Synergistic Red Fuse ...

To all of the naysayers: In your opinion, am I supposed to disbelieve my  lying ears?????

With all due respect, especially for Wolf, here' s a recommended tweak that you may want to try: 

http://www.pharmapacks.com/products.php?product=Murine-Ear-Wax-Removal-System-1-Each

nyame
Geoffkait,

I need more information before boarding the train:

I do not know the manufacturing process used in fuse manufacture.
I do not understand the properties of graphene as it relates to SR fuses.
I do not know the full effects of Quantum tunneling.
I have no information on the fuse holders.
I do not know if the labels on the fuses are oriented in the same direction.

All of of those things are irrelevant. Start with the assumption all fuses are directional. When you have many fuses in your system the only way to determine directionality is check each fuse, one at a time, for sound in both directions and keep the fuse in the direction that sounds best. Then move to the next fuse and repeat. Check all fuses one at a time. Th sound should get progressively better. When you have finished checking all fuses for directionality you can repeat the whole process in case you made a mistake or weren’t sure about one or more fuse. The second time around you should experience an easier time deciding which direction is best for each fuse since the system will be more resolving.

Geeoffkait                        

I need more information before boarding the train:

 I do not know the manufacturing process used in fuse manufacture.
I do not understand the properties of graphene as it relates to SR fuses.
I do not know the full effects of Quantum tunneling.
I have no information on the fuse holders.
I do not know if the labels on the fuses are oriented in the same direction.
 

Nyame, not sure why you are not on board the fuse directionality train since almost everyone else reports SR fuses are in fact directional. Even SR states their fuses are directional. I find it odd especially in light of your having SO MANY SR fuses that you have not followed suit. Hop aboard the fuse directionality train. All aboard! Toot toot!

geoffkait                                       1/23/17

  " Uh, come again. What are you attributing the restoration of the sound to if not the inherent directionality of the fuse itself? "

I was merely responding to Almarg who stated " I have contended that it is impossible for a fuse to have inherent directional characteristics. "

I wanted to state the only experience I had on this topic. I had originally replaced (7) standard fuses [ (4) in my power amp, (2) in my CD player and (1) in my preamp ] with Synergistic red fuses. I later replaced the single fuse in the preamp with a Synergistic black. There was a significant improvement in sound quality so I decided to upgrade the Cd player with blacks. However when I replaced the fuses in my CD player ( with SR black fuses ) the system sounded like it was out of phase. I took out both fuses and turned them around 180 degrees. This solved the problem and the system made another leap forward.

I did not form an opinion as to why the change in orientation was so dramatic. To this day I have not come to any firm conclusions. Was it a mechanical connection problem ? I really do not know. I refuse to say that the fuses are directional. I also refuse to say they are not directional. I don't really care either way.

This is what I meant when I said in my post " I DID NOT CONCLUDE THAT THE FUSE ITSELF IS INHERENTLY DIRECTIONAL"


 

whitestix
I put a SR Red fuse into my preamp yesterday and it blew immediately.  I put the Radio Shack fuse back in the preamp and the preamp powers up fine.  That was a $50 "butt dart".  

They can't even get the amperage rating right. Others have blown also. Like I said before if they were the + or - rail fuses say goodby to your amp and or speakers.
Get your money back asap, do not accept a higher rated fuse

nyame
It is THE POWER SUPPLY that is reponsible for the improvements. The fuse allow the power supply to perform more effectively and this, not the fuse, is responsible for the improved performance.

You can't have it both ways. Where and who stated this? and post a link to it please. 

nyame
I replaced 10 fuses in my system and after replacing the final fuse noted a fall-off in performance. I reversed the physical direction of the fuse and and optimum performance was restored. I DID NOT CONCLUDE THAT THE FUSE ITSELF IS INHERENTLY DIRECTIONAL.

The what are you trying to say, again you can't have it both ways.

Cheers George

wolf_garcia
I reported on a thorough test I did of SR fuses a while back, in which I concluded that they did nothing to enhance the sound of my well sorted system, and in fact a couple of them blew as they don’t seem to be rated properly. My conclusion was simply that they are a fraudulent and dangerous product to be utterly avoided. The fact that no reasonable explanation from the manufacturers of these things as to why they have any effect on the tonality of audio gear has never been offered is not unexpected, but has been surprisingly ignored by people claiming benefits from the use of these things.

speaking for myself, I am not ignoring your results with the SR fuses. But I am dismissing them as an OUTLIER when compared to the general population that has reported positive test results. Outliers can be thrown out.

