Tekton Double Impact & Comb Filtering

Looks like Bose is making a comeback, except these new ones are uuuugly!

On the sensitivity numbers,  Tekton is 6 db off the actual sensitivity., and they should be embarrassed by that.  A noisy square box with low budget drivers, what an awful design that they are charging way too much for.

Those speakers are just plain ugly, at least Bose had some fashion sense.  And being off on the sensitivity by one or two db's is acceptable.  6 is false advertising.  And the design is also a squarish box with several strong resonance peaks, so says stereophile's measurements.  

You can tell by the immediate personal attacks that my critique can't be debated.  Ugly.  False advertising.  Econo box performance.  At least you can pay extra to put a grill on that ugly mug.

Mofojo, more insults from the cheap seats, at least come up with some good ones!   My critiques don't require ownership.  They are as ugly as sin.  They employ false advertising in the specs.  The cabinet's squarish design is resulting in expecting cabinet resonances.  Stereophile measures 4 big peaks.  That's poor speaker design, plain and simple.

I would never buy such a collection of compromises.  The comb filtering thing is ridiculous in a modern speaker.   $3000 is a complete rip off, but Bose sold junk to suckers for many years before people got wise to those little cube home theater nonsense speakers.  

I expect in a couple of years, unless Tekton gets serious about speaker design, the latest flavor of the month will be up for sale in the used marketplace in droves.   Too bad that marketing and the lemming instincts of the internet herd can cause such a waste of money.

Yep, presently I have Rainmakers, 3 different Tannoy models, and some Pioneer and Paradigm speakers.  None of them look as ugly as the Tekton box though.  But hey, whatever floats your boat I guess.

Mofo, no I'm not off the measurement kick.  If a company can't be trusted to give accurate specs to their products, than I wouldn't trust them period.  Send them your wallet if you want, they are not for me.  

I am looking for an end game speaker, and the Sierra Tower is on the short list.  Ascend measures their products carefully, among the other things they do so well for the customer.  But I'll bow out as I've made my points for anyone looking for the pros and cons of speakers by Tekton.

Uh, Kenny, in fact by mentioning that you didn’t mention anything about a patent or the Tekton design, you are indeed mentioning it. But you probably knew that. It seems that you have a fascination for Tekton, and that is fine, everybody needs a hobby, but your opinions are therefore quite biased, as one can easily read. You seem to have an awful lot of time on your hands.

And as for James-w514, actually this thread was started by a non-owner researching Tekton, so if there is any Tekton thread a non owner should weigh in on, it would be this one. Fan boy owners can gush all they want over on the various Tekton owner threads, but you might get upset if you read critical comments here. So have a hanky nearby!

Make you go away?  What is this, a school yard?  Again your bias is showing, I am simply pointing it out as it's important as one weighs your many posts in this thread.

I didn't pull any of that out of thin air.  The measurements were done by Stereophile, and clearly show several cabinet resonance peaks, which Stereophile mentions.  These resonances are the result of a rectangle cabinet with sides that vibrate.  It would cost more for the manufacturer to properly brace the cabinet or use stiffer materials.  The link was provided above by another poster, obviously going over the measurements was too much for fanboys.

Also in the Stereophile review, they found that the sensitivity number provided by the manufacturer was off by 6db.  1 or 2 decibels might be understandable, but a variance of 6 is either an alarming lack of quality control or false advertising.  Fanboys might respond with silly insults, but it doesn't change the facts.  And they are indeed ugly, but I will allow as to how beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  

Totem does not misrepresent their specs, not sure what you're talking about there, james.  That's my only point, which you can't refute.  Tekton is either flat wrong about the Enzo's sensitivity, or the quality control is badly lacking.  Either way it reflects badly on Tekton.  As does the many resonance issues with the cabinet.  Flame on, fanboy.

james, you have no idea what my "education" may be with this hobby. I suggest you read more of my posts than the last week to see what I’ve owned previously. Parasound Halo, Paradigm Signature, etc. In the last year I got bored with my systems and sold most of it off to experiment with what’s out there these days.

And I’m talking about the Enzo speaker, James. Not sure why I have to keep reminding you. Perhaps you should try some of your ineffectual fanboy attacks on the poster that posted the Enzo link, since he’s the one that brought the Enzo into the discussion. But it’s fair to discuss more than one model in a Tekton thread. Only a fanboy would cry foul.

It is indeed tired and dated, but fanboys attacking anybody that has a critical opinion of their speakers or other items has a long tradition on audio forums, unfortunately.  The first time I ran into this behaviour was on the Emotiva forum.  It was somewhat like a cult over there.  

