Suggestions for a streamer only (I have a great DAC)

Anyone have experience with the Lumin U2 in comparison to others?

Sorry to rejuvenate an old thread, but what do you go for in the end? I'm thinking of dCS Lina now - both streamer and DAC in one go. 

There are three streamers that have not been mentioned in this discussion yet.  The first streamer is called the Magna Hifi  Mano ULTRA that is made in Holland and is compatible with SPDIF and I2S inputs.  You do not have to deal with Roon!  It retails at about $1200.  I have a unit available that is untouched by human hands!  The second streamer is the Euphony PTS that can run on the Euphony Stylus Operating system or on Roon.  It is run connected to the ethernet cable and sells for $999 at power-holdings-inc.com/Euphony-PTS

The third Streamer is called the A Cappella III from Musica Pristina.  Prices start at $3999.  Thirty- day Trial is offered.  I2S and SPDIF outputs available.  Roon Ready.  Unit is made in the USA.

I wanted to buy an Innuos Zenith, but given it only works with USB DAC's, I had to look elsewhere.  If they ever add SPDIF or AES/EBU compatibility, I will seriously reconsider.

dCS Network Bridge! I had NWB + Paganini DAC, a great combination. Replaced them with a Bartok. Quite similar in sound, actually. Maybe the NWB + Paganini had a little more air and refinement on the top end and Bartok a little more density and anchored sound. In the end it was more about the single box package and nicer looks rather than SQ upgrade. NWB comes up every month or two on the used market at < $4k. You can also potentially get rid of the Paganini clock as the NWB can also serve as word clock for the Paganini DAC, just have to see if the dedicated clock provides enough improvement, if any, to justify it.

Tried Lumin X1, both as streamer/DAC and just streamer into the Paganini, but found the NWB to be more natural sounding and dynamic.

I have a Stack Audio Link II on order and should arrive next week. I bought it as an upgrade to my Bluesound Node 2i. I'm a little apprehensive about the change in software- not quite sure how something like Bubble upnp will compare to the nice Bluesound functionality. We shall see and I shall report.

I have had some recent experience with some of the streamers mentioned. In my office system which I listen to more than the main one now I have a metrum acoustics adagio NOS DAC / preamp and stream into it from either a metrum ambre - which sounds very good - or direct from an innuos mini mk3 which sounds quite considerably better. You have to enable squeezebox lite in roon to do this. The only issue is that when its streaming from tidal (as oppose to from its hard drive) you get occasional drop outs which to be fair roon warns you about with squeezebox. 

In my main system I have a Lumin A1 which i have had for years bypassing its own DAC streaming into a border patrol DAC. This sounds v fine too but again when I have swapped in the innuos it sounds richer, cleaner, more engaging.

It was actually Gary Dews at Border Patrol who recommended streaming direct from the Innuos to the BP DAC as apparently he does that when he demos the DAC at shows. Something to do with its linear power supply. So if I had to keep one of the three streamers Id keep the innuos.

My question would be - I love the Aurender displays but they arent roon compatible. Anyone know a streamer with such a high quality display which does roon? Auralic I guess...

Cheers

duckworp

Thank you for your excellent article.  I have been considering all 3 of the streamers you mentioned and your comparisons and comments are very helpful.

All you really need is a Grace digital link $179. Yea, not a name recognized here, although I have brought it up many times, especially to those that think they need to spend thousands. Yea, may not do MQA or whatever it's called, and yea it may not provide the utmost In resolution, although it is capable of hi-res, but for your money it is a great sounding capable streamer. It never has an issue with connecting to wifi, it has a screen unlike many, and it has many built in apps. It also has a digital coax out to connect to an external dac. Don't knock it till you try it. Buy it on Amazon, then if you think it's junk, you can return it. I've had mine for over   a year....and I still have money in my pocket. 

The innuos statement streamer I believe is very good, depending on your budget the Taiko SGM extreme is as good as it gets https://taikoaudio.com/taiko-2020/sgm-extreme-music-server/

I have also read good things about the Grimm audio streamer MU1.

I auditioned the AURALiC streamers against my home made computer streamer and they did not impress. This lead me to the audiophile style forum which is a wealth of info on both commercial and DIY streamers. I ended up building a state of the art 2 box streamer that has lead me to sell my £50k+ analogue set up.

It would be very worth while looking at the A style forum - the innuos streamers are very well thought of there - also lots of reviews of other brands.

You could try the excellent options from Antipodes Audio in New Zealand. Great sound and upgradeable.

If you are after just a streamer then look into what Auralic has to offer. I believe the Aries G2.1 is one of their top tier offerings. If you were interested in possibly abandoning your DAC then I suggest looking into on of the Bricasti units.

ifi zen streamer. 

