Like many of you, I have been pondering purchasing these speakers but am very curious about the unusual tweeter array. I asked the smartest speaker person that I know (he is a student of Sean Olive) about the design and below is what he had to say.
"In theory it could work, but the driver spacing means that the crossover point would need to be very low. He is using the SB acoustics tweeter which is 72mm in diameter, center to center on the outside opposing drivers is around 5.7 inches, which is about 2400Hz. This means that combing would stop between 1/4 to 1/2 of the wavelength (between 1200-600Hz) is where the outside tweeters should start playing nice with each other. Since he is not using low enough crossover points he has created a comb filtering monster. Now while it's not the great point source that was promised, it's no worse than most line arrays and the combing will average itself out given enough listening distance.
The MTM spacing on the other hand is ridiculous. Hopefully he is cutting the top end off on one of those midrange drivers to avoid combing."
Uh, Kenny, in fact by mentioning that you didn’t mention anything about a patent or the Tekton design, you are indeed mentioning it. But you probably knew that. It seems that you have a fascination for Tekton, and that is fine, everybody needs a hobby, but your opinions are therefore quite biased, as one can easily read. You seem to have an awful lot of time on your hands.
And as for James-w514, actually this thread was started by a non-owner researching Tekton, so if there is any Tekton thread a non owner should weigh in on, it would be this one. Fan boy owners can gush all they want over on the various Tekton owner threads, but you might get upset if you read critical comments here. So have a hanky nearby!
Make you go away? What is this, a school yard? Again your bias is showing, I am simply pointing it out as it's important as one weighs your many posts in this thread.
You think a non owner such as yourself spouting off about how ugly they are and measurements which you haven't seen and their appearantly Econobox performance which you just pulled out of thin air is helpful to anyone? Ohh and you've never heard them. You are trashing a mans bussiness and livelihood for no particular reason. I just don't get it. Your baseless pointless posts should be taken into account more than a guy who owns them, has had them apart replacing components and basically knows them inside and out?
I didn't pull any of that out of thin air. The measurements were done by Stereophile, and clearly show several cabinet resonance peaks, which Stereophile mentions. These resonances are the result of a rectangle cabinet with sides that vibrate. It would cost more for the manufacturer to properly brace the cabinet or use stiffer materials. The link was provided above by another poster, obviously going over the measurements was too much for fanboys.
Also in the Stereophile review, they found that the sensitivity number provided by the manufacturer was off by 6db. 1 or 2 decibels might be understandable, but a variance of 6 is either an alarming lack of quality control or false advertising. Fanboys might respond with silly insults, but it doesn't change the facts. And they are indeed ugly, but I will allow as to how beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Totem does not misrepresent their specs, not sure what you're talking about there, james. That's my only point, which you can't refute. Tekton is either flat wrong about the Enzo's sensitivity, or the quality control is badly lacking. Either way it reflects badly on Tekton. As does the many resonance issues with the cabinet. Flame on, fanboy.
james, you have no idea what my "education" may be with this hobby. I suggest you read more of my posts than the last week to see what I’ve owned previously. Parasound Halo, Paradigm Signature, etc. In the last year I got bored with my systems and sold most of it off to experiment with what’s out there these days.
And I’m talking about the Enzo speaker, James. Not sure why I have to keep reminding you. Perhaps you should try some of your ineffectual fanboy attacks on the poster that posted the Enzo link, since he’s the one that brought the Enzo into the discussion. But it’s fair to discuss more than one model in a Tekton thread. Only a fanboy would cry foul.
It is indeed tired and dated, but fanboys attacking anybody that has a critical opinion of their speakers or other items has a long tradition on audio forums, unfortunately. The first time I ran into this behaviour was on the Emotiva forum. It was somewhat like a cult over there.
Everything was fine while I was buying their products and reporting my joy, but as soon as I started finding the limits of their gear it was fanboy attack time. I noticed others who had similar views might even disappear from the forum. Ah well, hopefully Tekton can survive it if a small minority don't care for them.
213, It's not the fact that you are criticizing them. It's the fact you are beating on them like they owe you money and you have never heard them or any other Tekton for that matter. I am however getting somewhat of a kick from seeing what is gonna come out of your mouth next.
Mofo, I was not beating on them, 3 or 4 of you were beating on me(and I was responding to that) for daring to critique them. Name calling and personal attacks about me and my gear for goodness sakes. Instead of simply countering my points, which at least some of the members bothered to do eventually.
Note to self, never critique Tekton, not even in a thread so named.
