I installed a SR RED Quantum fuse in my ARC REF-3 preamp a few days ago, replacing an older high end fuse. Uhh ... for a hundred bucks, this little baby is well worth the cost. There was an immediate improvement upon installation, but now that its broken in (yes, no kidding), its quite remarkable. A tightening of the focus, a more solid image, and most important of all for my tastes, a deeper appreciation for the organic sound of the instruments. Damn! ... cellos sound great! Much improved attack on pianos. More humanistic on vocals. Bowed bass goes down forever. Next move? .... I'm doing the entire system with these fuses. One at a time though just to gauge the improvement in each piece of equipment. The REF-75se comes next. I'll report the results as the progression takes place. Stay tuned ...
Any comments from anyone else who has tried these fuses?
"Geoff, thank you for providing the thorough recap. However, as I see it those are not explanations, they are assertions. Or perhaps hypotheses would be a better term. To rise to the level of being explanations there has to be some basis (either analytical or empirical) to expect a reasonable possibility that the presumed lack of attention to those factors in stock fuses results in effects that are great enough in degree to be audibly harmful, in a broad range of applications."
Yes, Al, they’re assertions. They’re assertions why aftermarket fuses sound better than stock fuses. Skeptics keep clamoring for explanations, assertions, whatever. As if there is some deep unexplainable mystery here. There isn’t. Sorry to disappoint you and Mopman. Gee, whiz, are we now supposed to have to prove our assertions? Audio forums are built on assertions. You know, like this amp sounds better than that one, or these cables have more top end or this DAC has more transparency. Or this fuse elicits more details than that one. But at the same time, let me ask you, have you ever heard the expression, none so blind that will not see? That is also an assertion. Some folks can never seem to hoist themselves off the old LazyBoy and get to the bottom of these new fangled things. Investigation is the heart of all science.
Geoff, thank you for providing the thorough recap. However, as I see it those are not explanations, they are assertions. Or perhaps hypotheses would be a better term. To rise to the level of being explanations there has to be some basis (either analytical or empirical) to expect a reasonable possibility that the presumed lack of attention to those factors in stock fuses results in effects that are great enough in degree to be audibly harmful, in a broad range of applications.
And the fact that many people find the SR and other upgraded fuses to be beneficial does not constitute such a basis. If a Ferrari driven by a 160 pound driver is out-accelerated by a Lamborghini driven by a 159 pound driver, would you attribute the Lambo's victory to the difference in the weights of the drivers?
Now, if you were to ask if I have any better explanation to propose for the widely reported benefits, my answer would simply be "no."
Hi Geof, Appreciate the recap. I was addressing Mapman's stated need for sufficient technical explanations prior to making the decision to buy a product. Bottom Line is that we all have our own thresholds /criteria when making purchasing choices. Charles,
"I've all the appreciation for technical explanation and understanding the "why and how" something performs as it does. I'm eager for information and further education."
OK, looks like it's time for a recap. The modern aftermarket fuses sound better than stock fuses because,
1. Attention is paid to the directionality of the fuse. All wire is directional. Even stock fuses are directional.
2. Attention is paid to vibration, especially 60 Hz hum coming from you know where. Thus we have liquid filled fuses and ceramic body fuses. Too bad fuses don't address the magnetic field coming from you know where.
3. Attention is paid to RFI/EMI.
4. Attention is paid to conductivity of the fuse (by using higher purity wire and/or end caps).
" Geoffkait, your product line should come with an open guarantee e.g., "Whenever in your life you realize you have been duped, your money will be cheerfully refunded." But, since most noob audiophiles can't find their ass with both hands within 30 days, your profit margin has probably remained fairly safe."
Relax, it's only a hobby. Nothing to get all twitchy about.
Perhaps even more relevant to this thread is the description (on the same page) of Audio Magic’s Premier Super Fuse. Please note use of blackout powder in the Premier Super Fuse. Sound familiar? Is that ringing any bells for anybody? Apparently and I hate to jump to any conclusions here but SR was not the first one to use carbon for EMI/RFI rejection/absorption in fuses.
