Tariffs and sky high audio prices.

^^^
Give to the Salvation Army and eliminate the inefficient middleman known as government. 

Frank

^^^
Give to FoFundMe and eliminate the inefficient middleman know has healthcare insurance (who spend25% of healthcare expenditures on administrative Scroogery.)

No matter where you choose to give, its the giving thats important. Go to guidestar.org and research any non profit you desire...that even includes the NFL LOL! You can view several years worth of their IRS 990’s and even view highly compensated individuals in many cases (there are workarounds). But consider starting locally, direct giving. Consider food banks, soup kitchens and homeless shelters. Or local music programs, whatever floats your boat. Earlier this year I got wind that the local high school choir could not afford to hire piano accompanyists so we decided to underwrite that for the year. It would have been easy to complain about why there wasn’t any money for that when I find its even easier to focus on solutions where an immediate impact can be made. Habitat for humanity is another good program.

I was under the impression that a large percentage of usa audio equipment uses Chinese made parts, eg: caps resistors, diodes, transformers. Sorry if you already beat this to death, I don't have time to read gazillion posts on a thread. But it's an interesting subject. 

I would rather pay an extra 25% for an iPhone than to lose my manufacturing job to China as happened to so many of my neighbors here in VA, NC and SC.

I wonder what $100,000 amplifier comes from China?  Most of my equipment was manufactured in the USA.  I did , however, just buy a BluDento aptX HD wireless music receiver ... it is made in China and it is awesome!

@pedroboe



You are correct although it varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. Its bigger than that though, excellent parts come from all over the world and are used in a great deal of the “made in America by American hands” type gear. Same goes for cars, motorcycles...the whole idea of the righteous tariff imposing camp makes my head hurt a little. When no making policy they are probably advising pregnant teens on the merits of abstinence.

@david_pully 


While I agree with you in principle, there is a measurable point on the sliding scale where consumers abandon principle en masse to migrate to value. The 1% that is often bashed is not in Walmart nor buying direct from Aliexpress. You actually made the point with your new purchase. Once something becomes commoditized, its a race to the bottom. On a macro level, the higher raw cost/labor cost nation is better redeploying that macro resource to an area of less commoditization.

"...there are millions of Americans, including children, who are hungry."

Statistics can be so deceiving...

https://www.aafp.org/news/health-of-the-public/20181015obesityrpt.html

Despite the rising levels of obesity in those who can afford to eat badly, or for those who don’t have healthy food choices but tons of fast food nearby, there are over 40 million Americans, 12 million who are children, who are classified as food insecure.

That means they don’t know where their next meal will come from or have the means to get it on their own. They don’t factor into the obesity statistics, which could lead someone to think, fake news.

One needs to be careful of statistics and who's using them. If, say, 20 guys are in a bar one night and their average income is $40,000 a year, you'd think they were an average American. If Bill Gates were to join them, their average income would be $255 million, and that would be misleading.

All the best,
Nonoise

@glupson



While its unlikely anyone would imply, because obesity rates are on the rise, that hunger isn’t one of our major challenges as a society capable of preventing it.

If someone were to use that data to make a case that all is well, they are ill informed....or worse. Denying that a problem exists makes it worse, it doesn’t make it go away. 

If obesity is caused in part by over-consumption of low quality food, then what is the inevitable result of oversaturating our children with low-res MP3 heard through $9 earbuds?

I bought my sixteen year old daughter a VPI turntable for Christmas with ELAC in-the-wall speakers!

If obesity is caused in part by over-consumption of low quality food, then what is the inevitable result of oversaturating our children with low-res MP3 heard through $9 earbuds?

Earbesity?

