@dman777
I'm not sure if I answered your question correctly, but if you are buying new, there are dealers that will offer discounts. If you are a serious buyer willing to spend $25K and a dealer balks because "we can't offer discounts," move on. Before COVID, I was offered 23% off MSRP on new McIntosh. Those price models are long gone, but 15% is possible. Also, hopefully, we will be in a recession by the end of the year and put downward pressure on all prices. This economy has been too good for way too long. Eventually, something is going to pop!