Tekton Double Impact & Comb Filtering


Like many of you, I have been pondering purchasing these speakers but am very curious about the unusual tweeter array. I asked the smartest speaker person that I know (he is a student of Sean Olive) about the design and below is what he had to say.   

"In theory it could work, but the driver spacing means that the crossover point would need to be very low.
He is using the SB acoustics tweeter which is 72mm in diameter, center to center on the outside opposing drivers is around 5.7 inches, which is about 2400Hz. This means that combing would stop between 1/4 to 1/2 of the wavelength (between 1200-600Hz) is where the outside tweeters should start playing nice with each other.
Since he is not using low enough crossover points he has created a comb filtering monster. Now while it's not the great point source that was promised, it's no worse than most line arrays and the combing will average itself out given enough listening distance.

The MTM spacing on the other hand is ridiculous. Hopefully he is cutting the top end off on one of those midrange drivers to avoid combing."

seanheis1

Showing 6 responses by craigl59

Speaking of math and the oft-stated "cheap speakers" in the DIs...

Have been using the DIs for three months and after two, decided to purchase some backup speakers for those unfortunate blowups that might occur.

So, I checked carefully on the Internet and purchased the exact same speakers Eric uses at the best available price -- but just a few, of course. The SB Acoustics ring tweeters are the most expensive at $57 apiece, the midrange at about $50 and the woofer at about $40.

So, you add them all up and the best price for the 22 drivers in two speakers is right at $1158 -- this is 39% of the speaker cost.

Now those of you who keep touting the "cheap speakers" line, tell me another premium speaker that spends 39% of its retail cost on the speakers. Does Wilson's Sasha (say, $28k) contain speakers in it that cost $11,000?

BTW, if you actually examine the DI speakers as I have, they are well made.

But, then, so many of the posts deal with theory, speculation, manipulation, and dogma. When I purchased the DIs I made the decision on the basis of the large number of owners who uniformly expressed delight with the sound.

Guess what? We're all still doing that.

Kdude66:
Yes, you are right about the large room and classical feeds with dynamic changes that could generate very disruptive bursts.
As a classical musician, I sit in front of a large piano every day and once took the time to measure its decibel level. Loud passages are around 95 db at the keyboard side. But they do not sound as loud as 95 db of recorded music because there is no distortion/noise. As I know most of you recognize, the less noise in your system, the more you can listen to louder and louder feeds.
AND, Kdude, everyone should read your second post at the start of this thread. It is the clearest explanation I have seen yet explaining Eric's minimum mass theory. Congrats!

stfoth:

There are several reviews falling into your lukewarm category including one person who returned the speakers not because he disliked them, but because they were not that much better than his current ones. Read through the extended threads and you will see.

As regards your comments that all posts are "fanboys or haters" this is the nature of modern day threads. When a product becomes popular, other competitors jump onto the thread and start posting degrading comment to try and boost their own products. On the AVSForum site there is a speaker builder who constantly derides the speaker then, as fast as possible, gets his website URL on the thread.

Others just want to post and show off their knowledge even though they know nothing about the product itself.

Why I bought the speakers, and what you need to know, is that those who do, UNIFORMLY say good things about the product. This is the bottom line.

AND, I refer you to my post above concerning "cheap speakers." There are no cheap speakers in the DI and those chosen are pro audio drivers of substantial ability. I would rather have these in my ongoing set than specialty items that cannot be purchased in case of need on the retail market. For 50 years I have been buying pro audio equipment and it is ALWAYS as good or better than home designs.

stfoth:

Exactly.

Call Eric and see if he isn't the kind of professional who can help you make the right choice. Best to get him at the right time as he can be overworked.

FYI, have recently purchased and returned an expensive Class D amplifier. This was bought on the basis of a well-known thread touting its abilities. My experiences were nothing like those described on that thread. Even went so far as to obtain a recommendation for the product on another site. Still, the amp was of modest capabilities and became defective in 5 days.

SO, you can't always trust threads -- even established ones. But I believe you can trust honest owner reviews if you can identify them. It's the innate problem with the Internet Audio industry.

stfoth:

The Dis can be placed quite close to the wall if you place some kind of absorbent material behind the two ports. I am using custom built wall panels that do the trick because they remove first-order reflections that fight with/confuse the direct speaker's output ("Muddies"). Drapes or a pillow also work.

The DI tweeter array is remarkable for a clean yet smooth result and allows for realistic images at any volume level. My setup is in a fairly large room and the bass response is so good down to 20 hz that I roll a little off through the plugin ApQualyzr. SACDs sound incredibly accurate for bass timbres - orchestral double basses punch very hard.

KDude66:

Your measurement of 95db at 1 watt confirms Eric's 98db figure at 2.83; the difference between the two is supposed to be 3 db.

Regardless, the DIs are very efficient and you can plug any amp into them and hear the power.


hifiman5:

Think that Eric's business model can be explained by considering the broad changes that have taken place in the cultural/musical/audio fields since the 1980s.

At this time there was a major shift in preference to visual over musical interest. All musical-related fields saw a downturn that affected certain areas first -- professionals in the field and retail establishments. At first, the tendency was for these areas to go high end -- there is still a small market for aficionados and these can be mined for a certain amount of time. Thus Fazioli pianos and Wilson speakers thrived.

The downturn has continued, however, and now it is impossible to find a grand piano dealer in most towns and hard-copy music and audio stores have gone the way of the dinosaur (yes, I know there are Best Buy stores but you know what they offer).

So, in this environment, Eric must offer a "budget" equivalent to high-end products at a fraction of the cost -- to attract new buyers who want the best but cannot (or will not) pay $30k.

This is exactly what he has done -- using the techniques described above. Here's my advice -- get your speakers from him ASAP as it will be difficult for Eric to justify the tremendous tensions and energy required for his business model over any length of time.

BTW, as a lifelong music historian, I can suggest that cultural shifts tend to move back towards musical preference in the mid parts of the century. SO, wait another 30 years or so and the broad picture might improve (LOL).