213, we now have patented speakers that have made all other speakers obsolete. You may not poo-poo them and call them ugly! We need many more Tekton threads. The Tektonians have made Audiogon great again, deal with it. #MAGA
"with" not "wit" as above; must be a Freudian slip as I was thinking someone runnin' was perhaps, just might be a nit. Ok, I'll apologize now in advance, but I couldn't help thinking it. Best to you, happy listening...mikirob
213,
Ok this is the last time I'll respond. Your latest post looks like you are
trying to say you are being bullied for giving opinions on the speakers. Here
are excerpts from a few of your posts... Need a hanky?
"A noisy square
box with low budget drivers, what an awful design that they are charging way
too much for."
" Econo box
performance. At least you can pay extra to put a grill on that ugly
mug."
"But I'll bow out as I've made my
points for anyone looking for the pros and cons of speakers by Tekton." (this did not happen)
The comb filtering thing is ridiculous in a modern speaker. $3000 is a complete rip off, but Bose sold junk to suckers for many years before people got wise to those little cube home theater nonsense speakers. (you are assuming they have an issue with comb filtering, again never heard them)
“I expect in a couple of years, unless Tekton gets
serious about speaker design, the latest flavor of the month will be up for
sale in the used marketplace in droves. Too bad that marketing and the
lemming instincts of the internet herd can cause such a waste of money.” (so you are basically calling anyone that likes Tektons a Lemming / Sucker?)
This doesn't exactly feel like constructive criticism to me. If you heard them pretty sure you would change your tune but the fact that you haven't and are making such bullish claims tends to get on peoples nerves.
We all have a certain responsibility to these threads to report the truth of a product the best we can and pure "Speculation" without even listening or owning the product is really not a opinion that means anything substantial.
You always have to remember folks are reading these threads and they use these informed opinions to base their purchasing decisions.
I personally don't comment on any product unless I have actually listened to it or own it,Now I know I'm luckier than some in that being a member of a local audio club I get to listen,borrow and loan all kinds of top gear.
Disclaimer,I'm not just talking about this thread or only Tekton speakers,I'm talking in general terms.
"I'm a big Tekton Fanboy! But discoursing wit folks like 213runnin is huge waste of time, he is a Troll. Best, mikirob"
I find the 10 or 15 guys that are screaming their heads off over and over and over how great Tekton is ,is a major turn off.Personally I found what the designer /owner of Tekton wrote on this site made him come across as someone I would never do business with,BS and full of himself.The speakers IMO do looks like something I would make in my little wood shop.Even if they sounded good thats a disqualifer for me as Im not looking at that in my audio room everyday.The drivers used are cheap or cheaper.The line fell on its face at the Los Angeles show.The specs (what little there are) are uuum average at best.You cant even go directly to Tekton to audition because they have no listening show room,thats comical.The attacks of Tenton are only brought on by their claims "people trade in 30K speakers to buy these"..oooh yea,I believe that.To say all other speaker designs are now obsolete,pure hogwash.IMO the maker has brought a lot of this on himself but to call a member of this forum a troll simply because hes not buying the BS Tekton is dishing is shamefull
I may sell my DI speakers soon and buy a pair of their Ulf's or mini Ulf's I haven't decided but I'm wandering if you would like to buy my DI's if I do sale.
"call a member of this forum a troll simply because hes not buying the BS Tekton is dishing is shamefull"
missioncoonery, shameful is with one l but that aside, whether you agree our not, you meet the troll criteria. Not because of expressing your opinion but because of the choice of tone and style. We can agree to disagree without bashing each other. I hope someone who really loves you surprises you by giving you a pair of Tekton DIs on your next birthday.
Tektons are like a box of chocolates.. until you try them you never know what ure gonna get.
Exactly, and that is the main problem with Tekton speakers. Forget about the plain cabinet and low budget looking woofers. Forget about the bombastic ad copy that Tekton chooses to use on their site. Forget about the comb filtering issues. Forget about the badly vibrating cabinet that Stereophile discovered.
Tekton will not tell you how their speakers perform across the frequency range. Oh, they'll tell you a given model will go from 30-30,000 Hz, but not how close it stays to flat across that range. And as Stereophile found out, the Enzo measured REALLY badly. Will a given model have a big mid range dip as the Enzo does? Will it color the sound to the extent that a given piece of music sounds completely different? Who knows.
I suspect your reservations (BS meter) are worth following. Why not wait and see how Tekton fairs over time.
