I installed a SR RED Quantum fuse in my ARC REF-3 preamp a few days ago, replacing an older high end fuse. Uhh ... for a hundred bucks, this little baby is well worth the cost. There was an immediate improvement upon installation, but now that its broken in (yes, no kidding), its quite remarkable. A tightening of the focus, a more solid image, and most important of all for my tastes, a deeper appreciation for the organic sound of the instruments. Damn! ... cellos sound great! Much improved attack on pianos. More humanistic on vocals. Bowed bass goes down forever. Next move? .... I'm doing the entire system with these fuses. One at a time though just to gauge the improvement in each piece of equipment. The REF-75se comes next. I'll report the results as the progression takes place. Stay tuned ...
Any comments from anyone else who has tried these fuses?
"So much for the respect thread " Mapman I have no idea what is going on with you and joecasey. As an open forum people are free to comment (good or bad ). With well over 2200 posts on this thread, overwhelming the attitude and decorum has been exceptionally good relative to most large threads here and elsewhere. Perhaps you and joecasey can settle this privately rather than continuing on this good-hearted thread. Charles,
Mapman, I didn’t say derogatory comments are acceptable, unfortunately they do happen occasionally , I thought my earlier post made that pretty clear. I also made this same point regarding labtec’s comments towards Oregonpapa. A few negative posts don’t change the tone of a large and predominantly friendly thread. The post that offended you is deleted so a good outcome ultimately. By the way Mapman I addressed you as you took the time /effort to post your concern /displeasure with joecasey and add a comment about "respect" in regard to this thread. Charles
My earlier post "I cant wait to hear" was made on the premise Wolf-Garcia's post was in good humor. Oregonpapa's post clearly indicate he was of a similar opinion.
I still have no idea what's going on but do hope this matter ends well.
OP, not to belabor a tangential issue, but to add some clarification to the recent discussion Mapman was referring to the first paragraph of your post dated 7-16-2016 1:17pm EDT, on page 45 of the thread, which began with the words "Oh my gawd! I just spewed my morning coffee all over my computer screen." A subsequent sentence in that paragraph quoted from the now deleted post by Mr. Casey.
My suggestion to everyone is that when disrespectful personal attacks are posted that the offended member click the "Report This" link that appears in the lower right corner of every post when that location is pointed to, select "abusive towards another member" as the reason for the report, add any relevant comments, and click "send report."
"My suggestion to everyone is that when disrespectful personal attacks are posted that the offended member click the "Report This" link that appears in the lower right corner of every post when that location is pointed to, select "abusive towards another member" as the reason for the report, add any relevant comments, and click "send report."
Of course the other sure fire way of dealing with offensive or disrespectful behavior is tell your mommy.
By the way Al, I was cruising through the AT ART-9 thread last night and was wondering how you like your’s now that its broken in?
Wonderful in every way :-) I’m forever indebted to you, Pani, and the several other members whose posts inspired me to purchase it!
I should note, though, that very shortly before purchasing it I also purchased a Herron VTPH-2 phono stage (that acquisition also having been inspired largely by the glowing praise it has just about universally received here and elsewhere), and it’s hard to say which of the two items has been the greater contributor to the improvement in my system. Although it’s certainly safe to say that both have been major factors.
To add some context, previously I was using a Soundsmith re-tipped Grace F9E Ruby moving magnet cartridge, and the phono section of a vintage but well regarded Mark Levinson ML-1 preamplifier as my phono stage (accessed via its tape outputs). The ML-1 and various incarnations of the Grace F9E served me well for many years, but the new combo is in a different league altogether.
No knock on the Mark Levinson Phono section but I'd expect the Herron to be a considerable improvement based on its long term universal praise from very happy owners. Charles,
Thanks for the response, Al. I'm delighted that you've found the ART-9 to be so enjoyable. Now, this kind of fits into this thread very nicely. I had no idea what a great bargain (if one can call $1100.00 for a cartridge a bargain), it really is. I've had mine for just about a year now, and over the past year, there has been some very significant improvements to the system in the way of new PC's, new IC's, new speaker cables and some real nice room treatments. Honestly Al, what I'm getting out of my vinyl rig at this point is quite mind blowing.
Again, I'm so happy that you are finding the same thing. Kudos to Pani.
I installed the SR black fuse in my Shindo Auregies - TOTAL MAGIC - I now hear the plucking of the strings, detail that I never knew existed - not to repeat, but like the "fog has been lifted"
This is the best and cheapest upgrade ever - hands down. Anyhow with a Shindo pre-amp MUST buy one!!
