And yet Georgie still abuses and insults and nothing happens.
Figures.
Figures.
334 responses
I've tried various tweaks from several manufacturers...some tweaks I have kept from some manufacturers and some I have not (from the same manufacturer!) - Some are more discernible than others, some preferable (perhaps system balancing). But good grief you have to be deaf not to hear some of the differences - seriously...but hey, I have friends that can't taste the difference between a napa cab from a highly respected wine maker and cheap red wine...I can taste the difference and to me and my budget its worth it to me to buy and drink the "better" , and yes more expensive, stuff. But hey if it's all made from the same varietal of grapes, why should it taste any different? But do I criticize my friends who can't taste the difference? Nope, I just don't waste the good stuff on them, I keep it for myself...and yes, I have inexpensive red wine in my cellar for just that occasion...are they still my friends? Absolutely...I respect their pallet lust like they respect mine...Oh, and by the way, watch some of the wine documentaries on netflix...some folks have olfactory that is WAYYYYY better than others...so...perhaps it goes to reason that some have better hearing???? |
Love your wine analogy as I haven't been to a tasting since the onset of Covid. Thankfully, on June 16th everything is supposed to open (in California) and maybe I can get back to my weekend love affair with all of those varietals. God, how I miss just that. And you're right about how some people have WAYYYY better taste than others. I saw something on wine tasting some time ago and of a couple of thousand DNA combos available for taste, we only use about 280- 300 of them so no two people are alike and some are just plain superior due to the lottery nature of it all. It's what you're born with. All the best, Nonoise |
I think someone respectable has to take Genes place and take Ted up on the offer , question is who Oh who would that Guy be . We can put a Medium shirt on him or her and even call him Eugene , Im pretty sure Jamie and Adam Savage aren't doing anything and I think Adam is even an audiophile . Who would be the best person to take the challenge in Genes place ? And if Ted Turns that down you know he's a True scumbag because Im pretty sure he knew Gene would not take him up on that , he's getting exactly what he wanted out of this cause I didn't know his name last week. It cant be MillerCarbon either He buys Ted Dennys Farts , they were extracted from his butt with a Tesla Coil right into his tires , he gets a better ride in his new Model X, cause everything matters Chuck. Seriously can we all agree on who that would be ?? If it was done right it would be very informative |
To continue with wine as an analogy... Pairing is critical. Great pairing will elevate a modest wine. Terrible pairing can make a great wine undrinkable. Much like synergy in a system, be that components or tweaks. I had friends who I trusted when they would suggest a wine. And, they are very much capable of describing what it is about this wine they like. So, I knew if I picked up a product they suggested, it would be something I would enjoy depending on what it was being paired with. Now, if someone I don't know goes off on a product - for positive or negative reasons - that I don't know, then I really know nothing about that product. At this point, it's up to me to do my research and see if it's something I want to try. But I am not going to jump to conclusions about a product I have no direct personal experience with. If I am unable to hear the difference of changing something out, or trying something new, then it most likely is something I do not need and I should consider looking elsewhere to "improve" on my music listening experience. Having said that, no tweak is an island... |
Its not about being on one side or the other. A case in which a person builds a business and then another "expert" attacks the very foundation of this business. One created and built and the other sits back and criticizes without merit. I can tell you which of the two is more deserving of respect. I should add I am no fan of Ted and I think many of his claims dubious and most of his gear overpriced. |
Gene of "Audioholics" allegedly made a wrongful copyright claim that got this shut down on YouTube. You can see it here: https://vimeo.com/536865025?fbclid=IwAR1SBxhMwyC65vadjxSRyVg_a5XlBT4XrXJqJIGzBdjGgb3TlZ9GccpAB9Y |
https://vimeo.com/537019620?fbclid=IwAR3MQwNMN0Q8zLj9tFma2G4MhmzNV0Be8ac0yljG88luSyc6HDmPGQdIB6o This continues. Ted can turn many people off, but he is making a good point on what bashing the US based companies means for the jobs of those people working in them. Check out the last part. Well said |
https://vimeo.com/537019620?fbclid=IwAR3MQwNMN0Q8zLj9tFma2G4MhmzNV0Be8ac0yljG88luSyc6HDmPGQdIB6o Amen, Ted! Surprised they let us post that. Awful lot of guys around here no different at all from Gene. They run around chanting snake oil at anything they don't understand, oblivious to the insult this is to the hobby, the industry, and all us serious audiophiles. "Ted can turn many people off" seems to me to be less to do with Ted, than "many people" just can't stand to see someone be really successful, smart, and talented. My bet is not a one of them can come up with so much as one reason Ted turns them off, other than the ones I just said, he is a whole lot smarter and doing a whole lot better than you. Well, guess what? That is the way it is supposed to be! This is the world working out just the way it should! Ted is successful, Gene is broke and pathetic. Gene should put up, or shut up. Goes for a lot more than Gene. |
