I installed a SR RED Quantum fuse in my ARC REF-3 preamp a few days ago, replacing an older high end fuse. Uhh ... for a hundred bucks, this little baby is well worth the cost. There was an immediate improvement upon installation, but now that its broken in (yes, no kidding), its quite remarkable. A tightening of the focus, a more solid image, and most important of all for my tastes, a deeper appreciation for the organic sound of the instruments. Damn! ... cellos sound great! Much improved attack on pianos. More humanistic on vocals. Bowed bass goes down forever. Next move? .... I'm doing the entire system with these fuses. One at a time though just to gauge the improvement in each piece of equipment. The REF-75se comes next. I'll report the results as the progression takes place. Stay tuned ...
Any comments from anyone else who has tried these fuses?
Expectation bias gets a bad rap. 😃 There are many reasons why audiophiles sometimes get bad results with certain devices or tweaks especially the more controversial ones. One of the more controversial tweaks the Tice Clock was one of those controversial tweaks that inspired all sorts of comments and user results, not unlike the those we see with aftermarket fuses and such. In response to letter to Stereophile magazine from a disgruntled customer who was apparently not totally satisfied with his Tice Clock George Tice responded with a letter of his own to Stereophile in which he described the four reasons folks sometimes don't get the results they expected. To whit,
1. There is one or more problems in the system used to test the device/tweak.
2. The customer's hearing or listening skills is not all that's it's cracked up to be.
3. There was a failure to follow instructions or to execute them properly.
4. The system used for the test is not sufficiently resolving to reveal the effects of the device or tweak.
Cleeds, Yes I agree there are limits to expectation bias. My point is that those who attribute all positive outcomes with the Black fuses to this bias are being disingenuous and ultimately intellectually lazy. Even at the late stages (15 months at this point) of this long running thread new users of these fuses continue to emerge with their positive listening experiences. To dismiss them and the many who preceeded them as mere expectation bias victims borders on the absurd. Charles
...
I’m sure most reasonable people will acknowledge that "expectation bias
" is applicable to both positive and "negative " positions. . You can
certainly be convinced that something is not possible and this adamant
mindset potentially inhibits the possibility of fair and open minded
assessment ... to accuse those
who do hear improvement as simply suffering from expectation bias (which
is possible in some cases) the converse is just as valid for the deny
campers as well.
This is absolutely true, and often overlooked. Oddly, those who consider themselves objectivists often dismiss their vulnerability to expectation bias.
There are limits to expectation bias, however, so it shouldn't be cited as the cause for every result. For example, I have sometimes made a system change that I was sure would make no audible difference, only to be surprised that it did result in a difference. The opposite has also happened to me. So it is a rather unpredictable form of bias.
I don't doubt that you don't hear any sonic improvements with the SR fuses, I doubt there's any product that works for everyone. I appreciate you at least gave them a try. I don't understand how you can state that the fuses can't change the sonics of our systems because all they do is pass AC through them. Couldn't the same be said of power cords and other wiring? Paul McGowan of PS Audio has articles on their site that states since the fuse is the bottleneck of the entire AC pathway its small wire which carries the current that supplies our components can have a great impact upon that current. He mentions that early design prototypes of their products didn't have fuses and sounded much better than when they added fuses for the production models. They had to re-design the production model to get it to sound like it did without fuses. Their belief is the best sound is not having a fuse ( something they obviously can't do) with audiophile fuses improving upon the necessary evil of a fuse. I think most agree that components sound better without fuses, wouldn't that suggest that fuses will have an impact on sound? Whether it's better conductivity and/or increased EFI/RFI shielding I could see where the SR fuses could improve upon the weak link in the AC pathway and therefore improving sound quality. While I don't possess the knowledge to explain how SR fuses might work I can see how they could improve the sound and I think Paul McGowan is onto something. Just my two cents worth......with inflation I probably make no cents ( or is that that sense :)
Jafreeman, I’m sure most reasonable people will acknowledge that "expectation bias " is applicable to both positive and "negative " positions. . You can certainly be convinced that something is not possible and this adamant mindset potentially inhibits the possibility of fair and open minded assessment.
If one were to take a very strong and repeated stance that a given product offers no value or improved performance if could be quite difficult to approach this product with any degree of genuine objectivity. In this scenario the mind is already made up.