And with the climate change food is going to be more expensive unless major changes are made. On the other hand, so many people I heard of eat way too much, much more than they need. Besides other consequences, they spend a lot on food, probably three or four times more than I do, and then they think that $100 for a record is outrageous. 
So..I think we have the right to know where the parts for audio components we buy come from, conditions under which they are manufactured, standards, projected longevity etc. Then each one would make an informed decision for himself. If something is assembled in the US from mostly non-US parts it is not made in US item even if the company is US registered. If a critical part like tube or transistor is not American this is not exactly American equipment even if all the other parts are. This country became incredibly dependent on the others, both for import and export, and I think it is no go. Self sufficiency is more important than rampant consumerism.

There was a time when the conditions you would like to see were being operated under. But as jobs and manufacturing were being sent overseas (not stolen), the same movers and shakers were busy contributing to politicians to have labeling laws changed in order to fool American consumers. 

What you want is not what they want.

All the best,
Nonoise

Yeah.
Another point regarding Chinese that was almost untouched in this thread is that there are so many Chinese students in American universities. They pay full price, spend a lot on living, most go back to China with the knowledge how to compete. And some stay here to steal the technology. Of course, there are also true refugees and just normal people who can't tolerate that regime.
But all this is not only American problems. Look at the UK and France and even Australia. 
What will happen if Chinese learn before the West how to control the environment ? This would become the ultimate tool. Big part of the destruction of Amazonian forest is because of the Chinese buying up everything. And in return they give us what ? S***, that's what.

It is has been demonstrated that the American Chief Executive (President) has successfully executed at least one phase of his tariff plan, policy, and strategy with the successful conclusion of discussions and negotiations with Mexico who has now fully complied with the terms, conditions, and requirements set forth by your CEO. This must annoy, confound, or disturb his "critics" and of course the "experts" hear who have so disrespectfully disputed the unqualified achievemnts, success, and accomplishments of the most successful CEO (President) that the US has ever had at least in recent years. Trump wisely, expertly, and successfully used the tools available to him and he is showing the truth that for him "trade wars are easy to win" and I would fully expect Americans to have faith in his abilities to continue to plan, complete, and execute his winning strategy.

@inna 


You can't buy what isn't for sale! I heard this so often over the years, "The Japanese bought Pebble Beach", "They bought the Waldorf", yadayada. "The Chinese bought the rainforest"....the list goes on and on. Why doesn't anyone get angry with the seller while only the buyer gets bashed? The seller wants the enhanced value (there is coal under that mountain or oil under that meadow) and then scream and shout when the buyer who paid up for the asset tries to realize the value of their LEGAL purchase. Outlaw the extraction if that is our desire prior to an extractor of said asset paying up(that would be my desire in ALOT of places). Most areas have considerable examples of conservation easements where a non profit entity raises fund through donation or taxes and then pays a farmer/rancher a sum of money in exchange for deed restricting the property. it works quite well. They realize the financial gain and the public realizes it desire to keep open spaces.

Similarly, the west has been buying or taking assets globally for generations. Things get bought and things get sold and things get taken. Look at the Middle East oil fields (at least until they were nationalized). While I absolutely despise everything the Nazi regime stood for, the US and the Soviets took their technology for nukes and rocket propulsion as the spoils of war. Someone else takes the research of someone else and enhances, streamlines, solves problems and introduces new innovations. Once again, in order to negotiate with others you must know them. Intellectual property is a western concept, one which I respect, but thinking that a patent/copyright will solely protect your ideas is outdated. To try to block free market asset sales would send the far right over the edge..."the gubment won't let me sell what is rightfully mine to sell!" ""the gubment won't let me buy sumpthin I want with my very own money". Can't have it both ways. Reverse engineering has been going on since the beginning of .... engineering. I'd bet there was a dude who had an idea of feeding the masses with loaves of bread while there was another dude who believed feeding the masses with fishes was a better approach.....and then another came along and decided to feed everyone with loaves AND fishes...and he made history! Tesla, Edison, AC, DC....