Some people are careful with the money they earn simply because they do not become bold parasiting on other people’s money. Some do not mind paying extra for repackaged fuses. Who really cares? Nobody will take fuses with them after all is said and done. No matter how much or how little they paid for them. |
perkri OPYou must be blind!!!!!!!! He’s been invited here to a open forum many times to backup what the fusers, hft’ers, uef’ers say about his snake oil, and not once has he backed them with his print here. |
I would like to see Gene take Synergistic Research up on the offer. That would be fun and interesting. Given Ted’s confidence that his products can be shown to work by objective measurements, I’m surprised that...as far as I know!...Synergistic Research has not provided any such demonstration.You’d think that would be a selling point if such demonstration were available, given the failure of competitors to provide such evidence beyond competing sales patter. I don’t see any evidence on the SR web site of objective verification through measurements (much less listening tests controlling for bias), or on an internet search. If I’ve missed it on the SR website, or anywhere else on the internet, someone please point me towards it. The only thing I’ve found about objective measurements from Synergistic Research is this old Stereophile Forum thread: https://www.stereophile.com/content/proof-performance-synergistic-art-1 In that thread Ted apparently believed he had presented measured proof of a difference when using one of his products. There was lots of pushback by the technical types wanting to rule out error. In the end, Ted admitted there was indeed a problem with the files that rendered the data files "corrupted" and "inaccurate." Which was good of him to admit! He then said he’d move forward in trying to establish this objective evidence employing an "objective third party with experience in the field of digital room correction for publication later this year." I can’t find anything suggesting the objective evidence was ever presented after that stereophile thread. Again...I’d love to be pointed towards that evidence if it was presented, though I suspect we’d know about it if that happened. So, it looks like this was tried before without success that I’m aware of. Frankly, though I’m skeptical about such things, I’d like to see Synergistic Research’s claims verified by objective measurements!First of all, it would provide solid evidence for customers of the product’s claims. Second, it would be very intriguing technically, and possibly establish novel ways of improving hi-fi system performance that many hadn’t considered before, that actually have objective evidence, further widening the audience for such tweaks. It’s a bummer that bad blood seems to be keeping this from happening. |
Ted Denney's second challenge to Gene >>> https://vimeo.com/537019620?fbclid=IwAR3sBkEtxNwqwEjs5vU2SV1rJFFyj5w9_SRUUqbT7q4lO44g3DRUKD3Sp4Q |
He’s been invited here to a open forum many times to backup what the fusers, hft’ers, uef’ers say about his snake oil, and not once has he backed them with his print here.Point out where someone, even you, have contacted Ted Denny to come to A'gon to debate you. Screaming from you pulpit here doesn't count. All the best, Nonoise |
I would like to see Gene take Synergistic Research up on the offer. That would be fun and interesting. Will never happen, Denney wouldn't do it in an open forum. And now he's taken his used-car/real-estate salesman tutorial Boob-tube video down. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKLuLfj2iC4 |
Huh, no wonder that this Ted annoys people so much. Not that the other one is especially likeable. This Ted sneaked in the comments of some other people that Gene clearly did not agree with. Built the case without there being a case. Once he started with the ending and "employees, America" and what not, he held on to the straw of "I am a good guy". Which he may be, for all I know. Still, it must take a special person to idolize him. Slick salesman. Bernie. The other guy, as slick with different image. |
That's a rather naive assessment. You could say "If the claims of the homeopaths weren't true, you wouldn't expect them to have lasted this long..." Or "If astrology didn't work, it wouldn't have lasted this long..." Beliefs based on subjectivity, imagination and misconstrual of evidence can last a loooong time. Indefinitely, it seems. That doesn't entail SR is snake oil; only that your point isn't terribly strong. |
Well, why would he come here? Because this is where their products were being shilled the most on any open forum. Then admin started to realize it after the so called "naysayers" called the "snake oilers" to task, obvious then was being used as a free advertising platform, and has now kept all "snake oil" on a tight leash. And good on them for doing it, because it was getting out of control. And making a mockery of this web site. You would never see that amount of "snake oil" getting away with it on a site where the "big boys" are like Nelson Pass, John Curl etc etc etc Actually there's a great thought! Get your messiah from SR to come onto DiyAudio forum and and preach his fuses,hft's, uef's wares there to the "big boys" and see how long he lasts. One nanosecond would be my guess. |
George creates his own reality, as shown above. Being an incredibly abusive bully, his flagging of posts he doesn’t like has gotten many valid comments deleted, and he mistakenly celebrates this as having Admin on his side. He’s done the same on other threads which have nothing to do with SR or any kind of tweak. It’s how he operates. One can disagree on an amp design and if he feels threatened, he has a post deleted. I’ve read where members have complained of this but to no avail. If Admin were really against SR and their products, they’d speak out about it like they’ve done with political debates that’ve gotten out of hand. I can’t recall anytime that Admin has injected their beliefs on a product into any discussion. If George knows of any, he should point it out. George just wants us to believe that Admin is as bad an actor as he is. All the best, Nonoise |
