage and dynamics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQF669AZVvw&ab_channel=SoundSommelier Good Luck and enjoy the music |
I have Tekton Double Impacts as well as Klipsch Forte II. I have listened to both of them using my Primaluna Dialogue Premium separates. The major difference to me other than the bigger sound stage that the D.I's project' is the lack of mid bass warmth and punch in the Klipsch by comparison to the Tektons I use the Klipsch in a second system with Parasound separates. |
You have to try a vintage american speaker made prior to 1981 they are the most tube amp friendly speakers on the planet and if you can hear one prior to 1965 you will have even better sound with tube amps and make sure the speakers you are looking at are at least 8 ohms but a 16 ohm model would be even better yet. |
Ah the Tekton debate, seems never ending. I’ve never heard them so can’t comment. If the OP is looking for high efficiency speakers Omega’s referenced earlier in this thread are fantastic. The Build quality and cabinetry work is beautiful. Louis who is the owner is extremely knowledgeable and available to direct you to what would fit your needs the best. I’ve heard some of his single driver designs which is his claim to fame, really great speakers. I have a retro designed speaker, Dyna Ten’s. Many would scoff at the simplicity, 2 way design, paper cone, no crossovers but they sound fantastic with my Tube amp and a bonus is everyone comments on how beautiful they are. I’ve had 4 sets of towers prior from some high end speaker company’s and never have gotten a mention on their look unless it was to point out how big or intrusive they might have been. Give the Omega’s a look, extreme value relative to the build quality, personal touch you’ll get. |
OK let's head out into left field. I own a pair of factory custom rosewood Klipsch Heresys. They are very neutral sounding but not very engaging and surprisingly they need a little power to get jumping. So even though they have a high efficiency rating they still need a little power to sound their best. With low volume settings the balance drops away. My favorite tube driven loudspeaker has been the Triangle loudspeaker line. A very easy load. I have owned the Celius and now the Antals. I kick myself for letting the Celius slip through my fingers and I have repeatedly tried to buy them back from my buddy. Hard to find but great with tubes. |
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Cornwall IV owner here. I'd be super curious to hear a Tekton product. Boy, do they spark up hot debate. It seems one thing that might be a downside to them is build quality and construction. That said, the cost of admission is pretty reasonable. I'll hold my subjective views on their looks aside, as they are just that--subjective. As to the CW IV, this is not a squawky/shouty/shrill horn speaker. It must, however, be paired with the right source and amplification to hear their capabilities. Unfortunately, the CW IV is a bit cumbersome to just try out in the home. Even though dealers allow 30-60 days trials, getting them back to the dealer if you do not like them is more expensive given their size. Folks above are exactly right about the CW IVs amazing dynamics. It can be startling at first. Just as important to note is the size of the musical image they cast--with the right recordings they sound simply huge, delicate and delicious--those are qualities I had trouble getting with systems running smaller drivers. There really is something special about what those large drivers do, giving you big, full bodied but not bloated sound. And, folks are right, these are not bass mongers. They do have tuneful, lifelike bass. I do use an REL T9i to round out that lower octave. With the disclaimer that it's a video, check this out-- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXdQ_2oKN98 Having this in my room has given me shivers and smiles during late night listening. |
I feel greatly let down by my Double Impact speakers and the service I received from them. The women there didn't know anything about speakers and the owner was rude. When I received them I couldn't believe how disappointed I was and I paired them with a PrimaLuna EVO 300, a four-thousand dollar amp. I tried different placements but nothing and I listened to a ton of different kinds of music. Even BB King with a full horn section wasn't exciting. For me, the sound doesn't travel but rather it sounds like something is happening across the room. They're better at high volumes but there's still know definition in the sound. The highs aren't high and the bass isn't defined or low and they sound sort of like surround sound speakers. I'm selling them since it'll cost me $375 EACH to send them back and I purchased a set of Klipsch Forte 4's to replace them. And you can bet your life that the people at Tekton know that you won't send them back when you find out what it costs. Don't believe the hype, it's baloney. All those people reviewing them are getting incentives and to compare them to speakers worth 10 thousand dollars and more are snowing us. In the end, just believe your ears. Have a wonderful day, Phil |