I reported on a thorough test I did of SR fuses a while back, in which I concluded that they did nothing to enhance the sound of my well sorted system, and in fact a couple of them blew as they don't seem to be rated properly. My conclusion was simply that they are a fraudulent and dangerous product to be utterly avoided. The fact that no reasonable explanation from the manufacturers of these things as to why they have any effect on the tonality of audio gear has never been offered is not unexpected, but has been surprisingly ignored by people claiming benefits from the use of these things.  

Nyame
"As Bill Clinton has pointed out " It depends on what "directional is." I replaced 10 fuses in my system and after replacing the final fuse noted a fall-off in performance. I reversed the physical direction of the fuse and and optimum performance was restored. I DID NOT CONCLUDE THAT THE FUSE ITSELF IS INHERENTLY DIRECTIONAL. It is my belief that when a genuine audiophile say a fuse is "directional" this is what they are referring to. They are not saying that the fuse is inherently directional."

Uh, come again. What are you attributing the restoration of the sound to if not the inherent directionality of the fuse itself?

Almarg    1/20/17

It now appears that Wolf_Garcia, Mapman and Almarg have emerged as the leading spokesmen for the flat earth society. I have taken it upon myself to respond to to the 5 points raised by almarg.

Points 1 & 2. " I don't doubt that fuses can make a difference in many applications even though measured data that has been presented to support the existence of those differences is not supportive of their existence"

It is very difficult to respond rationally to to this type of convoluted nonsense. The only way to determine whether a fuse make a difference is to listen to it. No "measured data" can make this determination. This is why final evaluation of high quality audio products has to pass a listening test before approved for sale. The truth is that all fuses make a difference. The only question is whether the resolution of the playback system is is good enough to allow the difference to be heard. Not all playback systems have the benefits of tuned acoustics, absence from vibrations, optimized loudspeaker placement, good grounding etc

Point 3. " I have expressed bafflement at how any particular fuse, such as the synergistic black, can provide the benefits it has reported to provide with the high degree of consistency that has been reported, among components that are completely different in design, that perform completely different functions, that are used in very different systems, that are powered by AC having very different voltage and noise characteristics, and in DC as well as AC applications"

Almarg's bafflement is based on a false premise. It is not the use that is doing all the things he is baffled by. It is THE POWER SUPPLY that is reponsible for the improvements. The fuse allow the power supply to perform more effectively and this, not the fuse, is responsible for the improved performance.

Point 4. " I have contended that it is impossible for a fuse to have inherent directional characteristics. And I have said that even if a fuse did have inherent directional characteristics, the vastly longer associated wiring would, as well and the directional effects of that wiring would swamp those of the fuse."

As Bill Clinton has pointed out " It depends on what "directional is." I replaced 10 fuses in my system and after replacing the final fuse noted a fall-off in performance. I reversed the physical direction of the fuse and and optimum performance was restored. I DID NOT CONCLUDE THAT THE FUSE ITSELF IS INHERENTLY DIRECTIONAL. It is my belief that when a genuine audiophile say a fuse is "directional" this is what they are referring to. They are not saying that the fuse is inherently  directional.

Point 5: " I have pointed out in this and other threads  that in audio it is often easy to attribute a perceived sonic effect to the wrong variable. And that the methodology with which an evaluation is performed needs to be especially thorough in the case of tweaks that are unexplainable and/or seemingly implausible, to rule out the possibility that  unrecognized variables are responsible.

This of course is a " Hail Mary " pass by a desperate Quarter Back in the closing stages of a losing battle. Does any one on this forum really believe that Oregonpapa (The OP of this thread ) is delusional. Can all the many positive reviews of the Synergistic Research fuses on this thread, and in other forums, explained away by saying they are being misled by "perceived effects of the wrong variable?