When Zu took guitar cabinet speakers from Eminence and then made a full range speaker by claiming small mods to these designs can work full range (instead of what they were designed for) there was a huge buzz. Zu was the darling of these forums. As a musician I know how little the drivers for guitar cabinets cost and how the designs have more in common with PA than high fidelity but for sure I can see how these high sensitivity drivers are ideal for tubes as most guitar amp heads are tube driven. So my background knowledge raised alarm bells but I recognized that Zu had some advantages with tubes.
I recommend to wait. There is always a buzz when there is something completely new especially an unconventional approach (7 tweeters!). I read somewhere that the DI sounds like a panel but with much higher sensitivity. This seems to be what they bring to the table and it makes sense that comb filtering from a large star pattern of tweeters is going to sound more like a panel than a conventional design with one tweeter.
So my guess, not having heard them, is that they will sound like a panel but with a high sensitivity that allows them to be driven by a modest tube amplifier. Like Zu I see this as fulfilling a niche for those who like modest tubes but are looking for something more dynamic than is typically available in audiophile soeaker designs which tend to subscribe to low distortion and full range flat frequency response and even dispersion (the kind of things Stereophile's Atkinson would focus on).
I invite anyone that questions the performance to put their system of equal or double the value up for comparison against the modest Pass Labs X250.5 & Double Impact pairing I have in my listening room at the moment. If you are passing through the BC interior from Vancouver, Calgary or anywhere this is an open invite. Postulating about gear is nice and all but let’s do some real world testing and comparisons. I’ve always got pricey speakers and amps around to demo against them as well. I would welcome some criticisms at this point. Worst case scenario you will leave with your doubts and reservations confirmed while talking shop with a fellow audio nut.
Asking how they fair over time is is a great question that I wonder about myself. With the ever changing models it is hard to know. So much has come and gone in this silly hobby over the decades.
an invite for an in home demo with and against different amps and speakers..can't ask for more than that.. that might lead to a Buy and Try.or that Fava Bean dinner
We now have Michael Wright at Stereo Times pulling the Wilson Sasha's out of his rig for the Double Impacts because they perform to a higher level. The fact is... I've had multiple people to call me and email me to inform me of the fact the DI's sound superior to the Wilson Sasha's.
Here's a quote from the REAL Double Impact Audiogon thread from a few days back:
"Just to be clear on the statements I made about the DI's and my Sasha's a couple of months ago; the DI's, overall, did outperform my Sasha's. From the mid-bass up through their hi frequency performance, they were more enjoyable and more musically engaging than the Sasha's. The level of performance and achievement, especially in the all important lower mid-range to upper bass region of the DI's, is exemplary. Eric Alexander and his team should be lauded for what they have accomplished. To gain this level of performance is commendable for a speaker at any cost, but at $3,000??? It should have been interesting, sitting around the Tekton board-room table and hearing Eric discussing the lofty design goals he had for the DI's, then share with his confidantes that he could do it all for around $3,000 retail. I'm sure somebody snickered and said "Yeah right". All I can say is interested parties should get their speakers soon before Tekton figures out what they have on their hands and puts their speakers thru a well deserved pricing restructure." - Michael Wright
I also received a note from a client on Monday informing me of the fact the Impact Monitor outperformed the B&W D3's. A month ago a client called me to inform me the Impact Monitors has bested the Vanderseetn 7's.
We're doing something really special here and this is audio news. There's literally thousands of loudspeakers to choose from these days and the lowest common denominator is this: do you want to hear every subtle nuance and detail contained within your source material (music) or simply most of it..?!
So it sounds like a professional reviewer prefers the DI over the
Wilson Sasha, and that's fine. I may or may not agree with his taste when it comes to speakers and gear. What I don't get is why Tekton is withholding the frequency response graph of their speakers, so prospective customers can see how the speakers compare with their own, or with other brands.
Tekton is withholding this information because they don't want it known, there is no other reasonable explanation. And to suggest that all other speaker brands don't give every subtle nuance is just more over-the-top ad copy.
It does sound like the DI are amazing value. Cutting out the retailer must be a big part of it. A $6000 speaker sold direct from factory could be easily $3000 as no dealer cut.
I recall Energy Pro 22 punched well above their weight but that is three decades ago. It is nice to see this challenger but I wonder if factory direct is the way of the future? I keep seeing audiophile stores closing down...is the old bricks and mortar model broken?
If James_514 says they are better value than ATC SCM 40 then I believe it. I actually would not expect ATC with an everything in-house built approach can compete with cost effective boxes filled with off the shelf low cost drivers sold factory direct - at least not on price or value and may be the quality difference is just not enough for many to justify the extra expense. I bought my large cinema screen factory direct and it was indeed tremendous value over a Stewart screen so I am not at all averse to the direct model. Bring it on!
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