Synergistic Red Fuse ...

almarg  7.27.16

" As I, and others have pointed out in a number of past threads, the ability of a system to resolve hardware difference does not necessarily go hand ii hand in hand with musical resolution or its sonic quality."

My response is that the ability of a electronic components to resolve information of all types is always dependent on the quality of their power supplies.y experience is that, in a properly functioning system, any change in the power supply is clearly audible. Some changes are pro-found, others may be more subtle, but they are always audible. The Synergistic Research is a "MAJOR UPGRADE" to the power supplies of all audio amplifiers. In fact " THIS UPGRADE NECESSARILY GO HAND IN HAND WITH MUSICAL
RESOLUTION AND SONIC QUALITY"

There is good reason for the popularity of this red fuse thread. It provides a path for audiophiles, with little or no technical skills, to make massive improvements to their system for relatively small outlays. It is my belief that installation of  black fuses, at a cost of $120 each, will provide improvements similar to many modifications costing in excess of $1000.

If you are serious about making a contribution to this thread, I suggest you replace the fuses in the power supply of one of your components, with Synergistic black fuses and POST THE RESULTS IN THIS THREAD.

There are individuals with 3000 or more posts who visit this thread from time to time but in most cases their posts have not been helpful. Some of their posts are inane, but more often merely irrelevant and lacking true substance.

Mapman

"Yes and there is probably now someone out there who believes that if they do not hear a difference with these things it means their system is not good enough"

That is exactly what I am saying. Not all so called "systems" are good enough. This of course is not a problem if someone is happy with the sound of their system.  It becomes a problem only when that someone is giving "advice" on a daily basis to many who are in dire need of sound advice and assistance. 

Much has been made of the SR fuses being able to make ANY piece of gear sound better, and SR demonstrated this by using one in a little Bose radio thing and claimed to improve it, so asking me to open my private world with pics of my listening room is just another weak stab at my credibility and privacy which I tend to want to protect (maybe not my credibility as that is subjective, and likely too late for much of this crowd)…I can say that my system obviously uses components I like, tubes and otherwise, and works for my tastes, just like anybody else’s. In my test of the SR black fuses I used my well sorted home system to test the things as I wouldn’t risk my pro gear in a live sound situation since the SR fuses do seem to blow much more easily than other fuses I’ve used. Regarding the little "transducer" gizmos, I’m unlikely to borrow any of those or spend the time (and the $7) it would take to make some for myself, and my life long professional and personal experience of understanding acoustics to some degree informs my opinion (bias?) that these things are just silly. I will say again that the SR business model is brilliant: Simply design items whose technology regarding development and use is never explained in actual technical terms, place them in a market that accepts unproven or rationally and scientifically tested accessories, and charge a boatload of money for this stuff to give it perceived value. Damn…where’s my Dremmel tool...

Mapman & Wolfie ...

I'll chime in here, but first, why all of the negative input? If the SR products don't work for you, for whatever reason (assuming that you've actually tried them), let it go already. For the rest of us, we have created what amounts to magic music machines. 

On the stock fuses:  All of my ARC equipment came with the stock fuses supplied by the factory. Over time, I changed them out for the HiFi Tuning fuses. That was an improvement and worth the cost of entry.

Then I replaced the HiFi Tuning fuse in the REF-75se ... and that's what originally started this thread from day one. Little by little, all of the HiFi Tuning fuses were changed out with the SR RED fuses. Every fuse change offered a substantial improvement. Again, worth the cost of entry. 

A couple of months after completing the system with the RED fuses, SR came out with the BLACK fuses. I tried one. Wow! Night and day over the RED fuses.

Now, with the exception of one fuse in the analog section of my CD player, the entire system sports SR Black fuses. For the difference in cost between the RED and BLACK's. Its well worth the change. I'd do it again in a heart beat. 

There is  no way I would want to go back to stock fuses, or any of the other fuses mentioned above. Its just no contest. 

With every SR product I've tried, from fuses, to HFT's and on to their power cords, its been not just a substantial improvement, but a system changing event. My system today, compared to a year ago is WAY beyond where I ever thought it would go. And believe me, it was no slouch a year ago either. 

And by the way, I'm using new top of the line bi-wired speaker cables and a couple of IC's from Von Gaylord Audio that are finally broken in. They are fantastic. The designer, Ray Leung, is a genius. Look for a new thread in the Cable Forum soon to come. 

OP

Mapman ...

If you notice, I addressed my last post to both you and Wolfie.  A variety of opinions are welcome here as they should be. What I reject are the personal attacks and I will defend against them. Remember Labtec's last post?  Nuff said there,. 