I have said it before and I will say it again. Please review the synergistic black fuse and post your review on this thread. And if you do a review you should equip your system with a full complement of fuses. Don't do what Mapman did. He put in a single fuse. This is like like replacing one tyre on a car and reporting that you observed no change. One tyre is only part of the system of tyres.

Bingo! We have a match! Mopman and Georgelobrow. Trolls extraordinaire, the Frick & Frack of Mid Fi. But seriously folks, isn't all this anger, name calling and angst simply a symptom of just how wide the gap is between the Mid Fi and High End communities?

I put a SR Red fuse into my preamp yesterday and it blew immediately.  I put the Radio Shack fuse back in the preamp and the preamp powers up fine.  That was a $50 "butt dart".  

It's all voodoo b/s. Send the fuse back and demand a $50 refund, and do not accept another bs higher rated fuse.
This SR Company has a lot to answer for with this s**t they're peddling, and the clowns that push (shill) it here relentlessly to  he gullible.

Cheers George

You'll maybe understand these things someday perhaps. .  Don't give up.  

Let me get this straight. Mapman, the Principal Troll and naysayer supreme on fuse threads, who professes he cannot hear the difference between a stock fuse and a high end fuse and who also cannot hear the difference in directionality of fuses, is being complemented on his theory why aftermarket fuses make a difference in SQ and is suddenly admired as some sort of fuse savant? Shirley, you jest. 😛

mapman, that was my takeaway too, e.g., fuse directly in the signal path, etc., and sort of proves my "seat of the pants" theory. The more (directly) the fuse is placed in the signal path, the more the improvement in the SQ. Its a theory (for me) because I only have one data point first hand to prove it but might explain why we have a dividend camp.

I put a SR Red fuse into my preamp yesterday and it blew immediately.  I put the Radio Shack fuse back in the preamp and the preamp powers up fine.  That was a $50 "butt dart".  

The notion of directionality of fuses, as so much of his thread revolves around, is as silly as the notion that pricey fuses make an audible difference.  However, I thought the same thing about PC's and recently got both a Shunyata Venom 3 PC and Silnote Poseidon PC and the improvement in sound in my system is significant.   Caveat emptor, my friends.  

kalili in the case of magnepans fuses are directly in the signal path of the speakers I believe a case where they are more likely to make a difference. I don’t think anyone has challenged the greater likelihood of their potential effect on sound in that particular case.

As Al cited fuses are used in different places in different ways in different devices so mileage likely to vary overall.

It could also be due to a better/fresh connection with the new fuse in compared to old. The way to know would be to replace each a few times and see if the better sound occurs consistently with one fuse or another.

Hat's off to Al whose analysis almost convinced even me. Al would have undoubtedly made an excellent defense attorney in the O.J case.

I've seen that done on various pieces over the year.    It makes for a better electrical connection which is always a good thing as has been cited  though makes replacing harder.   You would have to check the specific devices warranty to see what any impacts of changing yourself  might or might not be. 

I asked this question a little while back and I don’t know if anyone responded. Hard to keep track with so much traffic. Anyway, let me ask again: I got the new fuses but when I went in to replace the fuses, I see the stock ones are in the standard fuse holders but also have (thin) wires soldered at both ends of each fuse. Anyone else seen this set up in their gear? A bit reluctant to break the solder joints to replace the fuses since the amp is still under warranty.

Yep, that’s pretty much it. Thanks again Al. You are the voice of reason and always a gentleman. We could all use more of that!

There is much more to be learned about the topic.

Hi Al,

A fine and balanced summary as always.

I will be surprised if anything more than what you stated is ever discerned about this topic.

Best to you Al,
Dave

Jetter 1-20-2017
Knowledge Expert definition - For my way of looking at things they are Al and Ralph - Although I probably should not inject my interpretation of their discussions, which is what I have done. So Al and Ralph, sorry if I have misinterpreted your thoughts.

No problem, Jetter.  To be sure my thoughts about fuses are clear, here is a summary of the major points I have made in this and other fuse-related threads:

1)I don't doubt that fuses can make a difference in many applications, even though ...

2)... Measured data that has been presented in support of the existence of those differences is not supportive of their existence, for reasons I have explained.