Audio Magic Premiere SUPER fuse: The Audio Magic Premiere SUPER fuse incorporates Audio Magic’s anti vibration fluid to stop the element from vibrating at 50/60 hz and then the blackout powder super mix to absorb all EMI and RFI riding the element as well as ambient sources and insert a new HRC core which allows the signal to travel through the fuse in a more cohesive and linear manner. The Premier SUPER fuse is 30% better than the Audio Magic’s original SUPER fuse in every way!
Geoff Kait machina dynamica we do artificial atoms right!
Here are some normal fuses pumped with bees wax, but I found that if I saved my ear wax and injected it, it was soooo much better, the difference was night and day, and my ears were cleaned out as a bonus.
The key to sucess (and wealth) is to help as many people get what THEY want first. If one does that, then one gets what one wants almost every time in return. Another old adage ... "Money is nothing more than a scoreboard reflection of one's service to others."
Yes--happy customers should be what matters most in this hobby of being made happy by dramatically presented music. Everyone should get what he or she wants from the audio industry and marketplace--what else would be the point? Geoffkait, your product line should come with an open guarantee e.g., "Whenever in your life you realize you have been duped, your money will be cheerfully refunded." But, since most noob audiophiles can't find their ass with both hands within 30 days, your profit margin has probably remained fairly safe.
Hi Mapman, To be clear, I've all the appreciation for technical explanation and understanding the "why and how" something performs as it does. I'm eager for information and further education, so I understand your perspective. The thing is that even if I'm given a suitable technical explanation I'd still need to "hear" it to determine the merits of the product.
Conversely if given the opportunity to listen to an audio product I can judge its worth and merits without any understanding of the underlying mechanism. Either it sounds good or it doesn't. No doubt that it's good to know why/what a product does on a technical level that satisfies one's curiosity quest. This knowledge won't answer the key question, how does it sound? There are things heard in High End audio that have yet to be fully (or in some cases partially ) explained. Charles,
"Hey, my favorite overposter is back and
rested. You go girl!"
The laugh of the night! :-)
I had the HiFi Tuning fuses in the system prior to changing them out for the SR Reds.
The 60 day trial on the HiFi tuning fuses IS twice a good at the SR trial period ... BUT the SR Red fuses are at least twice as good as the HiFi Tuning fuses.
The SR Black fuses blow the whole shebang down the tubes.
Charles ... You're right. I'm done trying to convince the naysayers. It's akin to trying to convince Rappers to listen to Bebop or straight ahead jazz. Or akin to turning a dyed in the wool Justin Beiber fan on to Sarah Vaughn.
"You’re correct, ,the 30 day return policy isn’t unique but it is certainly useful and provides ample time for a thorough audition at home. I wish all audio products offered adequate return policy arrangements."
I’m pretty sure almost all audio products do actually offer a 30 day return policy. I have 30 products some of which are some of the most esoteric around and they all come with a 30 day return policy. You cannot hang your hat on the SR return policy. Now, I’m not suggesting SR gets many returns if any. They probably don’t. I don’t think I’ve seen where anyone said, "Gosh, this thing really sucks!" Frankly, I think the best course is to focus on SR's technology which actually seems to be unique. You know the Quantum Tunneling, the Graphene.
" as Charles has said it’s the listening that matters not the technology. "
Thing is you have to buy to listen. Seller benefits first. Maybe even in the end if not returned.
You have to make the decision of what to try and buy next based on something. It can’t be listening if you don’t have it yet. Unless you hop over to a friends or dealers and do some serious listening to various fuses.
Just trying to stick to bankable facts. What we hear is what we hear. No one else hears those facts directly or even the same way.
