I installed a SR RED Quantum fuse in my ARC REF-3 preamp a few days ago, replacing an older high end fuse. Uhh ... for a hundred bucks, this little baby is well worth the cost. There was an immediate improvement upon installation, but now that its broken in (yes, no kidding), its quite remarkable. A tightening of the focus, a more solid image, and most important of all for my tastes, a deeper appreciation for the organic sound of the instruments. Damn! ... cellos sound great! Much improved attack on pianos. More humanistic on vocals. Bowed bass goes down forever. Next move? .... I'm doing the entire system with these fuses. One at a time though just to gauge the improvement in each piece of equipment. The REF-75se comes next. I'll report the results as the progression takes place. Stay tuned ...
Any comments from anyone else who has tried these fuses?
On the lack of information ... This is the type of thing that drives the engineer mentality crazy. Its completely understandable. If its not measurable, its not believable. The good news is, there are support groups for that condition as well. "Hello, my name is ... and I'm an engineer." :-)
On the 78 that I mentioned: The piece was an excerpt from Schubert's "Rosamunde" played by the Victor Orchestra, recorded in 1928. That was the cut with the good bass. Also on the disc is the theme from The Nutcracker played by the Freddie Martin orchestra. Its really good too.
Its pretty amazing that technology back then was as good as it was. The generations that came before us with their wind up Victrola's and their five pound tonearms sporting needles akin to tines on a pitchfork had no idea what was on those shellac discs. Of course most of them sound really bad by today's standards, but the good ones played back on a really good system is like a time machine back to the past. Now if only we had a Delorean and a crazy professor. :-)
By the way in case anyone is interested, I posted frequency response graphs in the ART-9 thread on some of the more popular (and expensive) MC cartridges to illustrate their rising top ends. Just little tricks of the cartridge trade ...
Did the multiple bouts of ugliness on this thread start with the advocates of the fuses attacking the character, motives, intent, judgement, mental competency, etc of those that choose not to use the fuses or vice versa?
I’m pretty sure Geofkait is an advocate and he does that consistently all the time when challenged and shows no signs of ever relenting. As long as he is on your side I guess that makes it OK?
The main problem is lack of information about the product to help convince the doubters and settle the arguments.. I think that’s one of Wolfs pet peeves and mine also.
Sorry GK who sells teleportation tweaks and listens to a walkman with no fuses because he thinks all hifi products are inferior in comparison carries little weight at least for me.
My red fuse is not being used. If I get some time maybe I’ll open it up, see whats inside, and share.
"Relatively civil in the end at least which is how things should be."
Absolutely right. The difference here is provocation. Did the multiple bouts of ugliness on this thread start with the advocates of the fuses attacking the character, motives, intent, judgement, mental competency, etc of those that choose not to use the fuses or vice versa?
FWIW there is a thread here on Class D amplifiers that Glofi and I had it out on a bit recently. The difference is there the discussion remained focused on the topic at hand and there is plenty of information out there to support various positions so it all proceeded relatively peacefully and informatively. There was little or no personal attacks or name calling as I recall. Relatively civil in the end at least which is how things should be.
kalali I honestly cannot believe I’m witnessing so much drama for just a fuse! I would be embarrassed to tell my "non-audiophile" friends such a thread even exists and worse yet, I’m actually posting on it. This is a sort of thing I expected to see from teenage girls fighting over which lipstick makes them look more cool.
I’m afraid you’ve broken the Audiophile Code of Silence, omertà. Audiophiles should never discuss certain things with non audiophile friends. Now that I think about it real audiophiles don’t have non audiophile friends. But if they do they would be well advised to NEVER discuss aftermarket fuses, directionality, crystals, the Green Pen, the Red X Pen, Mpingo discs or the Teleportation Tweak if they wish to keep those friends.
As a frequent and happy poster here I'd like to suggest a truce. One side isn't going to convince the other. Let's keep this very enjoyable thread as it has been. It seems the back and forth has run its course.
I honestly cannot believe I'm witnessing so much drama for just a fuse! I would be embarrassed to tell my "non-audiophile" friends such a thread even exists and worse yet, I'm actually posting on it. This is a sort of thing I expected to see from teenage girls fighting over which lipstick makes them look more cool.