At this point, no interest in upgrading my preamp, but a SR Black fuse in a Masseto or VR.....................
Congratulations on the sonic improvement, and having the courage to try an improved fuse. For me the Synergistic Research Black fuse has improved the sound in everything from the inexpensive Home Theater ZVOX self powered speakers to the expensive custom Fred Voltz - Emotion Type 45 tube amp.
I can feel your excitement and am happy for your discovery.
Jib222, Thanks for your sharing of listening impressions regarding the Shindo preamplifier. The results of the Black fuse has been very consistent across a multitude of brands of audio components. This thread is witness to that and quite emphatically I might add. I'm happy that this thread provided you awareness of an effective affordable tweak. Charles,
Hi Jib222, I just took a look at your system page. With the type of system you've assembled I believe that you have a very realistic and natural presentation. It must sound fabulous! Charles,
Thanks - I actually have upgraded the amp to a Dared MP2a3, modified by Chris Johnson at Parts Connexion & EAR 834P w/ NOS RCA 12ax7 tubes, so even better now! Will update my page soon.
I hope you will be able to try The Synergistic Research ECT's (Electronic Circuit Transducers) on your 300B and 2A3 amps. I am very happy with the sonic enhancement I am hearing with the ECT's on my PX-25 amp, Type 45 tube amp and the recently purchased 300B amp.
Today "nmmusician" in the Misc. forum suggested a Synergistic Research HFT (High Frequency Transducer) be placed on top of the Rectifier tube. Having a spare HFT on hand I decided to give it a try.
This simple tweak has really brought forth a fuller and more emotional sounding music using the 300B amp. A fun and exciting experiment. And no 150 hour break in to endure! It either works or it does not.
Hey…why hasn't anybody posted anything in two days about SR's imaginary and unexplainable patently useless over hyped tweaks? Is the momentum gone? Has every naive Magic Tweak Seeker given up? Come on people, SR needs that money! Hype isn't free (except in this forum)! Maybe nonsense is on a summer break...
Ok Wolfe. It is nice to hear you have missed the praising of synergestic and Ted Denny. Me to. I have been holding back. But here you go. The 2 synergistic reds I have put in made an improvement in my system on the order on living on Vermont place and moving to park place on the monopoly board. And speaking of monopoly my experience with these fuses tells me synergistic must have the monopoly on all that.stuff we are calling hype. Anyway if the black fuses improve anything more, which has been verified by a margine of 25 to one on this thread, I think we could trust synergestic to rule the audio world. You shoud have one of the musicians record something to that effect, you writing the high praise for them to put the music to of course. Maybe the audio mags will make the black fuse not just the buget audio product of the year but the audio product of all time in the past into all the future.
A $125 fuse is hardly budget (about 20 times as expensive as a normal fuse like those used by pretty much every amp designer), but I can agree that these fuses are exactly like living on a Monopoly board…the benefits are imaginary. Cute little aluminum cupped dots called "transducers"…you can make those things for 50 cents with a hacksaw and a Dremmel, and they still make no sense. I’ll keep waiting for an explanation…Ted…help me out here man…Ted…talk to me...
wolf_garcia 2,545 posts 07-27-2016 4:11am A $125 fuse is hardly budget (about 20 times as expensive as a normal fuse like those used by pretty much every amp designer)."
Wolfman, you might be looking at this fuse thing the wrong way. It’s not that the aftermarket fuse is 20 times more expensive than a normal fuse, it’s that the $125 fuse provides more boost to sound quality than many other expenditures of $125. Perhaps more than some expenditures of $500. That's what makes aftermarket fuses cost effective.
I hate to judge before all the facts are in but it appears pretty much every amp designer didn’t get the memo about using better fuses. One imagines they’re the same amp designers who didn’t get the memo about wire directionality.
"I don't order anything from a company that I feel makes up ethically questionable technobabble ad copy ..."
So, without ever trying any of the SR fuses or any of the other SR products, somehow Wolfie feels justified to just sit high up on his pedestal and pass down judgement on what others should buy, what others should use, what others hear and how others should spend their money.
I'll bet there's a great job waiting for Wolfie somewhere deep down in one of the dusty, no longer necessary, bureaus in Washington D.C.
Wolfie ... a prime candidate for a central planner if ever there was one.
In the meantime, Robert (Mr. Record) came over for a listening session last night. I dug deep into the jazz vault and pulled out a CD copy of the Chico Hamilton Quintet. Gotta say ... Eric Dolphy and Fred Katz were right there in the room. Wow!