With that said, if you guys can come up with any "scientific" reasons why these tweaks don't work, have at it.

I'd be especially interested in hearing Wolfie's explanation of how he obtained the magic powers to hear what some of these tweaks do without ever experiencing them. Man, talk about super hearing. The guy's simply amazing. :-)

OP

Wolf has indicated multiple times to various degrees of detail that he did experience the Black Fuse.

The science behind fuses has also been covered pretty extensively in this thread by Almarg, Atmasphere and others who most would regard as highly expert electrical engineers.

So lots of things beyond mere opinion for a reader to soak in here in order to draw their own conclusions.

mapman   7.28.16

"There is much to be learned from the many opinions expressed in this thread despite there being still virtually no concrete information about the products in question."

Concrete information can be gained by experienced audiophiles who have over many years perfected the art of listening.

Please make reference to opinions you have expressed on this thread that are of substance or insightful. I have not paid particular attention to your posts.  

nyname, OK here is a brief summary of where I stand on the topic of SR fuses.
 
 I tried a donated Red Fuse and heard little if any difference.

I do not think all fuses are created equal.

I also tend to agree with Wolf’s assessment of SR and its marketing strategy in general.

I have been an "audiophile" for 40 years myself and have found little value in genral in very expensive tweaks marketed specifically to audiophiles compared to other comparable high quality products. I tend to look towards pro audio companies for my tweaks, not "high end audio" as represented on this site.

For amps, speakers, and other more technically complex devices, I may and have.

I have heard vendors in person reference threads on this site to promote their products and even refer to specific threads as theirs despite denials by participants of having any association.    So I am  more skeptical than I might be otherwise that some threads here are not used as free advertising.   I'm not saying this one is but its not a stretch to think some might form that opinion.

Mapman wrote,

"I have been an "audiophile" for 40 years myself and have found little value in genral in very expensive tweaks marketed specifically to audiophiles compared to other comparable high quality products."

There it is!  "I’ve been an audiophile for 40 years and...." Another dime for me.

Mapman also wrote,

"I tend to look towards pro audio companies for my tweaks, not "high end audio" as represented on this site."

Geez, Pro Audio has tweaks?! Like what, pray tell? Say it isn’t so. This explains a lot. ;-)

Mapman ...

Yes, Wolfie claims he's tried the Black fuses. Fine. But he also "knows" that the HFT room treatments don't work. He hasn't experienced them in his system though. That's the amazing hearing acumen I was referring to.  Geeze, he's even been to the Chinese factory where they're made and he's inspected the drill press used to make the darned things. I'm tellin' ya ... the guy's not only a genius but a world traveler to boot.  Amazing, no?

OP

Speaking of the Black Fuse, and some concrete information, this is for grasshopper:

"The Synergistic Research BLACK Quantum Fuse is by far Synergistic's highest performance fuse to date. Introducing Synergistic Research BLACK featuring a patent pending UEF coating and Graphene with 8 million times the conductive density of copper.

In addition to the new material Graphene used and the UEF coating the BLACK Fuses are treated with 2 Million volts of electricity in a process SR calls Quantum Tunneling that alters the conductor at a molecular level for optimum performance."

no goats, no glory

To whom it may concern

Because I am a contributor to this thread dealing with a product marketed by Synergistic Research, I have decided to list some of my equipment so that readers can see the extent of my involvement with Synergistic Research. I am doing this because I believe (I might be wrong) there a lot of the skepticism attached to many products marketed by Synergistic Research.

Power Cables:              Home made (4)
                                      Audience     (2)
                                     High Diamond    (1)

Interconnect Cables:       Audioquest "Chetah"  
                                        High Diamond "Platinum"

Loudspeaker:                 Synergistic Research  "Element Copper"

Grounding Block:           Synergistic Research

Fuses:                            Synergistic Research - "RED" 4
                                        Synergistic Research - "BLACK" 3    

It is not my policy to use cable looms from any single manufacturer. I will      audition cables from three credible manufacturers and Purchase the one that gives the best results at that particular location. For example, I am will probably purchase an interconnect later this year to replace the 10 year Audioquest Cheetah between my Sony SACD Player and my McCormack LD 2 preamp. My budget is to not exceed $2000.  I will audition Audioquest 'Wind", Synergistic Research "Atmosphere level 3" and also another Wywires "Platinum" interconnect. 
 

mapman

 In an earlier post of even date I asked you to post opinions you have posted in this thread that is substantive or insightful. Here is your response:
 
"I have been an "audiophile" for 40 years myself and have found little value in genral in very expensive tweaks marketed specifically to audiophiles compared to other comparable high quality products."