Even though I was skeptical regarding if there would be much, if any, sonic improvements when installing SR black fuses I am very pleasantly surprised with what they've added to the sound. Yes, I can definitely hear more details, a more organic texture to notes and better imaging, but the best way I can describe the sound is that it's more real and "right" sounding. It's not as if they transformed the sound of my system, but they've sure made that which sounded very good that much better......and after what I've invested in my system their cost was nearly insignificant. If some want to say that's impossible and I'm crazy for hearing these improvements, so be it and paint me crazy.....and I'll keep enjoying listening to music that sounds better than it ever has in my room.
Thanks to all of those that have shared their positive results with these fuses. Without your enthusiastic reviews I might never have given them a try and I'm soooooo glad I did.
I don't mean to be overly critical but this whole fuse thing is really nothing more than a microcosm of the age-old mud fight between ADVANCED audiophiles and, well, you know...at this particular point in time it would appear the anti fuse delegation has run out of ammo again and are probably looking around for some more dummy loads.
As you can see from my posts in this thread, the experiences I've had with the SR Black fuses are just the opposite of what the commentator was saying in the PS Audio fuse thread.
fleschler, not here! George, if you think that those of us who claim that fuses can make a difference are just gullible, why are spending your time here? In any case, you've made your point, so please move on.
We don't want or need your sarcastic, uneducated remarks.
The gullible audiophiles do, to protect them from things said about fuses by members who's half of their total posts are about voodoo improvements with these holy grail of fuses!!!!
Quote: "I find that the SR black fuses increase the color and certainly the texture of instruments. The added detail and ambience give more life to the music, not just leading edge transients."
Wolf-Garcia and Georgelofi (your name indicates your concern for audio sound quality)-Leave this site to the believers. We don't want or need your sarcastic, uneducated remarks.
Fuses matter! Gear might fry without them. By all means use good ones to prevent that just like the good gear makers did originally to deliver that great sound and long life everyone wants.
I trust certain ones enough to buy their gear so who better to recommend a fuse when needed? Maybe even ask specifically about the SR option if that’s how you might like to roll.
I’d be interested to know what actual gear makers say about the SR or other high end fuse options in their specific gear that they know best.
Or you can just trust whoever on the internet you happen to decide is best qualified or you just happen to like or want to believe in for that recommendation.
Definitely do not do anything that might unknowingly invalidate any warranties.
fleschler 51 posts 01-26-2017 5:44am Highstream. I find that the SR black fuses increase the color and certainly the texture of instruments. The added detail and ambience give more life to the music, not just leading edge transients. Maybe in his system the SR fuses aren't working well.
Really!!!!!!!! you guys need to go back to natural, the hydro is messing with you. 51 posts and over half on fuse voodoo.
My nice clean ears are working fine, I rarely mix "Rock" shows these days doing mostly jazz, classical, and singer/songwriter stuff, and I doubt oregonpapa has attended those shows so he clearly has no clue what they sound like yet claims he does. For somebody as thin skinned as oregonpapa he sure gets riled up, and maybe shouldn't address questions to me directly since he claims to not care what I say. His impassioned and mocking responses make my point really. If you're secure in your position as shill for SR than the responses possibly should address questions specifically, instead of displaying a paranoid voodoo dance for the tribe. I have never speculated on the sound of any system other than my own, just simply pointed out the silliness of useless tweaks I've mostly tested or experienced myself, and have asked repeatedly if anybody knows why or how Magic Fuses work. Well, how do they work? (there…I asked again). I understand of course that many claim SR fuses add specific improvements to their systems, and asking how that happens is a reasonable question anywhere but here. Ask it here and risk the wrath of whining strangers who are so invested in SR products that the response to any questioning of the efficacy of the stuff can cause knee jerk, mocking responses from the faithful, and no actual reasoned answers that aren't personal theories. My mind is always open to things that might actually work in audio, but it takes more than a bullying gang mentality to convince me that the magic is science and not snake oil.
Highstream. I find that the SR black fuses increase the color and certainly the texture of instruments. The added detail and ambience give more life to the music, not just leading edge transients. Maybe in his system the SR fuses aren't working well.
OP the 78s I transferred were my parents mostly from around the early 1930’s. I heard and recall them when I was a kid and first fascinated with hifi and music on a variety of players from the 1950s.