Everything was fine while I was buying their products and reporting my joy, but as soon as I started finding the limits of their gear it was fanboy attack time.  I noticed others who had similar views might even disappear from the forum.  Ah well, hopefully Tekton can survive it if a small minority don't care for them.

 

Mofo, I was not beating on them, 3 or 4 of you were beating on me(and I was responding to that) for daring to critique them. Name calling and personal attacks about me and my gear for goodness sakes. Instead of simply countering my points, which at least some of the members bothered to do eventually.

Note to self, never critique Tekton, not even in a thread so named.

Tektons are like a box of chocolates.. until you try them you never know what ure gonna get.

Exactly, and that is the main problem with Tekton speakers.  Forget about the plain cabinet and low budget looking woofers.  Forget about the bombastic ad copy that Tekton chooses to use on their site.  Forget about the comb filtering issues.  Forget about the badly vibrating cabinet that Stereophile discovered.

Tekton will not tell you how their speakers perform across the frequency range.  Oh, they'll tell you a given model will go from 30-30,000 Hz, but not how close it stays to flat across that range.  And as Stereophile found out, the Enzo measured REALLY badly.  Will a given model have a big mid range dip as the Enzo does?  Will it color the sound to the extent that a given piece of music sounds completely different?  Who knows.

So it sounds like a professional reviewer prefers the DI over the  Wilson Sasha, and that's fine.  I may or may not agree with his taste when it comes to speakers and gear.   What I don't get is why Tekton is withholding the  frequency response graph of their speakers, so prospective customers can see how the speakers compare with their own, or with other brands.  

Tekton is withholding this information because they don't want it known, there is no other reasonable explanation.  And to suggest that all other speaker brands don't give every subtle nuance is just more over-the-top ad copy.  

Two Erics agreeing, there must be some kind of good karma wrapped up in that. :)

As to the statement that no measurements are published, there are several published on each Tekton model, save one. Hey Eric, publish what you want, it’s your company. The Enzo XL, which Stereophile measured, went up to 6 decibels to the plus and minus, which adds up to a 12 decibel swing.

So one thing can be certainly said, those speakers will color the sound, and change the music from what the artist intended. And since Tekton withholds this spec from every single model, one can assume that all of their speakers color the sound. Not my cup of tea.

PS: B&W do indeed publish the frequency response, which is what I’m referring to. frequency range with - or + decibel range. So then I looked at the Martin Logan site. Same thing, they include the decibel range, not sure what point you’re trying to make, Eric S.

213runnin, don’t you own Totem Rainmaker? Check the Stereophile measurements on them. The same 12 db swing in frequency response you are blasting Tekton for (-5/+7 db). Totem’s specs state +/- 3 db, which are off by 100 percent. What good are those specs? Lots of really bad cabinet resonances too. I thought that kind of coloration wasn’t your cup of tea. I have never heard Rainmaker so I can’t comment on how it sounds, but the measurements do not look very good. But I have heard Arro, and liked them well enough for what they do....

csmgolf, 2 things. First, that review is from 2004, and the Rainmakers have gone through some changes since then. Totem is both revered and hated for improving their speakers from time to time without so much as a "V2" in the upgraded speaker. So a measurement from 2004 is not going to be an accurate representation of the current sound. Also, the Rainmaker was specifically designed to have the "U" shaped frequency response that was first made popular in the 70’s, by a British speaker I believe. Either way, at least Totem put a decibel range on the frequency response, unlike Tekton.

Second, the Rainmaker is a 1200 speaker. At that price is it made in North America, the cabinets alone take 2 hours to complete. The parts are all from non China based manufacturers, as Totem is one of the few that tries to stand against all manufacturing ending up in China. So one will pay a premium for that stand. Bottom line, the Double Impact is a $3000 speaker, and shouldn’t have the same compromises WRT cabinet resonances and wider than usual frequency swings.

Look, buy what you want, and like what you want. But this over-the-top defensiveness for anything Tekton is silly. Personal attacks against me and my Rainmakers(I’ve owned about 15 different pairs of speakers in the last 3 years) is also silly. Just accept the fact that not everyone will love the speakers you love.

Mofo, the defensiveness and attacks I was referring to were coming from several posters, not just one. I’m sure CSM can answer for him or herself.  Miki, no one is forcing you to read a thing.

Wow, how is it that grown adults can get into such a lather over some comments they don't agree with made by some complete stranger on the internet?  

here is Eric's patent on loudspeaker design.

Seanheis, what are your thoughts on that patent, I'm unfamiliar with some of that  legalese language.

Yeah, it sounds pretty out there.  Talking about present drivers being unable to produce something called "the overtone spectra",   contained in music?  There are many that frequent live performances of all types of music that would vehemently disagree with this idea .