It can be difficult to step off a soapbox and admit that you were wrong. Not an impossible task but definitely not easy either. Is it possible to try these Black fuses and hear no difference? Yes. But to accuse those who do hear improvement as simply suffering from expectation bias (which is possible in some cases) the converse is just as valid for the deny campers as well. Charles
Listener testimony here continues to confirm the sonic benefits of installing SR Blacks in AC mains, rails and, in my case, Maggie 3.6R tweeter and midrange signal paths. The conducting materials in the SR's are superior to the tiny filaments in ordinary fuses. The evidence reported here over these past months, however anecdotal, has overwhelmed the insistence of the skeptics and outright deniers that we cannot be hearing what we are reporting. Wolf, you just revealed how your own expectation bias worked in your system--this time against hearing SR improvements. You say you had doubt going in and you came out with nothing, a conclusion you hold as a basis for telling us we are imagining things. You are simply not qualified in telling anyone what they are or are not experiencing; you can be right only in terms of your own experience.
I don't "continue doubting" as I did a comprehensive test after doubting, and verified what I suspected: Fuses don't, and should not, do anything but pass AC through them (in both directions which is what AC does) and melt if needed when designed properly (properly in this case means rated to a standard, which SR fuses seemingly are not). If you think you hear any sonic improvements from 'em, it's imagined or from something else, although for many it seems "imagined" is clearly enough.
I'll say it again for the umpteenth time ... I am a salesman and not an engineer. I do not care how the fuses work, only that they do. Its a mystery to me why you continue doubting in the face of all of the positive comments in this thread ... all 74 pages of it at this point. I suggest that you call Ted Denny at SR and ask him how they work. He's the designer and the engineer and most likely has all of the technical jargon to satisfy your curiosity.
Thanks, Charles. I envy wolf. He is saving a lot of money :)
Mac, you ever visit LA, shoot me a line. I make a mean burger, and have plenty of beer on tap.
Anyway, thanks to all of you. As I said before, this thread has been of immense help. Even if these fuses didn't work for me, I'm glad to see so many like minded people sharing their opinions. It's been entertaining, informative, amusing, and made me feel connected to this hobby even more.
Jason, Wolf did try the Black fuses in his system and said it offered no improvement compared to his stock fuses. Very different experience from mine but I certainly accept his result. Different ears, room, components etc. We can only report what we hear. Charles
An interesting comment: "Oregonpapa, continuing to promote these things with silly nonsense is like continuing to try to ride a dead horse" Or,should one say "a dead parrot"???
Wolf, I found this on another thread and it may (or may not) answer your question: auxinput 309 posts 11-17-2016 12:31pm The idea that fuses and power supply components are not part of the signal chain is not entirely correct. Anything coming in from the A/C, power cables, fuses, rectifiers, regulators, or power supplies can all become part of the output signal.
An operational amplifier circuit (whether discrete or monolithic op amp) will only pass through the actual signal if the signal is coming in on the inverting input of the op amp AND the negative feedback gain is unity gain (0 gain) or less than unity gain (i.e. it’s forcing op amp to de-amplify the signal). In this case, the waveform signal will actually route itself around the op amp using the negative feedback line as a pathway. That being said, even with unity gain, the type of op amp or power supply elements will still influence the character or sonic signature of the audio.
If the negative feedback circuit is set to create a "gain" (or amplify), it increases the voltage of the waveform by using voltage from the positive/negative rails from the power supply (i.e. +/-15V). This additional voltage is sent through the output pin of the op amp. It this case, the fuse, power cord, A/C elements will contribute to the character of the waveform (in the sense of affecting how the op amp slews in relating to the input waveform, how far/fast it slews, character of the DC noise, etc.).
In a power amp circuit, the output transistors have to create massive gain (turning a 1V input into something like 15-100 watts or more). It has to use the A/C power coming in to create this voltage, so your signal is actually something like 98% A/C voltage.
You make me wish I lived in LA Jason! Beer while listening to good music with music lovers? Nice. Like you I have no idea how these fuses do what they do.......nor do I care. I don't know exactly how most of my equipment works and thankfully that doesn't diminish my joy of listening to it one iota. Hiding the actual cost of our audio obsession from our significant others? Ignorance is bliss, right? :)
Ptss: I'm a photographer. And, work in sales, but cameras, not audio gear. The nickname came from people telling me I had a way that I blurred into the background, and captured great candids of people. I call my my speakers my "mistresses", because I spend as much time with them, as I do my wife to be, who is also an audiophile, her name is Jocelyn. She's a teacher, a brilliant artist, and loves music maybe more than I do.
So, on top of being blurry, I'm also very (wait for it...) transparent.
Have fun with that.