What I hear now on my "good" system is not unlike what I heard then in terms of overall tonality (mostly midrange which makes for an interesting perspective on what is there given many things are not) but much more involving especially with my larger radial/omni OHM speaker based system since these speakers tend to make whatever comes through them sound like it is live in your room in terms of organic dimensional nature of the sound.
They are better than ever still even with more conventional speakers at work though.
I have one surviving 92 year old aunt in my family. I burned her a CD of these records from when she was a kid and she remembered them fondly and her face lit up when heard.
I have 7,000 78s and 100,000s of pre-LP recordings on CD and Vinyl. I play my 78s on a VPI 19-4 Ultracraft AC-400 and Grado elliptical cartridge. While this cartridge is acceptable for most post 1925 electric recordings, I don't get the best sound out of my acoustic 78's due to the various stylus sizes needed to track them correctly.
There is a new device called the sugar cube by simplyvinyl which eliminates pops and clicks and for now, gross surface noise from all recordings. It is being designed with 300 equalization curves for use with 78s. It uses a closed wireless system using a computer, iPad, or phone. It apparently does not alter the recording and has adjustable amount of noise eradication. It even has a switch to hear exactly what noise is being removed. Cost is $1500 and $2500 depending on additional features. It upscales to 192/24 rate and outputs many multiple digital rates.
As to 78s sound, they can be very exciting to hear in my high end system. I especially enjoy Marston records CDs of historic singers and pianists. Edison made near silent surfaced 78s from 1910-1914 which were never released so Ward Marston mastered 6 CDs with virgin pressings. They had smaller grooves with extended playtimes at 6 minutes for 10" and 10 minutes for 12" records. I can't wait to use the sugar cube on my 78s and defective LPs.
i could ramble on and on about.pre-LP recordings as they often contain rare and precious music.
Thanks for your replies. Over in the PS Audio fuse thread, one commenter has been rather vehement in arguing that SR fuses are very tilted and wrong sounding, accentuating the leading edge of transients over the natural bloom of instrumental texture and color. He claims the Audio Magic SHM beeswax fuse buries the SR black. What’s struck me in reading this Agon thread - and other comments on the PS Audio one - is that no one else has suggested anything similar about the Black. What he describes could be only relative, but normally shouldn’t need an A-B test to hear on the quality of equipment many here are using.
I burned a copy of Robert's 78 CD recording but I didn't take note of the artists, orchestras or performances. It was a compilation of a number of recordings. There's surface noise as one would expect from 78's, but the music is there.
mapman ...
There's something really charming about the sound of the orchestrations on good 78's. They always remind me of the movies my mom would take me to when I was a kid. She always had music around her and she loved the old musical movies. Lots of good stuff like Betty Hutton, Dan Daily, Betty Grable, Gene Kelly, ....
Check this Joe Houston recording out. I bought this when I was in Jr. High in 1953. Cost me a grand total of fifty cents ... brand new. This is what we listened to before the British Invasion and before Elvis hit the scene. It was rock & roll, but before the guitar replaced the saxophone.
I’ve transferred a number of old 78 records from those days to my music server and agree they are an "interesting" sonic treat.
The other day I was listening to a professionally remastered CD version of Moonlight Serenade by Glenn Miller. Audiophile sound quality for sure in terms of natural sounding if not the nth degree in all technical attributes.
I love CD remasters of classics from the oldest days of recorded music. They are true music gems and most remastered well are quite unique and hold up nicely in comparison to many modern recordings. I could listen to that music all day long.
Hello Highstream, Although I’ve had no blown Black fuses (slo blo) in my components I believe as others have stated, moving up 1 step for ampere rating is an acceptable practice.
Frank, Good sound quality and bass from a 1928 recording? Now that is truly a special and rare treat. Who are the artists and what music is being performed? Charles
I'm relaxed ... and I don't take Wolf Man Jack seriously either. I just had a sudden hankering to indulge myself in a little creative writing. Therefore, my previous post. :-)
highstream ...
Thank you for mentioning the music recommendations. Like I said before, in the end its all about the music.
I wish I could recommend the recordings Robert and I used for tonight's listening session, but to find them would be almost impossible. Robert brought over some CD's that he had burned years ago from a really good 78 setup he had at the time. I know he used a Grado 78 cartridge run through a Yamaha line stage's phono section.