At your local dSC dealer you should be able to trade your Paganini and clock for a new Bartok.  The Bartok has an updated dCS ring DAC and streamer.  You can use their Mosaic streaming program to access Tidal/Qobuz or subscribe to Roon.  Top quality sound and economical.  Or, spend some additional money and get a Rossini which also has streaming capability.  Both units will continue to receive dCS software updates which have stopped for the older Paganini.

Bel Canto e.Stream, $1200 used.

I have the same need as you.  I found nothing that was streamer only at an affordable price - - similar to your budget.  I looked at all "the usuals," Aurender, Lumin, Innuous, and so on.  Finally, I looked at Antipodes - but a mid-range model with power supply was $7K. 

While I made inquiries at Antipodes, I also began taking a close look at LDMS, who makes streamers only of very high quality focused use, even custom order per user needs/specifications.  And they are very experienced with Roon.  The Pico model is under $3,000.  The next up their line is $6,700 (but what is included is amazing).  It has been said that of this unit even as streamer only is preferred over other streamers/severs in the $15K to $20K, as remarked by audiophiles who moved on from some of the brands I listed above.  

I was in the same place. I love my DAC  - Aesthetix Romulus Eclipse with Telefunken & Amperex.  But my McIntosh MB100 was no good in many different ways. It had to go.

So - the Lumin U1 was my choice and the reliability, sound and interface have been a significant upgrade. I've received solid support from the manufacturer when I had questions, and there have been 2 or 3 firmware upgrades  Good overall experience.

I bought a Bluesound node 2i and never looked back. The software, flexibility,   steaming options, ease of use cannot be beat. It has been reliable with no problems. I run the digital output to a Shitt Bifrost and it sounds great. I run it to a Primaluna integrated.  It sounds wonderful. The great DAC you have will complement the sound.

Aurender N replaced by N20, a iittle more expensive than N10 , But half the cost of W20SE !! Take a lppk, a sweet spot in the line !!

@naperaudio

If an Innuos Zenith Mk3 ends up as a contender, it just so happens that I placed an ad for one on US Audio Mart yesterday evening. The price falls within your stated budget: https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649831352-innuos-zenith-mk3-music-server-2tb-storage

It will interesting to see what the PS Audio streamer quality will be. I believe they will release it 2020.

i agree that the ifi zen stream is really a terrific streamer for very little money, esp with an lps powering it - it has a good deal of noise filtering built into both input and output sides of it, which is why it sounds very pure

some wifi connectivity issues have been reported but i suspect software updates have solved this -- i use it with ethernet feed and roon, so have avoided some of the early pitfalls

Hi Naperaudio,

My suggestion would be to get an ifi Zen Stream (only $300 or so), and an upgraded power supply. I recently upgraded from a Bluesound Node 2i to the Zen stream, paired with a linear power supply from McRU (around $350). Beats the pants off of what I had before, and costs far less than most streamers (and probably sounds just as good, though I haven’t heard others like Auralic. In any case, I’m using the Zen Stream to stream from Tidal using Tidal connect and it works and sounds great! 

Rasberry pis are for nerds :)

Josh

Unbelievable!  What is it with audiophiles that they feel they  have to spend crazy amounts of money on such simple things?  

Any decent laptop PC can do all the streaming you want.  Pick one up for $300 off of Craigslist and then spend the rest of you budget on...   Well you don't need to spend it.

I've been running low cost laptop PCs running Ubuntu Linux feeding a USB line into a Peachtree DAC for years now.   Sounds great.  I can stream from an Internet service, or from my sizable collection of ripped CDs.   I also do location recording, so I use it to play back the recordings I make.

You can build a perfectly good streamer from a Raspberry Pi for under $100. It will send bit perfect data to your DAC. Any decent DAC is immune from jitter on the data stream. Anyone who thinks the streamer makes a sound quality difference ought to do some real testing. They are probably imagining  things.

The miniDSP SHD Studio is a Streaming High Definition digital audio processor that combines:

• Dirac Live®, full version with perpetual license
• Roon Ready certified
• Powerful DSP processor and ultra flexible tuning capability
• Volumio high-performance network streaming

The SHD Studio’s powerful but user-friendly DSP audio tuning software provides 10-band parametric EQ per channel, crossovers up to 48dB/octave, compressor / limiter and a 2 x 4 matrix mixer. The system allows for powerful audio system tuning in applications ranging from integrating a single subwoofer to a two-way active speaker.

Volumio network streaming provides access to music files from many sources including USB drives, NAS (network area storage devices), Roon, TIDAL, Qobuz Spotify, JRiver, internet radio and more.

Three digital inputs and USB Audio enable the SHD Studio to fit into any modern audio system, while processed outputs are available as unbalanced and balanced digital.

