And when you buy your own pair you can tell us all about it.
Kenny. |
The crossover point for the 6 outer tweeters is very low at 480hz and the center tweeter is 10k to 30k playing as a super tweeter.
No combing effect that I have measured or heard on my pair,Actually they are the best measuring speaker that I've owned in 35 yrs in this hobby.
Kenny.
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Sean,
There is some confusion in how the DI's are configured related to crossover points and the "unusual" driver configuration maybe this will help give a better understanding.
Even though these are tweeter transducers the six of them that form the circle, based on what frequencies they handle, radiate acoustically as if they were one six inch mid-range driver. The transducer in the middle is being used as a tweeter and handles the high end frequencies up to 30Khz. So, acoustically you have a six inch mid-range driver with a coaxial mounted tweeter which means it functions as a single point source. Now, by Eric figuring out how to make this work you get all the advantages of a coaxial driver, however the mid-range array weighs close to nothing leading to blazing speed/dynamics/micro-details compared to a regular six inch driver, regardless of what materials it is made out of it cannot be as light in weight. Yet, you still get not only remarkable transit response, but great control because each driver is small and well behaved. The closet you could come to this regarding weight/control would be a ribbon or AMT which cannot be used as a coaxial design as a single point source. Brilliant on his part!
The more I listen to the DI's regarding mid-range and high frequencies they easily rival any panel design/ribbon/AMT I have had in my system and surpass them in low end extension/dynamics and overall macro-dynamics,micro-dynamics and brings out realistic nuances from the music.Truly a magical sounding speaker at any price.
You end up with a speaker that has very good pin point sound stage and vertical dispersion that equals or rivals many speakers that are in a much higher price range.
The only negative I can find overall is the lack of appearance but I did buy a black metallic painted finish and I can easily live with this minor shortcoming in appearance the sound I get more than makes up for this.
Kenny.
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Sean,
So if you asked your friend about the DI's already knowing pertinent details as I've mentioned why are you wasting our time with this nonsense.
Have you actually listened to these speakers or are you just trying to convince yourself they are not for you.
Just wandering,I go where my ears lead me and really don't care about specs at the end of the day.But I still can't help not measure and test sometimes just to back up what I hear.
Kenny.
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So does that mean you are going to step up and buy a pair and listen for yourself? |
I find it to be just another thread of folks that think they know how a product will sound without even listening to the said product.
Proof is always in the pudding of listening and not from hype.
I don't really give a care what speakers you own,I know my budget would allow up to 35k and I barely put a dent in that with the DI's and couldn't be happier.
Just means I will get to retire and have even more listening time with money saved.
Kenny.
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Missioncoonery,
I may be stomping my feet to the wonderful sounding music,but at least I can spell the English language.
Just Saying.
Kenny.
|
It has been explained and actually tested by me,the DI's are not intended to be a near field speaker that should be obvious to any reasonably experienced audiophile.But they actually surprised me in sound quality at 6 feet away,I normally set 10ft away in my room.
Out of respect for Eric and other designers of speakers and other components I don't like to publish measurements or crossover points and design,so I will only say so much.
You guys would be surprised in how some highly regarded and expensive speakers actually measure in room.
Kenny. |
It has been explained and actually tested by me,the DI's are not intended to be a near field speaker that should be obvious to any reasonably experienced audiophile.But they actually surprised me in sound quality at 6 feet away,I normally set 10ft away in my room.
Out of respect for Eric and other designers of speakers and other components I don't like to publish measurements or crossover points and design,so I will only say so much.
You guys would be surprised in how some highly regarded and expensive speakers actually measure in room.
Kenny. |
Missioncoon,
Is it the fact the haters own expensive speakers and the thought that something in this price range is so good, it cuts into their systems' "exclusivity". Are they audio snobs? Wow, I really hope not.
Is this you,
Make me go away.
Kenny.
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Charles,
+1 on your intelligent wisdom.
Has been said many times there is no "Perfect" speaker but there is some that come close in the listeners sonic presentation priorities and the only true test is to listen to them in your room,with your system and music.
We can throw math and physics into the equation with any speaker or component and It may be nice to know but still the bottom line is how does it connect the individual to the music.
It's all about the Music is it not.
Kenny.
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Grannyring,
+1 on your intelligent wisdom also.
Ok, he does not have a pair to measure the actual driver distances, determine crossover points, test response, etc.... I guess he is looking at pictures..LOL!
Please own up to the fact that your post is mere speculation and irresponsible at best.
I could easily look at pictures of the Jbl 530 as a example and I could speculate that they probably don't sound that good but I have' to heard them and that would be pure speculation.
