Tariffs and sky high audio prices.
No doubt if the Chinese or Mexican tariffs last more than a couple months, there will be unintended consequences. For those importing and selling audio products made in China or products made with parts from China, their cost will be going up. Obviously, they will want to pass them along...but often times with higher prices come lower sales so there will also be pressure not to raise prices. If sales are low enough, there could actually be price reductions and possibly, in an almost worst case scenario, layoffs. Often times, it is the biggest companies, those that rely on scale, that produce in China...so, not to pick on KEF, but are we as buyers currently getting a big savings because of production in China? One might argue that we are not, or one might argue that KEF would have to have higher prices if their products were made in Europe or the U.S. Where does that leave us? My experience over the past few years has been that there are really good small American companies making great products here in the U.S. that might actually benefit from tariffs if it means that more people decide to give them a try. Tariffs are not a good thing overall, they are a tool to be used to try to get a more level playing field. They will have unintended consequences. Some will benefit, some will not. In the end, between good small American companies and possibly a more robust preowned market, I suspect we don't really have that much to fret about...from an audio perspective that is. |
Econ 101. Terrifs are no good for anyone or any country. The consumer will get the costs passed on to them. Like it or not, it's a World economy. During the recession we all felt it. US,China, Europe, Japan. If the world economy is strong, we all benefit. If you're such a great deal maker, then make a deal to solve the problem. Then I don't have to worry about my audio equipment prices trippling because it's made of aluminum. |
@snapsc. Yes, most certainly KEF and other speaker manufactures would have to have either higher prices or lower profit margins if they moved production to higher labor cost locations. Look at the price difference between KEF's made in the UK Reference line and the rest of their products. No doubt Uk manufacturing costs are a part of that difference. Consumers want the highest quality and greatest product diversity for the lowest possible price. In our own little audio corner of the retail universe, witness the constant carping about "rip off" prices of boutique audio gear with low production volume and high labor costs. The market has responded by giving people what they want by chasing the lowest possible labor costs. Limitless pursuit of that principle has proven to be a bit of a Faustian bargain as far as the social implications though. In the Western world, we've got ever increasing product diversity and a downward trend in the number of middle income people to support the market. It will be interesting to see how the ripple effects from the use of tariffs plays out with people already stretched to the max and struggling to get by. We as a nation aren't accustomed to personal sacrifice in the interests of long term goals. |
Well, the new Village People trade policy (USMCA) has resulted in around 10% more trade imbalance (the wrong way). So far, so good? Can't wait for the loss of small businesses and the cascading effects if and when the Mexico tariffs go into effect. Big businesses can absorb immediate hits but the mom and pop shops can use the thoughts and prayers approach and see how it works. All the best, Nonoise |
I don’t know what comes next but on the bright side some say anything that helps assure only another year or so of Donald Trump can’t be all bad. Allegedly..... In other relevant good news, my hifi still sounds good so far despite tariffs. 2/3 of my gear is from good ol’ US companies, mostly Audio Research and Bel Canto in Minnesota and OHM in Brooklyn, but I fear most of the parts even for those come from China and perhaps even Mexico. |
Darn, I done got myself edited, well at least not deleted. Got to give it to the moderators they are surely watching this thread. I am enjoying this one immensely for its civility and information but see the offended crowd emerging. Before it turns into a circus, let's just put this to bed. I enjoyed keeping up with this thread but it's being hijacked. |
Actually the new guideline was don’t "bash the president". I’ll agree with that if he will agree to stop bashing everyday citizens that he impacts that happen to challenge him with his low class tweets. By the way, he happened to take an oath to protect all to get the job. Go figure! Hopefully that does not mean no proper criticism. It’s still a free country, right? The president (happens to be Trump at present) is apparently already immune as well from being indicted by our justice department and congress still appears mostly afraid of his tweets. No crown and robe quite yet...... |