Next? Another five-pack of the HFT's and one more Black fuse. After that? A set of the PHT's for the cartridge and a whole bunch of the ECT's for the electronics.
The scary thing is Geffkait’s assertion that its the shielding nature of the casing used for the fuse (use of Graphene in the casing not the internal filament) that delivers results at least makes sense. The problem is it is only a theory with nothing concrete to confirm it. . Nothing I have seen in vendor literature "technobable" or elsewhere confirms this claim. Am I missing something? Geoff, how do you know this is the case? If it is, you'd think the vendor would say so.
This is an example of what I think Wolf is talking about when questioning SR's literature.
My views are never locked in stone. New findings can always change them.
I’m glad people think they sound good, but that can be said for many things so alone is not much to go on. I guess not many things promoted on this site can be had for a mere $100 or so. I think that is a lot of the appeal. Its a cheap thing to try on the grand scale of things in these parts. Just like Machina Dynamica. Not so much anywhere else. Its like shopping the Nordstrom budget basement. You never know what great deal you might find. :^)
Value is in the eyes and ears of the listener. YMMV.
mapman 13,527 posts 07-27-2016 11:38am The scary thing is Geffkait’s assertion that its the shielding nature of the casing used for the fuse (use of Graphene in the casing not the internal filament) that delivers results at least makes sense. The problem is it is only a theory with nothing concrete to confirm it. . Nothing I have seen in vendor literature "technobable" or elsewhere confirms this claim. Am I missing something? Geoff, how do you know this is the case? If it is, you'd think the vendor would say so.
Yes, you're missing something, grasshopper. This is just another one of your classic, "Gee Whiz, I've looking all around the Internet but I can't find anything," beauties.
Mapman also offered this,
"This is an example of what I think Wolf is talking about when questioning SR's literature."
Or maybe he's just another all thumbs Googler.
Mapman also opined,
"My views are never locked in stone. New findings can always change them."
They're not locked in stone. They're locked in Jello.
Mapman also philosophized,
"I’m glad people think they sound good, but that can be said for many things so alone is not much to go on. I guess not many things promoted on this site can be had for a mere $100 or so. I think that is a lot of the appeal. Its a cheap thing to try on the grand scale of things in these parts. Just like Machina Dynamica. Not so much anywhere else. Its like shopping the Nordstrom budget basement. You never know what great deal you might find. :^)"
mapman 13,528 posts 07-27-2016 12:00pm Unfortunately Geoff just attacks me and clarifies nothing asked. Just more of the typical pattern of obfuscation.
I’ve explained it too you many times, grasshopper. You just refuse to listen. Either that or you cannot understand the simplest thing.
Oregonpapa has conveniently forgotten the fact that I DID test the SR black fuses in my system and wrote about it here (posted on 7-13), finding that they delivered absolutely nothing to the sound of my system (this test was a monumental waste of time, but I felt it had to be done so I could continue my criticism of this nonsense). This result wasn't surprising since, hey, they're FUSES…and I am with mapman regarding the fact that SR doesn't provide ANY worthwhile rational explanation of why or how any of their products work. However, SR's business plan is fairly brilliant as charging big bucks for placebo-esque magic products that clearly cost a fraction of their retail cost to manufacture (maybe the drill press used to hollow out the tiny aluminum Electronic Circuit Transducers which should be re-labeled "Aluminum Profit Producers" was expensive, although the Chinese factory that makes 'em likely has plenty of tools around) seems to be working out well…as long as "seekers" have Oregonpapa and others to "tell them how to spend their money" (!) on incredibly vague ethically questionable products, SR will continue on. Graphene indeed.
Only one problem. Real two dimensional single atom thickness Graphene is transparent. One assumes Graphene can be layered onto another material for ease of use. Or it could be layered one Graphene layer on another or laid onto a substrate of carbon or graphite, the former of which would somewhat reduce Graphene’s effectiveness but one imagines it would still be relatively effective. The latter is more likely since it would be easier to handle and control and attach. The strength of Graphene which is huge would also be reduced if made into a three dimensional material of layered Graphene, but still be stronger than dirt.
How does one handle a material that is two dimensional, transparent and weightless? Very carefully. Graphene - the Emperor's new clothes?
Hi jetter, In general terms I agree with your simple logic statement. Where I differ is I believe fine tuning tweaks enhance even excellent quality audio systems. The foundation of my system (source, electronics and speakers )is 7 years old and will remain unchanged for the foreseeable future. Trying premium fuses was a simple proposition, either there's improvement or there is not.
