Suggestions for a streamer only (I have a great DAC)

Look into Small Green Computer

I've had great results with their optical network and

streaming products

Have replaced playing or buying CDs with content from

Tidal and Qobuz uzing Roon as the control point

Small Green Computer is dedicated to pushing the

technological envelope to bring customers the

highest quality digital audio possible.

I bought a Lumin U-1 mini for my Lampizator Pacific until I received my Lucas Audio Media Server.  The U-1 mini is an inexpensive solution to your requirements and does Tidal and Qobuz.  However, if you want to amplify your SQ, getting a dedicated music server is a way to go.  I love my LDMS.

@naperaudio 

I would really consider the dCS Network bridge. It is built like a tank, a no nonsense product, as ambitious as the rest of the dCS line. 

The reason it is dis-continued is dCS could not find economics in it, I was told. It is just to expensive to produce, and dCS struggles to have a product like that as an entry product (although that was the idea).

Now Bartok seem to be the entry level product and it comes with a DAC, but I was told the streaming tech in the Bartok is the same as the NB.

The reason there are not many around is probably people stick on to it. 

If you like the dCS sound (I believe it to be very British analytical, extremely detailed, with good separation) you should not be disappointed. 

I audited a black one, with stunning discrete looks. So maybe just wait for the right opportunity in the market :-). 

Now, the Bacch-SP Adio is a different animal as it addresses the long known issue of Cross-talk that most convectional stereo system battles with to a degree. For me it works well and I (my ears) benefit 100% of Cross-talk elimination. 

The Bacch make the stage significant deeper and wider, and it manages to in a very obvious way increase separation between instruments and vocals in the music. It also brings the sound stage from in between the speakers closer to your listening position and kind of wraps the music around you, and by that creates somewhat of a musical "halo effect".

An extra ordinary experience and to me very pleasant. This effect is what Theoetica Applied Physics refer to as true 3D. But basically the only thing it has done is to eliminate the Cross talk issue.  

Now the results varies with the musical material (dependent on skill and ambition in the recording studio) as such that you play through the Bacch. It can´t make bad recordings fantastic, but so far I have found it improves all recordings, some more then others. Pink Floyds "Time" and "Money" are good examples where it really excels. 

So my answer must be yes. The Bacch does not make a small change, it makes a significant change, easily auditable through a simple A-B test. Because of course it is fully possible to listen without the Cross Talk Elimination algorithms working their magic on the signal. 

In such case you will only benefit from the Bacch Adio´s super fast streaming capacity (Roon Core based computer anchored), its DAC and its inbuilt anti-jitter word clock.

But it might not be for everyone. A friend of mine tried it in his system with the high end MBLs omni-directional speakers and felt his MBLs basically created this effect by them self so opted not to implement it. But he agrees it opens up any conventional direct streaming system he have heard it play in. As reference his system is ca 250,000 USD as it stands.  

My system is more humble. I run the ML ESL 11 paired with the Bryston 4B3 and there is a Torus power conditioner and a few cords from Shunyata, Luna and Wireworld as foundation. It brings this system to another level (my humble opinion) and it was worth investing a considerable amount into it.  

You will get a very limited perspective on streaming options these days if you rely solely on old school audio sources. One that may well cost you a premium. High quality streaming is everywhere these days. Take your pick. The features cost support and reliability all matter. Sound quality will follow. Streaming just isn’t that hard and everyone has conquered it,  many cost effectively. You just need the rest of your system starting at the DAC to cut it and even that is much easier these days with many good dacs to choose from. Not like the olden days of hifi anymore where you had to pay a premium for good sound.

OP, you now have a list. Go to The Absolute Sound, Stereophile and Hi-Fi+…. Read reviews.

I’ve been steaming more of late from Plexamp running on PC to my system DAC. See system pics.

pc is physically isolated from hifi and use a long usb wire to connect. Sounds very good.

Also been using Plex on Roku in my second two channel a/v setup. Impressive!