mapman“trade wars are good, and easy to win” I do not understand the lack of faith, support, and confidence shown by presumably Americans in this thread about they're own Chief Executive (President) who is demonstrably shown through direct evidence to be the most successful Chief Executive (President) the USA has ever had one need only examine his many buildings, clubs, and facilities to see proof of this fact. Some "critics" say but what about his bankruptcies or he doesn't pay taxes but these tools, mechanisms, and provisions are part of the American business system and Trump has wisely, expertly, and successfully used these tools and if he thinks trade wars are easy to win I would expect Americans to have faith in his abilities to plan, complete, and execute his winning strategy as he has his other pursuits, endeavors, and initiatives. |
Still a good thread even though the guy that cuts my grass chimes in from time to time. As I have stated earlier, I have a system made up of components from all over the world. Not 1 USA product can I say, with a high degree of confidence, is COMPLETELY made of USA made components. My speakers are made in Brooklyn USA. I do not know where the wood or the glue is sourced. The equipment to work the wood, the stain, the lacquer, I have no idea. The internal wire, I don't know. A USA made wire from raw materials mined from where, I don't know. The drivers I'm pretty sure are Scandinavian. We need to understand the breadth and depth of the proposed tariffs to truly understand the potential impact. @jonasandezekiel Unfortunately, I do have a small amount of exposure to the political process. While I've never served in office or a governmental role (thank you very much), I've sat at large round tables and exchanged ideas with alot of really bright people from both sides of the aisle over the years. I came away each time with a deeper understanding of the complexities and intricacies these people face on our behalf. I can say with extreme confidence that in the overwhelming majority of issues discussed, really smart people can and do honestly arrive at opposing conclusions with the same data. I don't doubt anyone's motivations but it sure boggles the mind when certain things seem so obvious. Much like audio. |
What about all those other smart people in years past who were also successful business men? Not to mention all those out there in other countries today who avoid trade wars? Those in the USA who have not lost as much as Donald Trump? Which according to known tax docs to-date is apparently, uh, everyone? Confidence? Surely you jest? We’ll see.... Again, there will not even be endless lawyers and lawsuits to back him up in this one, not that those prevented his past failures that pretty much everyone else who did business with him paid for except him. He’s top notch at selling himself and his brand, I will give him that! But I don't think most of our major trade partners these days are very impressed. |
rsf507 "if you were looking to hire someone to run your company would you hire someone that lost the most $$$$ of any American on his other business adventures? I think not." You fail to comprehend or understand the nature of taxes, financial statements, and P&L calculations the losses you mention are "paper losses" calculated to provide maximum benefit to the Trump organization which is the responsibility of the CEO to secure on behalf of the company these tools, mechanisms, and provisions are part of the American business system and Trump has wisely, expertly, and successfully used these tools. |
@jonesandezekiel, The silenced voices you refer to on those sites were Nazis, white supremacists, and radical nut jobs who used the platforms to incite hate and foment violence against others not like them, as well as using the sites as recruiting platforms. It's one thing to speak a point of view on a subject and another to force it on a society. These jerks wouldn't be around if we were still in the years following WWII. Returning GIs would have solved the problem for us and no one would have objected. They would have been found in alleys, dumpsters, landfills and floating face down in a river. If they survived, they would have woken up in a hospital breathing through a scab. There are not fine people on both sides. All the best, Nonoise |
Of course the media is going to try and send us into a panic and report how bad this is going to be for Americans. They're good at giving us the bad news. I remember some other forum years back with a discussion about cables. Monoprice was mentioned and praised for how it sounded just as good as those "overpriced" cables like Blue Jean. Well the owner of Blue Jean chimed in and explained how Monoprice was selling a finished product for cheaper than he could get the raw materials! That's the point of the tariff - to give smaller companies like Blue Jean a fighting chance. |
Every policy has its winners and losers. Who is going to give the vast numbers of relatively poor, and perhaps also a fair chunk of the middle class, who already cannot make ends meet legally in many cases, a fighting chance when prices at Walmart go up? Many would say poverty and the crime and other social dysfunction that goes with it is public enemy #1. Unfortunately the Mom and Pop stores Walmart ran off aren’t coming back... they will continue to operate at a disadvantage no matter where the goods come from. Much harder to turn back the clock than to move forward..... |