3)I have expressed bafflement at how any particular fuse, such as the SR Black, can provide the benefits it has been reported to provide with the high degree of consistency that has been reported, among components that are completely different in design, that perform completely different functions, that are used in very different systems, that are powered by AC having very different voltage and noise characteristics, and in DC as well as AC applications.

4)I have contended that it is impossible for a fuse to have inherent directional characteristics.  See my post dated 12-31-2016.  And I have said that even if a fuse did have inherent directional characteristics, the vastly longer associated wiring would as well, and the directional effects of that wiring would swamp those of the fuse.

5)I have pointed out in this and other threads that in audio it is often extremely easy to attribute a perceived sonic effect to the wrong variable.  And that the methodology with which an evaluation is performed needs to be especially thorough in the case of tweaks that are technically unexplainable and/or seemingly implausible, to rule out the possibility that unrecognized extraneous variables are responsible.

Also, regarding the question of why "non-believers" keep coming back to this thread, as would be the case in most threads discussion of that question is, IMO, neither constructive nor germane to the topic of the thread.

Regards,
-- Al
 

jetter
Knowledge Expert definition - For my way of looking at things they are Al and Ralph - Although I probably should not inject my interpretation of their discussions, which is what I have done. So Al and Ralph, sorry if I have misinterpreted your thoughts.

I hate to judge before all the facts are in but (and I’m only going by what others have said on this dodgy subject, not to mention own extensive experience and the testimony of others) can I be so bold as to suggest it’s possible you’re following the wrong sheep?

+1 on Andy of Vintage Tube Services. He's a wealth of tube and vintage gear knowledge and a great guy to deal with. My only tube source.

While I just started using tubes last year I've done a decent amount of tube rolling and enjoy the different sound qualiies different tubes bring to the table, especially NOS tubes. A matched quad of 60's NOS RCA 6L6GC's black plates have transformed my amp.....purely magical. 

Good point geoffkait. I wonder what people will think if I get small tube dampers to to fit over my fuses? It actually might not be a bad idea!

Yes, interesting also how similar in many respects tubes are to fuses, inasmuch as they carry the audio signal, are susceptible to vibration and magnetic fields and RFI/EMI, function better with better conductor materials I.e., internal structures and tube pins, better tube holders (sockets).  In fact about the only thing tubes are missing is the inexplicable angst that fuses create in the minds of audiophiles.

Moving on to another fascinating area of controversy; tube rolling. My Audio Note Kit 1 DAC uses a single 12AU7 type tube in the analog output stage. I had been using a NOS (80’s vintage, I think) Tesla ECC802S, which I thought was a pretty good tube. Supposedly, they were made with the original Telefunken tooling. I swapped it out for a low noise, low microphonics tested, 50’s-60’s vintage, Telefunken I acquired from Andy Bouwman at Vintage Tube Services years ago. I was not really prepared for how much better it was. I think the black fuses, along with other recent changes and tweaks to my system, have increased the resolution such that the differences are easily discernible.

If you are interested in exploring the difference really good NOS tubes can make, I highly recommend Andy:

http://vintagetubeservices.com

jetter
tommy, no mater what side of the fence you are on, I think the reason non fusers keep coming back to this thread is the curiosity of reading about people hearing differences that knowledge experts have explained are not possible.

Knowledge Expert definition - someone with a big forehead who used to be a drip under pressure.

😃

tommy, no mater what side of the fence you are on, I think the reason non fusers keep coming back to this thread is the curiosity of reading about people hearing differences that knowledge experts have explained are not possible. 

Charles, I don’t know why many builders don’t use film caps in the power supply? Why they don’t use better internal wiring? Why they use such long signal paths? Why they don’t use breakers? Why many builders think one part sounds the same as another as long as both are in spec and think boutique capacitors/resistors and the like are snake oil? Why do we still use conventional binding posts instead of clamps that clamp the output wires to the speaker cable? Many more audio questions I wonder about in terms of tube gear design.

If my memory serves me right and we had a LONG debate, Atmasphere states 95% of his amp and preamp designs are based on specs. Any builder voices their design is incompetent. So I guess cap, wire ... with the same spec will work so probably reason inferior parts are used?

@oregonpapa 

To everyone posting here:

Do any of you like coffee? I do. I love really great coffee. Its the only coffee I'll drink.