Wolf, I have no idea what they do. If I did, I'd manufacturer my own, and save myself money. The skepticism is healthy. Well before to fuse craze started, back when I was younger and much poorer, I noticed that ceramic and glass fuses sounded different. Stranger, still, different manufactures of glass fuses sounded different. I don't know why that is, but it was audible, and repeatable.
Generally, I've stayed away from aftermarket fuses, even prior Synergistic fuses, because for what good they did, they also introduced some bad. Outside of one lone Furutech fuse in my amp, everything's been stock, with whatever fuses came in the gear. It seemed like a waste of money to gamble on change, when there was no guarantee that the change would be good.
This Black Fuse has no downsides. Assuming you like your gear, and the music it creates, it'll just make what you hear sound more open, increase space and size while filling space better, with no change in tonality, and no spotlighting of any frequencies.
I understand the skeptic camp, and as much as I'd love to do an a/b test for any of you, I get the sense that you're more interested in being right than sharing the experience with me, and posting your own results here. Knowledge is all fine and good, but what I've experienced with this fuse in place is running head first into what I know. In that fight, experience wins.
But, if anyone would like to hear it for yourself, and live in the Los Angeles area, send me a private message, and I'd be happy to give you a listen, have you meet Jocelyn, hand you a beer, and whether or not you hear a difference, we can talk about other things like good music, what started us in being audiophiles, and they debt were hiding from our significant others pursuing it :)
Hi Jason, Your findings are consistent with many other Black fuse users. No they do not alter the innate sonic character of a given component. Instead they have the effect of enhancing what good qualities were already there. It’s as if things become a bit purer and as a result realism takes a step forward. Charles
Well wolf you asked soooo. The black fuse I put on my nose when I listen and it makes everything sound supremely better. And I mean gloriously better, if you know what I mean. As I sit there I try to balance the fuse upright on it's end 4.21349486" from my ears. I got the idea from sound resonators and diffusors. The facts are that I cannot balance an littlefuse, bussman,acme or any other foreign made fuse on my nose. I know that's what I thought. I should be able to balance another fuse on my nose, but sorry parley farley for the life of me I cannot. And then I know these fuses are directional because I can balance them only on one of the ends. Those are the facts wolf nothing but the facts. Because of the huuuge success I have had with these fuses I recommend them to everyone especially you.
Question…We know that many claim these fuses do something to improve things in their gear, but how do they do whatever it is they do? Facts please. Thanks in advance.
Great review jason,your results mirror mine.......and many others. I was extremely skeptical that these fuses could make any difference, let alone the marked improvement they did. I've never played with their direction as my system is sounding so good I don't want to mess with it. Congrats on your success with them and happy listening!
After a solid week of using the fuse in, what I deem, is the "proper" orientation in my system, I've got a pretty good handle on what it's done to the sound.
First it's added for space and dimensionality to the sound. Like, layers and layers. It's easily confirmed by placing the old fuse back in place. The soundstage collapses noticeably, and the and while it's still pleasant mostly, the highs harden, and there's an obvious loss in layering.
Second, the fuse simply expands what is there. It doesn't change the tonality of the system, or emphasize detail, or add smoothness. But, it does offer the ability for more detail to be heard, by opening up the sound field, and music seems smoother, because of the ease that detail is heard. Bass is deeper, but again, not emphatically so. There's just more of everything.
Its not a fuse I would recommend for a piece of gear someone is not happy with. It doesn't seem to change the tone or character of a piece of gear. It just brings out more of it out, and allows it to sound more effortless. On my Parasound P7, the same light and open character of the preamp is present with the stock fuse as it is with the Synergistic Black Fuse, but the music with the Black Fuse sounds effortlessly expansive, and a good deal of the strain and compression is gone, making long listening sessions when Roon flips between beautiful to bad recordings far easier and more pleasurable to deal with.
Now, if I can figure out how to get the glass top off my Wadia 321, I'll get another Black Fuse in there, and see if the effect can be duplicated.
Thanks again, to all who contributed to this thread. It's been a big help to keep an open mind, and has ultimately led me on a path that allows me to enjoy listening to music even more than I already did.
Cheers George No sinister thoughts at all Was just perusing a thread earlier tonight where you were prevalent and I knew it was lofi...lol Just wanted to make sure I was not going nuts......... Well I maybe but you know what I mean
uberwaltz105 posts03-08-2017 2:03pmI only have one question... When did Georgelofi become Georgehifi?
hifi was my original registered name back in 2006 but for some reason got bugged so I had to change to lofi, thanks to Tammy at Audiogon saw the stupid comments I was receiving with that name so they saw fit to resurrect my registered old one for me as that’s what it is on every other audio forum I’m on also.