You are unable to refer to any of your earlier posts that meets this basic requirement.I am now obliged to ask "why do you post on this thread?

nyame ...

On the IC replacement later this year; I'd highly recommend that you also audition one from Von Gaylord Audio. A one meter pair is right there at your budget limit. Fantastic products. Very neutral, musical and tonally correct.  

http://vongaylordaudio.com/beta/cabling/

OP

Oregonpapa

Thanks. Now this is an example of an insightful post. Got it Mapman?

The greatest audiophile I know of, is Peter Moncrief and he reviewed the Chinchilla a long time ago in his quarterly magazine IAR. I learned so much from this great man. In fact he is why I purchased my McCormack preamp and my Odyssey khartao extreme power amp. He taught me about the value of passive components (caps, resisters, diodes, wire and so on. My son now builds his own tube traps from information made available by Peter Moncrief.  Sometime around 1985 I was among a group of  audiophiles who decided to build a preamp designed by Professor Marshall Leak of the Georgea Institute of technology. Although each of us was building the same circuit as published in Audio magazine we used different parts from a range of manufactures. Because I subscribed to IAR, then called an "under ground" mag I was aware of the best sounding film capacitors ("wonder caps" ), the best sounding resistors ("resista" resistors from Germany] and Signal transformers from the USA.  preamps.

He was a great fan of McCormack products and described the Mccormack preamp as a solid state preamp that even tube lovers could love. He also said similar good things about the Odyssey power amp of the day.  He
loved the Von Gaylord Chinchilla interconnect so much that he rated it above all other interconnects regardless of price. I will not purchase any cable without a prior audition, but if this option is available I will certainly give it an audition. Have you been able to audition the current Chinchilla? If so perhaps you could write a few words on what you heard.

wolf_garcia    7.26.16

" Damn…where’s my Dremmel tool... "

Wolf, I am just as frustrated with Synergistic Research as you and many audiophiles are. The language used to describe cables made with a few strands of wire is really difficult to deal with. At least twice in the last 5 years I decided not to ever deal with them again.

However, since I am a member of the cable company, which provides their products on loan for a small fee, I continue to deal with them if their products prove to be good value when auditioned.

I have been trying to figure out why the overblown language and here is my current thoughts. The products that synergistic research manufacture are basically simple and relatively easy to make, if you know how. I believe SR is reluctant to fully explain exactly what basic materials are used and how the cables and other products are made. Why? Because SR spend a lot of money, using basic trial and error, to develop their products. They probably believe if they let everyone know exactly how to make their products they would be unable to make the same amount of profit as they now do. This of course is just conjecture on my part.

I used to be employed in a company who refused to provide what they regarded as Company secrets to any of their customers. Requests by customers who requested information not in the instrument manuals were simply told That their manufacturing process is "Proprietary" and this was standard in the industry.

It is precisely because you have your dremmel tool ready and waiting to copy their products that I suspect SR behaves as it does.   I really can't blame them. The other aspect of the SR quandry is that they are always
looking for new materials and technologies to maintain market share. Many  of their new technologies are not understood by most audiophiles. How can a few dots placed on walls affect bass frequencies? There are people whose opinions I trust have tried these little dots and have been impressed by them. I will eventually audition them

I remember whenBowers and Wilkenson (The well known English loudspeaker manufacturer B&W ) marketed their DM 4 loudspeaker decades ago. It was built under license owned by the BBC. This bookshelf loudspeaker had not only a bass/midrange driver but also a "Super Tweeter" that handled the range from above 13 Khz. There was an outcry from members of the audio community who maintained that since human hearing goes up to only about 19Khz, there was no need for a super tweeter. But keen listeners welcomed the super tweeter and claimed that its benefits extended not only to the mid-range, and horror of horrors "THE BASS". Today this is a well known phenomenon and super tweeters are now routinely used with tremendous success.

Nyame wrote,

"
I remember whenBowers and Wilkenson (The well known English loudspeaker manufacturer B&W ) marketed their DM 4 loudspeaker decades ago. It was built under license owned by the BBC. This bookshelf loudspeaker had not only a bass/midrange driver but also a "Super Tweeter" that handled the range from above 13 Khz. There was an outcry from members of the audio community who maintained that since human hearing goes up to only about 19Khz, there was no need for a super tweeter. But keen listeners welcomed the super tweeter and claimed that its benefits extended not only to the mid-range, and horror of horrors "THE BASS". Today this is a well known phenomenon and super tweeters are now routinely used with tremendous success."