This thread cracks me up, as Charles has said it's the listening that matters not the technology. And the 30 day return policy aside if you buy one fuse if $120 shipped and in the context of money I've spent on this hobby well it's nothing. I'm by no means wealthy but it seems worth checking out at that price pretty much a no lose situation. Of course YMMV but that's the fun of this hobby isn't it?
You're correct, ,the 30 day return policy isn't unique but it is certainly useful and provides ample time for a thorough audition at home. I wish all audio products offered adequate return policy arrangements. Charles,
In the interest of fair play and accuracy, from what I gather from the Music Direct page for HiF Tuning fuses there is actually a 60-day guarantee for HiFi Tuning fuses. Besides everybody and his brother offers a 30 day money back guarantee for just anything you can think of. Heck, I even offer a 30 day money back guarantee on the Teleportation Tweak. Hel-loo! So you cannot hang your hat on a 30 day money back guarantee for SR fuses.its nice, but it’s not unique. And it’s actually only half as good as HiFi Tuning’s guarantee.
The beauty of the SR fuses is the 30 day return policy. You like the fuse, you buy. You don't like them, return them and get your refund. No harm, no foul. Makes sense to me. Charles,
Mapman, No one's disagreeing with the reality of different results with the fuses and who is glossing anything over? You reported your results and I and others accept/respect that, no big deal. My point is that Frank doesn't need to convince the skeptical. We all form our own conclusions and that's that. Your opinion of the fuses is no more or less credible than my or anyone else on this thread. It's an open forum and many impressions have been stated here. Charles,
Fancy fuses are obviously not for everyone. Is there something wrong with that?
Not everyone who bites apparently gets the same results. Some more, some less, some negative some none perhaps.
To me its not reasonable to gloss things over and think that everyone will play the game and will get the same results. Look I tried and the music I am most familiar with still sounds pretty much the same. So I should wait a hundred hours of burn in time for that magical transformation to occur? One better be prepared to get that in before the 30 days is up for sure.
Frank (Oregonpapa ), You have genuine good intentions no doubt, but why waste your time on the skeptical few ? Your thread has reached ànd enlightened many who have expressed joy and gratitude for these superb fuses. If someone is unconvinced and set in their ways regarding a product that they have no familiarity with, why bother? Listening is the final arbitrator. Charles,
wolf ... people you don't trust? Like who, for example? The folks at highend-electronics are completely trustworthy. Highly recommended.
The break-in time for me with the Black fuses came at around 70 hours ... not hundreds of hours.
You don't need to re-fuse your entire system to hear what the Black fuse does. Just replace one fuse in one component. You'll hear certain improvements right away ... but the most significant results will be attained after the 70 hours. Do you have a CD player? If so, just put the fuse in there and run it on repeat 24/7 for three days, then take a listen.
It really doesn't matter HOW SR treats the fuses, its the end results that count. Hey, I don't care if they scoured the Amazonian jungles to find the very Shaman who concocted the jungle juice that coats the fuses, or if they climbed to the higher regions of the Alps to find the fairy that has the magic dust that's sprinkled over the fuses. It doesn't matter. Only the music matters.
With a 30 day return policy, how can you go wrong???
To "take the plunge" for 30 days means hundreds of dollars sent to people I don't trust, a time period to test fuses that would be rendered useless if the fuse was in backwards, and a very expensive proposition to replace all of the fuses in my rig…each supposedly requiring hundreds of hours of break-in time after which I'm supposed to remember what my system was doing before being festooned with the things. Balderdash. Even if they sold these things for the $2 they may be worth (I simply don't believe that SR is actually bombing the things with magical tesla volts or runs them through some precious alleged quantum process) I wouldn't replace my normal fuses unless one blew. When a reasonable explanation of how a fuse overcomes its fuse holder's less precious metal, gets the mojo past the power supply, rectification circuits, and myriad other components, and results in actual improvements (not simply opinions from the faithful who drank the kool aid) noticed by sane people working in audio design who's opinions I actually do respect (Nelson Pass…please try these fuses!) I will firmly remain the (seemingly) lone skeptic. Another note for Oregonpapa…the higher frequencies in music have harmonic content that acts acoustically with harmonic content in lower (if isolated by testing more readily hearable) frequencies and makes music sound natural. The simple statement of "can't hear over 10KHZ" is irrelevant as regards musical events.