We listened to mostly classical music with the best performance and sound coming from a 78rpm record that was recorded in 1928. Very natural sounding with bass that one wouldn't imagine could come from these old recordings.
I don’t need any convincing about fuses, having tried HI-Fi Supreme and Acme before settling on Furutech’s and their GTX (R) outlets for the past year and a half. From that perspective, I’ve been working my way through this thread day by day, but to jump ahead and ask now: Is the recommendation for blacks still to go up a value on the slow-blow’s? I’m talking about a couple of dacs that take 1A and powered speakers that take 2A and 5A. Don’t know about the Oppo 103 and 203, as I haven’t opened either yet.
Btw, I've found the greatest thing about this thread, even better than the good fuse discussion, have been all the suggestions about artists and recordings. Many thanks,
Over the last year+ that this thread has been in existence, our friend Wolf Man Jack, aka wolf-garcia, has made the following acidic accusations and assertions:
I am ...
1. A "shill" for SR. 2. An employee of SR. 3. Receiving a paycheck from SR.
And now, he comes forth to inform us that we who have transformed our systems with SR tweaks are:
1. Personally insecure. 2. We require "validation from others of our special listening skills."
3. That we live in a world of fantasy.
Also spewing from Wolf Man Jack's brain cells are insane and inane claims that the designers at SR are:
1. Foisting off a faux product onto naive audiophiles. 2. Manufacturing a faulty product. 3. Making an obscene profit. 4. That Ted Denny, the design engineer for SR, is a "snake oil salesman."
All of this coming from a guy who has never heard my system or the systems of anyone else posting here.Nor has he ever met Ted Denny, me, or anyone else reading this post.
All of this acidic poison is coming from a guy who makes a living producing sound for live concerts; venues that I have long ago stopped going to because of the incredibly high decibel levels attained at most of them. The last one was a Jon Luc Ponty concert years ago that was so loud I thought bombs were going off inside my head, the result of which, was like dragging dental floss through my ears. I walked out. Small venues, fine ... but no more rock concerts that try to pass deafening decibel levels off as good music. That's Wolf Man Jack's world, not mine.
Over time here on the A'gon site, I have promoted products that have actually made a significant improvement in my system and therefore have had the effect of improving the enjoyment of my recording collections. I would have to ask Wolf Man Jack, aka wolf-garcia, if I am also on the payroll, or a shill for:
1. Audio Research Corp. 2. David Magnan's cables. 3. Von Gaylord (Ray Leung's) cables. 4. Ben's Shatki Holographs. 5. Origin Live's custom turntable belts. 6. Audio-Technica's cartridges. 7. Well Tempered Turntables and all of the various tweaks necessary to bring one of these tables up as close as possible to state of the art performance.
Hey Wolf Man Jack ... Is Bill Firebaugh a "snake oil salesman" too?
All of the above, and much more, have made significant improvements in my system and have brought it to heights that I never would have imagined could be obtained in one's listening room. When I find something that really works, I find it fun to share it with my fellow audiophile friends, and I have with all of the above. That's all.
I want to assure Wolf Man Jack, aka wolf-garcia, that he hasn't affected me in any way ... other than to add a bit of humor, and at times an incredulous insight into a mind slammed shut.
In the meantime, I continue to travel along the path of what I believe to have been a wonderful journey through a positive life filled with a great family, wonderful friends, a lucrative career, great literature and of course, wonderful music.
Hello George (jetter), I agree with you regarding the fun and discovery of sharing recordings and introducing unfamiliar artists. Regarding audio systems and upgrading there seem to be 2 general approaches of equal merit. 1 Buy /replace components to improve one’s current sound quality. 2 Keep the current components and attempt to maximize their capabilities.
I have gone both routes over the years and had sucessful outcomes. I’ve decided that my current system is the best I’ve owned and after 7 years of joy this is very likely my final system. For this reason I want to extract all or nearly all it has to give sonically. Vibration management, better tubes, capacitors, fuses, wall AC outlets have all been exceptionally gratifying tweaks.
IMO it has elevated the "very good " to the tier of superb, resulting in even a greater and deeper level of listening pleasure.