The Black fuses made a noticeable and positive difference so they stayed. A system I truly appreciated and enjoyed pre Black fuses simply became more so ☺. I am a firm believer in that virtually all audio systems can benefit with careful fine tuning. I respect the fact that we may disagree on this viewpoint, that's okay. Charles,
My SR fuse saga continues to amaze at the opening up of every new audio horizon I am hearing. SR Blacks in my Maggies, in my ARC monos, in my Wadia are bringing forth new clarity and weight. As the designer of quality amps remarked on this thread, attention must be paid to the purity of the AC signal--details do matter. Wolf--your lack of results suggests your system is just not up to the capabilities of SR Blacks, but I have to say thanks for trying just so you could go on bashing all us naive dopes--and now with a new standard of integrity, known only to yourself. If you would list your system components and signal paths, many here would be happy to help you achieve better sound. If not, best wishes.
"
Oregonpapa has conveniently forgotten the fact that I DID test the SR black fuses in my system and wrote about it here (posted on 7-13), finding that they delivered absolutely nothing to the sound of my system"
Then he sez this:
"
"I don't order anything from a company that I feel makes up ethically questionable technobabble ad copy ..."
So, either he sticks by his principles or he doesn't. Which is it, Wolfie? How did you try the fuse if you didn't order it? Again, there's a job waiting for you in Washington D.C. Its called the Bureau of Flexible Principles." Very popular in that city these days.
To Jetter ...
I started to fool around with these SR tweaks about a year ago,. I loved the sound of my system before I put the first SR Red fuse in the system that started this thread. In fact, I loved the sound of my system when I was using a modified Dyna 70 and a modified Dyna PAS-3 preamp back in the early 70's. It was a nice musical system.
The quest for me has always been to get closer to the actual performance, with the correct tonality of the instruments being at the forefront of the system.
A year ago, if you would have told me that I had to live with the system "as is" for the rest of my life, I would have been perfectly satisfied. Would I want to go back to that system today? Hell no. Why would I?
What I have developed in my system over the past year, with the help of Synergistic Research and their products, is way beyond what I thought it could be. Do I love the system's sound now? Yep. Will I continue trying to develop it further? Yep. And why not? Its what we audiophiles do.
Quite honestly, I wish I could have everyone who contributed to this thread over the past year over for a listening session ... even Wolfie.
I'm listening to a LOT more cello music than ever before, how about you? Lord, the beauty of that instrument comes through now with such reality, and brings forth so much emotion, I can only imagine what it would sound like on your big Maggies driven by those Mono ARC amps.
On Wolfie's system ... I suspect that he's more into PA systems than music systems. I too, would love to see pictures of his system, his room and the entire setup. Will Wolfie take the challenge? Probably not.
OP, you are so right on the increased depth and definition of low strings, any strings. I must play more classical. There are some tweaks that you just get such a kick out of--because they are cheap, or you dreamed it up and did it yourself and it all brings such added value to the gear we may have wanted to replace. The SR fuses are an exceptional value--I'm glad I have followed along to go from the Reds to the Blacks. Whatever is next--I would do it again.
"I DID test the SR black fuses in my system and wrote about it here [posted on 7-13], finding that they delivered nothing to the sound of my system. This test was a monumental waste of time"
The effects of the Synergistic Research black fuses may be non-existent, subtle or profound. It simple depends on what system factors you have addressed, and to what degree your system is performing. Genuine audiophiles who have addressed issues of power conditioning, high quality cabling, tuned acoustics and isolation of mechanical resonance of components have no difficulties in hearing the benefits.
IF YOU DO NOT HEAR THE BENEFITS [OF THE BLACK FUSES] YOUR SYSTEM IS NOT PERFORMING OPTIMALLY.
Of course there may be other factors holding back your system and obscuring the benefits. If this is the case professional help is advised.If professional assistance do not cure the problem, I am afraid you have to accept the fact that you are simply inept.
One more thing. You stated "they [the SR black fuses] delivered nothing to the sound of my system" This statement is incorrect. The fuses delivered information which your system was unable to convey, BECAUSE IT IS NOT A HIGH RESOLUTION SYSTEM.
There is, however, one statement you made with which I am in complete agreement. "THIS WAS A MONUMENTAL WASTE OF TIME"
Nyame 7-28-2016 7:09am EDT IF YOU DO NOT HEAR THE BENEFITS [OF THE BLACK FUSES] YOUR SYSTEM IS NOT PERFORMING OPTIMALLY.