so if magnets were placed in their own sub category then the user base would be <10..meaning that all of f. is missing the sonic benefit of the magnetic link. Not UL approved but approved by my sonic receptors. Tom
Poll: How many audiophiles have purchased aftermarket fuses in the past 15-20 years? Whenever Isoclean and HiFi Tuning began selling them. I'm looking for the number of audiophiles not the number of fuses, which would obviously be much higher. Much much higher.
a. 500 b. 1000 c. 2000 d. 5,000 e. 10,000 f. 20,000
Hi Gary, You are part of an ever growing number of listeners who have tried the SR Black fuses with very successful results in your system. I'm glad you discovered this thread.
Hi David, I don't follow any specific protocol in regard to new tubes. I just let them acquire accumulated hours of burn in through regular use. There certainly could be a more effective approach than that , but I just play music.
Jond and Frank,(and anyone else who is interested ) Here are two Ben Webster recordings I really enjoy. "Ben Webster Meets Don Byas" and "Gerry Mulligan Meets Ben Webster " Both are stereo recordings from the early 1960s with as expected beautiful music. Charles,
New fuse and new tubes! No wonder the night came early. Normally I would say leave your system on for 75 hours and then go to some on and off cycles to get to the 100 + hour mark. But not so with new tubes. Perhaps a better tube break in + fuse break in, would be on cycles of four to six hours with a short off cycle. George at Tube USA does believe tube break in should be done correctly.
Perhaps Charles has some thoughts and experience on this topic.
mapman:
Synergistic Research's website is never complete. A better source of their latest communication is on their Facebook site and their YouTube videos. The best way to get information is to go to "Rocky Mountain Audio Fest", Denver, in October, or "The Show at Newport Beach, Calif "- June 2-4 (this year). Talking to the people who designed, tested , and build these products is very worthwhile. This approach applies to many other audio companies also.
I am looking forward to seeing Oregonpappa at Newport this year.
It is going to be very interesting in how Graphene affects our lives. Samsung has committed One Billion Dollars to Graphene research this year.
So I found this thread a while back, spent some spare time reading through it and since already having first hand experience with power cords and wall receptacle changes I had to give the SR black fuse a try. Ordered one for my power amplifier from highend-electronics on March 7th installed it and left the amp on for about 80 hours, I must say quite impressed with the improvements. Even though there are a number of areas of improvement I was most happy with the increased micro dynamics, for me its mostly the fine details that make music so enjoyable. After that I had to get one for my phono stage, that being a Fosgate Signature that I have spent significant time finding a tube compliment that sounds good to me in my system. Out went those tubes in went tubes of no consequence, installed the black fuse, powered it up for over 80 hours then put my listening tubes back in and fired it back up, this was yesterday and I am just amazed at the overall improvement. Count me in as a believer in the SR black fuse! Next up is a black for my Classe CT-SSP, I am sure it will make a difference, a power cord and receptacle change made a significant improvement. I will post my thoughts after this happens. Thanks to everyone here,for making me aware of this wonderful and cost effective opportunity to greatly improve the enjoyment of listening to music on my home system. I truly think that trying to achieve a similar improvement with equipment upgrades would be very expensive, out of my reach at any rate. Thank you oregonpapa for starting this thread and for your continuing interaction, I really got a good laugh from your popcorn post! Gary
"Talking about Ben Webster and Lester Young ... Last night I dug deep into the vinyl vault and came up with an old mono recording on the "Jazztone" label that I’ve had in the collection since the 1950’s. These were compilation recordings featuring a combo of jazz players. Well ... there they were, Lester Young and Chu Berry."