You might not remember the Ultra Tweeters but if you are alarmed by or put off by marketing jargon this might be the ticket. The Ultra Tweeters operate at frequencies above 1 GigaHertz only, I.e., they have no output in the audio spectrum. Yet, with the Ultra Tweeters in the room there was considerably better high frequency response with more air and overall dimensionality. They attached to the regular speaker posts and could be placed anywhere that was convenient since they didn't have to be time aligned.

nyame ...

I agree with you on IAR and Peter Moncrieff. I was a real fan and subscribed to his publication for years.

It was Peter who led me to the original Well Tempered Turntable. He loved it and continually raved about it. Too bad he didn't hear it with all of the mods and tweaks that can be done to it. I've had mine since it first came out. I bought the arm, new in the box, from an engineer who bought it directly from Bill Firebaugh after Bill demonstrated it at the engineer's audio society meeting. Then, I subsequently bought the bare table from a WT dealer. Total outlay was $1,900.  That was the best buy I've ever made in the audio hobby.  Thanks to Peter Moncrieff I will never need another table for the rest of my life. I've been told by really credible sources that to get better than what I have now,  I'd have to exceed $50,000 for a new table. 

I've searched the web over and over for Peter's Well Tempered review. Not attainable.

Here's Peter's review on the Von Gaylord IC's:  

http://vongaylordaudio.com/beta/wp-content/uploads/pdf/pmoncrieffreview.pdf
 
On the Von Gaylord IC's. I have one pair of balanced between my preamp and amp and an RCA pair between the turntable and phono stage. They are the Von Gaylord "Return of The Legend" IC's.  $1,995 for a meter pair. I was so impressed by them that I now have the Von Gaylord speaker cables as well.

When I refer to my system as a "Magic Music Machine," the Von Gaylord cables are a big reason. Ray Leung, the designer, is truly a genius ... and he knows the sound of music too. I heard his system this past year at the Newport Show .. .and was so taken by how accurate and musical the sound was that I had to try the cables. Not looking back at this point. No need.

 The Von Gaylord cables are very compatible and synergistic (no pun intended) with the Synergistic Research power cords too. Great combo. For those who say cables don't make a difference, I'd say ... get the wax out of yer ears. 

I'm tellin' ya nyame ... its Nirvana. :-)

OP

Hi Frank,

Your mentioning the Well Tempered Turn table (WTT) brings back memories. I own that (the original classic model, early 1990s) and the Linn Sondek LP 12, the WTT was easily the better turn table. The Linn was a very good table with proper set up but the WTT was truly special IMO.I owned it for many years and finally sold it to a friend who literally begged me to sell it to him.

In hindsight I should have probably kept it as it would’ve been a superb mate with my terrific  Yamamoto YDA DAC. Both cut from the same natural sounding cloth that just gets the tone,harmonics and fluidity /flow of music right. Frank here’s a recommendation for you. Lee Konitz, "Live At The Half Note" 1959. It’s very good.

Charles,

Hi Charles,

I am not familiar with the Well Tempered table but I am very familiar with the Linn Sondek  LP 12. I used it with a Grace 707 tonearm and a Fidelity Research low output moving coil cartridge. I have forgotten the name of the FR cartridge. The Grace tonearm was very popular with reviewers in HIFi News and other English publications. I eventually found out that the main reason they liked it (apart from the fact that is was awesome) was that it was available with several heads so that reviewers could conveniently
change heads for cartridge performance comparisons. I epoxied mine to prevent vibrations at the point of connection to the arm. My Linn Sondek was one of the early ones. The bearings were so precise it would cause problems in the summer when the temperature rose. To prevent this I used a very fine oil to keep things running smoothly. I really loved the LINN Sondek. and was a bit of an expert on setting it up. However at a later date I made a policy to throw away any- thing I owned that was not used in the previous 2 years. I made no exception with the Linn and put it in the garbage. In retrospect it was an unwise decision.

Geez, I am getting old. I thought this lovely thread ended two pages ago, then tonight I noticed two more pages. I could have done without the page before this one, but it's nice to see things back on track and positive.

Earlier this week, I subjected my system to the "Grog test." Grog (actually Greg--a friend since high school) is famous for passing out early. But this time, with my system sounding really good (SR Black outlets fully stabilized) and Grog listened until after two AM (and he was visiting the West Coast from Chicago, so we had the time zone difference working against this outcome as well). Grog is no audiophile, but he likes music, and he really enjoyed what he heard that night. Apologies to my long suffering neighbors.

One of the fun aspects of having one's music library accessible via iPad is that you can just turn it over to a guest and let them have at it. It's fun to have another person crawl through your collection. It's like getting a different perspective on the music you loved enough to have purchased and added to your library....

Charles & Nyame ...