Been streaming mainly for years now.

flood gates officially open now... he he

bs node

lumin

auralic

innuos

aurender

pro ject streambox

ifi zen stream

grimm

cambridge cxn

sonore rendu

sotm sms200

metrum ambre

stack

lindemann

spin the wheel and pick one!

Check these out

1 Baetis

2. LUCAS audio

3. Wolf Audio

All 3 are in the price range matching your DAC

I recently purchased a Baetis

The level of customer service with all 3 was outstanding in each case you deal direct with designer/builder.

I was very happy with my Baetis /TotalDAC combo

@antigrunge2 I have not spent much time with any Innuos products and have not heard their server playing their software. Last I heard one was a statement running Roon. The only thing I know about their software is that it is supposed to sound great but was a bit unstable on release. I assume Innuos worked diligently to correct those issue as it is a big point of differentiation for them.

I have spent a lot of time with a Nucleus and Bricasti items. I agree that a Nucleus as a player and renderer is mediocre. It is also relatively modestly priced.  Strictly used as a server sending a signal to a separate player, it is far superior to using it as a single source connected via USB. I cannot answer if Nucleus/Bricasti combo is as good as Innuos as I have not tested it but Nucleus/Bricasti is much better than Nucleus alone. Nucleus alone is MUCH better than dedicated PC/Laptop/Mac Mini.

No one claims that Roon is best sounding software. Pretty universally Roon core with Squeeze as a front end is deemed one of the best sounding options. HQ Player is very, very good. I have heard the Innuos software is supposed to be better and Pink Faun’s native software is arguably the best of them all. There is a big difference between not being best sounding and sounding bad. IMO, Roon sound is very good and when one considers the UI, it is not shocking why it is so popular.

The OP is looking for a simple solution that will sound good and is easy to control from a tablet. I stand by my recommendation against those parameters. Innuos may be an excellent alternative.

Based on the OP’s desire for simplicity in how to stream, incorporating Roon or a stand alone streamer with its own app / software are key.  I’ve had a BS Node 2i, tried around 5-7 different DAC’s, streamed via a streamer, all in one boxes, used those as a streamer to an external DAC, Roon, streamed directly from my laptop to a DAC.

I didn’t realize prior how important the software / App is with a streamer.  OP - I to didn’t like the Lumin’s app originally, found it clumsy.  But in my system using the Lumin app sounded better to my ears than Roon.  So, over time and based on trying other apps, found out the Lumin app is pretty darn good relative the competition, especially when you match it up to the hardware.  Bluos App is the best I have run across but it’s hard to find higher end streamers that use it, the Node does.  I haven’t used but have read a ton and the Auralic Lightning App gets high remarks, continual updates and has been very inclusive in developing their software to allow the largest list of streaming services I have seen.

If you are looking for ease of use, build quality and best sound quality in your budget, Lumin or Auralic would be great places to look.  Lumin’s build quality / engineering / components are top notch, they are far bigger in the commercial space, they use that know how to build their streamers, DAC’s.  Trying a BS as a streamer from a vendor that offers a 30 day trial is a no brainer, even if you had to sell it the loss would be minimal.  There is a camp of Audiophiles that subscribe to the theory that the DAC and all the other components have a much bigger influence on the SQ.  If you could AB the Node and another streamer would be ideal, then you’d know for yourself in your own system.  If you liked the Node you’d save some money and be tied into the best software / app that likely will always be supported.  
 

In my search the most experienced, technical people I have talked to lean toward the streamer being the least important.  They all say you need a quality streamer but that you can get one for a small investment, anything spent beyond that is going to yield very incremental improvements and cost the cost for those to be noticeable is substantial.  I myself am still looking to upgrade my streamer potentially, I currently have a Lumin but it’s not a stand alone streamer.  So I’m not really taking their advice. 