But I guess a guy's gotta make a living, and if you come up with some loudspeakers that look different, and you're a good salesman, well the sky's the limit in the USA.  It keeps reminding me of Bose.  I imagine when Tekton was starting out, they needed  investors, and of course would need more as the company expanded its lines.  No doubt those are around, pumping up the company in different ways.

Kenny, why don't you look into what patents were needed for the Bose 901 speaker, then report back?

You have?  It doesn't sound like you have looked for how many patents the Bose 901 has.   I'm not saying there is or is not a single thing in common between the two speakers. 

I'm wondering how many patents the 901 had.

James, the multiple driver array reminds me of Bose.  It's something that they have in common.  It's just a visual thing.  If you want to learn more, you'll have to do it on your own, I'm afraid.

And hifial, me thinks you protest too loudly!  

Kenny, not sure why you brought up the Ulf speaker or how many patents it may have.  

Mofojo, are you all done with your puking?  Hope you're feeling better.

And I'm really curious how many investors Tekton has.  Are they pushing The owner to sell, sell sell!?  And what activities are they partaking of to pump up sales themselves?  Enquiring minds want to know!

I see that anyone holding a different point of view is still getting mob attacked on this thread.  Nitewulf, whenever you see this kind of fervor for any particular brand, there is usually no point in trying to have a discussion.

And where did you get that information about a co-axial effect?  The Tekton web site?

Well the only real way to get true "co-axial" effect is to get speakers with coaxial drivers.  I recommend Tannoy and Kef, and I'm sure there are others.

How many coaxial speakers have you owned, Ken?  I mean speakers like the Kef LS50, with an actual coaxial driver?  I don't need to speculate, I've got a pair of coaxials right now.

Sean, it sounds like those trying to pump up the Tekton brand  may be exaggerating about this coaxial nonsense since even Tekton isn't reaching that far.  

BTW, I've owned several coaxial based speakers from Tannoy, that grand storied brand, and Tekton has a long way to go to at least start having decent looks, never mind performance.

It should be stated for anyone reading this thread that 213runnin does not own any good gear so take his comments regarding performance with a BIG grain of salt. You can look at his ownership history through his CAM account and posts. Better we be up front about things if someone is going to keep slinging mud at a manufacturer and a product he has never heard. Everyone’s opinion has its place but some are more credible than others. It boggles my mind that someone would go this hard against a company/person/manufacturer. He has even Invaded my Canuck Audio Mart thread about Tekton. People have personally reached out to me inquiring what the issue is with this user but I have no answers.

What’s this James, are you trying to out me? My profile in canuckaudiomart shows that 17 people have had dealings with me and have had a positive experience. I’ve probably dealt with over 20 members and not one single person has had anything bad to say about me.

But what about your thread that I’ve "invaded"? Why didn’t you link to it? I made 7 posts in your 6 page thread, and the last thing I said was:

Hmm, that’s the best argument yet that I’ve heard to be interested in the Tektons. I"m getting kind of bored with the usual box sound myself.

This is the same thread in which I asked James how many $5000+ speakers he’s owned, and he replied with this:

Over the years more than I could count or remember. That’s generally the average price of my secondary speakers.

It’s in this thread here:
http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=47144&start=45

For the record, I presently own a theater system that contains a Denon AVR 4520, Oppo 103, Benq projector, Sierra 1’s for LCR and 4 Totem Lynks for surround. My 2 channel system is currently a Nad c375BEE, Nad C565BEE cd player, Schiit Bifrost Multibit and a Pure idock for the iphone. Speakers are presently Totem Rainmakers and Tannoy DC4T. Also Wireworld and Morrow Audio cables worth over $1200.

Sorry this isn’t good enough for you James, maybe if I save up and buy really expensive gear I can be accepted in your thread. BTW, in THIS thread, it’s not the Tekton DI Owner thread. It’s a thread in which some weakness of the DI, and Tekton in general are being discussed. If you can’t handle this, perhaps you should stick to the owner thread, I’ve stayed out of it and will promise for you to stay out.

Oh, now you're all friendly again.  Just what is your deal, James?  You go from trying to shame me for the lowly gear I own to, "hey, thanks for linking my thread".  You're kind of a jerk, James, I don't think I'd ever want to have any dealings with you on Canuckaudiomart.  

And in this thread, I'm going to discuss Tekton's faults with posters like Sean.  You're going to have to deal with it.

Sean, sorry about this odd little diatribe. What a strange conversation. I’ll just ignore such foolishness in the future, hopefully such petty personal attacks are refrained from.

I think you’e right, indeed Tekton doesn’t mention anything about any coaxial effect. In fact, on some of their speakers, they use full range drivers with whizzer cones.