Some of the most musically accurate systems I've heard had a Linn turntable in it. I used to seek out the Linn room at CES every year just to sit and listen to their wonderful systems.  Not only did the Linn TT play music, but the Linn folks had exemplary taste in music. You could always count on being entertained with great music in their demo rooms.

Enter the Well Tempered TT.  What could be better than a well designed tonearm bearing? How about no bearing at all? Yes, the WT tonearm looks like a Rube Goldberg contraption, but it works amazingly well. Here's an early (2006) review written by Paul Dudley:

 http://www.stereophile.com/artdudleylistening/1106listening/index.html#xGYT2q7bzxmimwgy.97

OP

Andy ...

Glad you're getting good results from the new SR outlet. I'd love to hear your review.  Its on my bucket list. One thing at a time. :-)

OP

Oregonpapa

Thanks for information on the legend VI. I am very interested and  impressed that Peter rated it 1A. This is his highest rating.

I will look into this when I am ready, probably in October.

Thanks again

Hi Andy,
I hear you in regard to the very recent exchanges on this thread concerning the Black fuses. Personally it  has now become stale  for me, what more can be said? Three people tried the fuses and derived no benefit. Multiple numbers of people have enthusiastically reported very positive results. No product pleases everyone. So there it is, the 8 months length of this thread speaks to the obvious overall concensus. The maturity and community/friendly atmosphere has been much appreciated by me (and many others I’m sure ). I’ll continue to post music recommendations and look forward to others posting the same. There are lots of music lovers participating on this thread. ☺☺
Charles,

Charles ...

This thread has turned into something far greater than SR fuses. As I said in a previous post, its become a meeting place for friends. I've found it to be very educational as well. I really appreciate the music suggestions too. You've turned me on to some good recordings and performances. I look forward to your continued input. 

Tonight was Gerry Mulligan night at my house. One LP has Mulligan on one side and Paul Desmond on the other. Red vinyl ... mono. Some of the Mulligan tunes are Line for Lyons, Bernie's Tune and Frenzi.  I had this record on 45 rpm in high school and wore out several copies. My brother, sister and I couldn't stop playing it. We had a box style Hifi with side speakers that detached from the side so that we could get some decent sound out of the thing. The problem was ... the tonearm must have weighed a couple of pounds. 

OP

Davidpritchard

Last night I was playing ""The Persuasions sing the Beatles" chesky 244. It is a hybrid SACD. The music was so pure and beautiful it was like listening to a group of angels singing. I thought of my mother who died at 90 about 3 years ago.

I don't know why but my mind wandered and I remembered your mother who enjoys music. If you do not have access to this music I would strongly recommend you make it available to her.. She will love it.
I GUARANTEE IT.

Hi Frank,
Oh yes, Gerry Mulligan,  I consider him and Pepper Adams genuine masters of the baritone saxophone. I have the CD version of the recording you cite.  I'll list a few that I believe you'll really enjoy. 

"Mulligan Meets Monk"
"Mulligan Meets Ben Webster "
"Night Lights "
"What Is There To Say ?"
Charles, 

^^^  I have all of those Mulligan recordings on vinyl.  Mulligan/Baker is some of my most favorite jazz.

 Do you have the Mulligan/Baker Carnegie Hall live recordings? They're on the CTI label.  Here's what you'd be looking for:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=gerry+mulligan&_osacat=11233&_from=R40&_trksid=p204...

The vinyl came in two volumes. I think the entire concert is available on CD. 

Hello Music Lovers
just a little out of the discussion but can be interesting to know I tried Townshend speaker bars yesterday on my Analysys Audio Epsilon panels. A big surprise at a reasonable cost. You should have a look at the videos and order some. They have a try and buy commercial strategy it seems.
Much more music , all very neat realistic without changing the balance of the sound in any way and oh that bass !!! So nice and easy. I think especially to jazz lovers : you should know that.
I stop here it was just an info I wanted to share with the gentlemen music lovers of this nice thread.
JY

nyame:

Thank you for the kind suggestion - I will order it today. Yesterday my Mother was very upset at herself for burning popcorn in the microwave. Being sight limited she had set the microwave to hours instead of minutes and then went outside the apartment while answering a neighbor's  knock on the door.. She returned to really toxic fumes- the microwave popcorn artificial butter becomes toxic when burned. 

So for two hours I clean the Kitchen floors, walls, etc., discarded the microwave and changed the air cleaners -  the Hepa and the activated carbon prefilters. While doing so I asked Mother to turn off the Hallmark TV channel and put on her music system. 

After 30 minutes of cleaning,  I realised I was hearing a faint female vocalist to some of the instrumentals. MY Mother has softly singing with the music! The powerful healing - relaxing - inspiring effect of music had taken place. 