If you consider words actions then yes, if not - anyone can say anything, Nazi or not.The point is they were going beyond mere words. They were doxing people, showing up and threatening them, and encouraging others like them to do the same. It's that type of stochastic terrorism that'll get the knuckle draggers to actually commit the physical act, while those giving voice to such crap hide behind the 1st ammendment, saying, "It wasn't me!" All the best, Nonoise |
@inna Shouting "fire" in a crowded theater when there is no fire is not protected speech. Shouting "fire" in a crowded theater when there is a fire is heroic. If you demonstrably believed there to be a fire, that is also protected. Same word, same test for reasonableness. Hating on idiots, within reason, is ok (if not expected). Hating on people because of religion, race, ethnicity or other reasonable human difference is unfortunate and requires higher scrutiny. Now if someone is inciting or intending to incite violence or a call to action to harm or otherwise harass others, and he is certain that the Clintons, the Bushes and the Bilderbergers conspired and brainwashed his dog into convincing the Federal Reserve to cut rates right after he purchased his new monster truck with the confederate flag graphics on a 96 month 100% note and that the additional interest he has to pay could have gone toward his Marlboro and high fidelity fuse budget then that is not typically free speech. (by the way, it was me who brainwashed the dog) Maybe I’m mistaken though. The typical monster truck purchaser understands the capital markets far too well to confuse the connection, surely he would have purchased puts on LIBOR in advance of making such a wise purchase. Jokes aside, hating on others, be it tube, solid state, skin color, religious affiliation (or the lack thereof) is just a clear display of a lack of intelligence and compassion. The higher being with whom I speak on a daily basis doesn’t teach this, She teaches free will but inspires me to stay in my lane. |
"Now if someone is inciting or intending to incite violence or a call to action to harm or otherwise harass others, and he is certain that the Clintons, the Bushes and the Bilderbergers conspired and brainwashed his dog into convincing the Federal Reserve to cut rates right after he purchased his new monster truck with the confederate flag graphics on a 96 month 100% note and that the additional interest he has to pay could have gone toward his Marlboro and high fidelity fuse budget then that is not typically free speech. (by the way, it was me who brainwashed the dog)" Ghasley, I almost choked laughing so hard at that one. |
On free trade and markets, here's a classic essay that should be read if you haven't done so before. I found it in video form: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYO3tOqDISE |
@oregonpapa Thanks for posting the link. It reminded me of those times in school where the teacher had to leave the room so they would put on a film strip! In short, that is surely an idealized version of free trade and I wish it were that simple. Life is like a game of musical chairs. When the music stops playing and your best friend is left without a chair, what do you do? As a society (I'm talking the society of mankind, not residents of Boogerville), are we willing to share our chair with someone who has no chair? Would you like to be without a chair (or food,or shelter) and absolutely no one was willing to help? The purest democracy on earth right now seems to be India. Pure democracy works but it sure looks alot like a Darwinesque -survival of the fittest - Hunger Games kind of existence. Much like being forced to listen only to a Bose Wave Radio (dig how I just threaded the needle to make this post about audio). |
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A lot of people reading this thread but only a few participate. Just like in reality - one does useful work and at least ten more live on it. And the one who works doesn't even get the biggest share. Anyway, tariffs are nothing, try to get guaranteed authentic Persian carpet. In New York City yes you can, a hell of a lot of money, but you can. I had to put this idea on hold until better times. Damn, it would look great on the wall between speakers and I bet it would improve the sound. Go for authentic no matter the cost and effort. And that is not Chinese electronics parts and tubes. They got authentic stuff but that's another matter. That's one reason why I am not interested in brands like VAC, Atma-Sphere, many speaker brands. First deliver quality and support your own people. I am sorry if more Chinese would be hungry, there are millions of Americans, including children, who are hungry. In reality of many this country is getting less and less fair and more and more poor. Think about it. |