Kenny.
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Oh my what a can of worms has been opened up.
|
Sean,
Just to clarify, these are not the comments of a friend. I reached out to a well known speaker reviewer and this was his response. He is one of those reviewers who is into measurements. His response put me into a hold pattern on whether or not I should purchase these speakers and I felt like the information was worth sharing and discussing.
So which one is it or would you like to continue deceiving us.
Folks the DI's are a very good sounding speaker that honestly have no right to sound as good as they do especially at their price point.
Yes they utilize cheap,average,off the shelf drivers that throw any misconceptions in speaker design right out the window,The magical sound comes from design implementation,crossover design and high quality passive components in the crossovers.
Which I've upgraded mine much more with even better sounding passive parts and wiring.
Can The the DI's honestly be called a world beating speaker,I would say no they aren't but they definitely sound better to my ears than much more expensive speakers I've owned or heard.
Disclaimer,I much prefer a system pairing of equipment that is natural,not fatiguing and real sounding,I don't like most high end "Hi Fi" speakers that I've actually heard,they may have a tiny bit more detail,extension and pin point soundstage that you can reach out and touch and may have a touch more air.
Kenny.
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Kalali,
Here is a simple explanation of comb filtering that may help you,
Comb Filtering: This is basically a delayed version of a primary signal that is produced when two or more loudspeakers or drivers are playing the same signal at different distances from the listener. In any enclosed space such as a music or theater room, listeners hear a mixture of direct and reflected sound. Because the reflected sound takes longer to reach our ears, it constitutes a delayed version of the direct sound and a comb filter is created where the two combine at the listener. The extent of its audibility depends on how lively the room is to allow the reflected sounds to average out the overall response. Note that this interference may be constructive (additive) or destructive (subtractive).
Basically this why the DI's have the crossover design that they do.
Kenny.
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Mr_m,
You bring up some very revalant points that I certainly cannot argue with.
In your opinion do you think that Tekton is not quite ready,as a whole,for primetime.
Kenny. |
Jeffery,
I don't look at this thread as a bashing thread,
There has been some pertinent questions asked here,some may be not in the best fashion or intentions but IMO overall I think there is some knowledge to be gained.
As said from a couple of different professional reviewers the DI's are a very "Disruptive" product that is'nt going to be well received by many.
It is what it is.
Time will tell how this thread evolves.
Kenny.
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grannyring,
+1 on everything you have said in your previous post.
The current audio market is very slow and is generally a buyers market not a sellers.
I watch certain categories of components on audiogon like a hawk and really good stuff at decent used prices aren't selling.I see this pattern on a daily basis and I'm sure you do as well.
Kenny. |
Taking a chance on my DI's worked out really good in my favor,I threw away boxes and packing at the end of the first week.
I realize 3k is 3k but what about the other chance I took with 8k in buying the Linear tube audio gear that I pair with my DI's.
What about the 9k I have invested in 3 Dac's that I own taking the chance again.
I have no dealers in my state other than HT gear and I have no interest in most of those products.
This is why I greatly appreciate these threads and other sites as a starting point to gain valuable info from actual users,It's priceless IMO.
I greatly respect these threads and I always try my best to give solid advice which I can backup from actually listening and or owning a product and I can generally backup what I hear with actual in room measurements and experience.I always try to do best in real information and not speculation.
I know the DI speaker quite well,
I have upgraded every part in the crossovers except the coil on the woofers.
I know every crossover point from testing and confirming the points with the crossover design.
I have upgraded all 4 10 inch woofers to a better match for me.
I will only publish on any thread,a certain amount of info related to any products specs or measurements and this is out of Respect for the designers and builders of the products.
Kenny.
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Eric probably would if you contact him via phone or email.
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Probably not,
When I first called Eric I had read a little about the DI's and I put together a list of questions for him and that included detailed exact crossover points,So I could get a better understanding of the unusual and different design of this speaker.
He answered every one of my questions and after getting my DI's, I have confirmed that every detail that he told me is spot one.
When I read his patent that he has several times I found that to be kinda Vague and generic,so I really won't comment on that,Honestly don't really care.
Kenny. |
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Missioncoonery,
I believe you have every right to call Tekton and talk to Eric,
Maybe you will decide to buy yourself a pair and then you could give us your evaluation,good,bad,or ugly.
Kenny. |
kalali,
When I purchased my pair they had a set on their specials page that were ready to ship the same day.I got a upgraded black metallic paint finish,they were reduced slightly because of 2 super tiny flaws in the paint,you have to be within 6 inches to see them.I understand from others that the average wait is 3 to 4 weeks including shipping time,but that may vary depending on finish ordered.