Back to the rainforest and the environment....now, wouldn't it be nice if the populace (the world) would support and fund such important purchases...call it the environmental version of a stock buyback, to purchase large blocks of land to take it off the market forever. BUT....then there's always a neighbor named Cliven....CLIVEN....really?...who believes he has a right to graze his water buffalo (or whatever herds are adjacent to the rainforest in question) on this publicly owned land.

As far as other nations sending their best and brightest to come study in the USA, is this new????? Is this a thing???? The USA used to send its best and brightest to England to study...oh wait, we still do. We send student all over the globe!!! When I was in graduate school, more than half of my classmates were International and you know what? They learned about us and our business methods and we learned about them and their business methods.

I get a little jacked up at the double standard I often hear that only Americans are allowed to set out in the world and expand their holdings but are quick to cry about it when the inverse, no matter how small, occurs. Here's something to think about....If you build an isolationist wall around yourself to keep other ideas and peoples out you soon realize that all that's left inside those very walls are the same people and the same old ideas....it also begins to resemble a jail, something we are quite good at building.

It is has been demonstrated that the American Chief Executive (President) has successfully executed at least one phase of his tariff plan, policy, and strategy with the successful conclusion of discussions and negotiations with Mexico who has now fully complied with the terms, conditions, and requirements set forth by your CEO. This must annoy, confound, or disturb his "critics" and of course the "experts" hear who have so disrespectfully disputed the unqualified achievemnts, success, and accomplishments of the most successful CEO (President) that the US has ever had at least in recent years. Trump wisely, expertly, and successfully used the tools available to him and he is showing the truth that for him "trade wars are easy to win" and I would fully expect Americans to have faith in his abilities to continue to plan, complete, and execute his winning strategy.

What a load, bunch and wagon full of PR, spin and outright falsehoods.
This goes to show that every country has a radical, extremist and closed minded right wing element that hero worships any strongman, autocrat and tin god entity that comes their way.

All the best,
Nonoise

@clearthink


History hasn’t been written yet on the bestest, greatest, most awesome and huge administration. Its not hard to win a negotiation with a tier 3 international power whose economy is in lock step with ours. It was the trade war version of wag the dog.

I dont know how you define "most successful in modern times". Is that the last year? 10 years? 20 years? 30 years? 50 years? 100 years? Reagan had a pretty good record and was internationally respected, even by our adversaries. Clinton had a good run and you could argue that the economy inherited by Obama made a pretty solid comeback. The recent tax cuts, which benefitted me personally, will go down in history as an inflection point, a point of no return for the middle class.

Clearthink,

As always I’ll hope for the best but will leave the have trust in Donald Trump part solely to you. Cheers!

We could exchange those people for Chinese tubes. But no, I would not be using those tubes, I would throw them away.

@clearthink

It just dawned on me that your moniker might be, just maybe, an example of when you call your tall friend "Tiny", or your intellectually challenged friend "Einstein".

Oh no you didn't!

@clearthink ... this Ivy League Audiophile likes your thinking!

Blind Faith?

They were very good.

Hi-fi tie-in, thank you very much......👏🏻👏👏🏽👏🏿

A great many "Can't find my way home" (shameless hifi ref)

@david_pully Very cool, Ivy League! Didn't you find that going to the best of the best school with the best of the best students from both here and around the world enhanced your educational experience? Broadened horizons? Empathy and respect for others? If nothing else, the best music and the best parties were likely showcased by the South American students right?

clearthink:

It is has been demonstrated that the American Chief Executive (President) has successfully executed at least one phase of his tariff plan, policy, and strategy with the successful conclusion of discussions and negotiations with Mexico who has now fully complied with the terms, conditions, and requirements set forth by your CEO. This must annoy, confound, or disturb his "critics" and of course the "experts" hear who have so disrespectfully disputed the unqualified achievemnts, success, and accomplishments of the most successful CEO (President) that the US has ever had at least in recent years. Trump wisely, expertly, and successfully used the tools available to him and he is showing the truth that for him "trade wars are easy to win" and I would fully expect Americans to have faith in his abilities to continue to plan, complete, and execute his winning strategy.