This is a music system that has all Synergistic Research Black fuses, Synergistic Black wall outlets,and a Synergistic Research Grounding Block.

She hears and feels the improvement these products  give her system.

For those readers or readers with loved ones over 70, please consider a quality air cleaner that has a Hepa filter - for the bedroom and also for the main living room. Please consider once a week B-12 shots. The improvement in the "I think easier with less strain" can be quite remarkable.

Enjoy your music and enjoy life this weekend.

David Pritchard

I had a terrible time with my raised floors. Muddy bass.


If one were to look at my system pictures, the solution is evident. I ordered two, two-inch thick unfinished maple platforms from Mapleshade. The platforms are spiked to the floor and the speakers are spiked to the platforms. The difference was night and day. Also, putting heavy granite platforms on top of the speakers helped too. Its like increasing the mass of the speakers.

David ...

I love the stories about your Mom. You are a loving son. After meeting you in person at the Newport Show, I can say that it is reflected in your personality. You have a sweet spirit about you David. Very evident here in your posts as well.

As an older person (how did that happen?), the best advise I can give to younger folks who still have living parents is ... treat them with respect and kindness. Keep in constant touch.  Let them know that you love them and appreciate all of the sacrifices they have made for you in your younger days. You will appreciate it later.

Remember, discipline weighs ounces ... and regret weighs tons. :-) 

OP

mapman
13,538 posts
07-29-2016 9:29am
Isolating speakers from lively floors is a must usually for best sound. I’ve found it to be one of the most basic and effective room tweaks one can do.

Yes, Isolating the rest of the system from the speakers, I.e., acoustic feedback, is a great idea. Everything should be isolated because speakers aren’t the only issue. Placing cones under heavy furniture on suspended floors can be quite rewarding as well.

OP,

OP,

I am still trying to truly understand the magnitude of improvement people are hearing with Red and Black fuses.

On a scale of 1-100, what would you rate the magnitude of change heard with the SR fuse versus the speaker/floor isolation tweak?

For me, the isolation improvement was much greater than anything I heard with the Red fuse.    The Subdudes and Isoacoustics stands each made huge differences in sound that surely anyone could hear.  But only on my second level.  Not much difference if used at foundation level on solid concrete floor (with thin dense carpet and padding).

Honestly, if the Red fuse made a difference is was hard for me to identify at all with any certainty.   So much less effective than isolation when needed.

The difference in results of isolation of my same speakers on two totally different levels of my home acoustically show how even potentially real and effective tweaks  will vary in results depending.

Bottom line is there has to be a real problem to solve first and then an effective solution to address it.

So while I do not think all fuses are created equal, I also believe that the problem fuses address has been solved effectively by many commercial fuse products over the years and for very low cost.

So are the expensive fuses a solution looking for a problem or not?   Obviously opinions will vary on this.

Mapman wrote,

"So while I do not think all fuses are created equal, I also believe that the problem fuses address has been solved effectively by many commercial fuse products over the years and for very low cost."

Nice try, but the commercial fuse companies have not even caught up to wire directionality thing. Nor will they. There is not a single problem fuses address, either. Haven't you been paying attention, grasshopper? What else, you ask? Aftermarket fuses, for the most part, while they all appear to have their own innovations and or implementations, and rightfully so, since no one has a monopoly on fuse technology, employ better alloys or purer pure metals for the wire itself and for the end caps. They employ an anti resonant body or some other anti resonant function (e.g., beeswax). They employ EMI/RFI absorption techniques, e.g. Graphene and whatever Audio Magic uses in their nano fuses like Beeswax, etc. AND the manufacturers understand wire directionality and usually provide ARROWS to assit the end user in determining correct fuse orientation. What’s not to like, grasshopper?

cheerios

Geoff repeating your same arguments over and over does not make them any more or less true.

Obviously you believe the problem has not been solved effectively. That’s fine. But I notice you tend to fear problems are more severe than most. The old making mountains out of molehills thing. Its not healthy. Take a chill pill grasshopper. Things really ain’t so bad. Maybe consider dumping your fuse less Sony Walkman and trying "a real system". With fuses even. Then you can actually you know do something to learn about what fuses sound like rather than just theorize.

You talk ab out aftermarket fuses. There are "aftermarket" fuses of good quality that cost just a few bucks. Are these good enough for some the uber systems in these parts? Don’t know. But little risk for anyone to try and then maybe even compare to those in the elite fuse club later. Then one would know if one cares. But clearly the more one already has invested in a hifi the less likely they will split hairs over a couple hundred bucks.