@jbhiller glad to hear you are impressed and are really liking your cw4’s... there seems to be emerging agreement that the driver upgrades have really helped the cw4 outperform the earlier versions, addressing the prior gen’s shortcomings what are you driving your cw4’s with? it is amazing to me that despite the size of the speakers they still need some lower bass support from subs... but no big deal though, if it gets the music just right as for tektons, i heard a set in a friends home they are definitely ’live’ sounding, and like the larger klipsches they can present some aesthetic issues with their form factor/bulk... as i get older, silly as it sounds, i prefer smaller speakers, lighter amps, than i can handle without risking tweaking the back and making joints sore! no doubt both speakers have their ardent fans as well as critics... excellent gear does that... really pushes the buttons of users and thus engender love/hate, rarely indifference... |
Perhaps the lower bass issue has to do with the use of pleated paper surrounds on the woofer. These types of surrounds do a terrific job of damping vibrational energy of the cone, and thereby make them sound very clean in the higher frequencies that the speaker is called upon to reproduce, but, they also limit the excursion of the cone so that for any given diameter of cone, they cannot produce as much very deep bass. I happen to like the sound of woofers with pleated paper surrounds, but, I am not one to insist on gobs of very low frequency energy. My speaker runs twin 12" woofers with pleated surrounds. |
@jjss49 , two caveats with the CW IVs. 1. Source and amp matter more than I thought; 2. positioning is critical to getting them to potential. I was very surprised at this. I have three amp options: 1. Vincent SA-T7 pre -> Carver Crimson 275 2. Primaluna Dialogue HP Integrated 3. Elekit 300B No. 1 is my favorite. |
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Yes jjss49, I was a bit awestruck at the Crimson v. the Primaluna. The 300B has something special in its clarity, but not enough power--despite the CWIVs high sensitivity. I'll resist the urge to say too much as this isn't the thread for it. But, if anyone wants to hear a great amp under $3k, the Crimson is it. jjss49, didn't you try the Crimson too? I thought you did a quick review that was spot on--or I'm losing it! |
I might have already commented on this so forgive me if this is a repeat. I'm so grossly disappointed by my Double Impacts it's pitiful and I've tried everything imaginable to get them to work. My amp is a PrimaLuna EVO 300. I'm a musician (Local 802) and made hand-made mouthpieces for some of the greatest sax players who ever lived for almost forty years, am fairly respected and let me tell you, these speakers suck and if you believe people like Steve Guttenberg who gets all kinds of perks from the audio companies then you might want to reassess your source of information because ALL those guys get something in return for their reviews. Several of these guys said that the DI's are as good as speakers costing 30K! Do you believe that? When I called Tekton to ask for help, Eric Alexander was rude to me before I could even get a work in and told me to return them but ALAS, it costs $385.00 to return EACH speaker! So, in reality, if they cost that much to send them to me then they're really only a $2300 speaker. So I'm dumping them and have already bought a pair of Klipsch Forte 4's. If you can't audition a speaker, then don't buy it. |
@jbhiller I'll resist the urge to say too much as this isn't the thread for it. But, if anyone wants to hear a great amp under $3k, the Crimson is it. yes indeed, i still have mine, it is part of the rotation so to speak |
@philbarone, Did you listen to the Klipsch Forte before you bought them? Do you have them yet? It's crazy how people hear things differently. I had the DIs and have since moved on but would not describe them how you did at all and quite liked them. I also think the "as good as 30k speakers" is overblown for sure. I would like to get my hands on the CW4 or possibly the Forte 4 at some point. What did you have before the DIs? Not fight picking just curious. I see you have them for sale on Audiogon! Too funny. May have wanted to wait till they sold to post the above. |
@jjss49 got spatials recently, which are excellent but still not really proper flea watt amp candidates... ugh... Interesting, I recently got a Clayton S-40 amplifier and have been very interested the Spatial line of speakers. The 'new' Spatial M3 Sapphire will start shipping in June. Humble apologies to the OP for not exactly keeping with the subject matter. So little is written or known of the Spatial brand, especially the newer models. |
I currently own Tekton DI's and Viking Acoustic Grande Voix dual horn speakers. The Viking are 98db and driven by a mono tube amp and pre-amp and a Lampi Pacific tube amp. Send me a private email if you want my opinion on Tekton vs a Horn. I do not want to publish on this general forum out of respect for each speaker maker. |
