Like many of you, I have been pondering purchasing these speakers but am very curious about the unusual tweeter array. I asked the smartest speaker person that I know (he is a student of Sean Olive) about the design and below is what he had to say.
"In theory it could work, but the driver spacing means that the crossover point would need to be very low. He is using the SB acoustics tweeter which is 72mm in diameter, center to center on the outside opposing drivers is around 5.7 inches, which is about 2400Hz. This means that combing would stop between 1/4 to 1/2 of the wavelength (between 1200-600Hz) is where the outside tweeters should start playing nice with each other. Since he is not using low enough crossover points he has created a comb filtering monster. Now while it's not the great point source that was promised, it's no worse than most line arrays and the combing will average itself out given enough listening distance.
The MTM spacing on the other hand is ridiculous. Hopefully he is cutting the top end off on one of those midrange drivers to avoid combing."
I’m in complete agreement on the fact that "no speaker can meet everyone’s tastes." In fact, I’d say that if true, that would be a travesty in my opinion. I am personally happy that there is not one but there are many! If there are those that believe there is One Speaker to Rule Them All....more power to them. I’m cool with that, too. Just don’t lose the ring. :)
What I don’t understand is how you can say " The DI might not be ideal for those midrange junkies that like a laid back sound (harbeth ls3/5a) but might be perfect for home theater and music that has slam."
Have you done extensive listening of the DIs yourself? And by extensive, I mean extensive. This is the very area, among others that the DIs absolutely shine. Your statement is confounding to me, as it probably is to many who own the Double Impacts and have gotten to know them over time.
The DIs are laid back if one is feeding them laid back music. They rock if they are being fed Rock. They dance if being fed EDM. They boogie and bop if being fed Jazz. They ooze soul when playing SOUL. And they get downright blue when belting out the Blues. These are one of the most open to what’s ahead of them speakers I’ve had the pleasure of listening to.
Yesterday morning I was up early (and thankfully before everyone else in the household) so I was able to spend an hour and a half uninterrupted and without any of the excessive ambient noise so prevalent once the troops are on the move. I listened to Steve Coleman’s "Invisible Paths: First Scattering" album. It was his first solo album and is 1 hour and 12 minutes of pure unadulterated solo sax. There isn’t anywhere for a system to hide with such a solo instrument performance. My system, with the DIs at the end of it performed astonishingly and amazingly well.
@seanheis1 you mention the DI’s might not be ideal for midrange junkies and that they are for movies and music with slam.
I suggest that you read again what I said. It was a Harbeth owner who found them too forward for his taste and had a challenge with the center image in his specific room. I hear the same thing a lot with the KEF LS50. Folks loving them at first and then eventually tiring over the forward image. We all have different tastes, rooms, and gear so I expect folks' mileage to vary and I like to hear folk's experiences, good or bad so thanks for sharing yours.
I believe that if there is a return situation, Tekton eats the send shipping cost since it was "free."
All the more reason why buyer should pay return shipping costs, Sheesh; do people want the guy to pay YOU for the privilege of auditioning his speakers???
I agree with the common sense approach of Swampwalker and Sebrof in regard to buyer paying for the return shipping cost of products auditioned in one’s home. I do believe that this would have the benefit of narrowing the field to those seriously considering purchase vs those who just want to hear them with no intention of buying. As was written earlier by bullitt5094 , the buyer should have some "skin in the game". Charles
Without getting into the original arguments about comb filtering, this measurement of the Enzo XL from Stereophile implies Tekton is not above optimistically rating the sensitivity.
Looks like Bose is making a comeback, except these new ones are uuuugly!
On the sensitivity numbers, Tekton is 6 db off the actual sensitivity., and they should be embarrassed by that. A noisy square box with low budget drivers, what an awful design that they are charging way too much for.
Someone that raves about Totem Rainmakers and is poo pooing on a speaker he has never heard before? that is just plain laughable. Why are the inexperienced so quick to make judgement?
Jed, who makes Clearwave speakers (I have the Duet 6 monitors) lists his speaker at 85db. When I asked him if they were too inefficient, he told me that they should play at around 87db in room but he felt that he should simply state the tested figure. He went on to say that lots of speaker designers fudge their specs when it comes to efficiency and to not be too concerned about it. In room response is what you should be concerned with.
There are several reviews falling into your lukewarm category including one person who returned the speakers not because he disliked them, but because they were not that much better than his current ones. Read through the extended threads and you will see.
As regards your comments that all posts are "fanboys or haters" this is the nature of modern day threads. When a product becomes popular, other competitors jump onto the thread and start posting degrading comment to try and boost their own products. On the AVSForum site there is a speaker builder who constantly derides the speaker then, as fast as possible, gets his website URL on the thread.