My new product, the Mapman "funky fuse" is still under development. The casing will be formed from a solid block of proprietary graphene infused alloy I’m building in the mapcave with very low overhead to maximize the profits I am smelling. It will be the best fuse ever and few will be able to afford it! Believe me! :^)

Mapman wrote,

"Obviously you believe the problem has not been solved effectively. That’s fine."

nope, one, never said it. What's obvious is there's been an evolution of fuses over the years. You know, since fancy expensive audiophile fuses first came out twenty years ago. 

Mapman also wrote,

"But I notice you tend to fear problems are more severe than most."

Maybe I'm more aware of problems than the average bear. I'll sign up to that. Not fear. 

Mapman also opined,

"Maybe consider dumping your fuse less Sony Walkman and trying "a real system". With fuses even."

No fuse. No power cord. No ground, no house AC. No interconnects. No speaker cables. No problem. 

Finally, Mapman said, I'm pretty sure in frustration,

"Then you can actually you know do something to learn about what fuses sound like rather than just theorize."

Huh? I'm the one who can hear, remember?

" No fuse. No power cord. No ground, no house AC. No interconnects. No speaker cables. No problem. "

No wonder the purests in these parts all love you.

Mapman ...

Its a mystery to me as to why the fuses were so significant of an improvement in my system while no improvement was detected in your's and a few others. The only thing I can come up with is that I've spent an inordinate amount of time, effort, and money over many years to reduce micro vibrations throughout the system and in the listening room.

Everything I could think of in the area of vibration control has, or had been addressed. Even after all of these years and effort, I'm still finding areas of improvement as new products are developed. The latest being the SR High Frequency Transducers (HFT's). These things are NOT subtle at all. Amazing, really.

I've paid attention to large and minor details as far as micro vibrations are concerned from the turntable all the way back to the back wall of the room.

My equipment stand is made of three layers of plywood with constrained dampening material between each layer. The stand is spiked to the floor. The equipment rests on granite platforms. each layer is machined to close tolerances with more dampening material sandwiched between the layers. The ARC equipment is built with dampening material inside the chassis and the tubes are dampened with tube rings. Even the placement of the tube rings has been done to ear. We have Warren Gehl at ARC to thank for that. He's an engineer with a specialty in vibration control. I've learned tons about this stuff from Warren over the years. Over time, Warren has developed a turntable mat, a CD mat and even a tonearm wrap that works quite well. He's responsible for the design of the granite platforms that my electronics rest on and that are on top of my speakers. 

So, here's the bottom line. I think that because such attention has been applied to the fine details, any improvement (or detriment) can be heard immediately ... and they can be profound. 

You asked me to compare the speaker platforms to the fuses. The Mapleshade platforms were a major step from top to bottom. As the bass was cleaned up, it affected the mid-range and the highs significantly as well. Everything was more focused in a big way. I finally had a bass that was clearly defined. 

With the fuses (and keep in mind here, there is a huge difference between the SR Red fuses like you tried and the Black fuses), right off the bat, from the first RED fuse, it was like going from a standard tube TV set with white noise that you didn't know was there, and then converting over to a new LCD TV.  The clarity, depth and width of the sound field were improved dramatically. The most striking improvement from the fuses, especially the Black fuses, was the improved organic nature of the sound of instruments. Much more realistic and emotionally involving. Its what compelled me to start this entire thread in the first place. 

So, I would encourage anyone reading this who is seriously into great sound and music to seek out ways to get everything in the system under control from a vibration standpoint. Consider the room itself to be part of the system and control that too. It can be something really inexpensive like tube dampening rings, cable elevators for your speaker cables, or expensive as well, like Shakti Hallographs in all four corners of the room. Everything makes a difference for better or for worse. Find the better and chuck the worse. :-)

 http://shakti-innovations.com/hallograph.htm

So, what do you think, mapman?  I have no way of knowing what you've done in the way of fine details as described above. I'd be really interested in your assessment. 

Thanks ...

OP

OP,

For comparison, my main gear is in my office on foundation level, concrete floor with thin dense carpet and padding. A most solid foundation to start with. Bel Canto ref1000m amps are on an antique wood stand with soft padded top. SB touch on top. ARC Pre-amp, mhdt DAC and Linn turntable sit on a solid maple antique coffee table less than 2’ tall. It is quite heavy and rock solid. All gear is along left side wall. Isolation is quite good by design, by far the best I have ever had at home. How do I know? Its a small room with speakers facing gear and there is no noticeable feedback or noise with turntable playing even at top volume, which is never easy to accomplish. A solid foundation like the foundation level of a structure offers is the ideal location to start and makes all else easier.