I love coffee. I buy most of the coffee from Trader Joe's and settled on French Roast and Italian. I use a burr grinder and French press ... I guess next step is roasting my own coffee ...  I'll let you know how it goes :-):-)  

BTW, the circuit breakers Paul Weitzel uses are all mil-spec.  I still have several in my basement.   Paul said never seen one failed.  

Bully tactics won't work. 

mapman,

I don't consider you a troll, and you're welcome here as far as I'm concerned. I do, however, wonder what keeps you coming back to this thread?

I've often wondered that myself tommylion.
mapman has 14,286 posts, 238 posts on this thread alone.

Now I know that folks who HATE Howard Stern listen to his show and blow a gasket everyday, just as some who HATE The View do the same.
I'm often baffled why someone is attracted to view, listen, even seek out something that irritates them so much.

Why DO people seek out things that they know will bother them? Masochism?
That is a mystery to me. Life is too short.

Here's an update.  I took my red fuse out and using original ARC fuse.  I don't hear a difference.

Only fuse fans invited?

Tell audiogon to stop showing me updates to threads I've been in and maybe I'll forget.

It's a dangerous mix, alcohol and fuses.

mapman,

I don't consider you a troll, and you're welcome here as far as I'm concerned. I do, however, wonder what keeps you coming back to this thread?

dl I have no idea what your talking about. Make bad decisions on bad info then if you prefer. Whatever makes you happy is a good decision for you.  Keep me out of it please.

Only your contradiction of intent under scrutiny bothers me, but I will get over it. No worries, Gov.

Dave

oregonpapa     1-19-17

+1

Great post.

dl if that statement bothers you I think its your problem not others.

I'm not questioning any ones decisions.  They need not be same as mine.

Objection, your honor! Unresponsive!

Objection sustained.

I can’t help how you interpret it. It’s a pretty clear statement.   Is there something wrong with it?

58, I build with the same parts and learned first hand how great Jupiter caps, Path Audio resistors etc... are. I would also add how great Clarity TC film caps are in a power supply. These TC caps are far better than oilers or Solen fast caps. More tube amp builders should use them. Yes indeed wire makes a difference in amplifiers.

It also seems fuses make a difference and I think that only makes sense because all parts matter. The fuse is a part. Diodes matter. Tube sockets matter. Tranny wire matters. The fuse holder would also matter. I suppose if I used fuses I would dispense of the fuse holder and silver solder the fuse in place as this would surely sound even better. 

That's nice and everything but it should be pointed out that Graphene is not the conductor in the Black fuse.

To Granny ring. I have spent 20 years realizing and upgrading stock parts gor premium ones . Trust me I have argued with amplifier mfg telling me a stock power cord will fo nothing it is just the metal burging in , or a capacitor is s capacitor. I just spent the last two weeks putting 200 hours on these new Synergistic Black fuses  with several guys over 2 times the cheap steel fuses were put back in then thd Black fuses in proper direction normally pointing back to ftont  these fuses thd engineers said 300 hours because of thd treatment and Graphene is multitudes more dense then Copper . I could not be happier. 
And before that changed the coupling caps throughout my system 
VH OIMP caps ,snd Jupiter Copper foil caps ,  and when doing Loudspeakers get your capacitors matched to under 1% for all .the Path audio resistors are the 
Most accurate by far mine were matched with 1/2 of 1%. You most certainly can here the timing accuracy as well as phase. Any company charging $10k plus and putting Solen in is s Disgrace.  My Salk Bud Fried  Speakers come with Solen but 
Jim let's you havd whatever you want.  The Duelund Cast the best, but way over priced . The Jupiter Copper foil are better then the standard Duelund in my experiences. Jantzen Copper inductors  ard excellent and decent Salk use Jantzen and mills resistors which are very respectable. Even Teflon solo crystal Copper wire makes a difference as well as connectors,  Bybee makes a great kit for improving the sonics also. My tech builds custom dual mono Pass lab 1at watt amps, and DHT preamplifiers.  This way you build top quality and you the buyer 
Has full control of the parts quality going into your unit  ascwrl, as the case  and powDer coated finish.  If any of your guys are thinking  about a amp or preamp or anything else Email me I would be happy to help.😎🎷🎸🎻