No sinister things going on, as I’m sure some are thinking.
"What WAS said was the SYSTEM sounds out of phase with the fuse installed in the improper direction. Now I’ve heard everything, total snake oil voodoo.
These guys must be turning in their graves, at the stuff being spoken here. Laws of electronics were discovered by Georg Ohm, Charles Augustin de Coulomb and Gustav Kirchhoff and are known as Ohms law, Coulomb’s Law and Kirchhoff’s laws."
Chill, honey bear. No laws of electronics or physics have been broken. Even James Maxwell can rest easy in his grave. If anything, the directional nature of fuses and wire in general is supported by the laws of electronics and physics, inasmuch as photons traveling along copper or other metal wire, anything with a deformed crystal structure, favor one direction over the other. Kind of like water running off a porcupine’s back. In fact, the measured differences in resistance/conductivity of fuses that appear on HiFi Tuning’s data sheets bear this out. Hel-loo!
What WAS said was the SYSTEM sounds out of phase with the fuse installed in the improper direction.
Now I’ve heard everything, total snake oil voodoo.
These guys must be turning in their graves, at the stuff being spoken here. Laws of electronics were discovered by Georg Ohm, Charles Augustin de Coulomb and Gustav Kirchhoff and are known as Ohms law, Coulomb’s Law and Kirchhoff’s laws.
Oregonpapa, continuing to promote these things with silly nonsense is like continuing to try to ride a dead horse…read my second line…or not, but I’ll try to word things more carefully in the future so you can get the drift. Also, asking how an aggressively marketed and hyped relatively expensive tweak works is a pretty simple and utterly appropriate question, especially amid claims that the tweak does a lot to improve the sound of your rig. It only seems like a weird question when there apparently isn’t an answer available from people who use them, or the companies that sell useless faux technology. If a fuse can have the power to make a system sound "out of phase," there’s something mysteriously wrong with that fuse (the nano electron polishers are on a lunch break maybe?) as I doubt anybody has had that happen with standard issue fuses. I know what "out of phase" sounds like as I rig mics professionally, wire up things, etc., but to have a system "seem" out of phase from a fuse seems incredible. I realize all faith based illogical things have that "incredible" element so it’s not surprising to see this as part of the Magic Fuser’s world, neither is the act by True Believers of responding to a simple question by both defending nonsensical statements and substituting ridicule for answers when questioned.
Please point out where anyone said that the fuse was out of phase. You're reading way too much into this. What WAS said was the SYSTEM sounds out of phase with the fuse installed in the improper direction.
Again ... other than you and perhaps a couple of others, who cares how the fuse works?
Fuses, which by nature (AC current device) cannot be "out of phase," are by nature never out of phase. If a fuse has the potential to utterly mess up the sound of your rig by being installed backwards, there is an alternative universe in play. Also, I hope nobody minds (well, not really) if I pose the questions once again, exactly what does a "special" fuse do? How does it work and why? How do the designers come up with the designs? I personally assume a tiny shoeshine worker is in the fuse capsule, polishing the electrons and sending them along in a specific direction. A nano-worker if you will. Is that about right?
Very nice and sincere post from you and I'm glad you're yet another listener who has found success with these better fuses. For the record Geoff has not been anti upgrade fuse in his commentary on this thread.
The SR Black fuses seem to bring out the "humanness" in what is really no more than music reproduction in our homes. How they work is of no consequence to me at all ... only that they do. Do they work in all systems? Obviously not ... see Mapman's comments in this thread. But, for the vast majority who have tried the fuses, their assessment is most assuredly like yours, David's, Charles', mine and many others posting here. Most of the positive results being reported are by very seasoned audiophiles with decades of experience in the hobby. We are people who have been burned by certain tweaks over the years ... and when something works as well as the SR Black fuses do, well ... we want to shout it from the rooftops.
i want to thank oregonpapa for starting this thread. And both the supporters and naysayers, alike, for sharing their experience and doubt within. Honestly, both have been a big help.
I recently installed a black fuse in my Parasound P7. The consensus about the 70ish hour was right on. Upon insertion, the sound was promising, then after a day, everything collapsed, and became sharp and fatiguing. All hifi, no music.