Others just want to post and show off their knowledge even though they know nothing about the product itself.
Why I bought the speakers, and what you need to know, is that those who do, UNIFORMLY say good things about the product. This is the bottom line.
AND, I refer you to my post above concerning "cheap speakers." There are no cheap speakers in the DI and those chosen are pro audio drivers of substantial ability. I would rather have these in my ongoing set than specialty items that cannot be purchased in case of need on the retail market. For 50 years I have been buying pro audio equipment and it is ALWAYS as good or better than home designs.
Call Eric and see if he isn't the kind of professional who can help you make the right choice. Best to get him at the right time as he can be overworked.
FYI, have recently purchased and returned an expensive Class D amplifier. This was bought on the basis of a well-known thread touting its abilities. My experiences were nothing like those described on that thread. Even went so far as to obtain a recommendation for the product on another site. Still, the amp was of modest capabilities and became defective in 5 days.
SO, you can't always trust threads -- even established ones. But I believe you can trust honest owner reviews if you can identify them. It's the innate problem with the Internet Audio industry.
@stfoth I can't see anyone among the current owners who are actively posting 'jumping on you.' The Impact Monitor thread OP recently returned his. I wished him the best (and so have others)...I hope he finds what works best for him. There is no one speaker for all of us. That's healthy for our hobby.
All the best in figuring out what will work out for you needs. Hope Eric is able to steer you in the right direction and you are happy with whatever choice you make.
Those speakers are just plain ugly, at least Bose had some fashion sense. And being off on the sensitivity by one or two db's is acceptable. 6 is false advertising. And the design is also a squarish box with several strong resonance peaks, so says stereophile's measurements.
You can tell by the immediate personal attacks that my critique can't be debated. Ugly. False advertising. Econo box performance. At least you can pay extra to put a grill on that ugly mug.
you have never heard them. Econobox performance. Please! That's why there is a Tekton thread with 2K posts within a couple months. They must really suck. You just sound stupid.
What does the Enzo Xl speaker have anything to do with the title of this thread.?
I personally have measured my DI speakers at 95.3 DB with a one watt input at 1 meter at the Industry standard frequency of 1K in my listening room.
I had 2 different pairs of Zu audio speakers in the past and I performed efficiency measurements on them in 2 completely different rooms and the end result was way less than the 101DB that Zu claims.
"I would expect if someone actually bought the Tektons and posted about them being the worst speakers the poster ever heard and such, that person would be "challenged" by others"
If you or anybody else actually bought and gave any Tekton speaker a honest shot and then decided they didn't like them for whatever reason and then utilized Eric's return policy,I would personally respect that persons decision because I know there is no perfect speaker,amp or other one piece of gear that every single person is going to like.
If you give me all details about what you are looking for in a speaker taking in consideration your room size,how close do you sit,music preferences,sonic preferences,volume levels,and other gear. I probably could give you my opinion coming from experience of many yrs of listening to all kinds of gear.
Speakers are a very personal choice so it won’t take long to have others share their negative experiences. I just hope it is after spending time and not just a demo. No complaints here if someone doesn't like them after a long listen. I know it took me about a week to fully appreciate what I had. I recently invited a picky friend over fully expecting him to trash the DI’s and put me in check but it didn’t happen. Expect a smaller reviewer to get a pair soon and go against the grain for increased reputation/noterity. That or they genuinely won’t like them. IMO the greatest strength of the product is the value and the looks have really grown on me.
Insult an Audio Note product to a fan boy if you really want to deal with conflict.
Yes I did mention the Brilliance or Electron for you on another thread,
After reading your preferences and other info in your post,I'm going to recommend the Electron or the DI monitor on proper stands since you already have a sub.
Even though I have never heard the Brilliance,I don't think either one of us would like that one,It doesn't have the tweeter array that is the key to getting the detailed smooth,never in your face,magic of this design. I believe either speaker would do just fine at 1 foot from the back wall and pointed straight ahead with no toe in needed. These Tekton speakers are very forgiving in placement unlike most other speakers.They will sound nothing like the average kplisch horn speaker that you have to be 20ft away from to get coherent sound.
As you know I have the DI's and I normally sit 10ft away in a 20x25x9ft room that has our open kitchen on one side.I recently did a experiment and moved my speakers 1ft from back wall and I moved my listening chair to 7 ft from the speakers.The sound was just as good in this more nearfield listening position as I get at 10ft but I would be to close to my tv so it was just a experiment. The DI's would be too big for your room I would think though,I haven't tried mine in my 2nd smaller system in a spare bedroom I'm more interested in the Electron or monitor for that room but I'm in no hurry.
Hopefully you could talk to Eric when he has a moment away from designing the "super 1812 triple mega Ulf's".