George, these are needless to say personal choices we make. I can only attest to my experiences, in my case the tweaking and selected upgrading of parts and accessories has been utterly rewarding. As we all can appreciate, to each their own. I spend many hours listening to music and enjoy every moment of doing so. Charles
"...but there is room for ear wax removal kits and I’ve been using that stuff for decades. Highly recommended."
You’ve been using it for decades? I’ll bet you have. It’s all starting to make sense now as to your difficulty hearing. I imagine you remove ear wax the size of golf balls, no?
One can’t help wondering if all of the naysayers, the fuse denyers, are of a certain age when their hearing is pretty much shot, you know, nothing above 8 or 10 KHz.
Oregonpapa, you do seem delusional as I'm absolutely certain that fuses, when working properly, can't and don't provide any sonic improvement, and in the case of SRs poorly designed fuses they can and have provided the act of surprisingly melting, which unfortunately does have audible effects. The manufacturers of these things know this, and also know they can market these insanely profitable faux upgrades by simply claiming they work, regardless of any actual technical support for these claims. There are plenty of fans of useless audio tweaks who's personal insecurity requires validation from others of their "special listening skills," and I get that. I'm on the front lines of live music as a concert mixer and producer and among that crowd of working professionals there simply isn't room for fantasy among the people who actually make music…well, most of them anyway...but there is room for ear wax removal kits and I've been using that stuff for decades. Highly recommended.
Thank you for that very clear explanation. I have often read about your new music discoveries and your love of music does come through your posts. On your and Charles' suggestion I have gone to utube and watched/listened to a number of the tunes presented in this thread.
I do hope that there are not too many people who read these threads who are getting caught up in an endless upgrade cycle because they think it is the only way to audio nirvana. A number of posters (not necessarily on this thread) have not so subtly insinuated that if you haven't owned countless pieces of costly equipment you cannot have the knowledge to know if you have a good system. Lets face it, good equipment is astronomically priced compared to when we were younger.
The greatest tweak of all is to be able to be satisfied with what you have and as you said, enjoy the music.
"At a certain point saying how much you love your sound and then doing anything to change it under the guise of refinement seems disingenuous and bound to fail."
It seems to me, Jetter, that people come to this hobby in two flavors. There are equipment freaks and then there are music lovers. As for me, any improvement I make to the system that gets me closer to the music, I'm all in.
While I do "love" the sound currently offered up by the system, if the installation of a new tweak, Herbie's tube dampeners for example (highly recommended), allows for more realism, especially in the area of correct tonal balance, I'm on it.
I agree with you to a point Jetter ... most seasoned audiophiles have met the type who spend an ungodly amount on their equipment and have a paltry music collection consisting of mostly "audiophile" type of recordings. These are the equipment freaks who are just chasing their tails.
On the other hand, there are those who have thousands of recordings in their collections who listen through modified Dyna 70's and Dyna Pas-3's and enjoy every second of it. I wouldn't fault this guy for upgrading to a nice ARC Classic 60 and an ARC SP-14. Or for that matter, fault him/her for just sticking SR Black fuses in his Dyna equipment. Same thing applies all the way up the line.
When ever I'm invited to hear a system in a home for the first time, I always check the music collection out first. It says all one needs to know.
Al from my perspective, your summary is the one presented here that best accounts for most all actual experiences related here with the fuses. That’s an indicator of a sound argument. Not to mention your large and sterling track record of providing valuable unbiased posts based on sound technical facts and reason here over many years.
Arguments based on defects with other peoples hearing or systems are totally unsubstantiated since the system in question have never been heard in support of the argument. Its not even an opinion rather a conclusion based on no actual fact or information other than a belief or assertion that the fuses must always make a difference which of course can never be proven, only that they can or may in certain cases.
Attempts to discredit or even chase away those with different or unpopular findings in my mind in fact discredits the accuser, not the intended victim. Its a reaction based purely on emotion or some other agenda and holds no water whatsoever. Pure bully tactics.
My issues or reservations are with Synergistic Research and their products discussed here specifically. I have not observed the value as a pricey (as fuses go) upgrade over the fuse provided in my Audio Research pre-amp in my particular case. That’s it.
Also I would tend to not buy products from Synergistic Research specifically based on my experience to date and assessment of information provided by SR on their products to date. That’s my judgement call based on my experience. Others obviously love their stuff.