@prof Hahaha. Thats funny. You forgot how the election in the US was rigged and JC is the son of god The thing is, the people who are constantly taking a dump on SR, have never heard their products. The internet is a fools paradise. Hence there are things like QAnon, flat earthers, Covid deniers etc... Loads of pseudo intellectuals who think they are making a relevant point by comparing apples and oranges. I have yet to read a single post from anyone who has actually bought SR's products and then proceeded to lambaste them for having been sold a pile of crap. |
but, have you tried any of their products? No. Neither have I tried flat earth belief, or homeopathy. Or new age crystal healing. Or little brass bowls placed on my walls. I will await some reliable objective evidence that raises a product out of the noise of marketing claims, to suggest they are worth my time and effort and money. |
Even if somebody like Gene "proves" the SR stuff makes no measurable difference, cannot be selected in blind listening tests, and costs a fraction of the selling price to build, how does that "prove" it is snake oil - as long as the purchasers are happy with their purchases. I don't care whether Ted Denny drives a Ferrari, I didn't help pay for it. |
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@prof Heres the thing, the products are real, they actually exist. You can hold them, touch them and listen to them. If they don’t work, you can return them. This isn’t about me being for or against one company, tweak, approach or what someone appreciates in a system as far as how it sounds. I have a problem with blind, closed minded ignorance. Suspect I’m going to hear something along the lines of “If someone told me that if I put feathers in my pockets, i could fly, I wouldn’t be running to try and jump off a building either. Not unless they could show me measurements...” Looking forward to the next ridiculous analogy... |
mitch2, That seems like saying "If you bought a stone you were told was a real diamond, and a jeweler examining shows you it's only cheap Cubic zirconia, how does that 'prove' it's a fake diamond?" Er...that's pretty much what it means to be a fake, a scam, snake oil: a false claim. Per Wikipedia: "Snake oil is a euphemism for deceptive marketing, health care fraud, or a scam." The term "snake oil," has been used in high end audio to describe products that make false/deceptive claims. It's especially been attached to the tweakier side, and in particular cables, as I'd think you know. In other words, the idea that many cable/tweak companies make deceptive claims about the performance of their product, using misleading marketing claims and technobabble. IF Gene proved a product's extravagant performance claims false - showing they produce neither objectively verifiable difference nor subjectively (controlled tests), that would be essentially the definition of "snake oil" being exposed. Which is not to say SR products have been so determined. But it just seems very strange to suggest that if a customer is "happy" then a product isn't snake oil or there is no scam involved. Do you think if you someone sold you a fake diamond, as long as you happily believe the false claim that it's real then there was no scam involved? Surely you don't really think this way, so why would you use that logic for an audio product sold on false claims? |
perkri
Homeopathic pills are real, they actually exist. You can hold them, touch them and swallow them. Astrologers are real. You can meet them, touch them (if they let you!), talk to them. They'll explain to you how the stars guide your fortunes. The question is: are the CLAIMS made about those phenomena real? There is no objective evidence for those claims (and plenty against them), yet countless people think they work. Yet you reasoned that a product that doesn't do what it claims wouldn't maintain business. Are you able to see the point yet, as to why the basic logic of your inference was somewhat naive? |
@prof If you were provided with a full spec sheet of any/all products, would you be able to translate those specs into something meaningful? Something you could interpret and explain to someone else that “these should sound like this because of that..” Every detail and tech tidbit outlined: inductance, capacitance, resistance, magnetic fields generated/isolated, shielding from EMI, noise filtration, a 1khz sine wave in, same wave measured at the other end. And measured at multiple lengths to show what, if any decay or distortion of the signal occurs. How well is that signal protected by shielding so nothing effects the signal? somehow, I think not. |
If you were provided with a full spec sheet of any/all products, would you be able to translate those specs into something meaningful? Something you could interpret and explain to someone else that “these should sound like this because of that..” If a product is claimed to have altered an audio signal to an audible degree, there should be measurable differences in the audio signal with and without the product in use. It makes sense then to ask a claimant to show measurable differences in an audio signal, for frequency response, distortion, whatever, to a degree that suggests it’s audibility. It would be even better if it was established as audible under blinded conditions.