The Dis can be placed quite close to the wall if you place some kind of absorbent material behind the two ports. I am using custom built wall panels that do the trick because they remove first-order reflections that fight with/confuse the direct speaker's output ("Muddies"). Drapes or a pillow also work.
The DI tweeter array is remarkable for a clean yet smooth result and allows for realistic images at any volume level. My setup is in a fairly large room and the bass response is so good down to 20 hz that I roll a little off through the plugin ApQualyzr. SACDs sound incredibly accurate for bass timbres - orchestral double basses punch very hard.
KDude66:
Your measurement of 95db at 1 watt confirms Eric's 98db figure at 2.83; the difference between the two is supposed to be 3 db.
Regardless, the DIs are very efficient and you can plug any amp into them and hear the power.
Mofojo, more insults from the cheap seats, at least come up with some good ones! My critiques don't require ownership. They are as ugly as sin. They employ false advertising in the specs. The cabinet's squarish design is resulting in expecting cabinet resonances. Stereophile measures 4 big peaks. That's poor speaker design, plain and simple.
I would never buy such a collection of compromises. The comb filtering thing is ridiculous in a modern speaker. $3000 is a complete rip off, but Bose sold junk to suckers for many years before people got wise to those little cube home theater nonsense speakers.
I expect in a couple of years, unless Tekton gets serious about speaker design, the latest flavor of the month will be up for sale in the used marketplace in droves. Too bad that marketing and the lemming instincts of the internet herd can cause such a waste of money.
From Ranker: "
Music is often the best way to express happiness or joy over something you can't stop smiling about. Most happy songs have to do with a relationship, but others celebrate the simple happiness of feeling good in day to day life. This is a ranked list of the best songs about happiness, as voted on by music fans like you."
The part about 'celebrating the simple happiness of feeling good in day to day life' resonates.
I did say reviews showed Tekton’s were off on sensitivity. I never said they were bad.
The SB Acoustics ring radiators are highly regarded, and not really that budget, especially 7 at a time! Also, I find the design pretty interesting. It is a near ideal solution of the coaxial speaker problems, if well executed.
I don’t like their looks, but I think most of the theoretical criticisms lobbed at them are unfair. They’re definitely worth a listen to, especially in a real listening room, I suspect they’ll punch far above their cost, especially in the realms of dynamic range and detail/clarity at the listening location, an area where most speakers at any price won't perform as well.
That said, not sure I’d pair them with flea-powered tube amps either. :) Good 100 W amp would be my personal starting point, without hearing them.
I also see you have a pair of Totem Rainmakers. They must blow away those crappy ole Tektons! Wanna talk about bad measurements! Only someone who doesn't care about measurements would buy them so I am a little confused? The DIs measure very flat in my room btw. Flatter then KEF 201/2 which is known to be a poster child for accuracy. You have no idea if the DI has comb filtering and I am doubtful you understand it.
Yep, presently I have Rainmakers, 3 different Tannoy models, and some Pioneer and Paradigm speakers. None of them look as ugly as the Tekton box though. But hey, whatever floats your boat I guess.
So your off of the measurement kick now that you've been called out? No one ever said they were pretty. I think they look pretty obnoxious but sure as hell don't sound like econo box speakers. But hey if form over function is your thing ...
If that was directed at me I don't see the dots you are trying to connect.
I've always (starting months ago) said they were interesting and I would probably recommend listening to them based on design and measurements. I've also said that one of the innovations was IMHO getting the price so low for the parts quality.
I have not however said I liked their looks, had listened to them or that they had remarkable efficiency.
Honestly this discussion has generated a tremendous amount of emotional energy I find a little left out from. I'm not all that passionate either way.
Mofo, no I'm not off the measurement kick. If a company can't be trusted to give accurate specs to their products, than I wouldn't trust them period. Send them your wallet if you want, they are not for me.
I am looking for an end game speaker, and the Sierra Tower is on the short list. Ascend measures their products carefully, among the other things they do so well for the customer. But I'll bow out as I've made my points for anyone looking for the pros and cons of speakers by Tekton.
I've explained the 7 tweeter array in many threads including the beginning posts in this thread,I know the crossover points and every measurement you could ever think of,I know how they are wired from upgrading all crossover parts to even better parts then the upgraded pair has.
What I'm saying is this if you call and don't get your questions answered I will do my best to give the skinny coming from my knowledge of this speaker.
Remember I have no skin in this Tekton game I'm just a happy owner that knows a lot about this speaker and others,I'm a highly technical guy and I can't keep myself from learning but at the end of the day so to speak "It's all about the Music for me"and all this equipment that we talk about is just a means to a end for musical playback in my home.
Also notice I did'nt mention anything about a patent or that the Tekton design makes every other design obsolete,I will leave that up to the Manufacturer to say.
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