Dirac Live combines frequency response correction as well as impulse response correction. SHD Studio includes a full perpetual license and updates of Dirac Live. 

Deer Creek Audio is an authorized miniDSP dealer.  Feel free to contact us for more information on the SHD Studio.

@loxo, I also use a Roon Nucleus with an aftermarket LPS(linear power supply), except mine is an Sbooster, which I’ve found to work quite nicely in my system. I’m often amazed at the number of folks who not only recommend to others music servers that cost $10,000 and more, but have also bought one themselves when all they’re doing is using Roon to run Tidal and Qobuz. 

Very happy with my Lumin U1 right now. Using Qobuz as my streaming source.  

I would strongly endorse Aurender either W20 which can be found on the used market for around 10,000 or their newer SE version which I have heard and read is even more superb. This streamer will also accept an external word clock that you can then match to your DAC

Bryston BDP v3 is wonderful and way underrated. I have tried some of the others mentioned here but their software was usually slow but almost always buggy. The Bryston solution is not.

Roon Nucleus with a Farad super 3 PSU! Forget about the rest!

The obvious solution is an Auralic Aries G2.1 streamer.

Auralic put extended effort into their wifi implementation to make it quieter and more consistent than ethernet. You can use ethernet but the wifi is great and in fact better. It has a 1gb cache into which it streams all inputs and dejitters and reclocks incoming. Additionally, if you are Tidal HiFi oriented, Auralic developed their own proprietary software to process MQA without using the MQA license, and it sounds better. Also the free Auralic Lightning DS library playback app has fewer bugs and better sound than Roon does today.

In my experience, the Auralic Aries G2.1 makes any DAC you connect to it sound better, regardless of price. I use it to feed a Bricasti M21 Platinum.

Phil

I have an purchased an Optical Rendu from Small Green Computer. This is an excellent device a major upgrade for any high end DAC.  It retimes the signal and improves Red Book and extend rate music. The music sounds as good as playing the CD or better.

Jim 

At the XFi Premium show in Holland 2019 I visited the room that Aurender and dCS were sharing. The room was busy but eventually got a chance to talk to the dCS rep.  We were discussing the Network Bridge when the Aurender rep. joined us and to my surprise agreed that the dCS unit was better!

Look here:

Hey Guys,

Thanks so much for all the great advice and suggestions.  I have a wonderful foundation for my search.

I will take the next few weeks to try and acquire many of the recommended streamers (and look into Roon) to make a decision.

I will keep you apprised of my search,

Dave (naperaudio) 

op

here ya go

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649830383-dcs-network-bridge-black/

+3 for Innuos.Zenith MkIII.

And use Roon with Qobuz, not Tidal or you’ll be wasting your money.

@naperaudio, if you value plug and play ease of use when listening to music, and you intend to use Roon, then I highly recommend that you look at getting a Roon Nucleus. I have one running off of a 19v Sbooster linear power supply that’s plugged into an AudioQuest Niagara power conditioner. Clean power being the key to getting the best out of any piece of audio gear, no matter how costly that bit of kit might be. I just turn on my amplifier, put on my headphones, pick up my iPad, and start listening to millions of tracks of music within a matter of seconds. 

Bryston BDP 3.14

@headphonedreams

+1 for the Metronome. I had that home for a weekend and tested it against the dCS. It is as well built as the dCS and very musical sounding. The dCS digs out more details do, I find. I also prefer Mosaic before M-connect (the generic software that Metronome use and many others).

Theoretica Applied Physics offer a few different configurations. The "Adio" for instance "doubles" as a streamer. However, as I use it, a PC or a MAC is needed in the network as a Roon core. It comes with a dedicated Mac 10.5inch Ipad from where music is operated via the Roon interface. It can however be configured to be a Roon core and end-point player and Tidal/Qobuz streamer, but I prefer to handle Roon outside of it.

In my case I was looking for a strong streamer solution foremost, but found the machine add additional features (Cross talk eliminated 3D sound) I today can not live without. As it comes with a good DAC and a pre-amp I sold most of my other gear to justify the purchase. And now I keep the signal path as simple as possible.

Power amplifier + Bacch + Speakers.  

Just to play devil’s advocate here:

The Paganini is an older discontinued product. I have no idea what the used resale value is like? But it would be interesting to figure out the dollar value and sound quality against a new DCS Bartok for example? The Bartok would be a clean one box solution for streaming and DAC duties. 

+ 2 for Innuos Zenith Mark III. Just got it recently & really like it. Simple, solid, app works great, burns CD’s fast & sounds excellent. 

I think for the OP the intersection of synergy with current DAC, simplicity, flexibility and future upgrade paths lies with the upper tier options from Innuos. 
 