Pretty good. Pretty good. Except:

the unqualified achievemnts, success, and accomplishments of the most successful CEO (President) that the US has ever had at least in recent years.

Surely you meant to say, "EVER!"

Already barely halfway through just his first term, and dogged by an opposition party with nothing to do but obstruct, and a media so biased there are entire networks devoted to running him out of office, harassed the whole time for what we now know to be baseless charges, Trump has nevertheless already appointed record numbers of judges, slashed record amounts of growth-stifling regulations, gotten the US out of more crappy agreements (Paris climate, top of the list), and achieved the lowest unemployment rates EVER for blacks, hispanics, women, the disabled, and veterans. The Greatest President Ever has accomplished so much even a news junkie like me can hardly keep up with it all!

Now its early on, he still has 6 more good years to go, but already he is well into what history will show to be his greatest accomplishment, draining the swamp. Brennan is out. Comey is out. The best AG this country has had, at least in my lifetime, already has the countries best most experienced attorney hard at work and based on just what's come out so far I think we can look forward to a handful (at least) doing the perp walk and doing serious time.

In short ladies and gentlemen these people from Obama and Clinton and Brennan on down to Strzok and Page were involved in a coup attempt against a sitting US president. The coup failed. Trump has the courage to not only confront this, but say plainly to the people, "We have to make sure this never happens again."

The man had the perfect life, running a business he loved, with more money than he could ever spend. He sacrificed all that putting the nation first. The last one to do anything comparable was George Washington. 

@ghasley 

All I'm saying is that I don't mind paying tariffs on Chinese goods if that's what it takes to level the playing field with balanced trade agreements that give American factory workers a competitive chance.

I have, for the record, worked in China and today support several factories in China.  I  have worked in many countries, including Hong Kong, Singapore, Yugoslavia, Italy, Germany, France, Holland, Sweden and Turkey.  Not only do I have great respect for people of every country, I have learned that they are really no different than anyone else ... including us.  International economics is a team sport, however, and there is nothing insensitive or disrespectful about not allowing some of those other teams to cheat.

I don't recall knowing any South American students, but I do like the music.  I just this week picked up two Laurindo Almeida albums, one with Charlie Byrd and the other with Bud Shank.  Great stuff!  In the international spirit, I bought the one with Charlie Byrd from Japan ... I love those Japanese pressings and happily pay the extra shipping!

@millercarbon @clearthink 

Enough politics, even though I agree with you, tell us about your international equipment and music experiences!  Do you ever buy Chinese gear?  Would you be willing to pay tariffs on it?

Ok moderators, I understand now: “He sacrificed all that putting the nation first. The last one to do anything comparable was George Washington”. I guess we slid down the slippery slope huh?

Objectively @millercarbon you might have to admit that Fox News and Glenn Beck were not lifting up Obama or Clinton. It was just barely perceptible, but I think I caught the occasional barb. As to the congress and senate when Trump came in, I believe it was 3 elephants to no donkeys. You are right though, there is no credible, objective news organization NOT digging through the train car loads of “stuff”. Just too much smoke for a real journalist to leave it alone. The irony that you elected to mention Trump in the same sentence with Washington (I can not tell a lie) shouldn’t escape anyone with a sense of humor.

And yes, I do find this humorous. Examining the same set of facts and arriving at completely opposite conclusions is troubling. While Im am certain I am not exactly right, I know I am not completely wrong. In the meantime I’ll pay my taxes, occasionally shake my head in disbelief at the vast chasm between reality and futility. By the way, who knew Sean Spicer was an audiophile but he must be...he is alive and well and posting occasionally on this thread.

All I'm saying is that I don't mind paying tariffs on Chinese goods if that's what it takes to level the playing field with balanced trade agreements that give American factory workers a competitive chance.