There are some good thoughts here.  I’m generally in agreement with @ghdprentice in that a well optimized streaming setup will surprise you with how good it can be.  You might never want to spin a disc again if you put some effort into it up front.  The rest of your system seems to warrant this effort. Yes, there is a world of difference going upstream. Contrary to what some claim, going upstream in the quality of your streamer can yield substantial - and readily audible improvements.  

I will offer a few other things to consider:

1) There’s seems to be some consensus that Qobuz generally sounds better than Tidal.  To my ears, it sounds a lot better. The libraries are different, both are vast.  

2) Auralic’s lighting DS is more than fine.  I actually like it as an app better than Aurender’s conductor app (I had Aurender for several years and then moved to Auralic’s Aries G2 which I found Iiked better than Aurender’s N100 and N10. I haven’t heard the W20 SE which @ghdprentice has but understand it to be spectacular.

3) the Bluesound app is also fine but frustrating at times. I have a Node 2 in a kitchen system.  Candidly, Auralic Lightning DS and Aurender Conductor provide a much better experience and both are seamless with Qobuz and/or Tidal.

4) Roon provides the best user interface by far, but in my experience there is a sonic penalty to using it. Of course, it may be that they’ve somehow worked this out and others may disagree.  But it’s a fairly common observation if you do some reading. To me, Auralic via LDS sounds substantially better than the same stream via Roon.  Since digital music is data played back via software and hardware, this is not too surprising. In any case, for those looking to optimize streaming performance, the native apps might give you a better experience. 

5) Pay attention to your network hygiene.  It’s not that bits are lost or that jitter is introduced. Parasitic noise is, however, and you only really notice it when you hear it without.

Good luck and let us know what you decide.

@verdantaudio,

with all due respect: if you think Roon Nucleus is a good streamer, you owe it to yourself to listen to an InnuOS Zen or Zenith using the InnuOS Sense app in non-Roon mode. The SQ doesn‘t even compare!

For your budget and best sound I would get a Roon Nucleus and a Bricasti M5. The Roon Nucleus is a computer that runs one piece of software. Roon Core. Nothing else. It has a power button and a couple setting that anyone can walk you through when you setup the unit. This needs to be on your network, near your router.

The M5 needs an Ethernet connection. It does not need to be near the Nucleus and takes care of the player part of the process.  It gets your files ready to go to the DAC.

This will sound amazing. Be on budget. And can be purchased from a few retailers with 30 day return policies.

Since OP is streaming from TIDAL (and likely subscribed at the TIDAL Hifi Plus level), he'll want to look for a streamer that supports MQA to get the most out of TIDAL Masters, etc.. The Bluesound Node is one such device, and it's been a great addition to my Rega/Dynaudio system. Obviously, it's way below the OP's budget, but the results are consistently outstanding. Just an excellent value.

I'm going to be 'that' guy who tells you that you can WAY over pay for a pure streamer

If that's been your listening experience then I believe you but you represent a tiny minority. Reading on  this  and other forums on the topic of streamers the overwhelming number of  listeners who've heard/owned Blue Node say there's significant sound quality improvement to be gained from moving toward  better quality servers/streamers.

Blue Node seems an unusual match with the dCS DAC. I believe that the OP can likely  do noticeably better within his given budget. 

Charles 

I have tried a number of network bridges. I would recommend one of the following;

Pro-Ject Stream Box S2 Ultra. This is a tiny box with a wonderful network bridge inside. It retails at around $1000. It is designed by John Westlake, a great designer, and based on a Radpberry Pi and runs Volumio software to access Tidal very intuitively.

SOtM sms-200 ultra NEO. This is a great upgradeable small box solution. It is upgraded by adding the sps-500 power supply, the sCLK-ocx10 clock, and the tx-USB ultra USB ’cleaner’. So you could have 4 of the SOtM boxes with the full set up.

The Auralic Aries G1 or G2 is a traditionally sized Hi-Fi component with its own software to integrate with Tidal. I found the SQ was no better than the two above though

I have tried other options from a home built Pi to ones from Sonore and BluSound but none of these were as good as the 3 manufacturers above.