I recently received my Tekton DI's and am utterly dismayed by how they sound when compared to the press they get. First, they're not a three-thousand dollar speaker, they're more like a twenty-three hundred dollar speaker when you take off the shipping and if you want to return them, in my case it's $385 each. I find with my PrimaLuna EVO 300 they don't project, lack clarity, lack lows, lack dynamics and they almost sound like surround sound speakers, okay for a restaurant or department store and if you listen to muzak. Also, the recording must be excellent or they're flat and generic but on really good recordings some people may find them okay but not great unless you've been listening to like a hand-held radio. I've been in the music business forty years and let me tell you what happens. A company puts some money behind a mediocre product with advertising, gets a few fans to feel loyal, maybe with perks, gets a bunch of inexperienced customers behind it that think it's god's gift and gives incentives to the knucklehead reviewers and it sells like crazy but they always peter out, always. Oh, and the customer service at Tekton sucks the big one. I didn't mind waiting 3 1/2 months but when I thought I was doing something wrong the owner at Tekton became defensive and combative. They don't return emails or phone calls. It's a mess. But, let's not forget, Eric Alexander IS a drummer so maybe we should excuse him.. Aside from sounding like a maniac today (forgive me and thank you very much) let me make one suggestion, DON'T buy a speaker unless you demo it. Now, does that make any sense? |
I've typically come to know that the people with strongest opinions about the best and worst in audio are the ones to run from. It means there is something very particular they value and have found and need to tell the world about it. I've found it's rarely of much interest or relevance to me. I remember a digital amp that was really hot a couple years ago. Guys were selling big tube systems, doing handstands, preaching about this amp. I bet less than 20 percent of them still own it today. I recall if someone didn't like the amp they were told it wasn't broken in- or they had the wrong power cable- or either didn't have it turned on all the time. I tried it and it was crap. Luckily it was returnable. The variety of gear and personal tastes never ceases to amaze me. I'm suspicious that there are investors that pop up in these forums. Almost like a nerd version of a social media influencer that tries to steer people. Maybe like term limits, Audiogon should have post limits. I've seen little value from many of the high post types- some fun community for sure but less in the way of the knowledge that they should have. I suppose they post more than they listen. |
Phil, It sounds like you have something seriously plaguing your system. I find the Double Impact is pretty neutral. Sort of gives you what you throw at it. I'll admit I have replaced the capacitors and resistors in my crossovers and did some cabinet treatment and now they sound more open and refined. Im driving mine with Primaluna Dialogue Premium separates that's why I figured I would comment. Changing the 2 center 12AU7's in your Evo 300 changes the sound considerably if you haven't tried that already. But you describing them sounding that bad is odd. I hope you figure it out |
Okay everybody, Not sure anyone cares but I do :)! I pulled the trigger on a pair of Forte iv's. This was after extensive listening (3 or 4 extended sessions with music I know) to the Fortes and Cornwall iv's, both with Mcintosh electronics. For me, it came down to the bass, which I thought was tighter sounding on the Forte's. Also, the Cornwall wall of sound was just too much for me and I thought the soundstage depth was slightly better with the Forte iv's. So, got the Forte's home about a week ago. Running them with a CJ LP66S amp and CJ 17LS2 and Don Sachs DS2 preamps. Front end is PS Audio Memory Transport and Mojo Audio EVO B4B DAC. I like the bass, but it is not as tight as my Thiel CS5i's. Not a problem; this gets to essentially bass reflex of the Fortes versus the acoustic suspension of the Thiels. Like the soundstage width but it is not as deep as the Thiels. The Thiels are more coherent but that is a trade-off for the dynamics, I think. but could be wrong? There is more detail with the Thiels but that is a tradeoff with the Thiels being too polite. The Fortes are almost too much in the treble, while the Thiels are too polite. In my opinion, do not play poor recordings with the Forte's! The CJ preamp tones down the treble energy, but it sacrifices that last bit of aliveness coming with the DS2. My room is about 35 X15 and the Forte's can fill it better than the Thiels. So, I just turned 70 and am starting a new journey. Any thoughts, comments, suggestions? Thanks for listening, Dsper
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I just picked up a brand new pair of Forte 4’s today. I used to own the 3’s. I had them around 2 years but sold them. The only nit I would pick with the 3’s is that I thought they could have been a little more “refined”, I currently have a pair of JBL L100 classics, that I like a lot too (sold a pair of Martin Logan 11a to keep them) I like listening to rock and the like, and the JBL’s do that better than the Martin Logan’s. (And the depth of the ML became an issue too when moving them in and out). So I’m looking forward to see how these sound over the weekend. |
dsper, this doesn't address your Tekton/Klipsch question, but may relate to the Thiels. In my experience charles1dad is absolutely correct, "So most likely complex crossovers probably siphon off more amplifier power." For years I owned a pair of Duntech speakers. They were rated at 90 dB, but had very complex first order crossovers designed to maintain time and phase coherency. That would be similar to your Thiels. Dunlavy recommended at least 100 wpc, with 200 "for musical enjoyment". Over the years I tried a wide variety of amp types and power ratings. I finally settled on Parasound JC-1 monos, rated at 800 wpc into the Duntech 4 ohm load. They taught me about complex crossovers.
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