Onhwy61,
The upgrades are explained in detail if you view the double impact speaker from the drop down that is located in the full tower section.
Now I know Tekton doesn't have the best website and needs more info maybe that will get better in time.
Kenny.
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kalali,
The efficiency comes from the combination of,
Drivers used
crossover design
cabinet internal volume
4 ohm impedance
And a touch of designer brilliance IMO.
They do sound simply wonderful in my system,the best sound I've ever owned and rivals many super high end systems that I've heard.
I guess that is why you can see I'm so passionate about them.
I sent you a pm a few days ago,I don't know if you got it.
Kenny.
|
They did sound great right out of the shipping boxes,but I haven't owned a speaker yet that I did'nt mod and get better sound.
Even though I did buy a upgraded pair of Di's from Eric,I have upgraded farther with even better caps,inductors and resistors and some wiring.
I started with the crossover on the woofers,
The heavy duty Jantzen coil is fine I didn't change it but I did change the single cap and got rid off the sand cast resistor,I don't like that type,I think they can be noisy.From day one when I got the speakers I didn't like cosmetically the blue colored woofers with my black metallic paint so I changed to the Eminence beta which gave me black cones the stock ones are the alpha's with blue cones.The physical size including depth are the same but the specs are slightly different.The beta's are 2 to 3 db more efficient in their specs of the driver in free air and they give me better bass and dynamics at very low volume levels and they equal or are slightly better defined bass at higher volumes.I also biwire mine with a single run of western electric 10ga wire that solders directly in the crossover,and I use the same wire to the woofers.The beta woofers cost 60.00 a piece from us speaker.I hear just better defined bass maybe tighter and does measure 2 to 3 db down at 20hz in room.
Now that's the easy stuff,I took a look at the crossover for the tweeters and mids and decided to change all caps,resistors,and coils to better parts IMO but I did'nt change any wiring,It's ok and would be a lot of work.
Even though my speakers sounded very good once broken in I couldn't leave them alone because I knew I could make them sound better,I basically gained overall smoothness and a tiny bit of clarity without hurting the magical midrange that these speakers have by design.
I wouldn't honestly recommend that everybody that owns a upgraded pair of Di's would want to incur the expense and time involved for the noticeable but modest gains in sound.
Basically what I'm saying It's a lot of work and it took me 2 whole days to do mine.
Take the time and remove a couple of tweeters and maybe the lwr mid and look at the crossover and you will have to decide if you want to tackle it.
One option might be just to change the little bypass cap on the tweeters input to better quality.
Any more questions,
Kenny.
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grannyring,
Thank You very much,
Get that soldering iron fired up no telling what you may mod next.
Kenny.
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craigl59,
Very nice analogy of basic driver costs that effects the bottom line that all speaker designers and manufacturers must factor in.
Just for clarification for the other readers,I believe you told me that your room is very large and you enjoy large scale highly dynamic classical music and you listen at loud levels hence the spare drivers already purchased as backups just in case.
Kenny.
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Soundscience,
Thank You for this good info,
Leo Beranek's Text book for MIT on acoustics, I have read bits of this book,I will take the time sometime and read all of it.
Kenny. |
I didn't see this on the site but I would like to hear this setup,
The SE version is'nt officially released yet and will be dealer only I do believe.
Most of us DI owners would like to hear it also.
Kenny.
|
Mmm,knowing what I do I just might build my own someday,no great hurry though.
Kenny.
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grannyring,
You bring up some good questions related to this review,
I will have to read it again more thoughts to follow.
Kenny. |
grannyring,
I read the review again just for clarification for me,
Overall I found the review kinda spotty and not that easy to understand the reviewers overall thoughts.He has the spec wrong on the sensitivity,the brilliance is rated 94db at 2.83 volts at 1M and not 94db 1w at 1M.
In my personal and experienced opinion the brilliance and the DI's are like comparing apples to oranges overall,I Offcourse have not had the chance to hear the brilliance speaker but I have heard the pendragon and wasn't that impressed.But as you know I truly love the sound I'm getting from my DI's.
The reviewer had a non upgraded pair which could be a huge difference in sound when he spoke of etched treble response,a upgraded crossover would probably take care of that issue,the bottom line in his review is the ratings he gave at the bottom using a note rating system which shows each category doing well except the fit and finish category.
The obvious difference that I see also is the single 8 inch woofer plays all the way up to 800hz and you are going to get a lot of voice at that frequency range and the woofer is so far away from the other drivers.This is a speaker you probably would want to sit 10ft or more away from to get the most coherent sound.