Sound quality wise between these they are all very close. I have the 4 box SOtM in one of my systems and the Pro-Ject in another. By adding the other boxes to the SOtM I got minor improvements on one of my systems, but no noticeable difference on two others, I guess it depends on the DAC, but the SOtM is not as intuitive to set up. Both models of the Auralic sounded no better than the Pro-Ject or the base one-box SOtM and at around 3 to 5 times the price.

Personally I’d go with the Pro-Ject. It sounded as good as the Auralic and is a tenth of the size and a quarter of the price. If you like the upgrade path I’d head for the SOrM and you can see if your DAC responds to the changes you make.

For ref I have tested these network bridges on my two high end DACs (dcs equivalent) and one mid range.

I'm going to be 'that' guy who tells you that you can WAY over pay for a pure streamer (no DAC). Streamers don't follow some audio myth like cables where people tell you to spend a certain % of your overall system cost on cables as if that directly improves your sound. It's a law of big diminishing returns with cables and streamers. You spent the right $$$ on your DAC but getting bits from a network stream transported to your DAC is not subject to massive qualitative differences.

I second the Bluesound Node (2021 version) recommendations as the best bang for the buck. I would suggest you do what I did and buy the Bluesound and also whatever high end streamer you think would be a big improvement on the BS. Then test them both with your system using a truly blind testing method to see if you can really hear a difference consistently. I have a nice system that is very resolving and I could not. So I sent the more expensive streamer back and kept the BS. I use a quality USB cable into my Holo Audio May KTE DAC and it is fantastic. If you actually want a qualitative improvement then feed your BS output into HQPlayer upscaling. But that is a project for a different time once you've made your decision. Good luck.

Antipodes Audio!!!!!

I heard Wolf with a T+A DAC today at the Florida Audio expo, sounded pretty good to me!

but at home I have NAD M50.2

Lightning DS is not great but functional for music genres except classical. Roon is better but still not great on listing classical albums. Only Idagio comes close but it is solely classical. On balance there are worse apps than Lightning DS and from my experience not that many better - most are about on par.

OP, 

Yes, today a top notch streamer is at or above the level of a high end CD player.  In fact my streamer performs at the level of my vinyl rig (also not shabby, see my UserID).

We are taking about full wide and deep soundstage. Instruments suspended I’d space, mid-range bloom, incredible detail with dead quiet background… low noice floor. But with a nearly infinite music library. But like all other pieces of high end audio, you want performance you have to pay. Alternatively you could go the N10 route. About half the price. But given the quality of your DAC you should mate it with something appropriate or streaming will just be a way to find music to then purchase a CD. When you could be experiencing as good or better sound all the time.

+1 for Innuos Zenith MK3. 

@naperaudio - " I have heard of people not liking the Auralic software music management (Lightning?). Do you like it?"

I have not used it for many years, because recent versions run only on iOS, and I use Android devices. I would buy an iPad for this if I needed to, but there is no need. I use Auralic’s Web interface for managing the Aries G1 and other software for playing music.

As to people not liking Lightning DS, that is unsurprising. Name any audio product here, and you will find some people who don’t like it. I also have heard from many people who think it’s superb. But the Aries G1 hardware is not tied to Auralic’s software exclusively.

Now I am using Roon to play music. It’s easy to use and interfaces with Tidal and Qobuz simply. There is a recurring small cost and also the cost of a computer to run it on, but it runs very well with the Aries G1 (which is "Roon Ready"). If you own dCS gear, the cost of Roon isn’t likely to bother you.

Other apps I’ve used to direct music to the Aries G1 are BubbleUPnP, which runs on Android, and Lumin’s software, which I think is available on both ioS and Android. Of course, if you are willing to use an iPad for this, you can try Lightning DS, too. All of those can play from Qobuz and Tidal, as well as from local files.