Only because you don’t seem to understand the point. If it sounds better, then it works. Which is like saying "If I took a homeopathic pill and felt better, it works!" Or: If a psychic did a reading on me and I left believing she had some hits, then she was using real psychic powers!" Do you understand the role of controlling for variables? That you felt better after a homeopathic pill does not automatically entail the pill caused it. You may have gotten better anyway without the pill, or your belief in homeopathy may have led you to happily believe you are cured when you are not (very common in homeopathy, not to mention in faith healing as well). And it does not establish that homeopathy works on the principles it says it works. Same with psychic powers. The fact you THINK it "worked" may be due to your own naivety about how psychics use standard "cold reading" techniques. And in how you managed to ignore the "misses" in their guesses. It’s standard fair yet people believe in the psychic power all the time. In other words: BELIEVING something works, THINKING it "happened" doesn’t necessarily mean it works or happened. Our minds are very good at imagining things. Some people think they have been visited and probed by aliens. You don’t think you could imagine a little less upper midrange glare in your system with a new cable? But I realize none of this will be hitting home if you are one who believes in the primacy and Ultimate Reliability of your subjective impressions, and nothing can refute them.
I know the feeling. Are you open minded to measurements being used to determine if a product "works" or not? Even if you think you hear it working? |
Are you open minded to measurements being used to determine if a product "works" or not? Even if you think you hear it working?Your logic is so simplistic.... In audio like in acoustic for example, the point about measures of different parameters is ALWAYS their possible CORRELATION with human perception...It is a complex dialogue between them, a constant round trip between the 2.... Using measures in a direct and gross way to discredit human perception is not science it is crusader skeptic ideology....Pseudo science... You are like the astrologer charlatan that claim that the planet decide for the people....For you some set of measures replace completely human free perceptive experience and decide his fate once and for all... You are like the astrologer you crusade against my friend.... Like all fanatics of opposite side ressemble each other.... You agenda is childish and you treat all people here like gullible childs...Your pseudo is well choosen "prof".... You cannot ALWAYS use measurement to prove in a so direct manner that a product work or not...For some product measures are crux of the matter, for example in electronic design... But equating measurable parameters in audio with good sound experience is not ALWAYS possible... It is only common sense...All designer use also their ears....This is called a CORRELATION between the ears and the designed artefact... If you are a scientist i am elf.... You are a techno fad closed mind.... By the way i never bought "tweaks" nor costly cables and i have no horses in this almost useless thread contest....I never advise people to buy anything only to be creative.... The war between "subjectivist" and "objectivist" in audio has his basis on a complete misunderstanding and misuse of science.... The reason is very simple: audio science is founded on a continuous experimental CORRELATION between some choosen objective parameters and human perception, and NOT on the replacement of human perception by some physical parameters once and for all.... |
"Snake oil"If so in your own mind believe it and leave it at that, don’t try to convince others of your delusional deductions with no commonsense or technical merit, as it’s taken in sometimes by the gullible and ends up costing them, because they can’t get what you imagined You are a techno fad closed mindReally! you need to get a life, every piece of gear you have is designed by a so called "techno fads", using measurements all the laws of electronics and testing procedures.. I have a problem with narrow minded, closed minded ignorance.Because that’s what you are. |