Detail, imaging, soundstage, dynamics are all top notch I would say, in line with the best systems I hear out there after a lot of attention in recent years.

My best speakers, teh large OHM F5s, are in an adjacent room connected via in-wall wires to gear in room next door so no interaction between those and the gear driving them.

Also when I had our house built, I had the walls surrounding my office where the gear resides fully insulated and a solid wood door put in. I can listen in there quite loud at night and bother no one.

So I think I am in pretty good shape isolation wise. I also have done things to minimize RF and EM interactions as well, mostly all very simple low cost tweaks like setting my phono step up transformer in a mu metal foil container and paying careful attention to positioning of wires relative to nearby power transformers.

To answer inquiring minds, I use Littlefuses. The send me 13 cents every time I mention that.

I have stacked 2 maple butcher blocks under my main Silverline Prelude speakers (just to raise 'em 5 inches) with vibrapods under the speakers where the spikes would have been…on a wood floor this effectively keeps the speaker box from vibing into the floor. A toe can verify this. It works swimmingly. Outboard regulated power supplies here and there to keep DC out of things, a PS Audio Humbuster III, Power Port AC plugs, heavy duty Sorbathane feet under the tube amp, large alloy cones of some type I've had for decades under the preamp (mostly for ventilation really). See? I can tweak…but the zillions of little surfaces all over my largish room made up of art works, books, piles of yet to be laundered cash, furniture, a piano, guitar cases, shrunken heads of my foes, etc., all reflect sound waves someplace, and if my doubting the effectiveness of a half dozen tiny alloy cups stuck here and there on all this seems luddite, so be it. My dearly departed friend and neighbor Lars Fridell let Sun Mook dudes put their ridiculous little ebony discs in his listening room…another expensive bit of audio tricksterism that yielded no benefit. Note also that if a manufacturer makes claims of million volt treatment or esoteric graphite somehow giving a FUSE (not in the signal chain, a tiny wire designed to melt, etc.) magic powers when applied to the electrons flowing through it, they should at least TRY to explain how they got to that conclusion. Just sayin'...

Interesting, Wolfie, that you should mention the late Lars Fredell ("The World's Greatest Audiophile"), as just the other day I happened to be reading his brilliantly written and informative review of a Tenor OTL amplifier.  Very sad that he passed away at only 58.

Unfortunately I never had the pleasure of meeting him, or of sharing a listening session with him or his close colleague "Sam Tellig" (formerly of Stereophile), even though I live in the same general neck of the woods as they did at the time.  In those days my work was sufficiently intrusive on my time that just being able to listen at home was a special occasion.  But eventually I got my priorities in order :-)

Best regards,
-- Al
 

mapman ...

Is there a way that you can move your equipment so that its all behind your speakers? You say your gear is facing the speakers. I don't think that's the best situation.  If the gear is facing the speakers, and the speakers are firing into the equipment (even from across the room), think of how this could be causing the equipment chassis, the amp stand and coffee table to vibrate (think micro level). I know you said there is "no noticeable feedback,"  but like I said in my last post ... think of an old tube TV set with white noise on the screen that you didn't know existed until you replaced it with the new LCD TV set. 

Take a look at my system page. Notice that there is a large glass coffee table right in front of the sweet spot listening chair. That table is about ten feet from my speakers.

 A few weeks ago, my friend Robert (Mr. Record) tried talking me into removing the heavy glass top and moving it out of the room. We finally did it. The thing is so heavy it took both of us to move it ... and it will never come back.

 Without the large glass top, I'm getting better bass than ever. Very natural, very defined and very deep. Its small things like this that make the differences. Funny how you don't know there's a problem until you remove it. 

I love free tweaks. On your ARC preamp: try moving the two tube rings as far up the tubes as possible without the top ring falling off. Be sure that they are still solidly on the tubes, but as far up as possible. Be sure that both rings are solidly touching each other all the way around. You should hear more overall clarity after you've done this little tweak.  

Have you tried removing some of the Mu Metal?  I've experimented with Mu Metal in the past, and I know it reduces noise, but it can also be over done and have the effect of dulling the sound. 

So, there's a couple of suggestions. May work and may not. If not, nothing lost ... not even return postage. :-)

OP

Wolfman wrote,

"My dearly departed friend and neighbor Lars Fridell let Sun Mook dudes put their ridiculous little ebony discs in his listening room…another expensive bit of audio tricksterism that yielded no benefit."

if you cannot hear Shun Mook discs, even one, either you’re all thumbs or just plain deaf. Shun Mook Mpingo discs are without a doubt one of the top ten tweaks of all time. Have you given any consideration to having your ears candled?