As I, Atmasphere, and others have pointed out in a number of past threads, the ability of a system to resolve hardware differences does not necessarily go hand in hand with its musical resolution or its sonic quality.
Just to cite a few examples, a preamplifier having high output impedance will be more revealing of interconnect cable differences than one having low output impedance, everything else being equal, due mainly to its increased sensitivity to cable capacitance. A speaker having low impedance and/or highly capacitive phase angles will be more revealing of amplifier differences than a speaker having more benign impedance characteristics, everything else being equal, because (simply put) it is a more challenging load. Components having **well designed** balanced interfaces will be less revealing of interconnect cable differences than components that are connected single-ended, everything else being equal, for several reasons. None of those differences in sensitivity to hardware necessarily have anything to do with the musical resolution or sonic quality of the components or the system.
Countless other comparable examples could be cited.
I would not be so quick to allege that the reason someone having many decades of experience as a professional sound engineer and a musician did not hear an improvement after trying these fuses in five different components (amp, preamp, dac, phono stage, subwoofers) over a period of weeks is that his system is inadequate.
Oregonpapa 7-27-2016 9:03pm EDT How did you [Wolfie] try the fuse if you didn’t order it?
"I would not be so quick to allege that the reason someone having many decades of experience as a professional sound engineer and a musician did not hear an improvement after trying these fuses in five different components (amp, preamp, dac, phono stage, subwoofers) over a period of weeks is that his system is inadequate."
The problem with the statement that a person with decades of experience (as a professional) in the audio industry is that it is a Strawman Argument, specifically an appeal to authority. It’s a logical fallacy to assume someone with a lot of experience - even if it’s in the relevant field - is correct in any argument, even in the field in which he claims to be expert. Things are not that simple. If I had a dime for every person who said, I have been an audiophile for 30 years and I know such and such" I’d be a rich man.
As I’ve stated on previous occasions there are actually man perfectly valid reasons why someone, even a so called expert, might not get the results he was looking for with some audiophile tweaks. Not to mention with some cables, CD players, speakers, or room treatments. Not too mention Intelligent Chips, Mpingo discs, Tice Clocks, you know, things that really get skeptics’ juices flowing. System resolution issues is certainly one of the reasons why someone might not get good results, but it’s definitely not the only reason. In addition to all of that I kind of doubt Wolfman would actually be forthcoming if he had had good results with the Black Fuses, you know, given the amount of energy he’s got invested in being Troll #1.
The last major improvement I made with SR products was to place ten SR High Frequency Transducers (HFT's) around the room as per the directions. There's no electronic signal going through these little devises, and yet the increase in image solidity, clarity, bass control and overall musicality was not subtle at all. I, and my audiophile friends, heard the overall pleasing effects immediately. The improvement gained is far in excess of the price of the product.
What does Wolfie - our central planner and resident member of the Flexible Principles Bureau have to say about this product? Here, have a look:
"However, SR's business plan is fairly brilliant as charging big bucks for placebo-esque magic products that clearly cost a fraction of their retail cost to manufacture (maybe the drill press used to hollow out the tiny aluminum Electronic Circuit Transducers which should be re-labeled "Aluminum Profit Producers" was expensive, although the Chinese factory that makes 'em likely has plenty of tools around) seems to be working out well…as long as "seekers" have Oregonpapa and others to "tell them how to spend their money" (!) on incredibly vague ethically questionable products, SR will continue on."
So, Wolfie ... tell us when it was that you ordered the HFT's and tried them in your system to gauge the results for yourself in your own listening room in order to compile your ridiculous assessment. Surely you wouldn't just make things up without donning your white lab coat and indulging in scientific A/B blind testing. Or would you?
Also interesting is that you continually rail against profits and prices. That speaks volumes in itself.
There is much to be learned from the many opinions expressed in this thread despite there being still virtually no concrete information about the products in question.
mapman 13,530 posts 07-28-2016 11:51am There is much to be learned from the many opinions expressed in this thread despite there being still virtually no concrete information about the products in question.
Well, none that you’ve been able to find, anyway. What do you mean by concrete information? Are you dismissing Quantum Tunneling treatment, crystal alignment treatment, special alloys for the wire and end caps and non-resonant ceramic body (Red Fuse) as being not concrete enough for you? I don’t even have to mention wire directionality. You’re right, there’s much to be learned, grasshopper. But first you have to find it. Knowledge doesn't come through osmosis.
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