Remember the Di woofers are crossed at 250 hz and very little voice is going to be in that frequency range,just a thought.I honestly would rather read a review on the Electron speaker and or the DI monitor speaker,that would be much closer to the DI's.
Kenny.
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twoch,
Did I say what,can you elaborate. |
Eric,
"For the record: the DI loudspeaker is a gamechanger and it's here to stay folks! "
That's right and only getting better but some folks just won't try them for their various reasons,and that's their loss.
I took a chance with the DI's myself and from the first day I knew I had something special and on the 3rd day I was throwing the boxes and packing away,just happened to be thrash day at my house.
I took a even bigger chance when I bought a ps audio direct stream dac,without ever hearing one,that just like my Linear tube audio gear and First watt amps are going nowhere.
Kenny.
|
"Why are the inexperienced so quick to make judgement?"
Because they are Immature and Inexperienced. |
nonoise,
You are spot on,
It is what It is.
Kenny. |
213runnin,
What does the Enzo Xl speaker have anything to do with the title of this thread.?
I personally have measured my DI speakers at 95.3 DB with a one watt input at 1 meter at the Industry standard frequency of 1K in my listening room.
I had 2 different pairs of Zu audio speakers in the past and I performed efficiency measurements on them in 2 completely different rooms and the end result was way less than the 101DB that Zu claims.
Kenny. |
stfoth,
"I would expect if someone actually bought the Tektons and posted about them being the worst speakers the poster ever heard and such, that person would be "challenged" by others"
If you or anybody else actually bought and gave any Tekton speaker a honest shot and then decided they didn't like them for whatever reason and then utilized Eric's return policy,I would personally respect that persons decision because I know there is no perfect speaker,amp or other one piece of gear that every single person is going to like.
If you give me all details about what you are looking for in a speaker taking in consideration your room size,how close do you sit,music preferences,sonic preferences,volume levels,and other gear.
I probably could give you my opinion coming from experience of many yrs of listening to all kinds of gear.
Kenny. |
stfoth,
Yes I did mention the Brilliance or Electron for you on another thread,
After reading your preferences and other info in your post,I'm going to recommend the Electron or the DI monitor on proper stands since you already have a sub.
Even though I have never heard the Brilliance,I don't think either one of us would like that one,It doesn't have the tweeter array that is the key to getting the detailed smooth,never in your face,magic of this design.
I believe either speaker would do just fine at 1 foot from the back wall and pointed straight ahead with no toe in needed.
These Tekton speakers are very forgiving in placement unlike most other speakers.They will sound nothing like the average kplisch horn speaker that you have to be 20ft away from to get coherent sound.
As you know I have the DI's and I normally sit 10ft away in a 20x25x9ft room that has our open kitchen on one side.I recently did a experiment and moved my speakers 1ft from back wall and I moved my listening chair to 7 ft from the speakers.The sound was just as good in this more nearfield listening position as I get at 10ft but I would be to close to my tv so it was just a experiment.
The DI's would be too big for your room I would think though,I haven't tried mine in my 2nd smaller system in a spare bedroom I'm more interested in the Electron or monitor for that room but I'm in no hurry.
Hopefully you could talk to Eric when he has a moment away from designing the "super 1812 triple mega Ulf's".
Best of luck to you,
Kenny. |
james_w514,
"Insult an Audio Note product to a fan boy if you really want to deal with conflict"
You got that right +1.
Kenny.
|
stfoth,
I've explained the 7 tweeter array in many threads including the beginning posts in this thread,I know the crossover points and every measurement you could ever think of,I know how they are wired from upgrading all crossover parts to even better parts then the upgraded pair has.
What I'm saying is this if you call and don't get your questions answered I will do my best to give the skinny coming from my knowledge of this speaker.
Remember I have no skin in this Tekton game I'm just a happy owner that knows a lot about this speaker and others,I'm a highly technical guy and I can't keep myself from learning but at the end of the day so to speak "It's all about the Music for me"and all this equipment that we talk about is just a means to a end for musical playback in my home.
Kenny.
|
That is my experienced opinion and observation from listening,measurements and knowing the crossover points.
Any more questions.
Kenny. |
Also notice I did'nt mention anything about a patent or that the Tekton design makes every other design obsolete,I will leave that up to the Manufacturer to say.
Kenny.
|
Now which speakers are you referring too the double impacts or the enzo.
The title of this thread pertains to the double impact so your statements which I'm not disputing may be confusing to some readers.
Kenny.
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james_w514
mofojo
Easy fellows somebody will report you to the teacher.😃
Kenny.
|
I will have to read that review from stereophile on the Enzo XL and I'm open minded enough to report my findings.
Kenny.
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