OP , did you mention a budget ?

For my part Taiko Audio SGM Extreme would be my weapon of choice , Unfortunatly quite expencive. Pink Faun and Lumin are also very good.

ghdprentice …. Good question. Perhaps  I haven’t heard a really good streamer? The Lumin T-1 that I listened to for a while just couldn’t match the sound (to my ears) of the Esoteric & clock on red book CD. I used the Lumin via Tidal (non MQA) and while it was good, I found the Esoteric better. 
 

Do you think your Roon set up enhances the sound or maybe something that my system lacks? 
 

Andy,

Truly appreciate the comments.  I looked up the Theoretica (hadn’t heard of it) really sounds interesting. Obviously, a significant investment …. was it a real game changer?
 

I have been looking for a dCS Bridge for a little while, without success. Maybe I need a little more patience 😊.

Thanks again

@naperaudio

Just out of curiosity, why are you not going to be using a streamer all the time? You got rid of your analog rig, you are left only a CD player? Right? If so, the Aurender would bring streaming to the same level or better to your system… the same for red book CD and better for the ubiquitous high rez files on Qobuz or to a lessor extent Tidal.

I have over 2,000 CDs… haven’t played them for over a year. No reason to when I can just stream. Anyway, this is where sate of the art streaming is today.

the best sounding solution is a 432EVO music server

this is a state of the art Roon core and endpoint

the sound quality is so good Andrew Quint of the Absolute Sound bought the review sample

positive feedbacks review conclusion:

The 432 EVO High End Music Server is a remarkable player, making good on its promise to deliver a warmer, more pleasant listening experience via its 432 Hz tuning. It definitely takes the edge off digital files and, if you’re jonesing for vinyl playback but don’t have the bucks or inclination to purchase a good one (or a decent cartridge and phono stage preamplifier, for that matter), this might be the way to go; you get the convenience of digital with a lion’s share of vinyl’s warmth.

The 432 EVO High End Music Server is a remarkable player, making good on its promise to deliver a warmer, more pleasant listening experience via its 432 Hz tuning. It definitely takes the edge off digital files and, if you’re jonesing for vinyl playback but don’t have the bucks or inclination to purchase a good one (or a decent cartridge and phono stage preamplifier, for that matter), this might be the way to go; you get the convenience of digital with a lion’s share of vinyl’s warmth.

Either way, the 432 EVO High End Music Server is a great value; teamed-up with the likes of the Schiit Audio Yggdrasil OG DAC, Pass Labs amplification, Straight Wire cabling, Usher Audio Mini Dancer 2 tower speakers, and a good acoustical space, it delivers a musical experience that entreats you to listen to just one more song, again and again! Moreover, it is fully upgradable to their $7500 432 EVO Aeon model. Bottom line, it gets my thumbs up.

Dave and Troy

Audio intellect NJ

US importer 432VO music servers

One other note …..

A friend mentioned that he was very impressed with an Innous Zen Mk 3. Any thoughts/experiences with Innuos?

I may add the dCS network bridge run on Mosaic, a software you are familiar with from your other dCS products. Mosaic was ok as a software. If I had the the dCS set up you have I would not look any further. There are still a few in stock here and there, although the model is dis-continued. You can probably pick up one in the 2nd hand market for an affordable price. 

I tried dCS network bridge for a couple of weeks. It is good. A lot of details. I however went another path and invested in a Theoretica Applied Physics Bacch SP- Adio. It is in addition to a streamer, a DAC and a preamp and a 3D sound processor. Goes without saying it outperformed the dCS solution with 50% maybe more.

Good luck! 

Hey guys,

As always, thanks for all the input! 
I guess providing a little more insight into my system and how I will use the “streamer” would help.

First of all, I have simplified my main system over the past year.  Got rid of a good analog set up (just didn’t use it) and now just have the dCS Puccini DAC & Master Clock connected to Esoteric CD Player (also connected to the Master Clock). I have about 800 CD’s.  Don’t use a server an am VERY COMPUTER ILLITERATE  when it comes to pairing up with computers and audio devices. 
 