After about 4 days, it sounded better, but still not as good as it did the day I inserted it, so I played with reversing the fuse, and sat for hour long sessions with the same playlist, to determine which way the fuse wanted to go. One way, the music was exciting and visceral, if a little flat. The other way, just sounded like music in my room. Instead of the system's bass or soundstage creating the drama in the music, musicians are as close to being in my room as they ever have been, and THEY are creating the drama in the music.
The space, and utter silence that music now breathes out from is uncanny! And the ambiance that fills the space between solid performers is not only the best I've ever heard, it is beyond anything I thought my system was capable of before.
Best of all, it's made all my non audiophile approved music (basically, the majority of what I listen to) sound better. Tool, Deftones, Boston, Smashing Pumpkins, Shawn Mullins, XTC, Katy Perry, New Order, Depeche Mode; it is all more engaging.
But when i put on my hi res recordings of Billie Holiday, Vladamir Ashkenazy, Stan Getz, Ben Webster, Rush, Van Morrison, I'm left utterly bowled over at how convincingly the performance is taking place in my god damn room.
I just wanted to say thanks to Oregon, and David, and many others in this thread who shared their positive experiences, which got me looking at this product.
And, thanks to Wolf, George, Geoff, and other who expressed their skepticism, which forced me to listen with my own ears, and form my own opinions.
But, after putting the stock fuse in last night, i heard a pleasantly decent system that was fun to listen to, but no where near as engaging and uncannily real as it sounds with the Synergistic Black Fuse in place. Returning the black fuse this morning, and my system went away, and music returned into my room.
I encourage people to continue to share their experiences and sketicism, because these things help guide all of us, to make decisions that are right for us as individuals, and helps us find commonality as people in an ever increasingly isolated world. Even if most of the pro fuse camp doesn't agree with people like Geoff, i assume most of us agree that he has a fantastic sense of humor. Commonality comes from what we connect with, not who we agree with.
Thanks to all of you for all of your help, even if it was given unknowingly, it was taken with the deepest appreciation I can offer.
Hey PTSS, not sure what you need but it is pretty straightforward.......remove the top cover on the Sony, locate the 2 fuses toward the middle of the unit and pull the old fuse out of it's horizontal holder (I used a device, don't know what it's called, but is somewhere between a tweezer and pliers to make it easier to grab hold) then pop the new one in. Of course, disconnect the power first. Is there something specific otherwise that I can answer?
^^^^ ... It takes some experimentation. Rotate one fuse at a time. If its in the wrong direction the system will sound out of phase. The sound stage may even appear larger but it will be diffused and vague. Installed in the proper direction and everything comes into focus.
ZORRO Thanks for your reply . I also been placed fuses with arrow point down and the wadia as well . sound very good so far . I just bought another SR black for Mcintosh C50 preamp , do you have any idea with arrow point LEFT or Right ? I currently place fuse with arrow to RIGHT ! ( from front view of C50 i flip 180 degree from right to left , bottom of C50 face up then I set fuse into it with arrow to RIGHT , dont know and not sure it is right or wrong ! ) Best regards !
mar14lee 1 posts 02-26-2017 6:39pm Hello everyone , i am new bee and need your help !!! I bought 2 SR black fuses for my Mcintosh MC 501 and 1 for my wadia 781 i . The question i need help that which direction of arrow on fuses go into the amp and the CD player ? *** for MC 501 the arrow point down or point up ? *** *** and the wadia 781 i arrow point down or up ? **** Thank you for your help . Cheers .
With my 501's I got a better results with the arrow point down.
Hi Butler, My introduction to upgrade fuses came via positive comments from fellow audiogon members Grannyring and Agear. I’ve had listening experiences with various components they both were impressed with and my impressions mirrored theirs. Four years ago I had a "what the heck" attitude and bought a SR 20 Quantum fuse from the Cable Company knowing they’d easily accept returns without any hassle.
That fuse stayed and I subsequently bought 3 more. I moved to the Red and eventually the Black fuses and the sound improved each step along the way. I’m glad your willingness to try the better fuses resulted in a sucessful outcome. I think it’s good to have negative posters contribute here for a sense of balance, so to speak. My belief is that sensible adults can simply decide for themselves as you have demonstrated (among many others). Charles
Getting the most music out of our systems has been one of the topics of discussion in this thread. As you read through you'll find lots of music recommendations ... and what we've referred to as getting a more "organic" sound. The SR Black fuses really help in this regard. Most of those posting in this thread are music lovers first with the equipment/tweaks just allowing us to get closer to our music. Its what keeps me coming back to this thread actually.
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