Nyame 1-23-2017 It is very difficult to respond rationally to to this type of convoluted nonsense. The only way to determine whether a fuse make a difference is to listen to it. No "measured data" can make this determination. This is why final evaluation of high quality audio products has to pass a listening test before approved for sale.
I agree, aside from the first sentence. My statement to which you were responding did not say or imply anything to the contrary.
The only question is whether the resolution of the playback system is is good enough to allow the difference to be heard. Not all playback systems have the benefits of tuned acoustics, absence from vibrations, optimized loudspeaker placement, good grounding etc
The sound quality and musical resolution of a component or system does not **necessarily** go hand in hand with the sensitivity of a component design to fuse differences, or its sensitivity to any other differences in hardware or tweaks for that matter. Conflating musical resolution and the sensitivity of a design to hardware differences is a common audiophile misconception, IMO, as I have said in a number of past threads. Although there will often tend to be at least a loose degree of correlation between the two, of course.
To cite just one example illustrating that point, among countless others that could be cited, a speaker having low impedance and highly capacitive impedance phase angles, and/or an impedance that varies widely as a function of frequency, will tend to be more revealing of amplifier and speaker cable differences than one that is easy to drive and has a relatively flat impedance curve. Even though that says nothing about which speaker will provide better sound quality or superior resolution of musical detail.
It is THE POWER SUPPLY that is reponsible for the improvements. The fuse allow the power supply to perform more effectively and this, not the fuse, is responsible for the improved performance.
This is a meaningless distinction, IMO.
I DID NOT CONCLUDE THAT THE FUSE ITSELF IS INHERENTLY DIRECTIONAL.
Thank you for the clarifications you provided on this in response to comments by the others. FWIW, I did not say that **you** concluded that a fuse is inherently directional.
Does any one on this forum really believe that Oregonpapa (The OP of this thread ) is delusional. Can all the many positive reviews of the Synergistic Research fuses on this thread, and in other forums, explained away by saying they are being misled by "perceived effects of the wrong variable?
I have considerable respect for Frank’s system, sonic perceptiveness, and sincerity. My statement certainly did not imply that extraneous variables are responsible for all or even most of the reported differences. However I would feel safe in assuming that they were a factor in **some** of the reports. Especially when it comes to claims of inherent directionality.
In any event, as things stand now it seems clear that the thread has encompassed a plethora of reported experiences, opinions, and technical considerations covering all sides of the issue. Those reading the thread can and will form their own conclusions as to whom and what to believe, and as to how and if to proceed with any fuse upgrades that may be considered.
Regards, -- Al
P.S: My thanks are extended to those who expressed favorable reactions to the summary in my previous post, "believers" and "non-believers" alike.
In response to request by georgelofi for SR statement on fuse directionality. From somewhere in cyberspace,
Valerio, In my experience nearly all fuses are directional including SR Quantum Fuses. I recommend you try them in one component at at time and experiment with directionality. You should immediately notice a preference for one direction or the other. If a component has more than one fuse use a DVM (Digital Volt Meter) to determine direction of current in the circuit. Once you know the direction of current in each fuse holder place all fuses in like direction paying attention to have the letters on the SR Quantum Fuses all in the same direction either reading in the direction of signal flow, or against. Next switch direction and the correct match to your component should be readily apparent. There are just too many variables for me to make a blanket recommendation for all components when such a simple and definitive test is available.
As to having to take a reviewers word for it (or not,) regarding which fuse to try / buy you have the option to audition SR Quantum Fuses for 30 days in your system with a full refund of the cost of the fuse should you elect to go a different way. Our 30-day no risk audition policy takes the guess work out of trying SR Quantum Fuses and is offered because I am certain we make the best sounding fuses in the world.
Yours in music, Ted Denney III Lead Designer, Synergistic Research Inc.
Not directed towards anyone, just a general comment.
I'm still old school and believe that when someone has the need to repeatedly (emphasized) change interconnects, speaker cables, power cables, fuses, power outlets, power supplies, etc. its not refinement they need, but a major change in the overall sound of their system. A change that can only be achieved by changing components. At a certain point saying how much you love your sound and then doing anything to change it under the guise of refinement seems disingenuous and bound to fail. IMHO
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