Having the new Innuos streaming software, easy CD ripping, album management, server integration and sound quality is pretty solid. You can add Roon down the road if desired? I tried Roon but found it did not solve any problem I had. The cool magazine browser like functionality is fun though. I decided to stay with my Linn Akurate system. 

As you can tell from the recommendations on this thread, there are many good streamer options out there. I have been extremely happy with the Innuos Zen Mk3 streamer/server (and the more expensive Zenith is reported to be just a little bit better if you want to invest a little more money). 

Before you decide on a streamer, though, I would suggest that you decide whether you plan to use Roon or not. Most Roon users rave about it as a music file management tool, but quite a few users complain that its sound quality doesn't quite match the sound obtainable with a streamer using its own software, such as Innuos, Aurender, Auralic, etc. I do not use Roon and have found the current Innuos Sense software to be excellent as well as less complicated and less expensive than a Roon set-up would be.

Before I bought my Innuos Zen, I wasn't sure I wanted or needed a built-in server integrated with a streamer (as the Zen provides). I planned to just stream from Qobuz and use a CD player for CDs. However, the Innuos has turned out to be perfect for those of us who don't have the interest or skills to mess with complicated computer interfaces. CD ripping to a WAV or FLAC file on the Innuos is so quick and easy (and great sounding) that I rarely play CDs from a player anymore. I haven't bothered to rip all my CDs to the Innuos, but whenever I find a CD I want to play, I just rip it to the Innuos and play it back from there. Playing a WAV file on the Innuos sounds better than my CD player does, and I can easily put together playlists that combine tracks from Qobuz with tracks from WAV files.

You have a lot of good streamer options, but I would urge you to make a decision about whether to use Roon or some other proprietary software before you buy any piece of streaming gear. You don't want to get locked into using software that is difficult to use or may compromise sound quality unless it has other features you value more.       

If I were shopping in that league I would look hard at the Grimm audio MU1 . Hans Beekhuysen, a reviewer who I respect, is swapping out his Aurelic G2 for the Grimm  product. John Atkinson at stereophile  also gave it a definite thumbs up. It replaces both the Auralic  G2 and the Chord Mscaler and would seem to be perfectly suited for the top of the line dac  which you own. There is a concentration of audio excellence in Holland which seems to stem from the mid 1980s when the Phillips corporation developed the CD at a large plant there. Grimm audio boasts a lot of strong connections with very intelligent and innovative people like Bruno Putzeys, The noted designer of leading clase de amplification.

The Bryston BDP-3 is also worth a look.    Software interface is a bit spartan but it works and the product support is good and their SQ and right up there with the best.

If you do consider Roon , which gets you a super nice interface on your iPAD, I would also look at Small Green Computer (SGC) as previously suggested.   It just takes some knowledge and patience to get it all dial in but you wont be dissappointed. 

When I was in your position looking for a streamer to change up from using my laptop, the biggest thing aside from sound quality was the user interface. As I had to have it connected over wifi that reduced the list of components I could look at. I finally settled on Auralic and I use their Lightning DS app. I have no idea why some people don’t like it as it’s incredibly intuitive and seamlessly integrates Qobuz, Tidal and Amazon Music. You can organise your music into playlists and access music on hard drive or NAS if so inclined although it doesn’t sound like you are.

I have never had a problem with the software and you don’t need a computer to set the streamer and software up, only an iPad which may be a deal breaker for you. I say all this just to give my positive experience with Lightning DS as an option.

My advice then is to work out whether you need wifi or can it be hard wired, if hard wired you have more options. Once you know that I would strongly recommend choosing a product that has an excellent app. I know everyone seems to love roon, but there are great apps now that do the same job and reduce the expense of paying for roon. Innuos has their own app and I watched their hour presentation on it, it seems superb with excellent functionality and a great intuitive user interface. By all accounts people also love the lumin app, aurender app and the bluOS app, so there are plenty of choices.

Narrow those questions down and you’ll have a group of options that you can read reviews on to narrow down to 1 or 2 and then it’s demo time.

Métronome manufacture some beautifully built electronics 

Forgot to say that Métronome basically split into two brands. They have Kalista also and the Kalista Dreamplay Stream is a good streamer but much more expensive.

I've heard the Bacch and it was impressive (I did not know it could work as a streamer, they showed it as a dac) but especially with their own 3D processing. You need to decide if that is something you want. As you already have a good dac it seems to be a waste of money otherwise.

A streamer I did not see mentioned yet is Métronome. For example their Métronome DSS.

My main worry with streamers is that they are basically computers and uses a lot of software. This may have to be updated in the future to work with later things. This means a stable company or brand is probably especially important for streamers. Or just go with a computer and install Roon Rock.