Bingo! Free trade isn't really free when one side has to comply with protecting the snail darter while the other is free to belch out enough chemicals to light a river on fire. Is there a minimum wage in China? To pick just one item from one volume from the library of regulations US businesses must comply with. 

We can't, nor should we, tell other countries what laws they must have to be on equal terms. But we sure can make them pay a tax if they aren't. Its only fair.

So just today:.

1) its reported that Trump admin put the kebash on a climate change report that did not jive with the policy. To hell with mother earth......

2) NYT reports Mexico agreed to the actions to help with migrants a ways back


1984 indeed. Some people approve.

@miilercarbon

@nonoise

@david-pully

Miller, we can finally agree on something and I commend you for your insight. We SHOULD protect the environment and stand up for those creatures unable to protect themselves from extinction. We can all agree that a new strip mall or lead battery acid disposal site isn’t worth forcing any living creature into oblivion. And other neighbors on Earth SHOULD be careful with the air/oxygen we breathe and drink. We should live with high standards of character and human decency and expect others to do the same. In fact, we should require our friends and trading partners to be of high character and to honor their word at all times. So, we should put out a document where potential trading partners know the rules if they want to trade with us. Agree or we just won’t trade.

Any tariffs raised though should be allocated completely to those fellow citizens of ours whose jobs in the steel, coal, (insert industry with displaced jobs here) were shipped overseas or rendered obsolete. There is a small but thriving buggy whip maker in Catalonia who flat out stole American jobs because they didn’t charge enough for their whips. We should tariff the heck out their whips and give it our former whip makers who are now, heaven help us, forced to turn out bridles and belts. Who could disagree with that? Otherwise, it would be a tax, a revenue generation sleight of hand and that wouldn’t be honorable.

Rivers on fire? We have the Chinese beat on that one. Remember back in June of '69? The Cuyahoga River? How about tap water in some areas of the mid west being lit by a lighter for the last several years? All that good fracking and improper waste disposal that would make the Chinese blush.

All the best,
Nonoise

@ghasley 

Commendable recommendations but I see someone crying favoritism when it would be the right thing to do. Those on the right would call it a form of affirmative action or something equally silly.

Along the same lines, if we ever get off our asses and start manufacturing solar panels and the like (think light industry instead of heavy) those areas that were decimated by the very jobs they did, to support industries that turned their backs on them, should be at the top of the list when it comes to considering locations of said industry.

All the best,
Nonoise

ghasley writes:

Right. Like I am gonna copy that all over again here. As if.

Because, thing is, there was a whole laundry list of tangible accomplishments- regulations slashed, judges appointed, people put to work, jobs created. Not a one of which is being challenged or disputed. 

Then even more shocking, the president and Secty of State- Obama and Clinton- former CIA head Brennan, former FBI head Comey, are charged with a coup attempt. Trying to overturn an American election. Apparently now this is so uncontroversial a topic we can skip right past that to making George Washington jokes.

At least we know these points are now so widely known and well established even people who should want to argue know better.

Good. Progress. Now if only they can admit it to themselves.
 

Keep drinking that Cruel-Aid Pepe and you’ll have all the folk from 4chan and 8chan over here in no time. I’ve never seen someone so openly delusional as you. I’ve read about them but to have you representing views that have been laughed out of the mainstream press is disheartening, to say the least.

What's next? Green frog and nazi avatars?

All the best,
Nonoise

SO ... does anyone else like Laurindo Almeida? There are two albums in particular that every audiophile, regardless of KoolAid preference, should have. They are both direct-to-disc and of fidelity ne plus ultra. The first is LA4 ’Just Friends’, on Concord Jazz 1978. It showcases Laurindo Almeida with Bu dShanks, Ray Brown and Jeff Hamilton. The other is Ray Brown & Laurindo Almeida ’Moonlight Serenade’ on Jeton Records, 1981.

We may have our different interpretations of the same facts, but we all share a particular passion for great music superbly reproduced!