True story. I bought the jazz record collection of the white dude who played with Lester Young’s band from the dude’s widow in DC back in the 90s. I'm not hot doggin' ya.
As I've said before, I really enjoy your sense of humor. Once again you had me laughing at the prospect that you consider the SR Black fuses to be "Voodoo" without experiencing them yourself. So ... I call your "Voodoo" nothing but "DooDoo." :-)
Talking about Ben Webster and Lester Young ... Last night I dug deep into the vinyl vault and came up with an old mono recording on the "Jazztone" label that I've had in the collection since the 1950's. These were compilation recordings featuring a combo of jazz players. Well ... there they were, Lester Young and Chu Berry.
With the combination of the AT ART-9, the SR Level 3 power cords and the SR Black fuses now resting comfortably in the system, these mono recordings are quite exhilarating and emotionally connecting.
How anyone can deny the positive influence of the Graphene technology and the way SR applies it is beyond me. Look, at my (I hate to admit it) advanced age, and according to a test record I have, I cannot hear above 10,000 cycles. All else in the hearing being okay, even I can hear the improvements these products provide. I'm eternally grateful that 90% of what we get out of our systems comes to us in the form of the mid-range.
And just to ramble on (advanced age, remember?) ... i'm not sure its important for anyone in our hobby to hear beyond 10,000 cycles anyway. I can still hear quite clearly a softly struck triangle in the back of an orchestra. Is there anything I'm missing?
Dear wolf-garcia ... take the plunge young man. Try one of the SR Black fuses. Thirty-day return policy, right? Nothing to lose, right?
"I hope they shed some light on the Graphene question. Geoff seems to think its used in the casing for shielding which might be fine but the vendor blurbs mention nothing about that but do cite the several million times more conductive thing."
Oh, did I mention Graphene is one atom in thickness? I hate to judge things too quickly but I'll go out on a limb and predict you won't see any Graphene wires in fuses anytime soon.
charles1dad thanks and glad to hear you ordered them hope you enjoy. And moved onto Lester Young in DC now and so far so good. Retubed my preamp yesterday too so things just are sounding great right now.
Hi Jond, I like your taste in music (Webster and Evans) . I did order the Tim Warfield and Chris Mcgregor recordings you had recommended to me on my system page recently. The Black fuse will only get better with time. Charles,
So tonight came a little early just fired up the system for a first listen and first impressions, 5 minutes in to take with a grain of salt please, things seem a bit more relaxed. Not soft or slow sounding just a bit more organic and a more relaxed flow to things. That's on just two tracks Ben Webster "When I Fall In Love and Bill Evans "Isn't It Romantic" from Live at Shellys Manne-hole. So far so good.
My black fuse arrived today from highend-electronics great service and shipped Sunday and here Wednesday going cross country! My 3rd transaction with these guys great service each time and love the free shipping. Installed the fuse but won't have a chance to listen until tonight so will update you all later.
Does anyone not see the irony in the Wolfman’s belief that electrons are moving through the fuse and the fact that he’s the only one who doesn’t believe in aftermarket fuses? On another note, Mapman apparently did not get my memo concerning the relationship between RFI shielding and very high conductivity nor has he feasted his eyes on an actual SR Black fuse, not even a photo of one, otherwise he could see the Graphene. Remember, Mopman, Google is your friend. Besides, of what conceivable value would an extremely high conductivity fuse have when every other wire and cable in system is copper? Hel-loo!
geoff at Machina Dynamica we do artificial atoms right
Charles, thanks. That’s what I was assuming. I guess eventually SR will update their website to reflect the newer product.
I hope they shed some light on the Graphene question. Geoff seems to think its used in the casing for shielding which might be fine but the vendor blurbs mention nothing about that but do cite the several million times more conductive thing.
I’m hoping these things will be clarified at some point in the future. Many may not care about technical details but some do.
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