I wanted to get a good streamer to experience new music. As mentioned, I think my DAC is good, so I don’t need a streamer with a dac. 
 

ghdprentice … Great choice, but I don’t want to quite invest $22,000 on a top end streamer for something that is not going to be used all the time.

raysmtb1 … could be interested. Send me a message with price & details.

mike -in-nc … dCS ‘used’ to make a network bridge (streamer) but it was discontinued and now tough to find on used market. I have heard of people not liking the Auralic software music management (Lightning?). Do you like it?
 

verdantaudio …. Excellent questions! The only other streamer I had tried a while ago was a Lumin T1. I liked the sound but found the Lumin music management not intuitive and clumsy to use. Roon sounds interesting but I have heard you must pair it to a pc. I have an older desktop pc but don’t want to interact with it at all … everything I do via computer is on my IPAD. 

Hope this helps …. 
David 

Consider a used Aurender N10.   I found mine used from a dealer for $4,500.  It's been a huge jump up in sound quality vs. the entry level streamers I used previously.  One word of caution... I recommend you have a hardwired ethernet connection to your modem, as I ran into frustrating compatibility issues attempting to use wireless bridges.  YMMV.

Lots of other options but software is a partial driver of your choice.  The interface you want to use matters and then picking the device with that interface is best approach.  I use Roon so I am almost universally focused on a server/player solution.  I think this sounds best and find having a server as a buffer vs a very volatile internet will outperform the best standalone streamers that I have heard.  

Do you have a server?  What service do you want to stream?  Have you used any software that you liked?

If you are looking for a Roon or UPnP end-point, the Bricasti M5 is very good.  The best output is AES and it is a unit that sells extremely well for Bricasti.  This is not a standalone streamer.  You aren't going to play Tidal or Qobuzon it without software that talks to the device on your network.  

Another alternative that is a bit more feature rich is the Chord 2Go/2Yu.  I have been using one of these to connect to a lot of DACs.  The USB and Coax outputs are excellent.  The biggest challenge I have is getting my head around this little 4" x 4" x1" unit is doing all it does.  It does have wireless built in but sounds better wired.

Lumin makes a U1 and U1 Mini.  I hear these are nice units that are quite stable.  This is a standalone "streamer" and does not require a server.  Lumin has their own software.

Both Auralic and Aurender I am sure also make devices that will meet your needs.  I do not know the exact models.  

IMO, the best solution would be to get something like a Bricasti M5 and pair it with a Roon Nucleus.  This would be under your budget even with a lifetime subscription to Roon and will deliver best performance for local files, Tidal and Qobuz.

I thought dCS had their own streamer, no? Apparently not.

I have tried a few, of which I thought the Bricasti M5 and the Auralic Aries G1 were very good. I tried both at home, couldn't hear a difference, and bought the Auralic. I like it very much.

The similar Auralic Aries G2.1 is more costly (their top of the line), but it's unclear that it's better when used with a non-Auralic DAC.

@raysmtb1 well played....you are keeping the Rose...

bluesound node

seriously, you might try some at home in your own system... 🤣

I have an extra Auraulic Altair g1 if you’re interested. There’s nothing wrong with it I got a different one for my birthday.

Sorry, the obvious solution is a Aurender W20se. This would be the obvious streamer to mate with your DAC, the most common at audio shows. If you own a dCS Paganini you are deluding yourself if you are thinking you can buy a $5K streamer and getting appropriate performance out of that DAC. I would not even consider anything except a W20SE. There may be a couple other high end streamers… I’m thinking Linn. But anything less would be crazy.

With the caliber of your equipment I would recommend posing the question to the community of audio aficionado dot com. The average system there is like yours. Ask an appropriate streamer for your system. You will get responses from folks with systems of the same caliber you have.