I picked up a hint of Django Reinhardt in his playing, minus the frenzy he was fond of. Also, he does a nice interpretation of Claire de Lune.

Brennan and Comey charged by whom? A valid court indictment or a birther indictment?

For the record it wasnt a George Washington joke...it was actually a Sesame Street reference... “which one of these is not like the other”? Probably shouldnt have been so vague, apologies. History will show a neck and neck race between the current occupant of the white house, Andrew Johnson and James Buchanan as the worst president in history. Im betting on the current occupant because, well, he more huger!

Can we all find some common ground? Surely there is something we can agree on. Like a bi-partisan 7-1 approval of Thurgood Marshall to the Supreme Court during the last year of Johnsons presidency. What about tubes absolutely kill solid state?

Speaking of fascists, there was a 75th Anniversary of allied forces landing in Normandy two days ago. That was a bloody and decisive campaign.
Any WWII veterans among us ? 

@ghasley 

I used to feel that tubes absolutely killed solid state on tonality.  But the design of solid state gear, especially with the shift from bipolar to field effect transistors, which are voltage controlled like tubes, and therefore clip into even order harmonics rather than odd, has closed the gap.  My current preference is for tubes all the way up to but not including the power amps, where I find myself preferring the punch of a good solid state amp.  I am, for the record, a Pass Labs fan when it comes to power amps.

@david_pully 

Tah-DAH!!! Since I know you’ve been waiting for this, I hereby, wholeheartedly, approve of your amp selection. I really like the lower power class A Pass amps and the XA25 is a work of art. I see they’ve come out with a XA25 integrated version and by the looks of it they figured out they originally underpriced the XA25. I think its over $8,000. While not nosebleed pricing for our hobby, that’ll sure buy alot red hats (I couldn’t resist).

Since I’m no longer into vinyl, I need the random but occasional interaction that comes with a tube roll or bias adjustment. LOL. i’m not looking for my system to be the audio version of a crisp white shirt, I enjoy a well broken in cashmere sweater.

@ghasley 

Having heard both, but not all, iterations of the two, I'll still take solid state. Although my Kinki is made in China, the designer is a big fan of the Swiss approach to solid state design and when using something like Exicon output devices, the sound is so seductive.

@inna 

I wasn't, but my dad was a vet from the Pacific Theater. It did a number on him and anyone who saw actual combat. Not the pacified version you see nowadays, but primitive, hand to hand combat in the harshest and most miserable of environs and conditions. 

People shouldn't forget what fascists are, how they operate and how easy it is to be lulled by their siren songs.

All the best,
Nonoise

@ghasley 

We are of kindred spirit after all!  You might find it interesting that I just replaced all the tubes in my preamp with brand new tubes from Russia.  They have never forsaken the art!

I, too, had abandoned vinyl during the period of digital ascendancy and gave away all of my records.  I was, like so many others, seduced by the signal to noise and the macrodynamics of those early CD's, especially those from Digital Music Products, Windham Hill and Private Music.  Many years later, frustrated at the difficulty of finding some of my favorites from the 60's and 70's on CD, I ventured back into vinyl.  My initial intent was to buy just those old album not found on CD.

What I didn't realize was that my early impressions of vinyl were based on entry level equipment playing records that had seen too many frat parties.  I got VPI Classic 3 with a Dynavector Te Kaitora Rua and nice Rogue Audio vacuum tube preamp.  I was stunned by what I heard coming off of LPs in mint condition.  Now I play vinyl almost exclusively, but it's not a religious thing with me ... I just found a copy of Medeski Martin and Wood on DVD-Audio.  Played on my Oppo 203, the sound is amazing!

nonoise, you are right.
There is that seduction of the evil, some are very responsive to it.
My relative died fighting them in Europe.

"....now, wouldn't it be nice if the populace (the world) would support and fund such important purchases...call it the environmental version of a stock buyback, to purchase large blocks of land to take it off the market forever."

Ted Turner does something like that.